Signs

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2011

Why do christians need signs? Jesus and the apostles did many signs and miracles. of course they were starting a new movement, this new movement is called the church. Scripture is full of examples of when things started a new, many signs were given to show this new things was from God (Moses and Jews) Christ and the church, the apostles and the church) but it is also full of examples of when those things were well established, signs and miracles slowed down greatly and even ceased (there was a 400 year time period between Malachi and John the baptist when there were no prophets.) Yet no one would believe that no one on earth was saved in that time. (as the NT church went on, we see sings and miracles getting less and less)

Why do Christians need to see signs? is their faith in God week? do they not trust God? Are they looking for an "experience" and not a relationship?

Jesus said a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and non will be given to it but the sign of Jonah. I believe we are that generation. people are more worried about signs and wonders than they are the important things of God.

Cobus · Jul 29, 2011

EG do you recon to chase out an evil spirit is a sign, do you think healing a blind is a sign? define sign? Do you think baptism with the Holy Spirit is a sign?

Grandpa · Jul 29, 2011

I asked for spiritual gifts for about two months. I thought I was supposed to. I thought this would be how to be more like Jesus. To change into His image from glory to glory. The bible says if you do ask for spiritual gifts to ask for prophecy, so I specifically asked for that one. Well one day I was praying and I was told (it was put into my spirit, I'm not sure how to describe this) Seek Ye first the kingdom of God and all these will be added unto you. Well I figured that meant Heaven but I wasn't 100% sure so I looked it up. I found out the Kingdom of God is righteousness and peace and love. Then I found out these were fruits of the spirit. So the Lord was more concerned that I look for the fruits of the spirit than the gifts of the spirit. I wonder if this is true for all. We should first search for peace and joy and love, and then the gifts will follow. It seems to me if the gifts aren't used in love they could be dangerous.

God Bless You

Hearer · Jul 29, 2011

what signs do the prophets give to teach us a lesson? We need a lesson taught us. Like Ezekiel taght the signs of siege against Jerusalem and of exile. He taught the sign of the melting pot and of the crude pictures which represented disgusitng activities.

What are signs for today?

Arrogant nations losing their economies? Wars which cannot be won? earthquakes and nuclear threats?

What sign does the prophet have to show he has a sign to prove any of these?

I say we have the sign of a cloud being blown away by the Lord. And sitting on that cloud is the godess of victory and success blown away too. Woosh there she goes.

Abiding · Jul 29, 2011

Grandpa said:

I asked for spiritual gifts for about two months. I thought I was supposed to. I thought this would be how to be more like Jesus. To change into His image from glory to glory. The bible says if you do ask for spiritual gifts to ask for prophecy, so I specifically asked for that one. Well one day I was praying and I was told (it was put into my spirit, I'm not sure how to describe this) Seek Ye first the kingdom of God and all these will be added unto you. Well I figured that meant Heaven but I wasn't 100% sure so I looked it up. I found out the Kingdom of God is righteousness and peace and love. Then I found out these were fruits of the spirit. So the Lord was more concerned that I look for the fruits of the spirit than the gifts of the spirit. I wonder if this is true for all. We should first search for peace and joy and love, and then the gifts will follow. It seems to me if the gifts aren't used in love they could be dangerous.

God Bless You

Amen, Jesus never said youll know then by signs or gifts. But these fruits will be useful to others. There
is nothing more powerful than a peaceful joyful loving person.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2011

Cobus said:

This can be done by anyone. And it does not need to be done in front of a whole church where man gets credit. and no it is not a sign, if we are gods people we do not need a sign, we just have faith in Gods powor!

Never seen it done. Not saying it can't be done. But if a bunch of people prayed and someone got their eye site bight I am not against it. A lady member of our church had emphasima and two spots on her lungs, and told there was no cure. A bunch of us prayed for a few weeks. A month later we were told she went to Doctor and it all was gone (she did not even know we prayed for her until after she found out she was healed) This was so powerful. But not a sign. Just God doing his work.

signs were done when a bunch of people gathered together and miracles were performed for them. They were usefull when new things happen (like jesus starting his ministry. or the church starting and spreading in gentile pagan nations) other than thet they really have no purpose.

