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Thread: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Haha funny thing is, nothing on earth or in hell can stop the restoration of apostles and prophets in our day, you cant fight against God you know lol. The falling away in our time will be due to the reality of the kingdom that will come upon the earth, and the hardship that will come. Only those that are truly His will be able to stand. Anyone that is saved to anything other than Christ Himself will not be willing to die to the degree necessary (nor can they). That's not to say that some wont be genuinely converted, and many will be added that have never been in a church, we are going to see a true representation of Jesus Christ on the earth, then He will return.
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    AnandaHya
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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Jesus does not return until the Falling away happens, the man of peridition is revealed and everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus is slaughtered for their beliefs by the world because they would not submit and worship the Beast.

    where in the Bible does it say that "a true representation of Jesus Christ on the earth" is needed before Jesus can return?

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    [quote=Deadflesh;511957]No, See, i guess thank you for answering. BUT you didnt answer my question. I didnt ask what in your opinion is the defination of them. I ASKED What is there purpose. What do they do?

    Those are not MY defenitions. They are what they are and what they do.

    A pastor is a sheppard (that is what the greek word means)
    An evengelist is one who spreads the good news.
    and a teacher is one who teaches.

    If you don't like hearing what they are. why did you ask?
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnandaHya View Post
    Jesus does not return until the Falling away happens, the man of peridition is revealed and everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus is slaughtered for their beliefs by the world because they would not submit and worship the Beast.

    where in the Bible does it say that "a true representation of Jesus Christ on the earth" is needed before Jesus can return?

    opps that was in that paperback i bought
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnandaHya View Post
    Jesus does not return until the Falling away happens, the man of peridition is revealed and everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus is slaughtered for their beliefs by the world because they would not submit and worship the Beast.
    I was with you until this point. Paul clearly astates twice once in 1st Corinthians 15:51-52 and once in 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 that there will be believers that survive the Tribulation and are translated into immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the Air at Christ's return immediately after the dead are raised.

    where in the Bible does it say that "a true representation of Jesus Christ on the earth" is needed before Jesus can return?
    How about Ephesians 5?

    Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

  6. #46
    AnandaHya
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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Not going to fall into the snare of arguing about things no one can truly know until the return of Christ. most should know they may be called to die for their beliefs, if it is God's will to keep some until they are called to God upon Christ's return then that is God's will but to build your beliefs on shifting sands that you will not have to endure tribulations but will be delivered from it all is to build your house on sand and not the solid rock of Christ and is not laying down ones life and picking up your cross.

    1 Corinthians 15: 56
    "the sting of death is sin,and the strength of sin is the law"

    Ephesians 5?

    read Revelations 21 and see who and where Christ's Bride comes from.....descending out of Heaven,

    how do you suggest men are able to do this thing?

    it is JESUS who washes away the sins of the world, not works of men, not obedience of the law, but through the grace of GOD.

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnandaHya View Post
    Not going to fall into the snare of arguing about things no one can truly know until the return of Christ.
    Cant know??? Read the 2 passages i gave you. if you believe that the scriptures are true then you CAN know


    Ephesians 5?

    read Revelations 21 and see who and where Christ's Bride comes from.....descending out of Heaven,
    The dead in Christ descend with Christ from heaven, but the Bride includes all believers the dead, and the living.

    how do you suggest men are able to do this thing?
    You mean become spotless, and blameless? Because of God's grace

    it is JESUS who washes away the sins of the world, not works of men, not obedience of the law, but through the grace of GOD.
    You answered your own question

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnandaHya View Post
    Jesus does not return until the Falling away happens, the man of peridition is revealed and everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus is slaughtered for their beliefs by the world because they would not submit and worship the Beast.

    where in the Bible does it say that "a true representation of Jesus Christ on the earth" is needed before Jesus can return?
    I agree with your first paragraph, but not everyone will be slaughtered. Many will, but it doesn't really matter, the Kingdom is not of this world, and God is able to keep us even through death - it has no hold on us. I think its easy to see by reading the word what kind of people will be alive in the time of the anti-christ's reign - they will be like an army, totally devoted to Christ, all idolatry being purged from their hearts, singleness of heart, and devotion to Christ, while there will be unbridled apostasy and also rampant idolatry and abomination on the earth, the people of God will be the Glory of God on earth. Evil and Good are maturing together in this harvest, and when it comes time to reap, both will be fully mature. This message threads throughout the whole bible.

