Forgeries in the Church

[Katy-follower]

Worth looking into. I just came across this, written by a former nun....

Forged Documents and


This is no attack on anyone, I'm just quoting information as I find it.

[Scotth1960]

Originally Posted by Katy-follower

Worth looking into. I just came across this, written by a former nun....

Forged Documents and


This is no attack on anyone, I'm just quoting information as I find it.

Dear Katy-follower.
My recommendation on forgery in Western Christendom.
I recommend you see GOOGLE Wikipedia and see
Donation of Constantine
Pseudo-Isidore, Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals
God bless you.
Scott Harrington

[Hearer]

the holy spirit has ensured that the secular power of the RC church has been trimmed back and that it is led by a strongly Christocentric gentle pope along the lines of the Christocentric Vatican II document. The RC church has modernized and reformed. Now the form of Mass in the English speaking countries is relaxed and joyful and led by priest along with a laity based Church council. Women are leaders and eucharistic minsisters and readers and we get to focus on the communion with happiness and adoration.

as usual the service is heavily centred around three bible readings plus a psalm. The gospel usually forms the basis of the sermon.

[dscherck]

Ahh, Mary Anne Collins. The mystery nun who has no records of her ever being involved in any convent anywhere in the world, who makes spectacular claims without any proof, and who makes numerous fake claims that are easily disproved by actually reading the official Church documents.

She's about as credible as Lorraine Boettner and Jack Chick when it comes to the Catholic Church. In other words, not very.

[Katy-follower]

Also, here some other stuff I've found...


THE TRUE CHURCH

The Roman Catholic Church claims to be God's true Church and all members are to promise obedience to the Bishop of Rome, whom she claims is successor to Saint Peter, Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic Church is built on the assumption that in Matthew 16:13-19 Jesus appointed Peter the first pope and so founded His Church and established the papacy. If this is true, then all true Christians must become Catholic, if it is false, the whole Catholic religion is false and cultic and no true Christians could be identified with such a system. We must, then, search the Scriptures in order to know what is true. The Scriptures are not merely the writings of men, "But holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). "All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproving, for correcting, for instructing in justice; that the man of God may be perfect, equipped for every good work: (2 Timothy 3:16-17). "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words (the Bible) shall not pass away" (Matthew 24:35). Both Scripture and history testify to the authenticity, reliability, efficiency, and sufficiency of the Bible. Though some translations are better than others, most are reliable enough for general study.

When Jesus, in Matthew 16:18, said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" He used the demonstrative "this" (taute), pointing to Peter's confession, "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God" as the rock. Jesus said, "Thou are Peter (petros, a stone - all believers are stones (1 Peter 2:5 and Ephesians 2:21), and upon this rock (petra, a huge rock foundation - the confession that Jesus is the Christ), I will build my church". He did not promise to build His Church upon Peter. Jesus would not have trusted such a precious possession as His Church to the leadership of even one fallible man much less a whole succession of them. The pope of Rome is called the Vicar of the Son of God (Vicarius Filii Dei). In the Bible we find that the Holy Spirit, not a pope, was sent to take the place of Jesus on earth. That is what Vicar means. The Holy Spirit was given to guide us into all truth (John 16:7-15) and the Scriptures were given for teaching, for reproving, for correction, and for instruction (2 Timothy 3:16). Christ did not leave His Church to human leadership. Jesus Himself is still the Head of His Church. He speaks to us through His infallible Word, the Holy Scriptures, by His ever present and infallible Holy Spirit.

Let us remember that Christ is the Rock and only Head of the Church (1 Corinthians 3:11). For other foundation no one can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Christ Jesus.


I Corinthians 10:4. The rock was Christ.

Ephesians 1:22,23. Head over all the Church.

Ephesians 2:20. Christ Jesus... the chief corner stone.


Around thirty-four times in the Old Testament God is call a Rock or the Rock of Israel. You see, the Bible clearly teaches that when Jesus founded His Church, He was to be the only Head, the Holy Spirit the Vicar and Guide, and the Bible the only authority for faith and practice. All true Christians constitute THE TRUE CHURCH (those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, who believe and obey Christ's teachings). True believers were called "Christians", not "Catholics".


Acts 11:26 Disciples were first called Christians.

Acts 26:28 Persuade me to become a Christian.

I Peter 4:16 Suffer as a Christian


There were no Roman Catholics until Christianity was merged with paganism into a state religion around 315 A.D. The true Christians obeyed God's Word, they never joined in the pagan corruption. The gates of hell have never prevailed against the true believers, they are few, their way is narrow, they would rather suffer martyrdom than compromise the Word of God or deny their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



THE POPE

The Pope is called "Our Holy Father". See encyclical letter of Pope Leo XIII in the Douay Version of the Bible. He is also called "Our Most Holy Lord", Pope Pius X. See Cardinals Oath. Moreri, a famous historian said, "To make war against the Pope is to make war against God, seeing the Pope is God and God is the Pope". Decius said, "The Pope can do all things God can do". Pope Leo XIII said of himself, "The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God himself." Pope Pius X said, "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ himself hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who speaks." Pope Pius XI once declared, "You know that I am the Holy Father, the representative of God on earth, the Vicar of Christ, which means that I am God on the earth." All this is blasphemy.


Isaiah 44:8 Is there a God besides me?

Matthew 23:9 Call no one on earth your father.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord.

Philippians 2:11 Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

I Peter 5:3 Nor yet as lording it over your charges.

I Peter 5:1-4 I, your fellow-presbyter.