People coming to Jesus came just for the signs, they did not come to really hear him, or learn from him. That is why Jesus said these signs will not be given. It takes away from his true work, the work of the church, and makes people focus on more important things.

No because the baptism of the HS is a spiritual thing which happens to a believer the moment they are saved. It is where the person is cleansed of his sin and made white as snow as the HS baptizes them in the death and burial of Christ. then places them into the body of Christ. There is no feeling, no sign that this happens, it just does.

Now during the anointing of the spirit. Sometimes signs were given as people did things. But that was when these signs were needed. See no need today.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2011

Abiding said:

I have experienced God working in me through prophesy. I do not claim to be a prophet. God can do things as he choses. But he does not need me to be a prophet. he can speak through anyone. and does!

other than this. amen to both of your posts

silverwind · Jul 29, 2011

The only "signs" we can count on are those that reveal HIS GLORY. Signs in the NT were there to do just that, to glorify HIM, to lead others to him, to open blind eyes.
Do we see that happening today?
Jesus will be looking for faith when he returns. Not how charismatic and emotional hippedyhoppedy christians have become. Faith like a child is all that He wants. Grace>>>>>>Faith!
Satan wants to confuse the masses by signs and wonders, making them think it is "of God". At the same time he is deceiving many.
In this day and age we need descernment more than ever.

Here's a real-life story that really happened: A gunman walked into a hair dressing salon to hold up the cashier. The owner of the salon was a Christian and immediately knew what to do. He told the gunman "in the name of Jesus Christ" to leave. It stunned the gunman and he left. There is such power in the name of Jesus. It is by faith we can cast out demons and numb the dangerous. This is faith. This is "signs". This is all we need. This is how HE is GLORIFIED.

