the transfiguration

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thefightinglamb

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#1
So what is up with it...Were Elijah and Moses really there? Was it a vision??? What was it? What I mean, is was Moses resurrected, was he a ghost, a spirit, what was he? We all know Elijah was taken into heaven, so he is easier to understand...but Moses?!?...were they both present in the flesh?

I am willing to bet I have the most interesting theory on this passage...but I want to see what you all say...

God bless
tony

ps.and if anyone guesses my interpretation they get a candy bar...
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#2
Here's another question, given that Peter and the others had never met Elijah or Moses before, how did they know it was Elijah and Moses?
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#3
I"m sorry I know that they are different translations so I have to ask where did it say that there" they were in the flesh"
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#4
I dont think it says they were in the flesh, maybe they were in spirit form.
 
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thefightinglamb

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#5
[this comes from a online Bible Study I once formed:]

To: HIDDEN MANNA
[I am going to attempt to explain "some" of the mystery of the transfiguration; I am going to begin with Old Testament background information. Skip the Old Testament briefing if you know it; I am going to try to suggest just as Jesus's sacrifice transcends all time, so does the transfiguration; the chosen disciples actually saw some of the events either taking place or about to take place in the eternal mystery of God; notice the three disciples that are in the transfiguration, Peter, James, and John all directly write parts of the New Testament (is this where they personally recieve the new writings?; Mathew I am not so sure how to deal with, but all of the authors of the gospels besides John are kind of obscure]

Exodus 3: 1-22; 4: 1-17
[I am not writing all of this out; look it up...The burning bush on the mountain...the mission of Moses (to free the people from their oppressors)...The divine name revealed (Yahweh, Jesus is revealed)...Moses receives miraculous powers from God...Aaron becomes the mouthpiece of Moses (just as Jesus is the mouthpiece of God)...]

Exodus 19: 9abc, 18-24
Yahweh then said to Moses, "Look, I shall come to you in a dense cloud so that the people will hear when I speak to you and believe you ever after..."[Exodus 20: 1-17 is the ten commandments revealed to Moses] Seeing the thunder pealing, the lightening flashing, the trumpet blasting and the mountain smoking, the people were all terrified and kept their distance. "Speak to us yourself," they said to Moses, "and we will obey; but do not let God speak to us, or we will die." Moses siad to the people, "Do not be afraid; GOd has come to test you, so that your fear of him, being always in your mind, may keep you from sinning. So the people kept their distance while Moses approached the dark cloud where God was. Yahweh said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites this, "You have seen for yourselves how I have spoken to you from heaven."

Exodus 24: 15-18
Moses then went up the mountain [to receive the stone tablets]. Cloud covered the mountain. The glory of Yahweh rested on Mount Sinai and the cloud covered it for six days. On the seventh day Yahweh called to Moses from inside the cloud. TO the watching Israelites, the glory of Yahweh looked like a devouring fire on the mountain top. Moses went right into the cloud and went on up the mountain. Moses stayed on the mountain for forty days and forty nights.

[I am not writing too many more verses straight out from Exodus, but here is a summary of more verses if you don't want to look them up:

Exodus 32
[the people make the golden calf...Yahweh threatens to destroy them...Moses pleads to pacify God's wrath...Moses breaks the tablets "Moses turned and came down the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hands, tablets inscribed on both sides, inscribed on the front and on the back. The tablets were the work of God, and the writing on them was God's writing, engraved on the tablets" (15-16). (A symbol of God's writing in Jesus' body being broken.) Moses prays for expiation for their sin, saying "And yet, if it pleased you to forgive their sin...! If not, please blot me out of the book you have written!" (32) (Symbolizing Jesus' sacrfice...)

Exodus 33-34
More good stuff, don't really know what to say that relates too directly,until...