    The bible teaches that Jesus will return for a bride without spot or blemish, and that there will come a time when the church is mature and displaying the fullness of the stature of Christ. It will take apostolic order to bring this about.
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  9. #49
    AnandaHya
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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    what is the difference between having the "office of teacher, pastor or evangelist" and just teaching, ministering, or spreading the gospel?

    what separate the offices from someone who is simply a disciple of Christ? why does Paul warn about not having too many teachers because they will be held to a higher standard?

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    Senior Member Deadflesh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    [quote=eternally-gratefull;512363]
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadflesh View Post
    No, See, i guess thank you for answering. BUT you didnt answer my question. I didnt ask what in your opinion is the defination of them. I ASKED What is there purpose. What do they do?

    Those are not MY defenitions. They are what they are and what they do.

    A pastor is a sheppard (that is what the greek word means)
    An evengelist is one who spreads the good news.
    and a teacher is one who teaches.

    If you don't like hearing what they are. why did you ask?
    he hee hee, No you miss understand Im not trying to get anyone riled up. SO please, let me rephrase.

    I asked, for what purpose does a Teacher teach, For What purpose does an evangelist evangelize, for what purpose does a shepherd ...Shep... .

    The purpose as stated in Ephesians is clear. BUT it adds, Apostel, and it adds Prophet, so the point of this thread, was to narrow down , WHY these three still have the purpose stated in ephesians, but apostel and prophet dont exist. How did they mysteriously vanish. YOU said they did? WHY is the bible considred the "perfect" if the original cannon had a few books added, and then people AFTER cannon was closed wanted to remove books(luther wanted to...he said James shouldnt be there, Esther, Revelations) So HE didnt think Cannon was perfect.

    I agree with somoen else on here who said the PERFECT is PERFECT LOVE. Which NO ONE HAS right now. Nobody. SO if NOBODY has it, then NOBODY is perfectly mature, and if nobody is perfectly mature, then we sTILL NEED HELP to become so. SO that means GOD will still raise up people(very few) to actually do so. Most teachers we have no a days are false. Most evangelists we have now adays, are selfish. Most PASTORS we have now adays, were CALLED to be evangelists, yet chose to ignore GOD, and do what they want(Years ago I was under a pastor who admitted it...silly) And the "office" of pastor, is treated like a CEO of a company, and NOT like a shepherd at ALL. They do NOT build up the week parts of the body i nthe congragation..they ostrasize them, and keep a small little sect pf people around them. They Treat them selves like GODS right hand man, and are NOT sevents of ALL, and do NOT help the widows, and orphans(as is what a PASTORS job is. Take care of NEW CONVERTS, as well as the sick, the fatherless, adn the husband less....they are to BE substitute Father/husband...and then take OTHERS hands and put them into the HAND of JESUS...and they dont do this.)

    SO since EVERYHTING is upside down adn backwrds, and false teachrs are runnign around calling everyon a false teacher, and "apostels" are raising up becasue they went to school to be one, and have a degree in worship, and no how to summon demons on someone and then bind them...and they call that Castign demons OUT. EVERYTHING is screwy...Which means Satan, and his minions are havign a BLAST.

    Yet God never said that he stoped raising up prophets, and apostels to help Build HIS body. Never. That was mans word. Not GOds. And for man to speak FOR GOD, is evil.

    SO that was my point.

    And i ask again, Evangelist, Pastor, teacher. What is there purpose? To build up the body? So since that IS what there purpose is...and that s ALSO what the purpose of Apostel(very very few) and Prophet(very very few...and WILL NOT BE ON TELVISION NOR WILL THEY HAVE BILLIONS OF FANS<< NOR WILL THEY BE PRAISED BY MAN) are, then That must mean that apostel and prophet are STILL going. FEW...and yes there is false ones, many many many many false ones. But nothing says they stoped.
    "We are more frightened of holiness than we are of sin” - Leonard Ravenhill

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnandaHya View Post
    what is the difference between having the "office of teacher, pastor or evangelist" and just teaching, ministering, or spreading the gospel?

    what separate the offices from someone who is simply a disciple of Christ? why does Paul warn about not having too many teachers because they will be held to a higher standard?
    Nothing that i know of, which is why the word "office" is screwy. but i use it becasue its a common term.