Peter called himself a presbyter (pastor), not a pope. He refused honor (Acts 10:25,26) saying "Stand up for I myself also am a man". The apostles argued regarding who was greatest in the kingdom (Matthew 18:1) which indicates that even they did not accept Peter as head of the Church. The wealth and power of the Roman Popes could have come to Peter or any of the apostles. They had charisma, they could heal and raise the dead and perform many other miracles. They could have accumulated gold and land and conquering armies, but they gave away all that was placed at their feet (Acts 4:37, 3:6). They rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 5:41). How could anyone be so naive as to think that the papacy evolved out of such humility and simplicity. The office of Pope is of pagan origin and cannot in any way be substantiated in Scripture. Because of the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit, such an office is not necessary or even desirable.


THE PRIESTHOOD

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus Christ ordained the twelve apostles to the priesthood at the Last Supper and that the powers of the priesthood were handed down during the past two thousand years. This teaching is clearly contrary to the Word of God.

In the Old Testament the work of Christ was prefigured under the three offices of prophet, priest and king. The nation of Israel had each office. With the coming of Christ each of these offices found its fulfillment in Him. Thus in the New Testament there is no need for a human sacrificing priesthood.


John 19:30. It is consummated.

I Timothy 2:5. There is one God, and one Mediator...Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:24. Because he continues forever, has an everlasting (non-transferable, intransmissible) priesthood.

Hebrews 7:25. He lives always to make intercession.

Hebrews 7:27. He does not need to offer sacrifices daily.

Hebrews 9:12. Having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10. We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I Corinthians 12:28. God indeed has placed some in the Church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers...(no mention of sacramental priests).

Ephesians 4:11. He Himself gave some men as apostles, and some as prophets, others again as evangelists, and others as pastors and teachers...(again no mention of sacramental priests).

I Peter 5:1-3. I, your fellow-presbyter and witness...(Nothing about being a priest).


The office of priest is not the same as minister. The concept of a mediating, sacrificing priesthood originated and developed under Cyprian, the theological authority in the West until the time of Augustine, and was part of the merger of paganism with Christianity. Nowhere in the Scriptures will one find evidence of a mediating, sacrificing priesthood after Christ.


THE MASS

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Mass is the unbloody sacrifice of the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It also teaches that the Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross. Both are against God's teaching.

Hebrews 7:27. He died once for all.

Hebrews 9:11-15. He entered once for all.

Hebrews 9:26. Once for all.

Hebrews 9:28. Christ offered once.

Hebrews 10:10. Once for all.

Hebrews 10:11,12. One sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:14. For by one offering.

Hebrews 10:15-20. There is no longer offering for sin.


If Christ is offered again by Roman Catholic priests as they claim, then the above Scriptures are not true. There are more than 100,000 Masses said all over the world every day. Jesus suffers the terrible agony of Calvary at least 100,000 times every twenty-four hours instead of "once for all" as the Scriptures teach. We must believe the Scriptures. If we truly love the Lord Jesus Christ and seek to follow His Word, we will have no regard for the teaching that the bread and wine are "changed" into the body and blood of Christ and then presented to God as a sacrifice by which God is appeased and atonement o sin is made. When Jesus said, "This is my body" or "blood", He did not "change" the substance, but was explaining that He is the one "represented" by the Passover bread and wine. Jesus did not say touto gignetai, this has become or is turned into, but touto esti, which can only mean this represents or stands for. Just as the Passover was a remembrance, so is Communion of the Lord's Supper a remembrance until He comes. The Roman Church, in advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation, departs from the literal sense of Scripture. May we be able to say with the Apostle Paul: "We at least, are not, as many others, adulterating the Word of God." (2 Corinthians 2:17)



CONFESSION OR THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that her priests exercise the power of forgiving sins by hearing confession of sins and granting pardon for them as ministers of God and in His name.

This teaching is not from the Bible.


Mark 2:7. Who can forgive sins, but only God.

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other.

Acts 8:12. Repent...and pray to God. (Peter did not hear his confession and forgive him, but said, "pray to God".)

I John 1:7. The Blood of Jesus Christ...cleanses us from all sin.

I John 1:9. If we acknowledge our sins. (To God, not to a priest - automatic confession and absolution.)

I John 2:1. If anyone sins we have an advocate (Jesus) with the Father.


Throughout the Bible remission of sin and salvation are connected with faith in Christ, nowhere with priestly absolution. In order to support her tribunal upon earth, the Roman Catholic Church mis-interprets Matthew 16:19, "I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven". Also Matthew 18:18, "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". And John 20:23, "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained". First of all, the "keys of the kingdom" refers to the authority to proclaim the terms of salvation in Christ. This is the privilege and duty of all Christian believers. The authority to bind and loose is first and foremost the commission to proclaim the gospel which liberates those who believe it, and consigns to bondage those who reject it. The Roman Catholic Church misinterprets this text in order to support the practice of confessing sins to a priest. The Biblical context clearly indicates, however, that the words of Matthew 16:19, 18:18, and John 20:23 were not only spoken to the apostles but also to those believers who were with them. Christian ministers are to preach repentance, but nothing is said about hearing confession and the granting of absolution (forgiveness of sins).