SW

loveschild · Jul 29, 2011

Luke 21:25
And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [ without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring ( the echo) of the tossing of the sea,
Luke 21:24-26 (in Context) Luke 21 (Whole Chapter)
John 2:11
This, the first of His signs (miracles, wonderworks), Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory [by it He displayed His greatness and His power openly], and His disciples believed in Him [adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Him].
John 2:10-12 (in Context) John 2 (Whole Chapter)
John 2:23
But when He was in Jerusalem during the Passover Feast, many believed in His name [identified themselves with His party] after seeing His signs (wonders, miracles) which He was doing.
John 2:22-24 (in Context) John 2 (Whole Chapter)
John 3:2
Who came to Jesus at night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know and are certain that You have come from God [as] a Teacher; for no one can do these signs (these wonderworks, these miracles--and produce the proofs) that You do unless God is with him.
John 3:1-3 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
John 4:48
Then Jesus said to him, Unless you see signs and miracles happen, you [people] never will believe (trust, have faith) at all.
John 4:47-49 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter)
John 6:2
And a great crowd was following Him because they had seen the signs (miracles) which He [continually] performed upon those who were sick.
John 6:1-3 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
John 6:26
Jesus answered them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you have been searching for Me, not because you saw the miracles and signs but because you were fed with the loaves and were filled and satisfied.
John 6:25-27 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
John 7:31
And besides, many of the multitude believed in Him [adhered to Him, trusted in Him, relied on Him]. And they kept saying, When the Christ comes, will He do [can He be expected to do] more miracles and produce more proofs and signs than what this Man has done?
John 7:30-32 (in Context) John 7 (Whole Chapter)
John 9:16
Then some of the Pharisees said, This Man [Jesus] is not from God, because He does not observe the Sabbath. But others said, How can a man who is a sinner (a bad man) do such signs and miracles? So there was a difference of opinion among them.
John 9:15-17 (in Context) John 9 (Whole Chapter)
John 11:47
So the chief priests and Pharisees called a meeting of the council (the Sanhedrin) and said, What are we to do? For this Man performs many signs (evidences, miracles).
John 11:46-48 (in Context) John 11 (Whole Chapter)
John 20:30
There are also many other signs and miracles which Jesus performed in the presence of the disciples which are not written in this book.
John 20:29-31 (in Context) John 20 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 2:19
And I will show wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth beneath, blood and fire and smoking vapor;
Acts 2:18-20 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 2:22
You men of Israel, listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man accredited and pointed out and shown forth and commended and attested to you by God by the mighty works and [the power of performing] wonders and signs which God worked through Him
in your midst, as you yourselves know--
Acts 2:21-23 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 2:43
And a sense of awe (reverential fear) came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were performed through the apostles (the special messengers).
Acts 2:42-44 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 4:30
While You stretch out Your hand to cure and to perform signs and wonders through the authority and by the power of the name of Your holy Child and Servant Jesus.
Acts 4:29-31 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 5:12
Now by the hands of the apostles (special messengers) numerous and startling signs and wonders were being performed among the people. And by common consent they all met together [at the temple] in the covered porch (walk) called Solomon's.
Acts 5:11-13 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 6:8
Now Stephen, full of grace (divine blessing and favor) and power (strength and ability) worked great wonders and signs (miracles) among the people.
Acts 6:7-9 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 7:36
He it was who led them forth, having worked wonders and signs in Egypt and at the Red Sea and during the forty years in the wilderness (desert).
Acts 7:35-37 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 8:13
Even Simon himself believed [he adhered to, trusted in, and relied on the teaching of Philip], and after being baptized, devoted himself constantly to him. And seeing signs and miracles of great power which were being performed, he was utterly amazed.
Acts 8:12-14 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 14:3
So [Paul and Barnabas] stayed on there for a long time, speaking freely and fearlessly and boldly in the Lord, Who continued to bear testimony to the Word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be performed by their hands.
Acts 14:2-4 (in Context) Acts 14 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Acts 15:12
Then the whole assembly remained silent, and they listened [attentively] as Barnabas and Paul rehearsed what signs and wonders God had performed through them among the Gentiles.
Acts 15:11-13 (in Context) Acts 15 (Whole Chapter)
[*]Romans 15:19
[Even as my preaching has been accompanied] with the power of signs and wonders, [and all of it] by the power of the Holy Spirit. [The result is] that starting from Jerusalem and as far round as Illyricum, I have fully preached the Gospel [faithfully executing, accomplishing, carrying out to the full the good news] of Christ (the Messiah) in its entirety.
Romans 15:18-20 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter)
[*]1 Corinthians 1:22
For while Jews [demandingly] ask for signs and miracles and Greeks pursue philosophy and wisdom,
1 Corinthians 1:21-23 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter)
[*]2 Corinthians 12:12
Indeed, the signs that indicate a [genuine] apostle were performed among you fully and most patiently in miracles and wonders and mighty works.
2 Corinthians 12:11-13 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter)
[*]2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming [of the lawless one, the antichrist] is through the activity and working of Satan and will be attended by great power and with all sorts of [pretended] miracles and signs and delusive marvels--[all of them] lying wonders--
2 Thessalonians 2:8-10 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter)

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Abiding · Jul 29, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

True God can talk through you, a false priest, a lost king,an ass.

wait that did come out right

zone · Jul 29, 2011

silverwind said:

The only "signs" we can count on are those that reveal HIS GLORY. Signs in the NT were there to do just that, to glorify HIM, to lead others to him, to open blind eyes.
Do we see that happening today?
Jesus will be looking for faith when he returns. Not how charismatic and emotional hippedyhoppedy christians have become. Faith like a child is all that He wants. Grace>>>>>>Faith!
Satan wants to confuse the masses by signs and wonders, making them think it is "of God". At the same time he is deceiving many.
In this day and age we need descernment more than ever.