    I know of peopel who jsut KNOW how to teach the word, since they were Born again. They cant explain it, but they do it. THEY are teachers. That is a gIFT. NOT EVERYONE in the body can teach..many think they can, somtimes im sure i think i can when i cant. But not evryoen can teach. its a GIFT. Same thign with sheperding. SOme are given that GIFT, to keep the flock, fed, adn growing ,and leading them to THE STREAM OF LIVING WATER(Jesus) annd some...do not...wouldnt eve nknow how to...but then the person who doesnt know how to sheperd...or at least doesnt at that point in there life...will be GREAT at hearing the lord, and relying it to others. NOT EVERYONE can do that, and MOST ho are "hearing the LORd" better make sure its the lord, and not a wisperer, or themelves. And they also better make sure whats FOR THEM and whats for the body.


    Because a teacher is raising up the little ones(spiritual babes). He is strengthenign the thigns that remain. So if THEY are teachign lies, they are causing little ones to stumble. Thats why TEACHERS are held to STRICT accountability. and thats why Bishops(teacher/shepard) are suppsoedto be of one wife, and etc etc...Becasue they are incharge of the WEAK. TO teach and build up, Evengelists are buildign up the teachers/pastors, apostels/prophets are building up all...and then EVERYONE preaches the True gospel.

    ...thats what i get from it. Help at all? Jesus bless you.
    "We are more frightened of holiness than we are of sin” - Leonard Ravenhill

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    [quote=Deadflesh;512784]
    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    he hee hee, No you miss understand Im not trying to get anyone riled up. SO please, let me rephrase.

    I asked, for what purpose does a Teacher teach, For What purpose does an evangelist evangelize, for what purpose does a shepherd ...Shep... .

    The purpose as stated in Ephesians is clear. BUT it adds, Apostel, and it adds Prophet, so the point of this thread, was to narrow down , WHY these three still have the purpose stated in ephesians, but apostel and prophet dont exist. How did they mysteriously vanish. YOU said they did? WHY is the bible considred the "perfect" if the original cannon had a few books added, and then people AFTER cannon was closed wanted to remove books(luther wanted to...he said James shouldnt be there, Esther, Revelations) So HE didnt think Cannon was perfect.

    I agree with somoen else on here who said the PERFECT is PERFECT LOVE. Which NO ONE HAS right now. Nobody. SO if NOBODY has it, then NOBODY is perfectly mature, and if nobody is perfectly mature, then we sTILL NEED HELP to become so. SO that means GOD will still raise up people(very few) to actually do so. Most teachers we have no a days are false. Most evangelists we have now adays, are selfish. Most PASTORS we have now adays, were CALLED to be evangelists, yet chose to ignore GOD, and do what they want(Years ago I was under a pastor who admitted it...silly) And the "office" of pastor, is treated like a CEO of a company, and NOT like a shepherd at ALL. They do NOT build up the week parts of the body i nthe congragation..they ostrasize them, and keep a small little sect pf people around them. They Treat them selves like GODS right hand man, and are NOT sevents of ALL, and do NOT help the widows, and orphans(as is what a PASTORS job is. Take care of NEW CONVERTS, as well as the sick, the fatherless, adn the husband less....they are to BE substitute Father/husband...and then take OTHERS hands and put them into the HAND of JESUS...and they dont do this.)

    SO since EVERYHTING is upside down adn backwrds, and false teachrs are runnign around calling everyon a false teacher, and "apostels" are raising up becasue they went to school to be one, and have a degree in worship, and no how to summon demons on someone and then bind them...and they call that Castign demons OUT. EVERYTHING is screwy...Which means Satan, and his minions are havign a BLAST.

    Yet God never said that he stoped raising up prophets, and apostels to help Build HIS body. Never. That was mans word. Not GOds. And for man to speak FOR GOD, is evil.

    SO that was my point.

