sin nature, dual nature or new nature?

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Jul 3, 2011
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#1
I do believe that we were born with a ''sin nature'', as in a natural instinct bent towards sin, but God has in our new birth given us a new nature. After salvation it is no longer ''natural'' for us to sin, it is against our nature. Now that we have been born again and receive the Spirit of God, we have also the nature of God with in us, and everything we are reviles sin, and wants to obey God. If your nature has not changed, then you probably have not been born again
 
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
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#2
I do believe that we were born with a ''sin nature'', as in a natural instinct bent towards sin, but God has in our new birth given us a new nature. After salvation it is no longer ''natural'' for us to sin, it is against our nature. Now that we have been born again and receive the Spirit of God, we have also the nature of God with in us, and everything we are reviles sin, and wants to obey God. If your nature has not changed, then you probably have not been born again
2nd Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#4
1 Peter 4:1-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Peter 4

1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[a] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Colossians 2
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[d] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore,[e] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
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#5
I do believe that we were born with a ''sin nature'', as in a natural instinct bent towards sin, but God has in our new birth given us a new nature. After salvation it is no longer ''natural'' for us to sin, it is against our nature. Now that we have been born again and receive the Spirit of God, we have also the nature of God with in us, and everything we are reviles sin, and wants to obey God. If your nature has not changed, then you probably have not been born again
You have made an indictment against every single believer that might have a problem with sin in their life and that is not just new believers but all believers. How do we know there is sin in our life? Answer, GOD'S LIGHT! The Holy Spirit convicts of sin through LIGHT!. Where does the light come from? Answer, GOD, who is LIGHT (1Jn 1:5) and from the entrance of His WORD (Ps 119:130). God has made us to be children of light through the new birth (Jn 12:36, 1Thes 5:5). We are to learn as children how to walk in the light (Eph 5:8). The more light we receive from God (Ps 36:9), who is the Father of lights (Jm 1:17), the more sin and darkness is revealed for us to be set apart from (Ps 8:28, 112:4, 1Pt 2:9).

There is a measure of sin in our life at this very moment, that we are not aware, until we have the light from God to reveal it and convict our hearts of it. God is covering those area of sin until He can deal with them through the light. We do not go around impulsively confessing our sin and faults to one another that we have no light or conviction of. Those that do are snared and in bondage to their own weaknesses of the flesh that is regulated by their own system of relevant righteousness. This involves a morality and goodness that has been embedded in their conscience by the norms and standards that have been placed there through religious concepts or through the world system in which they live and are subject to through bondage.

The light that comes from God, through the word and the Holy Spirit, does not condemn but convicts and reproves, especially those secret faults that we engage every once and awhile, that beset us and weigh us down because we have not layed them aside and put them away in our experience (Heb 12:1). The greater the fellowship that we have with God through the light (2Cor 6:14, 1Jn 1:7), the more sensitive we become to that which is contrary to the light. That includes any trends or motions of sins that are stirred up and made active through the stimulation or gratification of our flesh, either by the devil through the world system or by doctrines of demons or by the flesh of others.

The old sin nature has never been eradicated from the fleshly members of human body (Rom 7:5,23). We are still flesh and blood people (Mt 16:17, Gal 1:16) with appetites and desires for the things of the flesh. But we have a cross that we can take up, that has crucified those affections, lusts and desires of the flesh (Gal 5:24) and has crucified through death, the old sin nature so that we can go after the things of the Spirit (Rom 8:5). So when God's light comes and reveals those areas of sin and darkness in our life, we can respond to the light, receive grace and go on and put on the new man without yielding our members as instruments of unrighteousness through the flesh of the old man Adam (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10, Rom 6:13). So we put on the new and put off the old. We put on Christ and put off Adam, for in Adam all die but in Christ all are made alive (Rom 13:14, 1Cor 15:22). That's alot to think about but you have time.
 
