Are there Apostles and Prophets today pt. 2

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

Today has a new movement that believes there will be Super Apostles and Prophets, whatever that is.
Part 1 accomplished not much but emotion. I heard one young man give one reason there would be
Apostles and Prophets today that i respected. And thats because it says so in the bible. So as it does
ill try to show what it was intended to mean. Here is the verse:

Ephesians 4:11..And He gave some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, For the perfecting of the saints, and the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ till we all..

I agree this does say that apostles and prophets will be here, but how and in what way? Lets back up in
the book and read what came before chapter 4. Prophets we will get to at the end of the study.

The Apostles Foundational Role

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the [foundation of the apostles and prophets], Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 2:19-22

Here we see the church compared to a building.

Jesus himself is the chief cornerstone. The apostles and prophets make up the rest of the foundation. This analogy helps us to see the foundational role of the apostles.

When building a building, the first thing that is laid is the foundation. Everything else is then built upon that one foundation. Do we then go back after building a couple of stories and lay the foundation again? No. It is only done once. The foundation is laid one time in the beginning and then never again.

The same is true of the apostles. They served as a foundation for the emerging church. We should not expect to see another group of apostles later on any more than we would expect someone building a building to lay another foundation on the fourth floor. After all, Jesus Christ, being the chief cornerstone, is a part of this foundation as well. We certainly do not expect there to be another Jesus Christ, do we?

The Witness of An Apostle

Apostles were to bear witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. In order to do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected.

And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day… And ye are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:46-48

When looking for someone to replace Judas, the one chosen had to be a witness unto the resurrection.

Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:22

Jesus told the apostles:

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 1:8

And that is exactly what they did.

And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 4:33

Paul the apostle, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that he had seen Jesus after he had risen from the dead.

Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1 Corinthians 9:1

After that, he [JESUS] was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1 Corinthians 15:7-9
The true apostles are unique in their ministry , office, and power never to be duplicated. They were for a specific period in Church history. It is impossible for their to be modern day apostles as in the beginning since none of those today possess the necessary credentials to be an apostle. In 1 Cor.4:9 Paul explains what it was to be an apostle. “For I think God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; “ (this is in the aorist tense meaning that they do not continue.) The apostles example were that they gave their lives for Christ and the Church. It was their teaching and it being written including miracles that made them apostles.
This LAST passage is devastating for those who believe that there are apostles today. In order to be an apostle one has to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. Paul says that Jesus was seen last of all by him. He is the last one to see Jesus after his resurrection. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle. Therefore, there can be no apostles today.

The Choosing of An Apostle

The apostles were hand-picked by Jesus himself.

And when it was day, he [JESUS] called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Luke 6:13

Not only were the original twelve apostles hand-picked by Jesus, Paul was as well.

And as he [Paul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 9:3-6

After Jesus appeared to him, he said of Paul:

...for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 9:13-15

Paul refers to himself as:

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ...

Galatians 1:1

Paul was an apostle because he had been hand-picked by Jesus Christ. Since Jesus isn’t appearing to anyone today (see our last point), no one is being hand-picked, either.

The Signs of An Apostle

Jesus gave the apostles the ability to perform miraculous signs..

And when he [JESUS] had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these...

Matthew 10:1-2

...for in nothing am I [PAUL] behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

2 Corinthians 12:11-12

Paul refers to his ability to perform miracles as "the signs of an apostle".

And they [The Apostles] went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Mark 16:20

This miracle-working power was given to the apostles to bear witness that they were God’s messengers and that they were speaking the very words of God.

Many people operate under the false assumption that all Christians in the early church were working miracles. This is simply not true.

And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Acts 2:43

And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people...

Acts 5:12

If every believer had this power, why did Jesus need to give it to the apostles? They would have had it already. There is not one miracle performed in the new testament by anyone other than Jesus, the apostles, or those who were directly chosen by Jesus or the apostles.

Those who claim to be apostles today may claim to have this kind of miracle-working power but there is little (no) evidence of it.

Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. And a certain man lame from his mothers womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;

Acts 3:1-2

Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. And all the people saw him walking and praising God:

Acts 3:6-9

Compare this to the so-called miracles that we see today. Our would-be apostles supposedly heal people of things like: earaches, back pain, high blood pressure, and other such things that cannot be seen or verified.

This man was lame from his birth. He had never walked. Not only did he have bone problems, he would have had muscle problems as well. Have you ever seen the legs of a person who has been in a wheel chair for a long time? They have no muscles in them. The muscles in their legs would have to be regenerated before they could walk.