JUSTIFICATION

The most important question pertinent to religion is, "how may a man obtain the forgiveness of (his) sins?" Here is where the most significant deviation occurs. The Bible teaches that "faith" secures the remission of sins (Acts 10:43) while Roman Catholicism teaches that the "sacraments" (in addition to faith) do. We must be very precise here for the Apostle Paul said that any different way of salvation, even if given by an angel, would be accursed. Jesus said that the seed sown on good ground "understood" the way of salvation (Matthew 13:23). We urge you to embrace the Lord's way and let go of the former way. The Scripture says, "Having been justified therefore by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). One Catholic writer is defending his Church made a statement that we all should heed. He said that if faith alone saves "the whole traditional structure of Christianity is a needless empty show, the Mass, the sacraments, the sacrificing priesthood, the teaching hierarchy, the papacy, practices of penance, asceticism, habits of self-restraint, prayer. Nay, these things are a hindrance, an enormous sham, a terrible system of lies, and therefore to be utterly swept away and destroyed." Philip Hughes, A POPULAR HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, p. 176. True Biblical Christianity rejects the notion that salvation is a moral process, that the sinner is "made" just, or "works out" his salvation by his own deeds.

Heed what God teaches in the following texts:


John 3:3. Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

John 5:24. He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has life everlasting, and does not come to judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other.

Romans 4:5. but to him who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the impious, his faith is credited to him.

Romans 4:6. David declares the blessedness of the man to whom God credits justice without works.

Romans 3:28. We reckon that a man is justified by faith independently of the works of the Law.

Romans 5:1. Having been justified therefore by faith.

Romans 10:3. Ignorant of the justice of God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to the justice of God.

Titus 3:5. Not by reason of good works that we did ourselves, but according to his mercy...

[Katy-follower]

ROMAN CATHOLIC INVENTIONS


1. Presbyters first called priests by Lucian 2nd c.
2. Sacerdotal mass instituted by Cyprian 3rd c.
3. Prayers for the dead A.D. 300
4. Making the sign of the cross A.D. 300
5. Wax candles A.D. 320
6. Veneration of angels, dead saints, and images A.D. 375
7. Mass became a daily ritual A.D. 394
8. Beginning of exaltation of Mary, term "Mother of God"
first applied to her by Council of Ephesus A.D. 431
9. Priests began to wear special clothing A.D. 500
10. Extreme Unction (Rite of Healing) A.D. 526
11. The doctrine of Purgatory by Gregory I A.D. 593
12. Latin used in worship A.D. 600
13. Prayers offered to Mary, dead saints and angels A.D. 600
14. First man to be proclaimed Pope (Boniface III) A.D. 610
15. Kissing the Pope's feet A.D. 709
16. Temporal power of Popes, conferred by Pepon,
King of the Franks A.D. 750
17. Veneration of cross, images, relics authorized A.D. 786
18. holy water, mixed with pinch of salt, chrism, and blessed
by a priest A.D. 850
19. Veneration of St. Joseph A.D. 890
20. College of Cardinals begun A.D. 927
21. Baptism of bells instituted by Pope John XIII A.D. 965
22. Canonization of dead saints by Pope John XV A.D. 995
23. Fasting on Fridays and Lent A.D. 998
24. The Mass developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance
made obligatory 11th c.
25. Celibacy of priests declared A.D. 1079
26. Rosary adopted (pagan) by Peter the Hermit A.D. 1090
27. The Inquisition instituted by Council of Verona A.D. 1184
28. Sale of indulgences A.D. 1190
29. Seven Sacraments, defined by Peter Lombard 12th c.
30. Transubstantiation, defined by Innocent III A.D. 1215
31. Auricular confession (Rite of reconciliation) of sins to a
priest instead of God, instituted by Innocent III A.D. 1215
32. Adoration of the wafer (called the Host), decreed by
Pope Honorius III A.D. 1220
33. Scapular invented by Simon Stock of England A.D. 1251
34. The cup forbidden to the laity at communion by Council of
Constance A.D. 1414
35. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of
Florence in A.D. 1439
36. Tradition declared of equal authority with the Bible by the
Council of Trent A.D. 1545
37. Apocryphal books are added to the Bible by the Council
of Trent A.D. 1546
38. Creed of Pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed in place
of the original Apostolic Creed A.D. 1560
39. Immaculate Conception of Mary (not virgin birth) proclaimed
by Pope Pius IX A.D. 1854
40. Syllabus of Errors proclaimed by Pope Pius IX and ratified
by the Vatican Council; condemned freedom of religion,
conscience, speech, press and scientific discoveries which
are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the Pope's
temporal authority over all civil rulers A.D. 1864
41. Infallibility of the Pope in matters of faith and morals
proclaimed by the Vatican Council A.D. 1870
42. Assumption of Mary proclaimed by Pius XII A.D. 1950
43. Mary proclaimed the "Mother of the Church" by Pope
Paul VI A.D. 1965



Cardinal Newman, in his book, THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, admits that "temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays, and seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images .. are all of pagan origin." (p.359) Yet, we are told that to practice these traditions is to make void the Word of God (Matthew 15:16), to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9). Also see 2 John 9-10.

The Bible itself declares that the way of salvation is so plain that even "fools shall not err therein" (Isaias 35:8). When the blind lead the blind, both fall...(Matthew 15:14). The urgent need of our day is to search the never changing Scriptures to see if what popes, cardinals, bishops, priests, minister, and teachers tell us is the truth or not. In apostolic days this was done: "Now these were a nobler character than those of Thessalonica and they received the word with great eagerness, studying the Scriptures every day to see whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11). Those who do not teach and preach the Gospel as it is found in the Scriptures are under the curse of God. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel to you other than that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:8). Do not be deceived by false teachers. See Colossians 2:8. Test everything! (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

These Biblical truths are offered in a spirit of true Christian love. We ask you to consider them objectively so that with the Psalmist you can declare, "I have chosen the way of truth" (Psalm 118:30).