Exodus 34: 29-30, 33
When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the [new] two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, as he was coming down the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face was radiant because he had been talking to him. And when Aaron and the Israelites saw Moses, the skin on his face was so radiant that they were afraid to go near him...Once Moses had finished speaking to them, he put a veil over his face. [the veil represents the law between the people and God's voice, or between looking at the law and trying to follow God]

'the sacrifice on Carmel'
1 Kings 18: 20-24, 27, 29, 30-39
Ahab called all Israel together and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. Elijah stepped out in front of all the people, "How long", he said, "do mean to hobble first on one leg then on the other? If Yahweh is God, follow him; if Baal, follow him." But the people had nothing to say. Elijah then said to them, "I, I alone, am left as a prophet of Yahweh, while the prophets of Baal are four hundred and fifty. Let two bulls be given us; let them choose one for themselves, dismember it but do not set fire to it. I in my turn shall prepare the other bull, but not set fire to it. You must call on the name of your god, and I shall call on the name of Yahweh; the god who answers with fire is God indeed." The people all answered, "Agreed!"...Midday came, and Elijah mocked them. "Call louder," he said, "for he is a god: he is preoccupied or he is busy, or he has gone on a journey; perhaps he is asleep and needs to be woken up!"...Midday passed, and they ranted on until the time when the offering is presented; BUT there was no voice, no answer, no sign of attention.
Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come over to me," and all the people came over to him. He REPAIRED Yahweh's altar which had been torn down. Elijah took TWELVE stones, corresponding to the number of tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of Yahweh had come, "Israel is to be your name," and built an altar in the name of Yahweh. Round the altar he dug a trench of a size to hold two measures of seed. He then arranged the wood, dismembered the bull, and laid it on the wood. Then he said, "Fill four jars with water and pour it on the burnt offering and on the wood." They did this. He said, "Do it a second time;" they did it a second time. He said, "Do it a third time;" they did it a third time. The water flowed round the altar until even the trench itself was full of water. [water mingling with blood as from Jesus' heart on the cross, and baptism/ Jesus' blood] At the time when the offering is presented, Elijah the prophet stepped forward. "Yahweh, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel," he said let them know today that you are God in Israel, and that I AM YOUR SERVANT, THAT I HAVE DONE ALL THESE THINGS AT YOUR COMMAND. Answer me, Yahweh, answer me, so that the people may know that YOU, YAHWEH, ARE GOD AND ARE WINNING BACK THEIR HEARTS."
Then Yahweh's fire fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and licked up the water in the trench. When all the people saw this they fell on their faces. "Yahweh is God," they cried, "Yahweh is God!"
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[Now onto Mark 9]

2-9 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and John and led them to a high mountain on their own by themselves. There in their presence he was transfigured: his clothes became brilliantly white, whiter than any earthly bleacher could make them. Elijah appeared to them with Moses; and they were talking to Jesus. Then Peter spoke to Jesus, "Rabbi," he said, "it is wonderful for us to be here; so let us make three shelters, one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." He did not know what to say; they were so frightened. And a cloud came, covering them in shadow; and from the cloud came a voice, "This is my Son, the Beloved. Listen to him." Then suddenly, when they looked around, they saw no one with them any more but only Jesus. As they were coming down from the mountain he warned them to tell no one what they had seen, until after the Son of man had risen from the dead...But I tell you that Elijah has come and they have treated him as they pleased, just as the scriptures say about him." As they were rejoining the disciples they saw a large crowd round them and some scribes arguing with them. At once, when they saw him, the whole crowd were struck with amazement and ran to greet him.

As I said before, Peter, James and John are the only apostles that difinitely write in the New Testament. Mathew might be the only other apostle that isn't here as an exception... Is this the New Tablet to which they were to later bear witness, to write? As I have tried to shown in comparing the texts, I think this moment transcends time, just like the giving of the Law, just like God's eternal trying to win back the hearts of his people by Elijah's sacrifice. God commands the disciples to 'Listen' the key to true Christian obedience...Elijah in other parts is interpreted as John, but here once more could also play signifigance in the cosmic love story of God and his people and how Elijah himself was mistreated for His name...the crowd was amazed with the same amazement of Moses' shining face, but now his disciples, being clensed, can 'run to greet him' in his splendor...the making of shelters was ridiculous because they were outside time? Watching God's plans unfold? Peter's second silly thought since his instructing Jesus, just after calling him Christ...



I am perhaps wrong here...but as I said I would give an explanation...there it is...

I would enjoy reading anybody else's more acurate interpretation...if they have one...I studied these verses fairly extensively at the time, and this was what I felt I was shown...

God bless
tony
 
Jun 18, 2009
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#6
what is it when you are transfiguration?
 
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