C

CB

Guest
#6
Romans 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Romans 6:6 suggests that the body of sin has been DONE AWAY WITH
Galatians 5:24 seems to be saying that those who are Christ's HAVE (past tense) crucified the flesh
 
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FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#7
While it is true that each of us does indeed have a sin nature that can easily be aroused, once saved, the Holy Spirit comes comes to live in our hearts to lead us into the divine nature.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#8
Because I still have a flesh body the desires of the flesh still are strong within me. It is because of the Holy Spirits convicting that I am able to stay away from any of these sins of the flesh. But I am not able to stay away from all sin all the time. Maybe we are able to resist more and more sin as we persevere? I think I will go through life weak and constantly need the Lord to help me. Whenever I think I am strong I take a fall, and it hurts. So I guess the sin nature is still there because of the flesh and because the Holy Spirit guides us away from sin I guess there is a battle going on constantly. I wouldn't say it was a dual nature because I don't instinctively Not Sin, I choose to not sin. I wouldn't even be able to make this choice if not for Jesus. Thank You Jesus.

God Bless You
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#9
Because I still have a flesh body the desires of the flesh still are strong within me. It is because of the Holy Spirits convicting that I am able to stay away from any of these sins of the flesh. But I am not able to stay away from all sin all the time. Maybe we are able to resist more and more sin as we persevere? I think I will go through life weak and constantly need the Lord to help me. Whenever I think I am strong I take a fall, and it hurts. So I guess the sin nature is still there because of the flesh and because the Holy Spirit guides us away from sin I guess there is a battle going on constantly. I wouldn't say it was a dual nature because I don't instinctively Not Sin, I choose to not sin. I wouldn't even be able to make this choice if not for Jesus. Thank You Jesus.

God Bless You
hey Grandpa.
your new life sounds like mine.
it's wonderful not to be a slave to sin, though isn't it?
thank You Jesus.
zone.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10
Romans 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Romans 6:6 suggests that the body of sin has been DONE AWAY WITH
Galatians 5:24 seems to be saying that those who are Christ's HAVE (past tense) crucified the flesh
Romans 7

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.


Notice Paul is speaking present tense here. He is nto talking about his past life before he came to Christ, or he would have used past tense verbs. To tell anyone they will never struggle with sin after they are saved is wrong. Paul said clearly there are two natures within all of us who are saved. The new creation, or new nature in God, and the onld one which is the flesh and they fight on a daily basis. As we mature in Christ the flesh is weakened and the spirit is strengthened. But we will not be rid of the flesh until we are ressurected to new bodies. Until then. to say someone who is even a mature christian can not fall under temptation is just dangerous. For even paul here. a mature Christian, said he strugglesd with sin as it made a war in his body in his body. As paul said in another area. Our spirit is made alive in Christ. Our flesh however is still dead because of sin.
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
#11
There is a measure of sin in our life at this very moment, that we are not aware, until we have the light from God to reveal it and convict our hearts of it. God is covering those area of sin until He can deal with them through the light. We do not go around impulsively confessing our sin and faults to one another that we have no light or conviction of. Those that do are snared and in bondage to their own weaknesses of the flesh that is regulated by their own system of relevant righteousness. This involves a morality and goodness that has been embedded in their conscience by the norms and standards that have been placed there through religious concepts or through the world system in which they live and are subject to through bondage. Amen..
There is a measure of sin in our life at this very moment, that we are not aware, until we have the light from God to reveal it and convict our hearts of it. God is covering those area of sin until He can deal with them through the light. We do not go around impulsively confessing our sin and faults to one another that we have no light or conviction of. Those that do are snared and in bondage to their own weaknesses of the flesh that is regulated by their own system of relevant righteousness. This involves a morality and goodness that has been embedded in their conscience by the norms and standards that have been placed there through religious concepts or through the world system in which they live and are subject to through bondage. Thank you Jesus!
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#12
I have a scripture to quote..
*Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him;and he cannot sin,because he is born of God*..

May God give us understanding of his word.. Amen :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
I have a scripture to quote..
*Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him;and he cannot sin,because he is born of God*..

May God give us understanding of his word.. Amen :)

before you quote a verse you should study it to see if what you read is really what it is saying.

Also. If one would use logic, they would see what is really being said. and would not make such a grave mistake.

1. Whoever sins (active present_ has never seen God. This means a new born believer who is saved and commits a sin has never known God. This is not true. So we can not interpret this verse as saying anyone who commits any sin has never known God. for if this is true. the moment we were saved we would be sinless. I only know of a few sad souls who believe this.

