Some of the charsimatic movement seriously scares me :/

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needmesomejesus

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#1
I've used to go to a Pentecostal church and the would tell people if they didn't speak in tongues they weren't saved. How scary is that; that is totally not Biblical. Also my problem with the charismatic movement is the fact that many elevate the gift more than the giver. If tongues are still around (for now I don't believe they are), they are misused. For one tongues are not supposed to be used in a church setting around non-believers
1 Corinthians 14:22-25 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.”

Also Paul is very clear that if the gifts of prophesy and tongues are still around prophesy benefits the church better.
1 Corinthians 14:1-4 Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy. For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

Most importantly if you claim to have the gift of speaking tongues you better have an interpreter.
1 Corinthians 14: 13-14 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

This is what I've come across as I've been studying.:) Be blessed everyone
 
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
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#2
I've used to go to a Pentecostal church and the would tell people if they didn't speak in tongues they weren't saved. How scary is that; that is totally not Biblical. Also my problem with the charismatic movement is the fact that many elevate the gift more than the giver. If tongues are still around (for now I don't believe they are), they are misused. For one tongues are not supposed to be used in a church setting around non-believers
1 Corinthians 14:22-25 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.”

Also Paul is very clear that if the gifts of prophesy and tongues are still around prophesy benefits the church better.
1 Corinthians 14:1-4 Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy. For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

Most importantly if you claim to have the gift of speaking tongues you better have an interpreter.
1 Corinthians 14: 13-14 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

This is what I've come across as I've been studying.:) Be blessed everyone
Good study,I agree many within the Charasmatic church are influenced by the flesh or even demonic spirits, but do not throw the baby out with the bath water, there are some good godly christian men that still move in the gift of the Spirit today.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#3
I'm glad you're studying the Bible for yourself :)
 
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needmesomejesus

Guest
#5
Good study,I agree many within the Charasmatic church are influenced by the flesh or even demonic spirits, but do not throw the baby out with the bath water, there are some good godly christian men that still move in the gift of the Spirit today.

You're right I suppose. I just stay away from Charismatic churches which is why I attend a Baptist church. I'm still having issues if tongues still exist why. Because we have translators unless its only used in your personal prayer life. I don't see the point of it in church anymore.
 
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needmesomejesus

Guest
#7
I'm planning on doing a study on 1 Corinthians 13 cause about the cessation of tongues I know people have their claims about what they think. The definition of perfect in that chapter really bothers me and confuses me, but if I come up with something I'll post what I've learned.:)
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#8
You're right I suppose. I just stay away from Charismatic churches which is why I attend a Baptist church. I'm still having issues if tongues still exist why. Because we have translators unless its only used in your personal prayer life. I don't see the point of it in church anymore.
Well, there are actually 3 types of tongues

1 Other Earthly languages like in acts 2
2 Prayer language which would be a heavenly language 1st Corinthians 14:2-4
3 The gift of tongues which is when someone has a message for the church in tongues that need a interpretation (Not a translato, but someone with the spiritual gift of interpretation of tongues as this too is a heavenly language) 1st Corinthians 12:8-10, and 1st Corinthians 14:27-28

All of these are still in effect and serve whatever purpose God has originally designed for them.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#9
I'm planning on doing a study on 1 Corinthians 13 cause about the cessation of tongues I know people have their claims about what they think. The definition of perfect in that chapter really bothers me and confuses me, but if I come up with something I'll post what I've learned.:)
I believe the perfect is the return of Christ. However when you do your study keep this in mind. A supposition such as the perfect is the bible therefore tongues, and prophecies have ceased cannot override a direct statement of scripture such as covet to prophecy and forbid not to speak in tongues as Paul says in 1st Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Those that says tongues, and prophecies have ceased because the cannon is the perfect do just that. They cause their supposition override a direct statement of the very cannon they claim is perfect???????
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#10
I believe the perfect is the return of Christ. However when you do your study keep this in mind. A supposition such as the perfect is the bible therefore tongues, and prophecies have ceased cannot override a direct statement of scripture such as covet to prophecy and forbid not to speak in tongues as Paul says in 1st Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Those that says tongues, and prophecies have ceased because the cannon is the perfect do just that. They cause their supposition override a direct statement of the very cannon they claim is perfect???????
"you're so vain...
you probably think this Psalm is about you"

learn to study young man.
Paul wasn't TALKING TO YOU.
shocker huh?:rolleyes:
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#11
"you're so vain...
you probably think this Psalm is about you"

learn to study young man.
Paul wasn't TALKING TO YOU.
shocker huh?:rolleyes:
See how far one must go to stick to their ceasationalist views. The writings of Paul are no longer applicable. (according to Zone at least)
 
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needmesomejesus

Guest
#12
I believe the perfect is the return of Christ. However when you do your study keep this in mind. A supposition such as the perfect is the bible therefore tongues, and prophecies have ceased cannot override a direct statement of scripture such as covet to prophecy and forbid not to speak in tongues as Paul says in 1st Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Those that says tongues, and prophecies have ceased because the cannon is the perfect do just that. They cause their supposition override a direct statement of the very cannon they claim is perfect???????

