View Poll Results: would you take the Noahide Oath?

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Thread: The Noahide Laws

  1. #41
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    hi bro.
    the israelites were always back on forth into idolatry and stuff.
    just because we got a nation in the Middle East today doesn't mean Moses is honored there, let alone Jesus.

    Ezekiel 8
    Abominations in the Temple
    1In the sixth year, in the sixth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I sat in my house, with the elders of Judah sitting before me, the hand of the Lord God fell upon me there. 2Then I looked, and behold, a form that had the appearance of a man.a Below what appeared to be his waist was fire, and above his waist was something like the appearance of brightness, like gleaming metal.b 3He put out the form of a hand and took me by a lock of my head, and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the gateway of the inner court that faces north, where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy. 4And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the vision that I saw in the valley.

    5Then he said to me, “Son of man, lift up your eyes now toward the north.” So I lifted up my eyes toward the north, and behold, north of the altar gate, in the entrance, was this image of jealousy. 6And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations that the house of Israel are committing here, to drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see still greater abominations.”

    7And he brought me to the entrance of the court, and when I looked, behold, there was a hole in the wall. 8Then he said to me, “Son of man, dig in the wall.” So I dug in the wall, and behold, there was an entrance. 9And he said to me, “Go in, and see the vile abominations that they are committing here.” 10So I went in and saw. And there, engraved on the wall all around, was every form of creeping things and loathsome beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel. 11And before them stood seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, with Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan standing among them. Each had his censer in his hand, and the smoke of the cloud of incense went up. 12Then he said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel are doing in the dark, each in his room of pictures? For they say, ‘The Lord does not see us, the Lord has forsaken the land.’” 13He said also to me, “You will see still greater abominations that they commit.”

    14Then he brought me to the entrance of the north gate of the house of the Lord, and behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 15Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.”

    16And he brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord. And behold, at the entrance of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east. 17Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations that they commit here, that they should fill the land with violence and provoke me still further to anger? Behold, they put the branch to theirc nose. 18Therefore I will act in wrath. My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity. And though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.”
    hey sis. I have to clean up and get ready to head back to the shop, and home. i will respond to this then. Just don't want you to think I am ignoring ya!!
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  2. #42
    Senior Member zone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Sis. This does not even come close to the whole of what Babylonian taught. Even scripture teaches of a paradise, and spirits (Moses and Elijah were with Christ on the mountain) It is a misinterpretation of scripture. it might find its roots in Babylon, but it is not strictly a Babylonian pagan thing.

    Babylonian believed in many Gods. had many pagan temples and practices and traditions. did not even believe in the God of Abraham. etc etc etc. which do not even come close to resembling anything in the Talmud, phariseeism or anything Jewish today. This is where we disagree. Because the babylon of revelation would resemble the babylon of the OT. Nothing you have shown me show that these jews come anywhere near to pagan worship that Babylon practiced. Like I said. They might be a daughter (where they get some of these false beliefs.) But they are not the mother of the harlots.

    Still love ya though.
    this stuff all came from Babylon.
    Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev is Jerusalem.
    Rome is her daughter (so is EO and Islam and many of our gnostic emergents today)

    no offense to my catholic or EO or emergent friends...i do love you.

  3. #43
    Senior Member zone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    hey sis. I have to clean up and get ready to head back to the shop, and home. i will respond to this then. Just don't want you to think I am ignoring ya!!
    YAY! k bud.
    have a blessed day

  4. #44
    Senior Member zone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Jewish Roots of the American Constitution

    Prof. Paul Eidelberg

    8. The fifteen Capital Laws of New England included the “Seven Noahide Laws” of the Torah, or what may be termed the seven universal laws of morality. Six prohibit idolatry, blasphemy, murder, robbery, adultery, and eating flesh from a living animal, while the seventh requires the establishment of courts of justice. Such courts are obviously essential to any society based on the primacy of reason or persuasion rather than passion or intimidation.

    http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=35

  5. #45
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    [url=http://www.samliquidation.com/noachite.htm]Noachite


    Sorry for such a short piece zone But this guy has a bit of an issue with the Noahide laws it seems.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    site : Noachite


    try that again

  7. #47
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    WITHOUT A FRAMEWORK - NO ONE SEES THE TRUTH

    I see The Nicene Creed says one
    To another The Apostles Creed has won

    Another says it's The Noahide Laws
    Clearly I see - THAT ALL HAVE FLAWS ...


    THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT

    It was six men of Indostan
    To learning much inclined,
    Who went to see the Elephant
    (Though all of them were blind),
    That each by observation
    Might satisfy his mind.

    The First approach'd the Elephant,
    And happening to fall
    Against his broad and sturdy side,
    At once began to bawl:
    "God bless me! but the Elephant
    Is very like a wall!"

    The Second, feeling of the tusk,
    Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
    So very round and smooth and sharp?
    To me 'tis mighty clear
    This wonder of an Elephant
    Is very like a spear!"

    The Third approached the animal,
    And happening to take
    The squirming trunk within his hands,
    Thus boldly up and spake:
    "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
    Is very like a snake!"

    The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
    And felt about the knee.
    "What most this wondrous beast is like
    Is mighty plain," quoth he,
    "'Tis clear enough the Elephant
    Is very like a tree!"

    The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
    Said: "E'en the blindest man
    Can tell what this resembles most;
    Deny the fact who can,
    This marvel of an Elephant
    Is very like a fan!"

    The Sixth no sooner had begun
    About the beast to grope,
    Then, seizing on the swinging tail
    That fell within his scope,
    "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
    Is very like a rope!"

    And so these men of Indostan
    Disputed loud and long,
    Each in his own opinion
    Exceeding stiff and strong,
    Though each was partly in the right,
    And all were in the wrong!

    MORAL.

    So oft in theologic wars,
    The disputants, I ween,
    Rail on in utter ignorance
    Of what each other mean,
    And prate about an Elephant
    Not one of them has seen!


    John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend,
    The Poems of John Godfrey Saxe, Complete edition; Boston: James R. Osgood and
    Company, (1873)



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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    Jewish Roots of the American Constitution

    Prof. Paul Eidelberg

    8. The fifteen Capital Laws of New England included the “Seven Noahide Laws” of the Torah, or what may be termed the seven universal laws of morality. Six prohibit idolatry, blasphemy, murder, robbery, adultery, and eating flesh from a living animal, while the seventh requires the establishment of courts of justice. Such courts are obviously essential to any society based on the primacy of reason or persuasion rather than passion or intimidation.

    http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=35

    Courts of Justice? Who's Justice? What Laws? Void for Vagueness.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    False Premise: A Creed is a Doctrine -
    * The Nicene Creed (Latin: Symbolum Nicaenum)

    * The Noahide Laws - A Noahide Pledge
    * The Pledge of Allegiance

    A statement such as a 'creed' or the Noahide laws or the pledge of allegiance are a
    summary. Sadly this statement does not refer to the Scriptures, an error of Omission. The
    Creed becomes an ICON or symbol of a religion or government. These are NOT A
    DOCTRINAL STATEMENT!

    Like any Icon or Symbol, such a summary can be misleading or confusing (VAGUE). What
    about the Pledge of Allegiance, or waving a Flag? -- Mere Symbols or ICONS of
    "Something". The dangers of omission and of icons is that other doctrines or laws or
    customs or practices are then added to such a thing, so as to distort, corrupt or veil the
    truth that is purported to be shown by the Icon. The Flag of the US for example certainly
    does not represent the same nation of just 100 years ago. Likewise, corruption, deception
    and distortion have crept in to all these churches that use this ICONIC representation.
    Abuse in the church, homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, and such other corruptions are
    examples of the practices of the modern church.

