The Noahide Laws

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would you take the Noahide Oath?

  • yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • no

    Votes: 14 100.0%

  • Total voters
    14

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
diversionary posts on freemasons and scofield and nazis and IBM and rothschilds and netanyahu and socialists and the bush family and 9/11 and anything else that isn't about the talmud itself.
freemasons
scofield
nazis and IBM
rothschilds
netanyahu
socialists
9/11

ALL trace back to MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT.
you figure out what/where she is.

WHO DID 9-11?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
'Gentile sperm leads to barbaric offspring'


Rabbi Dov Lior says Jewish Law prohibits sterile couples from conceiving using non-Jew's sperm, as it causes adverse traits. On subject of single mothers he says, 'Child cannot be 100% normal'

Rabbi Dov Lior, a senior authority on Jewish law in the Religious Zionism movement, asserted recently that a Jewish woman should never get pregnant using sperm donated by a non-Jewish man – even if it is the last option available.

According to Lior, a baby born through such an insemination will have the "negative genetic traits that characterize non-Jews." Instead, he advised sterile couples to adopt.

Lior addressed the issue during a women's health conference held recently at the Puah Institute, a fertility clinic. His conservative stance negated a ruling widely accepted by rabbis, which states that sperm donated by a non-Jew is preferable to that of an anonymous Jew, who might pose a genealogical risk.

"Sefer HaChinuch (a book of Jewish law) states that the character traits of the father pass on to the son," he said in the lecture. "If the father in not Jewish, what character traits could he have? Traits of cruelty, of barbarism! These are not traits that characterize the people of Israel."

Lior added identified Jews as merciful, shy and charitable – qualities that he claimed could be inherited. "A person born to Jewish parents, even if they weren't raised on the Torah – there are things that are passed on (to him) in the blood, it's genetic," he explained. "If the father is a gentile, then the child is deprived of these things.

"I even read in books that sometimes the crime, the difficult traits, the bitterness – a child that comes from these traits, it's no surprise that he won't have the qualities that characterize the people of Israel," he added.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4006385,00.html

from: YNet News

~

Rally held for rabbis suspected of incitement

Religious leaders gather to support rabbis who endorsed book permitting violence against non-Jews Kobi Nahshoni Published: 08.19.10, 00:12 / Israel News

Dozens of rabbis, educators, public figures and right-wing activists attended on Wednesday a support rally for Rabbis Dov Lior and Yaakov Yosef, who refused to report for police questioning over their endorsement of the controversial book "Torat Hamelech," which relates a halachic perspective on violence against non-Jews.

The two, along with other rabbis and the author of the book, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, are being investigated on suspicion of incitement.

Senior rabbis from different Religious-Zionist camps attended the event, which turned into a demonstration of rare unity among Religious-Zionist leadership.

The rally was moderated by Rabbi Yehoshua Shapira, head of Ramat Gan's Hesder Yeshiva and brother of the book's author.

Shapira opened the event by reading a severely-worded letter written by Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, about the duty of struggling for independence of the rabbinate and against the interference of the state in the rabbis' work.



Rabbis' support rally in Jerusalem (Photo: Guy Asayag)

Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira and Rabbi Ginzburg, who gave his consent to publish the book, did not attend the rally in order to draw more participants, including those who opposed the book.

Rabbi Dov Lior made his first public statement since defying the police summons, explaining, "The rabbis are the elected representatives, who were chosen to speak of the Torah. They must speak the halacha without fearing anything."

Rabbi Yaakov Yosef said he regrets not anchoring the rabbis' rights in the law while serving as a member of Knesset on behalf of Shas.