In the Bible days, when people wore robes, the change in this man’s calves would have been seen immediately. Jesus healed a man with a withered hand. His hand would have been recreated. Again, this would have been obvious to all who were watching. Jesus and the apostles raised the dead. Jesus raised Lazarus after he had been dead for days. His body was severely decomposed and even stank. These kinds of miracles could not be questioned.

Why don’t we see people performing these types of miracles today? Because those who claim to have miracle-working power don’t actually have it.

The Bible says this concerning the high priest and other religious leaders of the Jews:

And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it. But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves, Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it.

Acts 4:14-16

It is easy to deny the works of the so-called apostles today. They are often heard about second hand, and the tale seems to grow with the telling. There are researchers, many of them medical doctors, who have tried to verify these so-called miracles. What they find without exception is exaggerations, deception and even outright fraud. They find absolutely no evidence that any true miracle has actually taken place.

Compare that with miracles of the true apostles. Their miracles were performed out in the open for all to see. No one could deny them or speak a word against them.

Don’t get me wrong. I believe that God still heals and performs miracles today in answer to our prayers. What I’m saying, however, is that there are no "Apostles" today. There is "healing" but there are no longer any "healers".

False Apostles

The Bible tells us that there were not only "true" apostles but that there were also "false" apostles. The following passage sends a stern warning of the dire consequences that await those who claim to be apostles but aren’t.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Jesus commends the Ephesians for being able to spot these false apostles.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:2

It’s easy to spot false apostles today. Since there are no true apostles today, anyone who claims to be an apostle is a false apostle.

Conclusion

So are there apostles today? I have given a number of reasons why there are not. Let’s just review them briefly.

1) There are no apostles today because the apostles served as a foundation for the early church only. We should not expect to see apostles today any more than we should expect to see someone laying a building’s foundation on the fourth floor.

2) There are no apostles today because they had to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. The apostles were to bear witness to the resurrection of Christ. To do this they had to have seen him after he rose from the dead. Paul says that he was the last person to see Jesus. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle.

3) There are no apostles today because apostles had to be hand-picked by Jesus. Since Jesus isn’t appearing to anyone today, he isn’t hand-picking anyone, either.

4) There are no apostles today because no one today has the miracle-working power of an apostle. Apostles were able to heal any physical condition. No case was to difficult. These healings often involved the miraculous recreation of body parts, and even the resurrection of the dead. No one is manifesting this type of miracle-working power today.

The Bible warns us not to be deceived by false apostles. Since there are no true apostles today, anyone who claims to be an apostle is a false apostle.

most of this was taken from a paper by James M, Frye

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Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

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What makes a prophet a true spokesman for God?

The Old Testament prophets taught the basic truths and principles of God, and the facts and nuances of man's relationship with Him. They condemned sin, they brought comfort to the remnant, and conviction to those who sinned. They were invariably persecuted by the target portion of Israel, and most importantly, they spoke of things to come both near and far into the future Deuteronomy 18:15 -19 tells us of the nature of a true prophet. Verses 20 through 22 state that if one claiming to be a prophet speaks in the Lord's name, something God has not given him to say, or speaks in the name of other gods, then he is to die. Thankfully, the Lord provides a method for identifying fallacies spread by would-be divine spokesmen. If what is said in His name does not come to pass, then God has not spoken it.

In Ezekiel there is an interesting scripture Ezek. 13:2-3 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, 'Hear the word of the LORD!'“ Thus says the Lord GOD: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! God says one can actually say they are hearing from the Lord but it really is their own spirit.

In the OT prophets prophesied within three time frames . Their own time, for the 1st coming and the 2nd coming. The test of a prophet was his near prophecies which would be fulfilled in his own lifetime. Obviously, if it was beyond his lifetime, he wouldn't be around to have to answer for it. Prophecy was very specific in the Old and the New Testament. They would foretell God's revelation to the people and if one looks back at Biblical record to study a prophet's calling, it was God who picked them and they are often found arguing not to have the office. In contrast, there are now schools to train new prophets because the people desire this office.

Another test used on would be prophets, found in Deuteronomy 13:1. In addition to whether or not their predictions came true is whether they used signs and wonders as tools to draw people to other gods or a different representation of God. (Such as Jannes and Jambres in 2 Timothy 3:8). Here, God is testing the people to see if they love only Him. This is probably the most overlooked scripture pertaining to examining the claims of those who profess supernatural powers that come from God. If they were to contradict the teaching that had already been revealed - which had provided knowledge of the one true God then they were seen as false prophets. God did not, and still does not tolerate false prophesying. If they wrong once, they are false, they were to be stoned. If this occurred today many if not all who lay claim to this position would have a quick end to their so called anointing!