[Hearer]

well I have two comments:
1) I am ecumenical, because I believe by the HS in the first two articles of the westminster shorter catechism (protestant) BUT
2) The RC is the church as a whole with God's guidance and the gates of hell will not stand against her. So if anyone even brings the fires of hell against the RC church she will survive and overcome. She has not lasted over 2ooo years for no reason.

[Cleante]

Katy,

Have you researched any of this further? I'll comment on item 17 on your copy-and-paste list.

"17. Veneration of cross, images, relics authorized A.D. 786"

This is referring to the Seventh Ecumenical Council, the Second Council of Nicea, which is celebrated as the Triumph of Orthodoxy in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Christians were already venerating the cross and icons way before 787 AD. In fact, this council arose because iconoclasts, those who wished to get rid of icons, began destroying them and were teaching that the use of the cross and icons was wrong.

This was primarily an Eastern phenomenon. I believe there were only two Western ( Catholic ) bishops in attendance.

Here is the Creed of the Seventh Ecumenical Council.

""As the sacred and life-giving cross is everywhere set up as a symbol, so also should the images of Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary, the holy angels, as well as those of the saints and other pious and holy men be embodied in the manufacture of sacred vessels, tapestries, vestments, etc., and exhibited on the walls of churches, in the homes, and in all conspicuous places, by the roadside and everywhere, to be revered by all who might see them. For the more they are contemplated, the more they move to fervent memory of their prototypes. Therefore, it is proper to accord to them a fervent and reverent adoration, not, however, the veritable worship which, according to our faith, belongs to the Divine Being alone — for the honor accorded to the image passes over to its prototype, and whoever adores the image adores in it the reality of what is there represented."

I know you'll most likely disagree with the Seventh Ecumenical Council but it is worth to do extra research instead of accepting things at face value. One, the date was wrong. Two, it was mostly an Eastern Church issue (Eastern Orthodox now). Three, Christians were already venerating the cross and icons before 787AD.

[Scotth1960]

[quote=Katy-follower;505414]Also, here some other stuff I've found...

Dear Katy-follower, Thanks for your words below, which basically contain some of the truth. However, if the Church is not vested in just one fallible man, the pope, neither is it diffused equally among many fallible men, the Protestants, with each man as his own pope, his own personal vicar with Christ, who is justified individually in a personal "born again" experience that really requires no church at all, just oneself alone with the Bible, and really, as a logical extension of this "faith alone" belief, no need for baptism or any other sacraments.
For more on the fallacy of papism, see:
THE MYTH OF PAPAL INFALLIBILITY. by Rev. Fr. Marc Auer. (1990). Buffalo, NY: The Cenacle/ Liberty, TN: The Saint John of Kronstadt Press.
For more on the fallacy of protestantism, of Luther and the other reformers: See:
Schaeffer, Frank. (2002). Dancing Alone: The Quest for Orthodox Faith in the Age of False Religions. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Press
God bless us in Christ Jesus: Amen. In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington


THE TRUE CHURCH

The Roman Catholic Church claims to be God's true Church and all members are to promise obedience to the Bishop of Rome, whom she claims is successor to Saint Peter, Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic Church is built on the assumption that in Matthew 16:13-19 Jesus appointed Peter the first pope and so founded His Church and established the papacy. If this is true, then all true Christians must become Catholic, if it is false, the whole Catholic religion is false and cultic and no true Christians could be identified with such a system. We must, then, search the Scriptures in order to know what is true. The Scriptures are not merely the writings of men, "But holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). "All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproving, for correcting, for instructing in justice; that the man of God may be perfect, equipped for every good work: (2 Timothy 3:16-17). "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words (the Bible) shall not pass away" (Matthew 24:35). Both Scripture and history testify to the authenticity, reliability, efficiency, and sufficiency of the Bible. Though some translations are better than others, most are reliable enough for general study.

When Jesus, in Matthew 16:18, said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" He used the demonstrative "this" (taute), pointing to Peter's confession, "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God" as the rock. Jesus said, "Thou are Peter (petros, a stone - all believers are stones (1 Peter 2:5 and Ephesians 2:21), and upon this rock (petra, a huge rock foundation - the confession that Jesus is the Christ), I will build my church". He did not promise to build His Church upon Peter. Jesus would not have trusted such a precious possession as His Church to the leadership of even one fallible man much less a whole succession of them. The pope of Rome is called the Vicar of the Son of God (Vicarius Filii Dei). In the Bible we find that the Holy Spirit, not a pope, was sent to take the place of Jesus on earth. That is what Vicar means. The Holy Spirit was given to guide us into all truth (John 16:7-15) and the Scriptures were given for teaching, for reproving, for correction, and for instruction (2 Timothy 3:16). Christ did not leave His Church to human leadership. Jesus Himself is still the Head of His Church. He speaks to us through His infallible Word, the Holy Scriptures, by His ever present and infallible Holy Spirit.

Let us remember that Christ is the Rock and only Head of the Church (1 Corinthians 3:11). For other foundation no one can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Christ Jesus.


I Corinthians 10:4. The rock was Christ.

Ephesians 1:22,23. Head over all the Church.

Ephesians 2:20. Christ Jesus... the chief corner stone.


Around thirty-four times in the Old Testament God is call a Rock or the Rock of Israel. You see, the Bible clearly teaches that when Jesus founded His Church, He was to be the only Head, the Holy Spirit the Vicar and Guide, and the Bible the only authority for faith and practice. All true Christians constitute THE TRUE CHURCH (those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, who believe and obey Christ's teachings). True believers were called "Christians", not "Catholics".