Well, that would make sense if the perfect was the end of the Bible. That verse was not written after the end of the Bible so that would make sense for Paul to say that.:) But like I said I'm going to study it.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#13
Well, that would make sense if the perfect was the end of the Bible. That verse was not written after the end of the Bible so that would make sense for Paul to say that.:) But like I said I'm going to study it.
The text also says when the perfect is come we shall no longer see as through a glass darkly, but will know as we are known. That has happened yet. Furthermore the text says that when the perfect comes we will see Jesus face to face, that hasnt happen yet either, but it will at His return.

1st Corinthians 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



Those are the reasons I believe the perfect is Christ, and they come from the text itself. I cant see any reason that any one would believe that the perfect is scripture. Certainly not from reading the passage in question
 
N

needmesomejesus

Guest
#14
The text also says when the perfect is come we shall no longer see as through a glass darkly, but will know as we are known. That has happened yet. Furthermore the text says that when the perfect comes we will see Jesus face to face, that hasnt happen yet either, but it will at His return.

1st Corinthians 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



Those are the reasons I believe the perfect is Christ, and they come from the text itself. I cant see any reason that any one would believe that the perfect is scripture. Certainly not from reading the passage in question
yah my only confusion it what if verse 12 isn't talking about being perfect. idk who knows we may all be wrong when we get to heaven lol.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#15
yah my only confusion it what if verse 12 isn't talking about being perfect. idk who knows we may all be wrong when we get to heaven lol.
Well I can see your heart is to learn, and you want to know God's truth, not mans, so I believe God will reveal Himself to you.
 
Y

yaright

Guest
#16
I'm glad you brought this to our attention. It is written that God's people perish for lack of knowledge; and this witness you've given certainly brings light to a point that there are young in their faith believers who suffer just how cruel the religions of men can be. There are no small number of christian religions that use a similar tact, portraying their doctrines as being exclusively given to God's chosen people. In the beginning of Christ's ministry, Jesus teaches us how the very beginnings of our personal relationship with Him starts. There is no other way except through Him. And for those who preach that a person who is not healed by their chanting and dancing and saying it is because a person has 'little faith' I have news for you. The only people Jesus said "O'you of little faith" to were those who followed Him. For those who do not understand, "O'you of little faith was spoken to those whom Jesus said, no one can remove them from His hand. period
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#17
For one tongues are not supposed to be used in a church setting around non-believers
1 Corinthians 14:22-25 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers.
Just making sure you realize there are at least 3 uses for tongues:
1) confirmation of receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit
2) private prayer language
3) in a church setting (see above), and yes they should be interpreted
.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#19
Log rolling just isn't as much fun on the carpet of a church.
 
May 21, 2009
3,955
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#20
I've used to go to a Pentecostal church and the would tell people if they didn't speak in tongues they weren't saved. How scary is that; that is totally not Biblical. Also my problem with the charismatic movement is the fact that many elevate the gift more than the giver. If tongues are still around (for now I don't believe they are), they are misused. For one tongues are not supposed to be used in a church setting around non-believers
1 Corinthians 14:22-25 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.”

Also Paul is very clear that if the gifts of prophesy and tongues are still around prophesy benefits the church better.
1 Corinthians 14:1-4 Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy. For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

Most importantly if you claim to have the gift of speaking tongues you better have an interpreter.
1 Corinthians 14: 13-14 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

This is what I've come across as I've been studying.:) Be blessed everyone
Hi maybe this will help you. I'll take from your verses. First let me say no one should have told you, you aren't saved if you don't speak in tongues. Tongues have nothing to do with being saved. Tongues do have to do with you getting messages from God for you and for the church. So if you don't speak in tongues you are missing out on this.

We've been talking about being baptized in the Holy Spirit for a while here. And the tongues are a sign of this event from God.


Thus [unknown] tongues are meant for a [supernatural] sign

That's not hard to understand----tongues are a sign

but for unbelievers [on the point of believing],

The sign of speaking in tongues is for people who don't believe...so when a person sees a person who they know to be following God and they see them speak in tongues...it is to make them wonder whats is this.