    Outline:

    1) Syllogism / False Premise
    2) Creed = Symbol, Icon -- Icon = Cult Symbolus/ICON
    3) Errors of Omission = Out of Balance, lacking
    4) Errors and Omissions = Malpractice
    5) [Void for] Vagueness Doctrine
    6) Icon - Law - John Roberts, Illegitimacy, Child Trafficing, Supreme Court, Catholic -
    Jesuit, Atty General SMITH

    1) Syllogism / False Premise

    False Premise: A Creed is a Doctrine - The Nicene Creed (Latin: Symbolum Nicaenum)

    A syllogism (Greek: συλλογισμός – syllogismos – "conclusion," "inference") or logical
    appeal is a kind of logical argument in which one proposition (the conclusion) is inferred
    from two others (the premises) of a certain form, i.e. categorical proposition.
    Reference (Link): -->> Syllogism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of a logical syllogism.
    Since the premise (proposition, or assumption) is not correct, the conclusion drawn may
    be in error.
    Reference (Link): -->> False premise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    2) Creed = Symbol, Icon - The Nicene Creed (Latin: Symbolum Nicaenum)
    ICON - Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: image
    Synonyms: figure, graphic image, graphical user interface, idol, ikon, likeness, painted
    image, picture, portrait, portrayal, representation, symbol
    Reference (Link): -->> Icon Synonyms, Icon Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

    There are several designations for the two forms of the Nicene creed, some with
    overlapping meanings:

    * Icon/Symbol of the Faith is the usual designation for the revised version of
    Constantinople 381 in the Orthodox churches, where this is the only creed used in the
    liturgy.


    The Greek word passed through Latin "symbolum" into English "symbol", which only later
    took on the meaning of an outward sign of something.

    Reference (Link): -->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

    Iconography: The visual images, symbols, or modes of representation collectively
    associated with a person, cult, or movement: "the iconography of pop culture".
    Reference (Link): -->> definition of iconography from Oxford Dictionaries Online

    3) Errors of omission

    Error of Omission - In accounting, an error of omission is when a transaction is completely
    omitted from the accounting records. As the debits and credits for the transaction would
    balance, omitting it would still leave the totals balanced
    Reference (Link): -->> Trial balance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Reference (Link): -->> Doctrinal Statement/Mission Statement

    4) Errors and Omissions = Malpractice

    errors and omissions n. short-hand for malpractice insurance which gives physicians,
    attorneys, architects, accountants and other professionals coverage for claims by
    patients and clients for alleged professional errors and omissions which amount to
    negligence.
    Reference (Link): -->> errors and omissions legal definition of errors and omissions

    5) [Void for] Vagueness Doctrine

    Definition

    1) A constitutional rule that requires criminal laws to state explicitly and definitely what
    conduct is punishable. Criminal laws that violate this requirement are said to be void
    forvagueness. Vagueness doctrine rests on the due process clauses of the Fifth and
    Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. By requiring fair notice of what is
    punishable and what is not, vagueness doctrine also helps prevent arbitrary enforcement
    of the laws.

    2) Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature's
    delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead
    to arbitrary prosecutions.
    Reference (Link): -->> Vagueness doctrine | LII / Legal Information Institute
    Reference (Link): -->> Doctrinal Statement/Mission Statement

    6) Icon - Law - John Roberts, U.S. Supreme Court, Catholicism -Jesuits, Illegitimacy, Atty General SMITH, ICONS


    * John Roberts is the Chief Judge of the U.S. Supreme Court, the highest judge of the land
    * John Roberts is a Catholic, married to a graduate of a Jesuit Institutions (George Town)
    * John Roberts has in his house, two adopted children, illegitimate, by two different
    mothers, from the island nation of Ireland, laundered to the U.S. by way of South America
    * John Roberts first position out of law school was as clerk to then Attorney General
    SMITH, in the Reagan Administration
    * THIS IS A SYMBOL or ICON of -- MITHRA, ILLEGITIMACY, CHILD TRAFFICING
    * THIS IS A SYMBOL or ICON of -- LAW, CATHOLICISM, MITHRA

  10. #50
    Senior Member zone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    DA
    please don't flood this thread with unrelated information - this is a serious issue that needs simple straight forward historical and factual information.
    we're a little short on time.
    thank you
    zone.

    btw: would you take that Pledge?
    if not, why not? exactly what is wrong with it?