Acts 11:26 Disciples were first called Christians.

Acts 26:28 Persuade me to become a Christian.

I Peter 4:16 Suffer as a Christian


There were no Roman Catholics until Christianity was merged with paganism into a state religion around 315 A.D. The true Christians obeyed God's Word, they never joined in the pagan corruption. The gates of hell have never prevailed against the true believers, they are few, their way is narrow, they would rather suffer martyrdom than compromise the Word of God or deny their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



THE POPE

The Pope is called "Our Holy Father". See encyclical letter of Pope Leo XIII in the Douay Version of the Bible. He is also called "Our Most Holy Lord", Pope Pius X. See Cardinals Oath. Moreri, a famous historian said, "To make war against the Pope is to make war against God, seeing the Pope is God and God is the Pope". Decius said, "The Pope can do all things God can do". Pope Leo XIII said of himself, "The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God himself." Pope Pius X said, "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ himself hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who speaks." Pope Pius XI once declared, "You know that I am the Holy Father, the representative of God on earth, the Vicar of Christ, which means that I am God on the earth." All this is blasphemy.


Isaiah 44:8 Is there a God besides me?

Matthew 23:9 Call no one on earth your father.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord.

Philippians 2:11 Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

I Peter 5:3 Nor yet as lording it over your charges.

I Peter 5:1-4 I, your fellow-presbyter.


Peter called himself a presbyter (pastor), not a pope. He refused honor (Acts 10:25,26) saying "Stand up for I myself also am a man". The apostles argued regarding who was greatest in the kingdom (Matthew 18:1) which indicates that even they did not accept Peter as head of the Church. The wealth and power of the Roman Popes could have come to Peter or any of the apostles. They had charisma, they could heal and raise the dead and perform many other miracles. They could have accumulated gold and land and conquering armies, but they gave away all that was placed at their feet (Acts 4:37, 3:6). They rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 5:41). How could anyone be so naive as to think that the papacy evolved out of such humility and simplicity. The office of Pope is of pagan origin and cannot in any way be substantiated in Scripture. Because of the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit, such an office is not necessary or even desirable.


THE PRIESTHOOD

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus Christ ordained the twelve apostles to the priesthood at the Last Supper and that the powers of the priesthood were handed down during the past two thousand years. This teaching is clearly contrary to the Word of God.

In the Old Testament the work of Christ was prefigured under the three offices of prophet, priest and king. The nation of Israel had each office. With the coming of Christ each of these offices found its fulfillment in Him. Thus in the New Testament there is no need for a human sacrificing priesthood.


John 19:30. It is consummated.

I Timothy 2:5. There is one God, and one Mediator...Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:24. Because he continues forever, has an everlasting (non-transferable, intransmissible) priesthood.

Hebrews 7:25. He lives always to make intercession.

Hebrews 7:27. He does not need to offer sacrifices daily.

Hebrews 9:12. Having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10. We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I Corinthians 12:28. God indeed has placed some in the Church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers...(no mention of sacramental priests).

Ephesians 4:11. He Himself gave some men as apostles, and some as prophets, others again as evangelists, and others as pastors and teachers...(again no mention of sacramental priests).

I Peter 5:1-3. I, your fellow-presbyter and witness...(Nothing about being a priest).


The office of priest is not the same as minister. The concept of a mediating, sacrificing priesthood originated and developed under Cyprian, the theological authority in the West until the time of Augustine, and was part of the merger of paganism with Christianity. Nowhere in the Scriptures will one find evidence of a mediating, sacrificing priesthood after Christ.


THE MASS

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Mass is the unbloody sacrifice of the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It also teaches that the Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross. Both are against God's teaching.

Hebrews 7:27. He died once for all.

Hebrews 9:11-15. He entered once for all.

Hebrews 9:26. Once for all.

Hebrews 9:28. Christ offered once.

Hebrews 10:10. Once for all.

Hebrews 10:11,12. One sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:14. For by one offering.

Hebrews 10:15-20. There is no longer offering for sin.


If Christ is offered again by Roman Catholic priests as they claim, then the above Scriptures are not true. There are more than 100,000 Masses said all over the world every day. Jesus suffers the terrible agony of Calvary at least 100,000 times every twenty-four hours instead of "once for all" as the Scriptures teach. We must believe the Scriptures. If we truly love the Lord Jesus Christ and seek to follow His Word, we will have no regard for the teaching that the bread and wine are "changed" into the body and blood of Christ and then presented to God as a sacrifice by which God is appeased and atonement o sin is made. When Jesus said, "This is my body" or "blood", He did not "change" the substance, but was explaining that He is the one "represented" by the Passover bread and wine. Jesus did not say touto gignetai, this has become or is turned into, but touto esti, which can only mean this represents or stands for. Just as the Passover was a remembrance, so is Communion of the Lord's Supper a remembrance until He comes. The Roman Church, in advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation, departs from the literal sense of Scripture. May we be able to say with the Apostle Paul: "We at least, are not, as many others, adulterating the Word of God." (2 Corinthians 2:17)



CONFESSION OR THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that her priests exercise the power of forgiving sins by hearing confession of sins and granting pardon for them as ministers of God and in His name.

This teaching is not from the Bible.


Mark 2:7. Who can forgive sins, but only God.

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other.

Acts 8:12. Repent...and pray to God. (Peter did not hear his confession and forgive him, but said, "pray to God".)