Rabbi Yosef blamed the affair on those who "wish to blur the Jewish identity of the State and separate religion and state, like in America."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3939519,00.html


THE TALMUD AND THE NOAHIDE LAWS ARE HARMLESS?

i'm defying "LAW" by even posting this.
you will SHUT UP.
the truth is NO DEFENSE.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I agree. If one looks at the history of the world since jacob's name was changed to Israel. There has not been a more hated group of people., The fact that they are still living as a people group, even though scattered throughout the Earth should be mind boggling. And prove God has still kept his covenant with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

These conspiracty theories just amaze me! That the same world that hates these people. would give any credance to anything they have to say.
Jesus Christ: The True Israel

If we stand within the field of prophetic vision typical of Israel’s prophets after the exile and captivity, and with them we look to the future, what do we see? Israel’s prophets clearly anticipate a time when Israel will be restored to its former greatness. But will that restoration of the nation of Israel to its former glory mirror the days of the monarchy? Or does the monarchy itself point us to the monarch?

Such a prophetic vision includes not only the nation, but the land of Canaan, the city of Jerusalem, the throne of David, as well as the temple in Jerusalem. Since the nation had been divided and the people were hauled off into captivity in Babylon some five centuries before the coming of Jesus, the magnificent temple destroyed and the priesthood gone, such prophetic expectation related to Israel’s future quite naturally spoke of a reversal of fortune and the undoing of calamity which had come upon the nation.

But with apostolic hindsight Peter speaks of how “concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.” (1 Peter 1:10-12).

In Isaiah 41:8-9, the prophet spoke of a future restoration of Israel in these terms. “But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, `You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.'” The same promise is reiterated in the next chapter of Isaiah (42:1-7), when the LORD declares of his servant, “I am the Lord; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations”( v. 6). Isaiah continues to speak of this servant in chapters 44 (vv. 1-2) and 45 (v. 4).

Dispensationalists, given their so-called "literal hermeneutic," are bound to interpret such passages literally, thereby assign the fulfillment of these prophecies of Isaiah to a future earthly millennium in which Israel co-exists with Gentiles under the reign of the Davidic king (See Walvoord, The Millennial Kingdom, 302-304; and Pentecost, Things to Come, 503-508). In effect, this amounts to the restoration of the monarchy as Jesus takes his place on David's royal throne and rules the nations from this restored Israel.

But is this how the New Testament interprets these messianic prophecies regarding the servant of the Lord? Who is this servant of the Lord? It is the nation of Israel, or is it Jesus, Israel’s Messiah?

In order to answer this questions, we must see that the gospel writers interpret these prophecies from Isaiah as fulfilled in the messianic mission of Jesus. First, in Matthew 12:15-21, for example, when Jesus withdrew from the crowds who had followed him, Matthew reports that this event fulfilled what had been spoken in Isaiah the prophet. This event serves to demonstrate that Jesus is the true servant of the Lord.

Second, as Jesus cast out demons and healed the sick, Matthew saw in this the fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecies of a suffering servant who would take upon himself our infirmities and carry our diseases (Matthew 8:17 with Isaiah 53:4).

Third, in Luke’s gospel, Luke speaks of both Israel (cf. Luke 1:54) and David as the servant of God (Luke 1:69). Yet in Acts, Luke pointedly speaks of Jesus as the servant of God (Acts 3:13). After his crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead so that people everywhere might be called to repentance (3:26).

Fourth, when the Ethiopian eunuch hears a reading from Isaiah 53:7-8 and asks Philip about whom this prophecy refers, Luke tells us that Philip informed the Ethiopian that this passage does indeed refer to Jesus (Acts 8:34-35).

But this is not all that is in view here. In Hosea 11:1, Hosea predicted a time when “Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.” But in Matthew 2:15, the evangelist tells us that Hosea’s prophecy was fulfilled when his parents took Jesus to Egypt to protect him from Herod’s “slaughter of the innocents” (Matthew 2:3-18). Yet, after Herod had died, God called Jesus and his family to return to Nazareth. Matthew takes a passage from Hosea, which clearly refers to Israel, and tells his reader that this passage is now fulfilled in Jesus Christ! He does this to prove to his largely Jewish audience that Jesus is the servant of the Lord, foretold throughout the Old Testament (especially Isaiah).

By now it should be clear that according to many New Testament writers, Jesus is the true servant, the true son and the true Israel of God. Recall too that it was Isaiah who spoke of Israel and the descendants of Abraham as the people of God. It as through the seed of Abraham that the nations of the earth would be blessed.