2. Whoever abides (present tense active) in Christ does not sin. John is making a distinction here between those who are actively abiding, or following Christ. vs those who are actively (at a particular moment) following the flesh. We must not ignore this important verb. The prodigal son was not abiding with his father. But he never stopped being the fathers son. And to say he never knew the father would be an error in judgment.

3. We must note the different tense of verbs used. Abide is present tense. Or a moment of time thing. Where as never seen or known him is in the perfect tense. which means it has been a state which has been in the past and continues today. this is important for a few reasons.

1. Abide (present tense) not sin (present tense) means we do not look at past or future sins or how the person acted. It is a moment of time thing. If you are not sinning right now. you are abiding in Christ.

2. Known him or seen him is perfect tense. It means that we must look at past actions to determine who these people are. ASince the verb is perfect tense. the action we look at would also be past to present. In other words. a person who continues to live in sin (has shown no change in life) has never known (even now) or seen (even now) him.


if we would actually study Gods word. and not just read one sentence and assume we know what it means. we would not make such grave mistakes in interpretation.
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#14

before you quote a verse you should study it to see if what you read is really what it is saying.

Also. If one would use logic, they would see what is really being said. and would not make such a grave mistake.

1. Whoever sins (active present_ has never seen God. This means a new born believer who is saved and commits a sin has never known God. This is not true. So we can not interpret this verse as saying anyone who commits any sin has never known God. for if this is true. the moment we were saved we would be sinless. I only know of a few sad souls who believe this.

2. Whoever abides (present tense active) in Christ does not sin. John is making a distinction here between those who are actively abiding, or following Christ. vs those who are actively (at a particular moment) following the flesh. We must not ignore this important verb. The prodigal son was not abiding with his father. But he never stopped being the fathers son. And to say he never knew the father would be an error in judgment.

3. We must note the different tense of verbs used. Abide is present tense. Or a moment of time thing. Where as never seen or known him is in the perfect tense. which means it has been a state which has been in the past and continues today. this is important for a few reasons.

1. Abide (present tense) not sin (present tense) means we do not look at past or future sins or how the person acted. It is a moment of time thing. If you are not sinning right now. you are abiding in Christ.

2. Known him or seen him is perfect tense. It means that we must look at past actions to determine who these people are. ASince the verb is perfect tense. the action we look at would also be past to present. In other words. a person who continues to live in sin (has shown no change in life) has never known (even now) or seen (even now) him.


if we would actually study Gods word. and not just read one sentence and assume we know what it means. we would not make such grave mistakes in interpretation.
Hello, nice post here. But just who is talking about all these you post???.. My point in posting that scripture was that if we are now in Christ, we are not longer subject to sin and we now no longer have the sinful nature, since it already died with Christ and we have been resurrected in the newness of Spirit... Making us no more subject to our sins or fleshy lusts (Rom 6)

Moral Lesson- We have a new nature (sinless nature), NOT dual nature.. Isn't that the title of this thread???
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
Hello, nice post here. But just who is talking about all these you post???.. My point in posting that scripture was that if we are now in Christ, we are not longer subject to sin and we now no longer have the sinful nature, since it already died with Christ and we have been resurrected in the newness of Spirit... Making us no more subject to our sins or fleshy lusts (Rom 6)

Moral Lesson- We have a new nature (sinless nature), NOT dual nature.. Isn't that the title of this thread???
The point is if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and truth is not in us. Yes we have a new nature./ Yes we have the power given by God to overcome sin. But to say we will have victory every every temptation from now until the day we die is not scriptural.

The topic of this thread is the old nature completely removed, Or is it still present where it can tempt us (dual nature) The answer is it is still there. To say it is not is to place ourselves in f=danger of thinking we can never sin. which is just not scriptural>
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#16
The point is if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and truth is not in us. Yes we have a new nature./ Yes we have the power given by God to overcome sin. But to say we will have victory every every temptation from now until the day we die is not scriptural.