I John 1:7. The Blood of Jesus Christ...cleanses us from all sin.

I John 1:9. If we acknowledge our sins. (To God, not to a priest - automatic confession and absolution.)

I John 2:1. If anyone sins we have an advocate (Jesus) with the Father.


Throughout the Bible remission of sin and salvation are connected with faith in Christ, nowhere with priestly absolution. In order to support her tribunal upon earth, the Roman Catholic Church mis-interprets Matthew 16:19, "I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven". Also Matthew 18:18, "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". And John 20:23, "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained". First of all, the "keys of the kingdom" refers to the authority to proclaim the terms of salvation in Christ. This is the privilege and duty of all Christian believers. The authority to bind and loose is first and foremost the commission to proclaim the gospel which liberates those who believe it, and consigns to bondage those who reject it. The Roman Catholic Church misinterprets this text in order to support the practice of confessing sins to a priest. The Biblical context clearly indicates, however, that the words of Matthew 16:19, 18:18, and John 20:23 were not only spoken to the apostles but also to those believers who were with them. Christian ministers are to preach repentance, but nothing is said about hearing confession and the granting of absolution (forgiveness of sins).



JUSTIFICATION

The most important question pertinent to religion is, "how may a man obtain the forgiveness of (his) sins?" Here is where the most significant deviation occurs. The Bible teaches that "faith" secures the remission of sins (Acts 10:43) while Roman Catholicism teaches that the "sacraments" (in addition to faith) do. We must be very precise here for the Apostle Paul said that any different way of salvation, even if given by an angel, would be accursed. Jesus said that the seed sown on good ground "understood" the way of salvation (Matthew 13:23). We urge you to embrace the Lord's way and let go of the former way. The Scripture says, "Having been justified therefore by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). One Catholic writer is defending his Church made a statement that we all should heed. He said that if faith alone saves "the whole traditional structure of Christianity is a needless empty show, the Mass, the sacraments, the sacrificing priesthood, the teaching hierarchy, the papacy, practices of penance, asceticism, habits of self-restraint, prayer. Nay, these things are a hindrance, an enormous sham, a terrible system of lies, and therefore to be utterly swept away and destroyed." Philip Hughes, A POPULAR HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, p. 176. True Biblical Christianity rejects the notion that salvation is a moral process, that the sinner is "made" just, or "works out" his salvation by his own deeds.

Heed what God teaches in the following texts:


John 3:3. Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

John 5:24. He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has life everlasting, and does not come to judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other.

Romans 4:5. but to him who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the impious, his faith is credited to him.

Romans 4:6. David declares the blessedness of the man to whom God credits justice without works.

Romans 3:28. We reckon that a man is justified by faith independently of the works of the Law.

Romans 5:1. Having been justified therefore by faith.

Romans 10:3. Ignorant of the justice of God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to the justice of God.

Titus 3:5. Not by reason of good works that we did ourselves, but according to his mercy...

[Scotth1960]

Originally Posted by Hearer

well I have two comments:
1) I am ecumenical, because I believe by the HS in the first two articles of the westminster shorter catechism (protestant) BUT
2) The RC is the church as a whole with God's guidance and the gates of hell will not stand against her. So if anyone even brings the fires of hell against the RC church she will survive and overcome. She has not lasted over 2ooo years for no reason.

Dear Hearer.
John 15:26 proves the Roman church is in heresy and schism, since Christ says "who proceeds from the Father", whereas the popes of Rome insist on "who proceeds from the Father and the Son", thus falsifying and contradicting the very blessed and All-Holy LORD Jesus Christ Himself! The church of Rome is the Church of King Charlemagne. Charlemagne even falsely accused the Eastern Orthodox Church of deleting the words "and the Son" from the original Nicene Creed! Such ignorance, people who say, not knowing any better, "who proceeds from the Father and the Son". As a Lutheran, I was once involved in this heresy. But no more. God bless us everyone. Amen.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

[Scotth1960]

[quote=Katy-follower;505414]Also, here some other stuff I've found...


THE TRUE CHURCH

The Roman Catholic Church claims to be God's true Church and all members are to promise obedience to the Bishop of Rome, whom she claims is successor to Saint Peter, Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic Church is built on the assumption that in Matthew 16:13-19 Jesus appointed Peter the first pope and so founded His Church and established the papacy. If this is true, then all true Christians must become Catholic, if it is false, the whole Catholic religion is false and cultic and no true Christians could be identified with such a system. We must, then, search the Scriptures in order to know what is true. The Scriptures are not merely the writings of men, "But holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). "All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproving, for correcting, for instructing in justice; that the man of God may be perfect, equipped for every good work: (2 Timothy 3:16-17). "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words (the Bible) shall not pass away" (Matthew 24:35). Both Scripture and history testify to the authenticity, reliability, efficiency, and sufficiency of the Bible. Though some translations are better than others, most are reliable enough for general study.

When Jesus, in Matthew 16:18, said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" He used the demonstrative "this" (taute), pointing to Peter's confession, "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God" as the rock. Jesus said, "Thou are Peter (petros, a stone - all believers are stones (1 Peter 2:5 and Ephesians 2:21), and upon this rock (petra, a huge rock foundation - the confession that Jesus is the Christ), I will build my church". He did not promise to build His Church upon Peter. Jesus would not have trusted such a precious possession as His Church to the leadership of even one fallible man much less a whole succession of them. The pope of Rome is called the Vicar of the Son of God (Vicarius Filii Dei). In the Bible we find that the Holy Spirit, not a pope, was sent to take the place of Jesus on earth. That is what Vicar means. The Holy Spirit was given to guide us into all truth (John 16:7-15) and the Scriptures were given for teaching, for reproving, for correction, and for instruction (2 Timothy 3:16). Christ did not leave His Church to human leadership. Jesus Himself is still the Head of His Church. He speaks to us through His infallible Word, the Holy Scriptures, by His ever present and infallible Holy Spirit.