Therefore, even as Jesus is the true Israel, he is the true seed of Abraham. This is the point that Paul is making in Galatians 3:7-8, when he says “know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, `In you shall all the nations be blessed.'”

Paul’s words here, are important for several reasons. First, Paul tells us that Abraham believed the very same gospel that he preached to the Gentile Galatians. There has only been one plan of salvation and one gospel from the very beginning. This, of course, raises very serious questions about the dispensational notion of “clearly distinct” redemptive purposes for national Israel and the Gentiles, as is evident when Paul goes on to say in Galatians 3:29, that “if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.”

Second, the one gospel promise from the very beginning of redemptive history is that the true children of Abraham, whether they be Jew or Gentile, are heirs of the promise, if they belong to Jesus Christ, the true seed of Abraham. But as Robert Strimple points out, an important word of clarification is certainly in order. “We [amillennarians] say: `Yes, the nation of Israel was the people of God in the old covenant. Now in the new covenant the believing church is the people of God.’ And thus we quickly run past (or we miss the blessed point entirely) the fact that we Christians are the Israel of God, Abraham’s seed, and the heirs to the promises, only because by faith, we are united to him who alone is the true Israel, Abraham’s one seed.” (See Strimple, “Amillennialism,” in Bock, ed., Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond, 89).

The ramifications for this upon one’s millennial view should now be obvious. If Jesus is the true Israel of God, and if the New Testament writers apply to Jesus those Old Testament prophecies referring to Israel as God’s son or servant, then what remains of the dispensationalist’s case that these prophecies remain yet to be fulfilled in a future millennium? They vanish in Jesus Christ, who has fulfilled them!

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/the-latest-post/2008/4/1/amillennialism-101-jesus-christ-the-true-israel.html
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I agree. If one looks at the history of the world since jacob's name was changed to Israel. There has not been a more hated group of people., The fact that they are still living as a people group, even though scattered throughout the Earth should be mind boggling. And prove God has still kept his covenant with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

These conspiracty theories just amaze me! That the same world that hates these people. would give any credance to anything they have to say.
that Covenant found its fulfillment in The True Israel JESUS CHRIST and in His church (jew & gentile).


First, Christ is the true Israel of God.

In explaining God’s promise to Abraham in Genesis 22:17-18, the apostle Paul says that “in [Abraham's] offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” And who is Abraham’s “offspring”? Paul says in Galatians 3:16 that since the text uses the singular, “offspring,” it is referring to Christ. Christ is the Israel of God, Abraham’s Offspring.

Thus, Matthew interprets all of the life of Jesus, from birth to death, as the ultimate fulfillment of the history of Israel as a nation.

click to site for easy chart> Old Testament , Matthew > http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/?p=5

Pharaoh sought to kill the baby who was to become mediator of the old covenant.Herod sought to kill the baby who was to become mediator of the new covenant.Israel crossed the sea, called a “baptism” by Paul in 1 Cor 10:1-2.Jesus went into the river to be baptized (Mat 3:13.The cloud, the Spirit of God, hovered over the Israelites in their journey (Exo 40:38).The Spirit hovered over Jesus at his baptism (Mat 3:16).Israel was tempted in the wilderness for 40 years (Num 32:13).Jesus was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days (Mat 4:1).Moses read the old covenant to Israel at Mount Sinai (Exo 19:2-3).Jesus explained life in the new covenant on a mountain (Mat 5:1).Isaiah ascribes God’s chosen “Servant” in whom he delights to Israel (Isa 42:1, 44:1).Matthew ascribes Isaiah’s “Servant” to Jesus (Mat 12:18; cf Mat 3:17).Isaiah’s “Servant” “has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows” (Isa 53:4).Jesus “took our illnesses and bore our diseases” (Mat 8:17)


Second, the Church is the true Israel of God.