Remember: just because one performs miracles, even inside a church, does not mean God is working. We should be more on guard inside the church than we would like to think. In 1 Corinthians 4:6, we are told no to go beyond what in written. If one contradicts the apostolic writings and teachings, then they are false (2 Cor.11:14). Those who go beyond the word having God speak to them directly with new revelation, become puffed up with self deception. There is something called humility that is practiced when one adheres to the same standard that everyone else does. Isa.8:16” bind up the testimony (of the Prophets) seal the law among my disciples”. (Moses) vs. 20 “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because their is no light in them.” This standard distinguishes a believer from an unbeliever. The test of the prophet was his conformity to the word of God, he condemns sin, he comforts the brethren, and he speaks of things in the near future and later than his life. A prophet, like an apostle, not only functioned as a gift, but as an office. A prophet would declare God's will for his generation, addressing idolatry or lukewarmness. We see this personified in John the Baptist who warned and rebuked the people preparing the for the Messiah.

Jesus said there was no greater prophet than John the baptizer (of the old Testament dispensation) because he had the privilege to introduce the messiah.

In the Old Testament there were prophets who did not speak for God yet the people loved to hear what they had to say more than the true prophets words. Jer.23:16 “They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD”. A few verses later God calls them lying prophets, v. 30 “who steal from one another words supposedly from me.”

Isa. 29:10-13: “For the LORD has poured out on you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets; and He has covered your heads, namely, the seers. The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, “Read this, please.” And he says, “I cannot, for it is sealed.” Then the book is delivered to one who is illiterate, saying, “Read this, please.” And he says, “I am not literate Therefore the LORD said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men.” When we see new prophets operate outside the written word or give new unknown meanings to the word they have become illiterate to expounding truth. When this happens many turn to signs and wonders to validate their ministry. Its not truth that they have to give, but the power to display. 2 Tim.4:3 The time will come when they will not adhere to sound doctrine but according to their desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn away from the truth and be turned aside to fables.” Fables are all things beyond what is written in the word.

Time is the enemy of a false prophet, so if one cannot discern from their conforming to scriptures, then they will certainly be able to tell by waiting to see if what was said will come to pass. In the New Testament, when the foundation of the faith was being laid down, a prophet saying “thus saith the Lord” would bring forth new revelations which in turn became our scripture. This is a strong reason why there are no more prophets today.

Acts 13:1: “Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the holy spirit said “now separate unto me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Remember the NT. was still being written down and there was revelation given. The prophets here were Saul and Barnabas and more likely the others were the teachers mentioned.

God is able and still does speak in various ways, yet he has chosen a more explicit but simple way to convey his message. It is by his son. Not just any Son but one who is God himself who delivered it in person. his words are written down so it can be understood equally to all. To change this or reject this method is to reject God.

Not everyone mentioned in the Bible who received direct revelation from God was a prophet or even a believer. God spoke to Pharaoh in a dream also Nebuchadnezzar. In Gen.20 Abimelech is warned by God not to take Sarah into his harem. So just because one receives a dream or vision does not mean they are of God. Also we need to know the enemy can give prophecies that will come to pass but will oppose Gods word. So all needs to be tested by the words of the true prophets and apostles.

In Jeremiah’s day he was commissioned to be the prophet to the people as they were in Babylonian captivity. Jeremiah was made an illustration to the Hebrew people as the time was ordained to be 70 years of captivity. The children of Israel were to submit to being in captivity for the duration ordained by God for the sake of their own survival or it was considered rebellion. Jeremiah’s message to Zedekiah the king was not to believe the false prophets they encourage the people to rebel. We find Jeremiah is put in a yoke for 4 years to illustrate Israel captivity to Babylon.

In Jer.28 Hananiah the prophet publicly prophecies in the temple that within 2 years Jeconiah and all taken captive with him the vessels of the Lords house will be brought back into Jerusalem. The yolk will be broken. To illustrate this he takes the yoke off Jeremiah that the Lord had him wear and breaks it. Jeremiah immediately receives a word from the Lord in which he says Go tell Hananiah Thus says the Lord you have broken the yokes of wood but you have made in their place a yolk of Iron. Gods response to his self made prophecy is he will put all the nations in the surrounding area in a yolk of iron to serve the king of Babylon. It is then Jeremiah addresses him directly saying “hear now, Hananiah, the Lord has not sent you, but you make these people trust in a lie. Therefore says the Lord I will cast you from the face of the earth, this year you shall die because you have taught rebellion against the Lord and so he died in the 7th month of the same year. Obviously Jeremiah and others were in no position to bring sentence on the false prophets so God did.