Let us remember that Christ is the Rock and only Head of the Church (1 Corinthians 3:11). For other foundation no one can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Christ Jesus.


I Corinthians 10:4. The rock was Christ.

Ephesians 1:22,23. Head over all the Church.

Ephesians 2:20. Christ Jesus... the chief corner stone.


Around thirty-four times in the Old Testament God is call a Rock or the Rock of Israel. You see, the Bible clearly teaches that when Jesus founded His Church, He was to be the only Head, the Holy Spirit the Vicar and Guide, and the Bible the only authority for faith and practice. All true Christians constitute THE TRUE CHURCH (those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, who believe and obey Christ's teachings). True believers were called "Christians", not "Catholics".


Acts 11:26 Disciples were first called Christians.

Acts 26:28 Persuade me to become a Christian.

I Peter 4:16 Suffer as a Christian


There were no Roman Catholics until Christianity was merged with paganism into a state religion around 315 A.D. The true Christians obeyed God's Word, they never joined in the pagan corruption. The gates of hell have never prevailed against the true believers, they are few, their way is narrow, they would rather suffer martyrdom than compromise the Word of God or deny their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



THE POPE

The Pope is called "Our Holy Father". See encyclical letter of Pope Leo XIII in the Douay Version of the Bible. He is also called "Our Most Holy Lord", Pope Pius X. See Cardinals Oath. Moreri, a famous historian said, "To make war against the Pope is to make war against God, seeing the Pope is God and God is the Pope". Decius said, "The Pope can do all things God can do". Pope Leo XIII said of himself, "The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God himself." Pope Pius X said, "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ himself hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who speaks." Pope Pius XI once declared, "You know that I am the Holy Father, the representative of God on earth, the Vicar of Christ, which means that I am God on the earth." All this is blasphemy.


Isaiah 44:8 Is there a God besides me?

Matthew 23:9 Call no one on earth your father.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord.

Philippians 2:11 Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

I Peter 5:3 Nor yet as lording it over your charges.

I Peter 5:1-4 I, your fellow-presbyter.


Peter called himself a presbyter (pastor), not a pope. He refused honor (Acts 10:25,26) saying "Stand up for I myself also am a man". The apostles argued regarding who was greatest in the kingdom (Matthew 18:1) which indicates that even they did not accept Peter as head of the Church. The wealth and power of the Roman Popes could have come to Peter or any of the apostles. They had charisma, they could heal and raise the dead and perform many other miracles. They could have accumulated gold and land and conquering armies, but they gave away all that was placed at their feet (Acts 4:37, 3:6). They rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 5:41). How could anyone be so naive as to think that the papacy evolved out of such humility and simplicity. The office of Pope is of pagan origin and cannot in any way be substantiated in Scripture. Because of the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit, such an office is not necessary or even desirable.


THE PRIESTHOOD

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus Christ ordained the twelve apostles to the priesthood at the Last Supper and that the powers of the priesthood were handed down during the past two thousand years. This teaching is clearly contrary to the Word of God.

In the Old Testament the work of Christ was prefigured under the three offices of prophet, priest and king. The nation of Israel had each office. With the coming of Christ each of these offices found its fulfillment in Him. Thus in the New Testament there is no need for a human sacrificing priesthood.


John 19:30. It is consummated.

I Timothy 2:5. There is one God, and one Mediator...Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:24. Because he continues forever, has an everlasting (non-transferable, intransmissible) priesthood.

Hebrews 7:25. He lives always to make intercession.

Hebrews 7:27. He does not need to offer sacrifices daily.

Hebrews 9:12. Having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10. We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I Corinthians 12:28. God indeed has placed some in the Church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers...(no mention of sacramental priests).

Ephesians 4:11. He Himself gave some men as apostles, and some as prophets, others again as evangelists, and others as pastors and teachers...(again no mention of sacramental priests).

I Peter 5:1-3. I, your fellow-presbyter and witness...(Nothing about being a priest).


The office of priest is not the same as minister. The concept of a mediating, sacrificing priesthood originated and developed under Cyprian, the theological authority in the West until the time of Augustine, and was part of the merger of paganism with Christianity. Nowhere in the Scriptures will one find evidence of a mediating, sacrificing priesthood after Christ.


THE MASS

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Mass is the unbloody sacrifice of the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It also teaches that the Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross. Both are against God's teaching.

Hebrews 7:27. He died once for all.

Hebrews 9:11-15. He entered once for all.

Hebrews 9:26. Once for all.

Hebrews 9:28. Christ offered once.

Hebrews 10:10. Once for all.

Hebrews 10:11,12. One sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:14. For by one offering.

Hebrews 10:15-20. There is no longer offering for sin.