Paul shows in his epistles that from the beginning, God already intended to include in his covenant not only Abraham’s blood descendants, but also Abraham’s faith descendants. Those who are in Christ, namely believers from “all the nations,” are the true children of Abraham (Gal 3:7-9, 29; Rom. 9:6-8). It is not only those who have the external, physical sign of circumcision, but those who have the inward circumcision of the heart by the Spirit of Christ who belong to Israel (Rom 2:28-29; Phil 3:3).
Therefore, since Jesus is the true Israel of God, all those who are united to him by faith are also counted as the true Israel of God (Gal 6:16).

If God’s blessings are given only to Abraham and all people like him who have faith in Christ, what then of those who do not have this same faith? One of the ways in which Jesus pictures Judgment Day is the Son of Man meting out blessings and curses to everyone based on their treatment of God’s people. On that last day, he will say to the sheep, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom… [because] as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.” But to the goats, he will say, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire… [because] as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me” (Mat 25:31-46). Why is this a basis for judgment? Because love for the brethren is one of the marks of a true believer (1 John 3:14).
The fruit of faith in a true believer is not lobbying the White House to support Israel and bomb Iran, but loving the brethren – the Israel of God – whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Thus, blessings and curses are pronounced by God on people based on how they treated believers, not on how they handled national Israel.

Third, Canaan, the Promised Land, was only a type of the New Heaven and New Earth.

God not only promised innumerable children and many nations to Abraham; he also promised land to him and his descendants (Gen 17:8). And all that God promised to the Israelites in terms of real estate were given to them, as Joshua 21:43-45 says,
“Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers… Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.”
Hebrews chapter 11 points out that Abraham knew that Canaan was not the final Promised Land where he would settle. Why? Because “he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God” (Heb 11:9-10). Abraham knew that God’s promised land extended far beyond what he could see. Our Old Testament heroes of the faith “all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth” (Heb 11:13). No earthly promise of blessing to Israel remains unfulfilled.

How then could dispensationalists say that the land of Canaan belongs to Israel forever, when even Abraham, the first Israelite, did not acknowledge the land as his permanent dwelling place? All the heroes of our faith “did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us” (Heb 11:13-16, 39-40). Could that “something better” be the land of Canaan in the millennium? Absolutely not! “They desire[d] a better country, that is, a heavenly one” (Heb 11:16). In the same way, all of us in Christ throughout the ages are not to get excited about a millennial, earthly Jerusalem, but are to wait for an eternal “new heavens and a new earth” (2 Pet 3:13).

http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/?p=5
 
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Abiding

Guest


Every thread should have a "so what" part. What i mean is outside two opinions there
has to be an outcome for each side. A proper world view would be necessary to have a
proper response in life. If there is strong differences in any arguement there should have
to be serious ramifications to each view being argued. Or else its really not worth the bother.

I like to cut to the ramification part at times to see if the whole arguement is worth the study
to understand. Forums are good to have facts and sources...but they also work great to
express the ramifications a person sees and how it matters to them in their heart and lifes.
The more intense the view the more personal reasons for the "so what" could be shared.

For instance raising kids telling them what to do and how to act...seems easier if you can explain
how it will effect their future...maybe with some examples of personal experience. Otherwise
there is no incentive to want to listen. I think forums are the same. And that more time should
be spent on the reason a view is important than on proving the view. In otherwords the motive.
Without understanding a persons motive it seems to leave folks in a position to judge, or
presume. Then it turns personal....and the topic becomes a arena for war...therefore cursing
the topic....which is a "wile" used to disenchant many to the truth.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63


Every thread should have a "so what" part. What i mean is outside two opinions there
has to be an outcome for each side. A proper world view would be necessary to have a
proper response in life. If there is strong differences in any arguement there should have
to be serious ramifications to each view being argued. Or else its really not worth the bother.

I like to cut to the ramification part at times to see if the whole arguement is worth the study
to understand. Forums are good to have facts and sources...but they also work great to
express the ramifications a person sees and how it matters to them in their heart and lifes.
The more intense the view the more personal reasons for the "so what" could be shared.