What we see is false prophets incorporate their own agenda. We find censoring the false prophets protects Gods people from harm, physically and spiritually. Anyone who allows people of this type of questionable ability to go for it in their church needs to question whether they are pleasing man or God. As a shepherd do they really care for the sheep or are for promoting their own ministry. We don’t read of any second chances for false predictions or an attitude of let bygones be bygones. The scripture does not allow to let prophets practice because practice makes perfect. There are no readjustments in their figures. Nor do we hear, lets see if any harm comes from what they say first before we judge. 2 Peter 1:19 says we have a more sure word of prophecy. No prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. There seems to be a common denominator with all the new cults that disguise themselves as the original. They have new views on basic fundamental doctrines that have been accepted for almost 2,000 years it usually starts with the Lord told me or he appeared to me or I went to heaven. Sorry the job description has been filled your to late.

Hebrews 1:1 I tells us that God has spoken in times past to the fathers by the prophets in many various ways, but in these last days, He has spoken by His Son. Once the New Testament was completed, there was no longer a need for prophets to reveal God's will or new revelational knowledge. His Son's words are all we need. prophets are not a continuing position. However, we do have the gift of prophecy functioning for edification, consolation, and exhortation within the local church body. But this is never doctrine. Prophets are not sent, as in Old Testament times, to rebuke; rather the gift is to console and build us up.

God is able and still does speak in various ways yet he has chosen a more explicit but simple way to convey his message. It is by his son. Not just any son but one who is God himself to delivered it in person. To change this or reject this method is to reject God. As Jesus said he who receives you receives me and he who receives me receives the one who sent me, the father.

What do all false prophets have in common? A hope of not being tested! They count on the people not to test their writings by putting guilt and fear in those that would dare to question Gods “anointed ones”. Most people think that if we just teach the truth then we don’t have to address error. However error dies a slow death and must be exposed and then killed by the truth. Infections don’t leave the body by just eating right they need to be combated by antibiotics. The writers of the scripture did not believe in the concept of just teaching the truth. We have numerous letters that have their major content and themes addressing the false views and practices that arose in the early church. 1 Cor., 2 Thess. and 2nd John, Jude would not have been written if the apostles did not put the truth alongside error to expose it. All error challenges the truth and if accepted will usually rise above it. It was chased out of the early church and if a church is to be true to the words delivered by the apostles then it needs to be forged with the same attitude today. To be apologetic in ones approach to the culture and beliefs of the people is to be evangelical. That is to make sense out of the Gospel. The Bible teaches to preach the word not new revelation knowledge. If someone claims the position of a prophet they need to be brave enough to accept the consequences of one.

Today prophecy dos not have the same import that it did with the prophets to Israel.1 Cor. 14:3 “But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.”

Ephesians 2:20 says that the church has been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Ephesians 3:5 reads that the mystery concerning the church has been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets through the Holy Spirit. The scriptures indicate that these roles were fulfilled in the first century, and do not continue today. Many believe the apostles were also the prophets and that they wrote the future down in scripture for us. Acts 13:32 names Judas and Silas as also being prophets. Jude admonishes his readers to avoid false doctrines not by listening to the living prophets or apostles, but by recalling what the apostles already taught them in vs.17. The church today does not need new prophets and apostles today, just to listen more carefully to the old ones taken from article at Let Us Reason ministries -----http://www.letusreason.org/pent1.htm go read entire article and check out website.

Id pray people on this site can read and study. If you simply dont want to study the bible yet believe
something based on someone said so please dont be upset and expect other believers to go along
with extrabiblical teaching and practices.----

zone · Aug 2, 2011

Abiding said:

excellent.

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

Zone, im new still and had no idea this would be so much reading. BUT..I appeal to the conscience of all who come that call
people low down names for not agreeing with them on this topic, to do their homework. Because to stand for truth and to be called
satan, well id say sit your butt down and read first. And quit defending your error by one verse. And do it for your own soul and to be
pleasing to the Lord of Glory. Take your time like any study. Prayerfully be a workman, or be ashamed.

zone · Aug 2, 2011

thank you for taking the time to put this together abiding.
its good food.

i found the following interesting because it also helps us understand the prophets' "far off" visions of the Advents (sometimes only seeing one, other times seeing beyond to the second...and ezekiel seeing far off, on a high mountain a city, or temple, just like john: New Jerusalem...and it helps understand that the visions and things they saw that are even still future to us, would naturally be in the language and illustrative pictorial fashion (Hebrew) of their era)

Abiding said:

the following are scary....

Abiding said:

but this is terrifying:

Abiding said:

how often do we hear the following passage from Isaiah but quoted out of context, and ironically used by the 'prophets' against us who question them! Jezebel! Harlot church who won't listen to his servants!