Here's a real-life story that really happened: A gunman walked into a hair dressing salon to hold up the cashier. The owner of the salon was a Christian and immediately knew what to do. He told the gunman "in the name of Jesus Christ" to leave. It stunned the gunman and he left. There is such power in the name of Jesus. It is by faith we can cast out demons and numb the dangerous. This is faith. This is "signs". This is all we need. This is how HE is GLORIFIED.

SW

good post girlfriend.

Cobus · Jul 30, 2011

No because the baptism of the HS is a spiritual thing which happens to a believer the moment they are saved. It is where the person is cleansed of his sin and made white as snow as the HS baptizes them in the death and burial of Christ. then places them into the body of Christ. There is no feeling, no sign that this happens, it just does.

Now during the anointing of the spirit. Sometimes signs were given as people did things. But that was when these signs were needed. See no need today.
[/quote]

EG you know I ask you this to put Jesus first, not me or you. Ok! You and I do not believe the same, and if we use the Word of God and not what some preacher said some day, then we will both believe the same. Why? becasue there is only ONE salvation, and the metod of salvation is for all of us the same. I agree ... the baptism of the HS is a spiritual thing, and it happens the moment a believer is saved.There we agree.. Now you say it is when a person is cleansed of his sin and made white as snow as the HS baptizes them in death and buriel of Christ. Again you are right, and places them into the body of Christ. Again you are right. now we need to see when this happens.. Let us start with this... Let us say I have three sins I LOVE doing. I steal from people, i am a thief. I lie to people all the time. And I love lusting after after woman, and commits adultery in my heart. Two sin is obvious and one is in my heart. One day while I sit in a church, all of a sudden something I do not know what... TELLS me and SHOWS me how wrong it is... Now all of a sudden I want to stop doing that... Ok we both know it is the HS that convinse or reproof me of my sin. And then he also show all the others that is wrong in my life. But it is just like the stealing one needs to be adressed FIRST!.. So when I leave the church, I now made up my mind, I will not steal again... I do not know what else to do, but I know I am not going to steal again... Now.. I leave the church and on my way to my house there is a wallet full of money on a wall. It is the wallet of the man mowing the lawn. He will never see me if i grab the wallet and run. So the oppertunity to steal again is realy there. I really want that money...I NEED that money... But there is that memory of my desision in church fresh in my head. Now there is a struggle in my flesh. One part of me wants to steal the money and there is this one little part that makes me hesitate. For the first time in my life i hesitate at such a great oppertunity...This will be the easiest stel EVER, and I hesitate...Why? Is it becasue the HS is now in me? Am I now baptized with the HS? What if I steal that money? What if i do not, but walk further and go lie to the petrol attendant? And now i have to pass it on to you. Let us look at the tow situations about the money... What if I do not steal the money, and NEVER steal again, in fact, I did not only stop stealing, but I also started a good job and I share my salary with the less fortunate. But I am still a big lier, and a good luster. Am I saved now? Am I baptized with the HS now?Let us just take it up to here.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 30, 2011

Cobus said:

EG you know I ask you this to put Jesus first, not me or you. Ok! You and I do not believe the same, and if we use the Word of God and not what some preacher said some day, then we will both believe the same. Why? becasue there is only ONE salvation, and the metod of salvation is for all of us the same. I agree ... the baptism of the HS is a spiritual thing, and it happens the moment a believer is saved.There we agree.. Now you say it is when a person is cleansed of his sin and made white as snow as the HS baptizes them in death and buriel of Christ. Again you are right, and places them into the body of Christ. Again you are right. now we need to see when this happens.. Let us start with this... Let us say I have three sins I LOVE doing. I steal from people, i am a thief. I lie to people all the time. And I love lusting after after woman, and commits adultery in my heart. Two sin is obvious and one is in my heart. One day while I sit in a church, all of a sudden something I do not know what... TELLS me and SHOWS me how wrong it is... Now all of a sudden I want to stop doing that... Ok we both know it is the HS that convinse or reproof me of my sin. And then he also show all the others that is wrong in my life. But it is just like the stealing one needs to be adressed FIRST!.. So when I leave the church, I now made up my mind, I will not steal again... I do not know what else to do, but I know I am not going to steal again... Now.. I leave the church and on my way to my house there is a wallet full of money on a wall. It is the wallet of the man mowing the lawn. He will never see me if i grab the wallet and run. So the oppertunity to steal again is realy there. I really want that money...I NEED that money... But there is that memory of my desision in church fresh in my head. Now there is a struggle in my flesh. One part of me wants to steal the money and there is this one little part that makes me hesitate. For the first time in my life i hesitate at such a great oppertunity...This will be the easiest stel EVER, and I hesitate...Why? Is it becasue the HS is now in me? Am I now baptized with the HS? What if I steal that money? What if i do not, but walk further and go lie to the petrol attendant? And now i have to pass it on to you. Let us look at the tow situations about the money... What if I do not steal the money, and NEVER steal again, in fact, I did not only stop stealing, but I also started a good job and I share my salary with the less fortunate. But I am still a big lier, and a good luster. Am I saved now? Am I baptized with the HS now?Let us just take it up to here.