For instance raising kids telling them what to do and how to act...seems easier if you can explain
how it will effect their future...maybe with some examples of personal experience. Otherwise
there is no incentive to want to listen. I think forums are the same. And that more time should
be spent on the reason a view is important than on proving the view. In otherwords the motive.
Without understanding a persons motive it seems to leave folks in a position to judge, or
presume. Then it turns personal....and the topic becomes a arena for war...therefore cursing
the topic....which is a "wile" used to disenchant many to the truth.
if you mean my motives abiding, i've expressed them repeatedly.
what is THE TRUTH?

but just because i say that, if the first line of defense against trutt and history are absurd charges of hatred is anyone likely to believe me?

re: practical applications:

raising kids to curse Jesus and believe in a 'chosen-ness' by flesh that's only fulfilled in Him leads to damnation.
conclusion: help people stop doing that.

believing in dispensational theology leads to focusing on/supporting spiritually the state of israel, who is believing falsely in "chosen-ness"by flesh, which leads to damnation.
conclusion: stop doing that.

to end the ridiculous exchange of antisemitism/gentiles hate us; answer the simple question:
is one a jew by race (no. that's obvious), or by religion (yes, that's obvious).
conclusion: stop making it about race, find out about the religion.

to end the debate about whether Judaism today has anything to do with Moses, find out what it is.
conclusion: puts and end to confusion over the above 3.

reality:
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THAT EASILY. we need to study history and understand reality.
but the system we face is opposed to the truth and buries history.

disclaimer:
some of my best friends are jews
i don't hate jews

(do you think that will help abiding?)
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
My personal view only, is this.

The whole world lies in darkness. The reason for this has nothing to do with the Lies told by man or satan.
The Lord will have mercy on whom He desires. And will harden men or give them over to a delusion not
for believing the lie....but for rejecting the truth. Therefore lies have a purpose.

My belief so far is that the whole world has the gospel and when they reject the truth they will hang onto
the lie. Whether its in the US or Israel or elsewhere. I realize it sounds like im just being an optimist, but to
tell the truth must include....not one will be plucked out of my hand...as well as a call to preach the gospel
to all men.

Whether or not people can see the end of this age coming fast...His people feel it. I understand that there
is a chance they can be effected by a wrong theology. But i really cant see it having any eternal consequences.
Most of the wheat have been busy with their lives while the tares have been doing the supporting of the
delusional set-up for the end times scenario which must come to pass. Therefore the wheat does need to
be informed with biblical doctrine...but the tares will never listen...ever.

Zone im only yacking on this to make use of the personal side of the forums. Hopefully to add color to your work
and the thread. Not to critique it but to try to add some "so what" to it.

I can say this about the opposition....they oppose it theologically...and emotionally. And i think they are correct in
their response due to their incorrect theology. And they will oppose it until their theology changes. I understand you
know this. And im sure you dont need my help to see things as they are. But im not sure what your thoughts on this are.

To me it seems that the bad theology is in these areas:

1. "Why did God call Abraham?" ......to say to give him some land is just a joke! (my opinion)
2. Jewcentic or landcentric or anything other than a NT Christcentric focus skews your hermeneutics.
3. That the majority view is the safest one. Especially if you dont really know what the majority view really is.
4. Covenants. And how they evolved rather than as completely distinct in themselves.
5. What "ages" means
6. Romans 10-11...
7. times of the gentiles...and fullness of the gentiles.
8. True understanding of terms...such as jew...Israel.
9. Many more.....those were just first thoughts.

Until most of those are cleared up these type of threads will just be received as hating Israel, hating Jews, since
that would simply be expected with bad theology...right? Since if.....as they have been taught these are Gods special
people and they were predicted to come back to the land(landcentric hermeneutics) than surely they will be hated,
and since we dont like to be hated as christians....well then we should stand up for them....to get the Abrahamic blessing
side note: I like to say if we are getting a Abrahamic blessing for supporting Israel...we need to stop our support.
We cant afford many more of these blessings as one would notice.

Ok ill quit working off this caffene for now. :)
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
My personal view only, is this.

The whole world lies in darkness. The reason for this has nothing to do with the Lies told by man or satan.
The Lord will have mercy on whom He desires. And will harden men or give them over to a delusion not
for believing the lie....but for rejecting the truth. Therefore lies have a purpose.

