Office of Evengelist, pastor, teacher. Why?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D

Deadflesh

Guest
#1
#1
I know there seems to be allot of these threads. But i hate posting on others threads, because i feel it take the light of of them and puts it on me. So I post my own. The point of this thread is to get YOUR ANSWERS(even if they are opinions) of WHY there are still THESE 3 offices in work, But not the other two. PLEASE no snarky responces.

Ephesians 4:11-And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

This is saying that HE(The LORD Jesus Christ) Gave us the offices of ALL 5(or 4) are for the equipping, and building up, untill we atain unity in the body of Christ...etc.


So, That means that a:
Apostle is for this purpose.
Prophet is for this purpose.
Evangelist is for this purpose.
Pastor is for this purpose.
Teacher is for this purpose.

I know there is Satans Counterfit, of everything God has, and that would make it FALSE. but forget about the FALSE for a minute.

NOW We have Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher. But WHY? Why do we have these 3? What is there purpose?


PLEASE i want to know WHY we have THESE THREE. Thank you. Jesus bless you.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#2
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#2
Are you saying the other two of ceased or are you asking those that believe they have why they do not think these three have not also ceased?
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
#3
#3
4runner said:
Are you saying the other two of ceased or are you asking those that believe they have why they do not think these three have not also ceased?
Click to expand...

Im asking what is the purpose of these 3. Thats all im asking in this thread. So please. What do YOU think the purpose to these three are? EVERYONE here can agree that we have THESE THREE, so what are thier purpose?
 
M

mpaper345

Banned
#4
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#4
It could be all 3 do the same thing,preach the truth,neither office having more knowledge than the others for all can learn the truth equally,as the Bible says that we need not any man teach us for the Spirit will teach us,so the common man can know as much as them.

But the world does not know and needs someone to help them,like the word says how can they know unless a preacher is sent to them.

It seems like the evangelist is someone who travels spreading the truth,where a pastor is someone that leads a congregation in a certain area,and a teacher teaches the truth to one person or a few,but all would have the same knowledge as each other by the Spirit.
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
#5
#5
mpaper345 said:
It could be all 3 do the same thing,preach the truth,neither office having more knowledge than the others for all can learn the truth equally,as the Bible says that we need not any man teach us for the Spirit will teach us,so the common man can know as much as them.

But the world does not know and needs someone to help them,like the word says how can they know unless a preacher is sent to them.

It seems like the evangelist is someone who travels spreading the truth,where a pastor is someone that leads a congregation in a certain area,and a teacher teaches the truth to one person or a few,but all would have the same knowledge as each other by the Spirit.
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering :) so would you say they are to build up the Church into MORE knowledge of Who JESUS is, and to unify us, in strong faith?
 
4

4runner

Banned
#6
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#6
Deadflesh said:
Im asking what is the purpose of these 3. Thats all im asking in this thread. So please. What do YOU think the purpose to these three are? EVERYONE here can agree that we have THESE THREE, so what are thier purpose?
Click to expand...
Well, the text tells us why.... for the perfecting of the saints ect...............
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
#7
#7
4runner said:
Well, the text tells us why.... for the perfecting of the saints ect...............
Click to expand...

Kinda my point. I know everyone here has a pastor(whether or not its a biblical idea of what a pastor does..is not the discussion right now) Everyoen here has known a Evengelist. And everyone here Listens too, and follows Bible Teachers.


So ALL people here know that these three are active. And i can almost garantee that they would also agree that they are for Equiping, and building up, perfecting of the Saints.


So, if THOSE offices are active. and for what Ephesians 4 says they are for. What about the first two?

To say that the first two are gone. Well Why are they Gone? And if they are Gone. then why are the last 3 still here?
 
4

4runner

Banned
#8
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#8
Deadflesh said:
So, if THOSE offices are active. and for what Ephesians 4 says they are for. What about the first two?

To say that the first two are gone. Well Why are they Gone? And if they are Gone. then why are the last 3 still here?
Click to expand...
Good questions.
 
D

distinctiveministry

Banned
#9
Mar 2, 2010
537
3
0
#9
I think that it is a mistake in the first place to view these as "offices"- i.e. a self-existing sociological construct. They are not offices- voids to be filled- but gifted people. If they were offices then every local church should have a pastor, a teacher, an evangelist, a prophet, and an apostle. And if one person who was fulfilling any given office should cease to hold that position, then a new one would need to be chosen or appointed, regardless of giftedness. Some churches function without all of these gifts present (most do, in fact), but God has not provided to each church these gifts, but to the church universal.
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
#10
#10
distinctiveministry said:
I think that it is a mistake in the first place to view these as "offices"- i.e. a self-existing sociological construct. They are not offices- voids to be filled- but gifted people. If they were offices then every local church should have a pastor, a teacher, an evangelist, a prophet, and an apostle. And if one person who was fulfilling any given office should cease to hold that position, then a new one would need to be chosen or appointed, regardless of giftedness. Some churches function without all of these gifts present (most do, in fact), but God has not provided to each church these gifts, but to the church universal.
Click to expand...

Yeah i agree. They arent "offices" to be filled. But GIFTS in and of themselvs "HE GAVE" some to be...etc Gifts of GOD. to Be these things are Blessings in and of themselves.