    And i ask again, Evangelist, Pastor, teacher. What is there purpose? To build up the body? So since that IS what there purpose is...and that s ALSO what the purpose of Apostel(very very few) and Prophet(very very few...and WILL NOT BE ON TELVISION NOR WILL THEY HAVE BILLIONS OF FANS<< NOR WILL THEY BE PRAISED BY MAN) are, then That must mean that apostel and prophet are STILL going. FEW...and yes there is false ones, many many many many false ones. But nothing says they stoped.
    ok, let me try again.

    an apostle was a sent one, Sent to start the new thing called the church. (the church is well established. so there is no need to send ones out again, unless you send one to a part of the world where no church has ever excisted)

    A prophet reveals new revelation of Gods word. (Since scripture is complete. God has let us know his revelation to us is complete. thus the office is no longer needed, However, I do believe God can speak through a person (anyone) and do things like tell them to go talk to someone, and reveal something in that persons life to help that person. but this is not a prophet. This would be a general use which can happen to anyone)

    A pastor is a sheppard. The flock still needs a sheppard to help guide them and teach them

    A teacher is a teacher, He is still needed because not everyone is super mature chriistians who know everything about Gods word.

    and evangelist is needed to go out from the church to evangelize the world.

    one thing to notice. After God completed the OT. there were no prophets after this. (for 400 years no less) nor were there sent out ones. Gods word was cpmpleteWhy should it be any different when the NT was completed?

    After 400 years, John the Baptist came, he was needed to point to Christ.

    After how ever much time God is waiting. Christ will return again. Until then. we do not need prophets or apostles. There work has been completed.

    we had prophets while scripture was being written. When each part was done. No prophets were sent.. why?
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

    [quote=eternally-gratefull;512800]
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadflesh View Post

    ok, let me try again.

    an apostle was a sent one, Sent to start the new thing called the church. (the church is well established. so there is no need to send ones out again, unless you send one to a part of the world where no church has ever excisted)

    Right, which is why they are still being raised up. most TRUE misionaries(who arent part of a comitty but were called by GOD himself are most likely apostles. They are many many places taht have no TRUE CHURCH(body of christ) either they follow a false gospel, or none at all)

    A prophet reveals new revelation of Gods word. (Since scripture is complete. God has let us know his revelation to us is complete. thus the office is no longer needed, However, I do believe God can speak through a person (anyone) and do things like tell them to go talk to someone, and reveal something in that persons life to help that person. but this is not a prophet. This would be a general use which can happen to anyone)

    Amen!! and i agree! I do still beleive the PROPHETs arestill in existence though(which is not the gift of prophesy, and is not someone, like you said, with a word from God...but these prophets will not be baostfull in anythign but the cross and jesus blood, and they will most likely not be in the public eye)



    A pastor is a sheppard. The flock still needs a sheppard to help guide them and teach them

    A teacher is a teacher, He is still needed because not everyone is super mature chriistians who know everything about Gods word.

    and evangelist is needed to go out from the church to evangelize the world.

    one thing to notice. After God completed the OT. there were no prophets after this. (for 400 years no less) nor were there sent out ones. Gods word was cpmpleteWhy should it be any different when the NT was completed?

    No, see that wasnt a GOOD thing...God cursed them he casued a SPiritual fammine. LIKE TODAY. we have new agey spirits all over the place...but the spirit of GOD is few and far between.(and i belive will get fewer and fewer...untill there is a exact distinction between those wit hthe spirit of god, adn those wit hthe spirit of the world(claiming to be filled with the spirit of God)

    After 400 years, John the Baptist came, he was needed to point to Christ.

    Yes. Amen! He was the first to be filled with the spirit(luke 1:15) in 400 years.(still OT at that time)

    After how ever much time God is waiting. Christ will return again. Until then. we do not need prophets or apostles. There work has been completed.

    Thats wht i dissagree on, and dont see. WHAT work has been completed? not the work stated in ephesians 4. That is NOT done. No evidence to prove its done, and all sorts of division, and heresies to prove otherwise. We are NOT perfect in the knowledge of Jesus. in fact we most likely have very limited(yet increasing ) knowledge of him. I DO belive that FALSE signs and wonders will increase, as will FALSE prophets. But if the bible warns of FALES prophets...then that means there will be TRUE prophets. Jesus doesnt say, watch out for peopel calling themselves prophets, but wont be becasue by that time all scriptrue will be perfectly cannonised, adn you will know all thigns becasue of the bible) no...he doesnt say that. No, THE LORD who knows all thigns, and was very exact in his words, says Watch out for FALSEPROPHETS, who wont be prophets, but wolves.

    we had prophets while scripture was being written. When each part was done. No prophets were sent.. why?
    Im not to clear on that last part. But thank you for taking the time to clarify.
    "We are more frightened of holiness than we are of sin” - Leonard Ravenhill

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