My belief so far is that the whole world has the gospel and when they reject the truth they will hang onto
the lie. Whether its in the US or Israel or elsewhere. I realize it sounds like im just being an optimist, but to
tell the truth must include....not one will be plucked out of my hand...as well as a call to preach the gospel
to all men.

Whether or not people can see the end of this age coming fast...His people feel it. I understand that there
is a chance they can be effected by a wrong theology. But i really cant see it having any eternal consequences.
Most of the wheat have been busy with their lives while the tares have been doing the supporting of the
delusional set-up for the end times scenario which must come to pass. Therefore the wheat does need to
be informed with biblical doctrine...but the tares will never listen...ever.

Zone im only yacking on this to make use of the personal side of the forums. Hopefully to add color to your work
and the thread. Not to critique it but to try to add some "so what" to it.

I can say this about the opposition....they oppose it theologically...and emotionally. And i think they are correct in
their response due to their incorrect theology. And they will oppose it until their theology changes. I understand you
know this. And im sure you dont need my help to see things as they are. But im not sure what your thoughts on this are.

To me it seems that the bad theology is in these areas:

1. "Why did God call Abraham?" ......to say to give him some land is just a joke! (my opinion)
2. Jewcentic or landcentric or anything other than a NT Christcentric focus skews your hermeneutics.
3. That the majority view is the safest one. Especially if you dont really know what the majority view really is.
4. Covenants. And how they evolved rather than as completely distinct in themselves.
5. What "ages" means
6. Romans 10-11...
7. times of the gentiles...and fullness of the gentiles.
8. True understanding of terms...such as jew...Israel.
9. Many more.....those were just first thoughts.

Until most of those are cleared up these type of threads will just be received as hating Israel, hating Jews, since
that would simply be expected with bad theology...right? Since if.....as they have been taught these are Gods special
people and they were predicted to come back to the land(landcentric hermeneutics) than surely they will be hated,
and since we dont like to be hated as christians....well then we should stand up for them....to get the Abrahamic blessing
side note: I like to say if we are getting a Abrahamic blessing for supporting Israel...we need to stop our support.
We cant afford many more of these blessings as one would notice.

Ok ill quit working off this caffene for now. :)
wow mikey
that's a good post.
pretty much sums it.
i guess i do get frustrated cuz i see the inter-relationedness of the whole thing being about doctrines (for us Christians), too.

reckon i'm just tryin' to SNIP the connections (your 9 are good examples).




plus i got this ubercool toolbox and i'm itchin' to use it.
 
G

Good-Ground

Guest
Thanks for posting this Zone. I've never heard of Noahide laws before this thread and it took courage to post it. I try to remain teachable.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Thanks for posting this Zone. I've never heard of Noahide laws before this thread and it took courage to post it. I try to remain teachable.
you're welcome GoodGround.
thank you for the encouragment. not a 'fun' topic, but it should be considered at some point.
Abiding made a good balanced post a few back.

here's an easy intro:

Hoffman's Judaism Slideshow PREVIEW
Hoffman's Judaism Slideshow PREVIEW - YouTube
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Shabbetai Zvi

(1626-1676)


Shabbetai Zvi was born in Smyrna in 1626, he showed early promise as a Talmudic scholar, and even more as a student and devotee of Kabbalah. More pronounced than his scholarship were his strange mystical speculations and religious ecstasies. He traveled to various cities, his strong personality and his alternately ascetic and self-indulgent behavior attracting and repelling rabbis and populace alike. He was expelled from Salonica by its rabbis for having staged a wedding service with himself as bridegroom and the Torah as bride. His erratic behavior continued. For long periods, he was a respected student and teacher of Kabbalah; at other times, he was given to messianic fantasies and bizarre acts. At one point, living in Jerusalem seeking "peace for his soul," he sought out a self-proclaimed "man of God," Nathan of Gaza, who declared Shabbetai Zvi to be the Messiah. Then Shabbetai Zvi began to act the part, as Gershom Scholem describes:
Riding around on horseback in majestic state [he] summoned a group of his followers, appointing them as apostles or representatives of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. The messianic news spread like wildfire to other communities in Palestine ... First reports about Shabbetai Zvi reached Europe early in October 16,65 ... detailed accounts, deeply involved with legendary material, arrived in Italy, Holland, Germany and Poland.
Messianic fervor took hold of communities that had no immediate experience of persecution and bloodshed as well as those which had.... Repentance alternating with public manifestations of joy and enthusiasm was the order of the day.
From many places delegations left bearing parchments signed by the leaders of the community which acknowledged him as the Messiah and king of Israel.
Not only did Shabbetai Zvi gain militant adherents in his native Turkey and in the Near East, but even in such cosmopolitan European cities as Venice, Livorno, and Amsterdam leading rabbis and sophisticated men of affairs were caught up in the messianic frenzy.