What has happened is the Devil, doesn't want anyone to have more help from God. So the Devil made sure to send people to say the tongues are from the devil. The devil came to steal the word of God from people. He stole the word of the tongues from lots of Christians.


interpreting the divine will and purpose) is not for unbelievers [on the point of believing] but for believers.

People that don't believe in the tongues aren't receiving the divine will and purpose of God through the tongues...but the believers of the tongues are.


Therefore, if the whole church assembles and all of you speak in [unknown] tongues, and the ungifted and uninitiated or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are demented?

So if a person came into church and everyone was speaking in tongues the unlearned person wouldn't understand what was being said.
So the teacher or the pastor has to speak in the language of the people where they live. If they speak English in that area the teacher has to speak English. If the teacher was to stand in the front of the church and speak in tongues the whole time the unlearned person would think it was crazy. There can still be people praying in tongues through church. But the teacher must speak in the language for the area.

24But if all prophesy [giving inspired testimony and interpreting the divine will and purpose] and an unbeliever or untaught outsider comes in, he is told of his sin and reproved and convicted and convinced by all, and his defects and needs are examined (estimated, determined) and he is called to account by all, 25The secrets of his heart are laid bare; and so, falling on [his] face, he will worship God, declaring that God is among you in very truth.


This is what church is about. This talking about a unsaved person or a back slider being convicted or one who doesn't understand the tongues by God to repent and turn to God.
When A Christian sees another Christian speaking in tongues they should wonder what it is and want what God has for them.

Except Satan made sure to put his foot in there and he lied and told people it was evil. Satan is stealing from Gods people.

So in other words if a unbelieving person is in church and tongues have been spoken and a message from God is being spoken in the person language hopefully they will repent or want the tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:22-25

Amplified Bible (AMP)

22Thus [unknown] tongues are meant for a [supernatural] sign, not for believers but for unbelievers [on the point of believing], while prophecy (inspired preaching and teaching, interpreting the divine will and purpose) is not for unbelievers [on the point of believing] but for believers.
23Therefore, if the whole church assembles and all of you speak in [unknown] tongues, and the ungifted and uninitiated or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are demented?
24But if all prophesy [giving inspired testimony and interpreting the divine will and purpose] and an unbeliever or untaught outsider comes in, he is told of his sin and reproved and convicted and convinced by all, and his defects and needs are examined (estimated, determined) and he is called to account by all,
25The secrets of his heart are laid bare; and so, falling on [his] face, he will worship God, declaring that God is among you in very truth.


I am around people all the time who speak in tongues. It's a part of being a Christian. We don't speak in tongues and say na na I can do it and you can't na na. What is happening is God is wanting his church full equipped for the days we are in. We have people in the church who don't speak too and the Lord is telling us to teach them. Some are of the attitude of they don't have to. But God wants them to. So we are going through some ordeals. They just don't understand that's all.



I understand very well churches are doing wrong and saying you aren't saved if you don't speak. Satan put his foot there too. I've been in a church where people came up trying to smash my belly trying to make me speak and be filled with the spirit. I already knew how. And didn't want them touching me.


But for years I didn't speak in tongues cause I didn't understand it. I wasn't taught about it right or Satan had a blocker on my mind so I couldn't receive. But I consider myself very blessed that I remembered seeing my grandmother as a child speaking it once or twice. I remembered thinking that seems so weird what is it. But I knew my grandma was a sweet Godly person and I knew she wasn't of the devil.


So when I seen people in church speak I wondered what it was all about. I felt embarrassed to ask about it. How come I didn't have it and how come I didn't understand what it was. I felt dumb about it. Gods a gentlemen and he won't force us to do as he wills.


I had to find out about it. I wanted to learn so I went searching about it. I had woke up in the middle of the night speaking it. Heard that has happened to lots of people. Still didn't understand it. And I wasn't going to do anything I didn't understand. At the same time my daughter wanted to know about it. My step mom didn't do it and I didn't understand that either.


So we prayed and read in the bible and got a book how to speak it. It all boils down to if you will surrender your mouth over to God and let him pray for you. Me and my daughter did surrender and we pray in tongues. My step mom had some problems with self righteousness and she never did speak it.


So you can talk to God about it and learn. Or never speak it. I thank God very much it is a part of me. It helps me a lot. The bible says we don't know how to pray well enough but God does. When I pray in tongues he tells me things to help me or help someone else or he has me praying for things I know nothing about. But he knows.


God bless you and remember you are saved whether you speak it or not.