(...and actually EACH CITY church woudl have peopel with theses gifts to go in and out of the City. Apostels beign the rarest, Pastor/teacher being the most common...but we have divided so much..that CITY church is looked at with questioning eyes...yet its BIBLICAL and prefered. The bible says to appoint an ELder in ever CITY. We do thigns backwards from the Bible if you REALLY want to get down to it. We send peopel to the Man appointed Elders of the Church WE attend...yet That guy could be absolutely no one...and maybe not even Bornagain(at least in some churches in america that could be the case) And the little old lady in the back of the church coudl be the SPIRITUAL Elder...and the guy who claims to be evangelist/apostel/prophet/ and saved 50 years...could be fileld with sin pride and strife, and be a baby Christian...if one at all...)

But Anyway, i was using common termanology, becasue, well its common, and I REALLY want to not diviate from the subject of this thread as to WHY.

And sadly...it doesnt seem like Many peopel will actually give me an answer. But i re state:

WHY are the 3 still active, but not the first two?
 
4

4runner

Banned
#11
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#11
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#12
#12
question: what is the difference between the offices?
 
D

distinctiveministry

Banned
#13
Mar 2, 2010
537
3
0
#13
Deadflesh said:
Yeah i agree. They arent "offices" to be filled. But GIFTS in and of themselvs "HE GAVE" some to be...etc Gifts of GOD. to Be these things are Blessings in and of themselves.

(...and actually EACH CITY church woudl have peopel with theses gifts to go in and out of the City. Apostels beign the rarest, Pastor/teacher being the most common...but we have divided so much..that CITY church is looked at with questioning eyes...yet its BIBLICAL and prefered. The bible says to appoint an ELder in ever CITY. We do thigns backwards from the Bible if you REALLY want to get down to it. We send peopel to the Man appointed Elders of the Church WE attend...yet That guy could be absolutely no one...and maybe not even Bornagain(at least in some churches in america that could be the case) And the little old lady in the back of the church coudl be the SPIRITUAL Elder...and the guy who claims to be evangelist/apostel/prophet/ and saved 50 years...could be fileld with sin pride and strife, and be a baby Christian...if one at all...)

But Anyway, i was using common termanology, becasue, well its common, and I REALLY want to not diviate from the subject of this thread as to WHY.

And sadly...it doesnt seem like Many peopel will actually give me an answer. But i re state:

WHY are the 3 still active, but not the first two?
Click to expand...
I don't agree with what I'm about to say, but I've had this conversation enough that I think I can accurately say what people who feel like these two "offices" have ceased would say:

Apostles and prophets were people who received divine revelation from God and communicated that revelation to His people. Once divine revelation was infallibly transcribed into the epistles and books that make up our NT, the revelatory function of these two positions was no longer necessary. Some would go even further and claim that new revelation either "competes" with scripture and therefore cannot be of divine origin, or restates what is already in scripture and is not new.
 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#14
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#14
Deadflesh said:
I know there seems to be allot of these threads. But i hate posting on others threads, because i feel it take the light of of them and puts it on me. So I post my own. The point of this thread is to get YOUR ANSWERS(even if they are opinions) of WHY there are still THESE 3 offices in work, But not the other two. PLEASE no snarky responces.

Ephesians 4:11-And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

This is saying that HE(The LORD Jesus Christ) Gave us the offices of ALL 5(or 4) are for the equipping, and building up, untill we atain unity in the body of Christ...etc.


So, That means that a:
Apostle is for this purpose.
Prophet is for this purpose.
Evangelist is for this purpose.
Pastor is for this purpose.
Teacher is for this purpose.

I know there is Satans Counterfit, of everything God has, and that would make it FALSE. but forget about the FALSE for a minute.

NOW We have Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher. But WHY? Why do we have these 3? What is there purpose?


PLEASE i want to know WHY we have THESE THREE. Thank you. Jesus bless you.
Click to expand...
Well if we're going to pretend some of it's dead lets pretend all of it's dead. Means there's no such thing as a Christian and we're all just wasting our time. No blood nothing. I'm tired of foolish junk.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#15
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
loveschild said:
Well if we're going to pretend some of it's dead lets pretend all of it's dead. Means there's no such thing as a Christian and we're all just wasting our time. No blood nothing. I'm tired of foolish junk.
Click to expand...
go study properly linda.
your stuff is made up.
nobody said anything is dead.
Paul said the REAL supernatural offices and gifts would cease. and they did.
whatever you're into now is closer to paganism than Christianity.
now that's foolisness.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#16
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#16
distinctiveministry said:
I don't agree with what I'm about to say, but I've had this conversation enough that I think I can accurately say what people who feel like these two "offices" have ceased would say:

Apostles and prophets were people who received divine revelation from God and communicated that revelation to His people. Once divine revelation was infallibly transcribed into the epistles and books that make up our NT, the revelatory function of these two positions was no longer necessary. Some would go even further and claim that new revelation either "competes" with scripture and therefore cannot be of divine origin, or restates what is already in scripture and is not new.
Click to expand...
DM
you lay out the Biblical reality perfectly but don't agree with it!! LOL!
typical liberal (but i love ya:D you're my favourite liberal)
zone.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#19
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#19
4runner said:
How ironic for you of all people to say such a thing

Not until the return of Christ.
Click to expand...
are you still at it?
yawn
call me when you MATURE (perfect) some.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.