On September 15, 1666, Shabbetai Zvi, brought before the Sultan and given the choice of death or apostasy, prudently chose the latter, setting a turban on his head to signify his conversion to Islam, for which he was rewarded with the honorary title "Keeper of the Palace Gates" and a pension of 150 piasters a day.

The apostasy shocked the Jewish world. Leaders and followers alike refused to believe it. Many continued to anticipate a second coming, and faith in false messiahs continued through the eighteenth century. In the vast majority of believers, revulsion and remorse set in and there was an active endeavor to erase all evidence, even mention of the pseudo-Messiah. Pages were removed from communal registers, and documents were destroyed. Few copies of the books that celebrated Shabbetai Zvi survived, and those that did have become rarities much sought after by libraries and collectors.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Zvi.html
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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List of Freemasons
This is a list of notable Freemasons

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk National hero and founder of the modern Republic of Turkey. Macedonia Risorta Lodge No. 80 (some claim Lodge Veritas), Thessaloniki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons


Dönmeh
Dönmeh (Turkish: dönme) refers to a group of crypto-Jews in the Ottoman Empire and present-day Turkey who openly affiliated with Islam and secretly practiced a form of Judaism called Sabbateanism. The group originated during and soon after the era of Sabbatai Zevi, a 17th-century Jewish kabbalist who claimed to be the Messiah and was eventually forced by the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV to become a Muslim. After Zevi's conversion, a number of Jews followed him into Islam and became the Dönmeh. Since the 20th century, many Dönmeh have intermarried with other groups and most have assimilated into Turkish society. Although a few still consider themselves Jews, the Dönmeh are not officially recognized as such by Jewish authorities.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doenmeh
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
402
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Zone look @this please..
They already twisting the alleged guilt against Christians. So the atrocity prevention board and preemptive counter-measures against us may follow shortly. They have the media, hollywood and all the stars behind them that another holocaust,which in fact never happen, as forcedly taught from elementary school with books like "night" from ellie wiesel, will never happen again. Than it may happen that if you would be asked if you are one of these friends from Jesus of Galilee that you would reject him cause of the fear of the jews.
All they need is a false flag event to blame it on Christian.This may happen before next purim..

Home > Government and Religion > Weinstein Predicts Holocaust, Goes After Presidential Candidates
Weinstein Predicts Holocaust, Goes After Presidential Candidates

26 October 2011 Leave a comment Go to comments
Michael Weinstein recently highlighted an article by ally Bruce Wilson entitled “Rick Perry Event Pastor Predicts Coming “Prison Camps” For Jews.” Weinstein prefaced it with (emphasis original)
This is the level of religious fundamentalism that threatens our country’s future, and I will NEVER stop fighting it!
The tone was somewhat unusual, given the topic had nothing to do with the military, which is Weinstein’s self-proclaimed forte. In fact, there’s no public connection to the MRFF at all, save the personal association between the author and Weinstein’s group. Weinstein’s critical sensationalism on the topic was a display of rank hypocrisy as well, for Weinstein has similarly predicted a dire future for Jews at the hands of American Christians:
In Plan A, evangelical Christians with a smile on their face will ask you to please, please, please accept their biblical worldview of Jesus. The problem with that is, inevitably, Plan A morphs into Plan B. They stop asking so nicely, and then you have the Holocaust, the pogroms, the Inquisition…