1. Baptism of the HS is one act. It is not many acts. and it does not continue. You either have been baptized or you have not.

2. Are we saved by the law?

Answer these two questions and your have answered your own question.

Cobus · Jul 31, 2011

My answer...Yes baptism of the HS is one act, it is when God fills you with the HS, he not only fills you he drench you covers you and surrounds you...You in Him and He in you, but this happens AFTER you FOLLOWED HIM ALL THE WAY OUT OF SIN!!! In another threat... Batism of HS I set this out for you. You say we are baptised and then annointed, I say we are led then filled/baptized... The problem is this... the state we are if we are filled with the Holy Spirit! Can we still do sin if we are annointed in you wording? If you say yes, i disagree. If you say no! I agree. And I ask you are you annointed and when will you be? I think only after you endured to the end of you sinful ways! God cannot annoint a sinner, only saints. We will soon agree i think, because we both want JESUS to be in us! And we both want to be IN JESUS!

Cobus · Jul 31, 2011

Are we saved by law, no our salvation is JESUS and he CANNOT SIN. He takes our place in this body, and that is why this flesh of mine CANNOT sin AFTER I AM SAVED!

Abiding · Aug 1, 2011

More false teaching Cobus, and it will stay a false teaching forever. Until you are filled with the Holyspirit you have zero ability
to care about God let alone become free from sin. Until you are filled with the indwelling Spirit you are under the power of sin over you.
And your dead. Dead cannot produce life, or obedience, any more than it can produce a new moon. Its like you cut out 3 or 4 hard to understand
verses and threw your bible away. Have fun bro because you never come here to learn, just rant about this false doctrine. what a shame.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 2, 2011

Cobus said:

Hmm seems like Paul said that if Christ is in us the spirit is ALIVE because of Christ. But the body remains dead because of sin. If My body is left in sin. I can certainly sin.

What does this have to do about signs anyway.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 2, 2011

I find it amazing none of the so called prophets of the room have responded. Why is it. are they afraid? Can they not refute what I said??

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

Grandpa said:

I asked for spiritual gifts for about two months. I thought I was supposed to. I thought this would be how to be more like Jesus. To change into His image from glory to glory. The bible says if you do ask for spiritual gifts to ask for prophecy, so I specifically asked for that one. Well one day I was praying and I was told (it was put into my spirit, I'm not sure how to describe this) Seek Ye first the kingdom of God and all these will be added unto you. Well I figured that meant Heaven but I wasn't 100% sure so I looked it up. I found out the Kingdom of God is righteousness and peace and love. Then I found out these were fruits of the spirit. So the Lord was more concerned that I look for the fruits of the spirit than the gifts of the spirit. I wonder if this is true for all. We should first search for peace and joy and love, and then the gifts will follow. It seems to me if the gifts aren't used in love they could be dangerous.

God Bless You

Very good post Grandpa

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

Refute what you said....lol, how about ignore it. You have no clue as to what truth is.

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