Abiding said:

amen.

Abiding said:

scary...very much.

Abiding said:

oops....busted.

Abiding said:

i disagree with the above

there are no more prophets...don't know how the author could do all the work then just kind of have this hanging out there. i understand the same WORD is used, but the distinction should be made that in its context it means simply to TEACH and the things listed.
a gift of prophecy (qualitatively and purposefully equal to the Apostolic era) doesn't exist.
any christian, especially the teacher/pastor displays or performs edification, consolation, and exhortation within the local church body.

Abiding said:

this is what stumps me.
WHY would we look to anyone or anything else?

John 17:17
Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Abiding said:

AMEN!
and again Amen.

Abiding said:

another excellent post abiding.
though it IS upsetting, we can overcome the enemy's plans for us by KNOWING his devices.
i pray too that folks will really consider this stuff.

and get these NAR guys out of your chuches!

thanks again abiding. the truth is good and sweet and i feel sleepy

, going to take a nap.
love you brother.
zoney

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

Originally Posted by Abiding
However, we do have the gift of prophecy functioning for edification, consolation, and exhortation within the local church body. But this is never doctrine. Prophets are not sent, as in Old Testament times, to rebuke; rather the gift is to console and build us up..----
i disagree with the above
there are no more prophets...don't know how the author could do all the work then just kind of have this hanging out there. i understand the same WORD is used, but the distinction should be made that in its context it means simply to TEACH and the things listed.
a gift of prophecy (qualitatively and purposefully equal to the Apostolic era) doesn't exist.
any christian, especially the teacher/pastor displays or performs edification, consolation, and exhortation within the local church body.

yes i agree he didnt clarify enough. thing is even if a person believed prophecy in 1 cor 12-14 that wasnt a prophet.

loveschild · Aug 2, 2011

Might as well say there is no such thing as Christians to day either it all died out. God have mercy on you all. You mock and slander the people of God just as the bible said. You are the false prophets we were warned of and you don't even realize.

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

Abiding said:

I will read my bible. you do not have to study the counterfeit to know it when you see it. All you have to do is know the authentic, and then you can see a counterfeit when it comes by. Zone, ceasationalism ect... are counterfeits, and I know this because I have studied the authentic...God's Holy Word.

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

loveschild said:

Didnt read the thread did you? Of coarse not.

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

loveschild said:

This is a very true statement. They warn against false prophets claiming anyone that says they pare prophets are false. when really they are the false prophets that they are warning people against.ironic to say the least.

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

4runner said:

You didnt do the reading either did you? You questioned me and told me to give scripture. I did
but your gona make excuses now. Right? Matter of fact i named you in the intro. But youd rather
stay where you are. hmmm Okey dokey

loveschild · Aug 2, 2011

Abiding said:

Have a good day!

zone · Aug 2, 2011

4runner said:

1 Corinthians 11:19
No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

4runner said:

Ya and you can back all this up with 1 verse. Powerful!

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

Abiding said:

You have made two contradictory statements here

To bad James isnt God, maybe he is a false Apostle.

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

4runner said:

Hey

maybe your reading the thread. cool

Abiding · Aug 2, 2011

No it isnt a contradiction I wrote that and it was truly said like that to respect you and you only.
You were standing on scripture, which is noble, but do you understand it fully? apparently not,
which is ok for now but you have to keep going and learn more. As it fits with all scripture, and that takes
effort, a workman, rightly dividing the word. Not just a plain read. The bible is not that kind of book.

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

Abiding said:

Well unless the church has come to the unity of faith, unto the knowledge of the Son of God, a mature man, the fullness of the stature of Christ, then there are still Apostles, and prophets.

zone · Aug 2, 2011

4runner said:

the real church has, dear. THE faith. there is a THE faith, delivered once for all. read Jude to see about that.
but you despise the historic church....because you don't like THE FAITH: it's by Grace through faith plus nothing.

Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone
Solus Christus - Christ Alone
Sola Gratia - Grace Alone
Sola Fide - Faith Alone
Soli Deo Gloria - The Glory of God Alone

we just have a problem with the fringe elements causing divsions contrary to the doctrine the apsotles taught, contrary to the faith delivered once for all.
we're in unity. they could be too.
many won't.
nothing new.

4runner · Aug 2, 2011

zone said:

I am in total agreement with the teachings of the Apostles and the 1st-2nd century Church.

Yes we do, the sad thing is the fringe is the majority these days. The good thing is God always has a remnant.

P.S. do a word study on the word radical, and see what you find

Are there Apostles and Prophets today pt. 2

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