This country is going through — right now — a transition from A to B. (Weinstein quoted in the Colorado Springs Independent, 02 Mar 06)

In their world capital punishment for sodomy, adultery, for unruly children, and the end of free speech are desirable goals mandated by God…
As a Jew I confronted a situation through ears that still hear the cries of my people walking silently into the brick buildings that would reduce them to ash. I cannot stand still and let that happen to my country…
We can expect violence…They may try to harm me but I will not go quietly; I will be a Jew from the Warsaw Ghetto, not Berlin. (Weinstein writing on OpEdnews.com, 24 April 2007)
It is unclear why, beyond mere hypocritical sensationalism, Weinstein holds up for derision beliefs that are not far from his own words. According to Wilson, Mike Bickle has said Jews in the future may be thrown into prison or death camps. Michael Weinstein said much the same thing. Is Michael Weinstein fighting himself, as well?
Notably, Casey Weinstein likewise posted the link on the MRFF Facebook page, with the similar lead-in emphasizing Rick Perry’s candidacy:



God and Country Weinstein Predicts Holocaust, Goes After Presidential Candidates
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Lets be patient....truth comes in pieces for most people.
They have their beliefs from constant repetition. We can do the same.
Pull or push too hard people resist. Scare them they will freeze.
Insult their intelligence they will blow you off along with the message.



Good work zone...dont be weary in well doing.
I appreciate you very much for all your help and labors.
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
402
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('FREEMASONRY IS A CHURCH: THE COUNTER-CHURCH" says the
Mason F. Limousin in Masonic Review "L'Acacia", October 1902). Since
1738 all the Sovereign Pontiffs denounced, stigmatized and condemned
the enemy of the Church, the Counter-Church, whose proclaimed aim is
to: decatholicize the World.. . . It seeks to rebuild on the ashes of
the Christian civilization the pagan barbarism, and to build on the ruins
of the Papacy the world domination of Israel; furthermore, as a sign of
its victory, it wants to erect over the overthrown throne of Jesus Christ
the very throne of Satan.
What can be done against this world power? EVERYTHING! ..
in the strength of Him... who Christianized the world. .. whose Holy
Sepulcher or the Dome of Saint Peter in Rome cannot be darkened by
the shadows cast by the Masonic Lodges—the Kabbalistic mysteries of
the Ghettoes will not alter a single iota of the Gospel or of the Credo; the
accumulation of gold in the hands of High Finance will ever fail to buy
the conscience of Christ's representative in the Vatican."
Papacy and Freemasonry, 1930.1
1 Reprint of speech, Christian Book Club of America, P.O. Box 900566,
Palmdale, CA 93590.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
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now see,,,,,,,,which is why im here,,,,,,,,,,the "zionistic jew",,,,im not,,,,,,im "christian",,,,,i have a friend though,,, worked with for years,,, not any more though,,,,too old,,,ive converted him to christianity half my life ,,,he converted me to the hope 7 gen. from now my children will become jewish,,,, weve looked at the "british museium" at the original manuscripts,,,, new tes. of cors.,,,,,,,and all the doc. he could amass,,,, my advice is "dont go there" if your of the "normal christian crowd",,,,,dont go there
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
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now ive surfed through the "chats/christian" for well,,,,,,,www came about 1989, before that it was just conected to the collage libraries,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,manuscripts are broken and sandwitched between glass and given to the different students to " learn ainchent launguages",,,, try "princton archives" ,,,,,,,,,,youll find everything from "contracts" to "a magical amulet" in greek,,,,,,,deokonesonees ect.,, or try searching "james harris" the names of god, he shows quite a bit of proof of the fact that the "pueblo indians" also used the name "yah' as the "one god"
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
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i need one of you to be smarter than me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,tell me what you can proove,,,,,,not what you think
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
1,548
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i did not like the mind of the "zionistic jew" it was offencive to me,,,,,,,,,,,but it prooved to be "very deffencive"
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
1,548
113
if i dont anws. promt , im serfing another site also,,, ill be here again