The topic of this thread is the old nature completely removed, Or is it still present where it can tempt us (dual nature) The answer is it is still there. To say it is not is to place ourselves in f=danger of thinking we can never sin. which is just not scriptural>
If we can't overcome every sin till we die, Why does the bible say God always provide a way for us to overcome every sin?. Plz i do not intend to argue over this topic.. If you do not believe in living a holy life,FINE :)
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#17
I do believe that we were born with a ''sin nature'', as in a natural instinct bent towards sin, but God has in our new birth given us a new nature. After salvation it is no longer ''natural'' for us to sin, it is against our nature. Now that we have been born again and receive the Spirit of God, we have also the nature of God with in us, and everything we are reviles sin, and wants to obey God. If your nature has not changed, then you probably have not been born again
Born with a nature to sin has been argued since the beginning of man; Adam and Eve. In the text you give testimony I'd have to agree with you. In the latter part of your witness, is it given from experience? Do you actually live a life that you do not have to pray and ask to be forgiven? To suggest that those who sin after they hear the Word of God, repent and begin to follow in Christ's teachings; are not saved, is an awful thing to say to a person in the beginnings of his or her walk of faith no matter how old they are. There are far too many places in the New Testament, and the Old Testament, that teach us that we are sinners saved by grace. In Two places of the New Testament is the language of the Lord's prayer, which not only indicates that we should consider this prayer on a daily basis; more specifically are the words; "forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."

In the Last part of the Book of John, Jesus clearly indicated that when we are born of the Spirit (the second gift) "Another will clothe you and TAKE YOU WHERE YOU DO NOT WISH TO GO."

The Spirit has moved me into the streets to search out those who you have turned away out of ignorance. You have no idea how much damage you do by saying you have no need to ask to be forgiven.

I share this with you because I too thought the same way because I was told it is true that if we sin, we are not saved. But when I continued to ask to be forgiven, I did not trust those who teach that way..,I went straight to the Truth and Truth set me free. I say the Lord's prayer daily. Not because I want to appear better than others, as if to exclude them. I say that prayer daily because Jesus gave it to me out of His mercy.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
If we can't overcome every sin till we die, Why does the bible say God always provide a way for us to overcome every sin?. Plz i do not intend to argue over this topic.. If you do not believe in living a holy life,FINE :)
I do not wish to argue either.

I do believe in living a holy life. I reject that fact that anyone can, there is a difference. Doing our best to do this. and succeeding are two different things. Paul stated he never succeeded. why would i think I am better than Paul?

yes God gives us a way out. But as scripture makes c;lear, man does not always chose this way out. Jon makes it clear that if we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves. So forgive me if I refuse to say I am, or can be without sin.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#19
If we can't overcome every sin till we die, Why does the bible say God always provide a way for us to overcome every sin?. Plz i do not intend to argue over this topic.. If you do not believe in living a holy life,FINE :)
Good question? The answer is we can overcome sin. If we couldnt then that would make Jesus, Paul, John, James, Peter all liars.
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#20
Good question? The answer is we can overcome sin. If we couldnt then that would make Jesus, Paul, John, James, Peter all liars.
Saying that an Apostle is a liar if certain things are not true is a cheap shot that lacks discretion. King David was loved by God, even though he committed adultery, and deceived, and committed murder of the true husband of the one he committed adultery with. God did not make a mistake then and He does not make a mistake now. Today it is understood that our salvation is not an opportunity to commit sin; and every choice we were used to making according to the things that seemed right to us is sin. Everything we do today according to the things that seem right to us is sin, according to the ways of flesh. The only way to know these things is a growing process; line by measured line. There are two parts to who we are. flesh and spirit. In the Old Testament there is prophecy which is still in effect which states, Fasten the donkey to the vine and the foal of the donkey to the Choice Vine. In the Old Testament Law states to sacrifice a lamb to redeem the foal of the donkey, Jesus fulfilled both. In one He asked for the foal of a donkey upon which not man has ridden (taught in the seat of authority). Jesus then rode the foal into Jerusalem and gave His life. This is the fulfillment of Law. IN another parable language Jesus asked for "them" and He rode them into Jerusalem and gave His life. That is the fulfillment of prophecy. Both pertain to you. If you understand creation language, which was taught to me by the Spirit, you would come to understand the meaning of the obedience of God's people. Rather than tearing someone apart who you believe is a stranger to God's temple, you might consider giving witness with hope, as hope is found in a fisherman.