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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    DA
    please don't flood this thread with unrelated information - this is a serious issue that needs simple straight forward historical and factual information.
    we're a little short on time.
    thank you
    zone.

    btw: would you take that Pledge?
    if not, why not? exactly what is wrong with it?
    This is not a flood, (two preceding posts) - it is certainly not unrelated. Indeed, the entire
    point is to show the inability to relate to a theme, concept, framework, outline, or
    foundation due to the Blind Leaders of the Blind.

    THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT attempts to illustrate how people see things in their
    own way, how they do not see the whole, why all may be partially right, and instead all are
    in the wrong.


    The outline in the previous post above is an expression of the fallacies of claiming an oath
    to an icon or symbol and where that sort of oath or pledge leads.


    I voted NO, for those reasons (and more). I will post a few more explanatory and
    alternative posts
    to complete the concept.



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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    DA
    please don't flood this thread with unrelated information - this is a serious issue that needs simple straight forward historical and factual information.
    we're a little short on time.
    thank you
    zone.
    * I posted what is wrong with not having a framework, and an example of what happens
    generally with any ICON or SYMBOL, and specifically where Catholicism and LAW are in the
    US as of right now.
    I will follow-up with Noah and Tanakh in a similar fashion.

    *
    Feel free to question or comment on any of the postings that are not clear or don't
    seem to relate. I am simply setting the stage for a particular rebuttal of Noah and The
    Noahidic Pledge and Torah/Tanakh. This was done for The Nicene/Apostles Creed, Pledge
    of Allegiance, Catholicism, and Man's Law. I will follow-up with Noah and Tanakh in a
    similar fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    DA
    btw: would you take that Pledge?
    if not, why not? exactly what is wrong with it?

    * I posted what is wrong with not having a framework, and an example of what happens
    generally with any ICON or SYMBOL, and specifically where Catholicism and LAW are in the
    US as of right now.
    I will follow-up with Noah and Tanakh in a similar fashion.

    * I bet ya can't wait for what I have to say about Noah or Torah/Tanakh, and the
    alternative to all this sadness, this glorious madness, that brings me to my knees...

    * Update: (not copyrighted, feel free to add or edit, to send to your democratically
    elected representatives).

    In re: The Elephant and the Blind Men:

    I SEE The Nicene Creed says one
    To another The Apostles Creed has won

    Still another says "Noahide or Sharia Laws"
    Clearly I see - THAT ALL HAVE FLAWS ...

    Maybe its a flag, a stone, a statue, a cross
    Maybe it's mere men who've become the dross

    protestants, catholics, -- athesits, islam and jews
    seems that blinded men all have different views


    (P.S. Am not a poet, just that my toes are "Long-Fellows")
    Last edited by Digital_Angel_316; July 20th, 2011 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post

    ^^ Babylonian Talmud ^^


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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws


  15. #55
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Angel_316 View Post
    * I posted what is wrong with not having a framework, and an example of what happens
    well, DA:
    i take a different approach to study and presentation of results in a 'framework'.

    i research a topic(s) thoroughly first myself, then simply present samples and sources, hoping others seek out and apply any significance themselves.

    i've found that some subjects are so intense and complex that establishing the kind of "framework"you are suggesting only restricts the reader and directs their thinking necessarily.

    i believe anyone is able to reach their own conclusions on any given subject without someone else's system.
    cited sources is the best research help we have.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    The Noahide Pledge