If Christ is offered again by Roman Catholic priests as they claim, then the above Scriptures are not true. There are more than 100,000 Masses said all over the world every day. Jesus suffers the terrible agony of Calvary at least 100,000 times every twenty-four hours instead of "once for all" as the Scriptures teach. We must believe the Scriptures. If we truly love the Lord Jesus Christ and seek to follow His Word, we will have no regard for the teaching that the bread and wine are "changed" into the body and blood of Christ and then presented to God as a sacrifice by which God is appeased and atonement o sin is made. When Jesus said, "This is my body" or "blood", He did not "change" the substance, but was explaining that He is the one "represented" by the Passover bread and wine. Jesus did not say touto gignetai, this has become or is turned into, but touto esti, which can only mean this represents or stands for. Just as the Passover was a remembrance, so is Communion of the Lord's Supper a remembrance until He comes. The Roman Church, in advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation, departs from the literal sense of Scripture. May we be able to say with the Apostle Paul: "We at least, are not, as many others, adulterating the Word of God." (2 Corinthians 2:17)



CONFESSION OR THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that her priests exercise the power of forgiving sins by hearing confession of sins and granting pardon for them as ministers of God and in His name.

This teaching is not from the Bible.


Mark 2:7. Who can forgive sins, but only God.

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other.

Acts 8:12. Repent...and pray to God. (Peter did not hear his confession and forgive him, but said, "pray to God".)

I John 1:7. The Blood of Jesus Christ...cleanses us from all sin.

I John 1:9. If we acknowledge our sins. (To God, not to a priest - automatic confession and absolution.)

I John 2:1. If anyone sins we have an advocate (Jesus) with the Father.


Throughout the Bible remission of sin and salvation are connected with faith in Christ, nowhere with priestly absolution. In order to support her tribunal upon earth, the Roman Catholic Church mis-interprets Matthew 16:19, "I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven". Also Matthew 18:18, "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". And John 20:23, "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained". First of all, the "keys of the kingdom" refers to the authority to proclaim the terms of salvation in Christ. This is the privilege and duty of all Christian believers. The authority to bind and loose is first and foremost the commission to proclaim the gospel which liberates those who believe it, and consigns to bondage those who reject it. The Roman Catholic Church misinterprets this text in order to support the practice of confessing sins to a priest. The Biblical context clearly indicates, however, that the words of Matthew 16:19, 18:18, and John 20:23 were not only spoken to the apostles but also to those believers who were with them. Christian ministers are to preach repentance, but nothing is said about hearing confession and the granting of absolution (forgiveness of sins).



JUSTIFICATION

The most important question pertinent to religion is, "how may a man obtain the

forgiveness of (his) sins?" Here is where the most significant deviation occurs. The Bible

teaches that "faith" secures the remission of sins (Acts 10:43) while Roman

Catholicism teaches that the "sacraments" (in addition to faith) do. We must be very

precise here for the Apostle Paul said that any different way of salvation, even if given

by an angel, would be accursed. Jesus said that the seed sown on good ground

"understood" the way of salvation (Matthew 13:23). We urge you to embrace the

Lord's way and let go of the former way. The Scripture says, "Having been justified

therefore by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans

5:1). One Catholic writer is defending his Church made a statement that we all should

heed. He said that if faith alone saves "the whole traditional structure of Christianity is a

needless empty show, the Mass, the sacraments, the sacrificing priesthood, the teaching

hierarchy, the papacy, practices of penance, asceticism, habits of self-restraint, prayer.

Nay, these things are a hindrance, an enormous sham, a terrible system of lies, and

therefore to be utterly swept away and destroyed." Philip Hughes, A POPULAR HISTORY

OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, p. 176. True Biblical Christianity rejects the notion that

salvation is a moral process, that the sinner is "made" just, or "works out" his salvation

by his own deeds.

Dear Katy-follower. That is false. Here is what the Bible says: James 2:24: "You see

then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only" (NKJV). THE SYNOD OF

JERUSALEM, 1672 AD THE CONFESSION OF DOSITHEUS DECREE IX. "We believe no

one to be saved without faith. And by faith we mean the right notion that is in us

concerning God and divine things, which, working by love, that is to say, by [observing]

the Divine commandments, justifieth us with Christ, and without this [faith] it is

impossible to please God." AMS Press, 1969; page 122.

God bless you in Christ Jesus. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington


Heed what God teaches in the following texts:


John 3:3. Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

John 5:24. He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has life everlasting, and does not come to judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other.

Romans 4:5. but to him who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the impious, his faith is credited to him.

Romans 4:6. David declares the blessedness of the man to whom God credits justice without works.

Romans 3:28. We reckon that a man is justified by faith independently of the works of the Law.

Romans 5:1. Having been justified therefore by faith.

Romans 10:3. Ignorant of the justice of God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to the justice of God.

Titus 3:5. Not by reason of good works that we did ourselves, but according to his mercy...

[Abiding]

Wow Im sure glad im just a puny little believer. All i get criticised for is my coffee.

[Consumed]

I keep asking get no answer, what was so wrong with the church in it's first 350yrs of changing the world which it did that warranted the start of choking it full of what has been a never ending watering down of the true gospel, the message of the Good news. Council decree this that the other, whoopee just another stumbling block on sticking with the message of the good news.
I know it is said because of this that the other it was formally and diligently put together the way to practice the religion, but honestly I don't think it was ever meant to be a religion but a way of life in truth and spirit of His love for us. God started with ten commandments that was too hard for us and gave us Jesus who made it easy for us by giving us two commandments, love God love thy neighbor which is in essence all 10 commandments, having trouble keeping the two, my grace is sufficient to see you thru. Wow I hate religion , God have mercy on me if I'm ignorant to it all.
Where's the love and grace and doing good when we know what is good and don't do it. His goodness isn't found in decrees, councils liturgies relics doing this that the other, His kingdom is within us to love as He does. Jesus said the kingdom is at hand, closer than we think, we just push it aside best of times by not living it ourselves for and by Him.