    From English WikiNoah


    Jump to: navigation, search
    Maimonides says that "One who accepts these [basic laws] is called: Ger Toshav in every place, and he must be accepted in front of three judges"[1], and in the next verse says "Everyone who accepts the seven commandments and is careful to perform them – this person is of the Chasidei Umos HaOlam, and he has a portion in the world to come. He accepts them and performs them because they were commanded by the Kodosh Baruch Hu, revealed to us by the hand of Moshe Rabbenu that the Bnei Noah were previously commanded in these things. However, if he keeps these [laws] because of intellectual decision – he is not called a Ger Toshav and is not of the Chasidei Umos HaOlam, he is [only] one of their wise men."[2]

    The following are various opinions on the appearance of the Noahide in front of three judges, commonly – although usually incorrectly – called the Noahide Oath.

    http://wikinoah.org/index.php/The_Noahide_Pledge


    ~

    to ponder:

    would you take this Oath?
    should anyone?
    where does this come from?
    where is it headed?
    Hoffman's Judaism Slideshow PREVIEW

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyeW4G2WGXs&feature=related


  17. #57
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    The Noahide Pledge

    From English WikiNoah


    Jump to: navigation, search
    Maimonides says that "One who accepts these [basic laws] is called: Ger Toshav in every place, and he must be accepted in front of three judges"[1], and in the next verse says "Everyone who accepts the seven commandments and is careful to perform them – this person is of the Chasidei Umos HaOlam, and he has a portion in the world to come. He accepts them and performs them because they were commanded by the Kodosh Baruch Hu, revealed to us by the hand of Moshe Rabbenu that the Bnei Noah were previously commanded in these things. However, if he keeps these [laws] because of intellectual decision – he is not called a Ger Toshav and is not of the Chasidei Umos HaOlam, he is [only] one of their wise men."[2]

    The following are various opinions on the appearance of the Noahide in front of three judges, commonly – although usually incorrectly – called the Noahide Oath.

    http://wikinoah.org/index.php/The_Noahide_Pledge


    ~

    to ponder:

    would you take this Oath?
    should anyone?
    where does this come from?
    where is it headed?
    Michael A. Hoffman II: Jewish philosophy toward Amalek (Palestinians) ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY08-JuClb4&feature=related

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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    this stuff all came from Babylon.
    Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev is Jerusalem.
    Rome is her daughter (so is EO and Islam and many of our gnostic emergents today)

    no offense to my catholic or EO or emergent friends...i do love you.
    A quick reply.

    1 Yes that stuff came from babylon. What they were doing was pagan worship. They were a daughter of babylon at the time, And it is also why they were being puniched by God.

    I don't see this today. And after reading the noahide laws. i don't see it in there. Paganism from babylon had a bunch or ritual and tradition. Which when you see babylon you will see this ritual this is how you will know them.

    again I look at what revelations says the harlot is, and how we can know her. And I see non of those things in Israel or Jerusalem. Thatch why I can't agree with the argument that Jerusalem or Israel is the harlot. They have "played" the harlot many times. But being the harlot. I don't see it.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  19. #59
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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    A quick reply.

    1 Yes that stuff came from babylon. What they were doing was pagan worship. They were a daughter of babylon at the time, And it is also why they were being puniched by God.

    I don't see this today. And after reading the noahide laws. i don't see it in there. Paganism from babylon had a bunch or ritual and tradition. Which when you see babylon you will see this ritual this is how you will know them.

    again I look at what revelations says the harlot is, and how we can know her. And I see non of those things in Israel or Jerusalem. Thatch why I can't agree with the argument that Jerusalem or Israel is the harlot. They have "played" the harlot many times. But being the harlot. I don't see it.
    hi EG.

    Revelation 11:8
    Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    love zone.

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    Default Re: The Noahide Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    hi EG.

    Revelation 11:8
    Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    love zone.
    Yes. This is Jerusalem. But this city is not called babylon. It is called the great city. In scripture, Jerusalem is the greatest and most important city to mankind. so yes, it is "the great city" One has to assume it is babylon, And I try not to base my beliefs on assumptions
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Last Post: January 4th, 2010, 03:32 AM