What is 'the fear of God'--is it still necessary for a Christian or not???

[BLC]

That is an odd thing to accuse someone who has been reconciled to God themselves, and teaches others of their for to be. You are way off base, if you think because I do not think a habitual, unrepentant sinner cannot be a Christian unless they repent and remiss from sin as Jesus Himself taught, that that somehow means that I do not believe God reconciles man to Himself. This simply shows you lack of understand of what true reconciliation is.

Jesus said whom th4e Son sets free is free indeed. How can you claim to be free if you are still in bondage to sin?

How does God reconcile a sinner to Himself through His Son? When that reconciliation takes place does the sinner cease from sin? Does the sinner cease from failure and from transgressing a brother? Can a reconciled sinner who has become an adopted son backslide into sin for a season? Can the God of all grace and the Father of all mercy restore that backslidden son 100% with no probation? Where does the grace of God come in to the picture when sin abounds? Does grace much more abound or does God leave the fallen sinner in their sin? God sent His Son because He did not want to leave us in our sin.

When we believed we were cleansed from ALL sin, if that is not true then we could not have been completely reconciled to God and you can't undo reconciliation or walk away from it because God won't let you. You belong to Him and have been bought with a price and you are not your own to do that. He has begun a good work in you and will perform that work until the day of redemption. We are hid with Christ in God forever and that has been sealed. No one can come in and take you out and you can not leave not matter how confused and defeated you may feel. Lot made his bed in the hell of Sodom but was delivered because he was righteous, though he was vexed by the filthy lifestyle of the wicked and had incest with his daughters who got him drunk. These were the same two daughters (who were married) that Lot offered the men of Sodom to do as they wish in place of the two angel that came as strangers. Can you explain how Lot was a righteous man, with no evidence that he had ever repented for those wicked sins.

 

[Chocolate]

Just wondering....I was going to write the thread as 'are baptists God-fearing Christians' or do they prefer just the term 'God-loving Christians'...are those two terms exclusive, aka can you not be both?

The verses I see to consider are 'Perfect love casts out fear'...but also all of proverbs tells of how fear of the Lord is essential...but then again Soloman was led astray by his many wives in old age...

But also in Acts, the author speaks of churches being built on the fear of the Lord, developing and multiplying...

Even in baptists churches I have heard people say that when you fear God, you no longer fear anything...

I undeerstand that born-again is also essential to a description of a believer, but I am not dealing with this in this thread...I just wanna know about the fear of the Lord...

God bless and may God's grace enrich us all
antony of the wounded LORD​

Read Proverbs and 1 John. That will help.

 

[sweetie36]

I have heard some Pastors talk about Fearing God. We should Fear God.

 

[watchmen]

How does God reconcile a sinner to Himself through His Son? When that reconciliation takes place does the sinner cease from sin? Does the sinner cease from failure and from transgressing a brother? Can a reconciled sinner who has become an adopted son backslide into sin for a season? Can the God of all grace and the Father of all mercy restore that backslidden son 100% with no probation? Where does the grace of God come in to the picture when sin abounds? Does grace much more abound or does God leave the fallen sinner in their sin? God sent His Son because He did not want to leave us in our sin.

God can and does reconcile sinners to Himself, and if they fall He picks them up again. As far as your question of does God leave the fallen sinner in sin, that is up to the sinner if they will or will not repent and turn back to God

When we believed we were cleansed from ALL sin, if that is not true then we could not have been completely reconciled to God and you can't undo reconciliation or walk away from it because God won't let you.

This is were you are wrong. God will let you do whatever you choose to do. He loves you and wants you to choose life with Him, He wants you to walk in reconciliation, but He will not force you to do anything.

 

[BLC]

watchmen,

I ask you again, how does God reconcile a sinner to Himself through His Son? Explain the process of reconciliation as you understand it from the scriptures. Through reconciliation what happens to sin? Can you explain how Lot was a righteous and just man with all the sin that surrounded his life?

 

[MaggieMye]

"I ask you again, how does God reconcile a sinner to Himself through His Son? Explain the process of reconciliation as you understand it from the scriptures. Through reconciliation what happens to sin? Can you explain how Lot was a righteous and just man with all the sin that surrounded his life?"

In the OT, God requires shed blood for the atonement of sin. He establishes a New Covenant in and through Jesus with the shedding of HIS blood, the perfect blood, the completely PURE blood for the atonement for ALL sin. When we, as believers, accept the sacrifice that Jesus made on our behalf, we are washed free from all past sin and then stand righteous before the Father.
How is it that Lot could remain righteous...not sin free, but righteous for God knows the heart...? He had a RELATIONSHIP with the Lord God. It is the only way that he could remain righteous amongst all that sin and not participate in it.
Remember, everyone of the prophets had to deal with sin in their own lives. Every one of them committed some type of sin...whether in word or deed is irrelevant. But they remained righteous because they repented.
Maggie

 

[BLC]

MaggieMye,

When you believed upon Christ you were made righteous. God gave you His righteousness as a gift through faith and you can't get anymore righteous then that. You and I are just as righteous as Jesus Christ because we have His righteousness. The gift of God's righteousness was not given to us because we did not have sin, but rather was given to us by God through faith in Christ as a sinner. So if we sin, God's righteousness is not forfeited by us or taken from us by God because we received it by faith through Christ. Repentance has no ability and no power to impart God's righteousness and no power to maintain that righteousness in us. God maintains His own righteousness in us through the power of His grace. We are just as righteous before God when we sin as when we don't sin. The difference is that when we sin we do not reveal the righteousness of God in us and all unrighteousness is sin. But sin does not change our state and standing before God.

Before God, Lot was just as righteous before he sinned as he was after he had sinned. So when God looks at a sinner, He is looking to see if they have His righteousness so that he can declare them righteous. Could they be having a problem with sin, even besetting sins, YES!. The sin does not justify whether we are righteous or not, it is whether we have God's righteousness given to us when they believed. We are justified by grace and through faith. The righteousness of God does not work sin in our life nor has any fellowship with sin either. That is why, when we sin grace abounds toward us and we can immediately confess it to God to be cleansed from the unrighteous of that sin and be completely restored because sin does not work the righteousness of God. When the believer understands this, they will not have problems knowing what to do about sin, they will have no condemnation and they will realize that they can loss nothing that God has given to them by grace and through faith.

 

[cornflakes]

God is my father.So the kind of fear I would have is for me not to disappoint Him, its out of respect as a in a child respecting his father and not wanting to disappoint the father by not listening. Its not fearing Him as a stranger or someone scary.How would I go to Him with all that is on my heart if I feared Him

 

[watchmen]

watchmen,

I ask you again, how does God reconcile a sinner to Himself through His Son? Explain the process of reconciliation as you understand it from the scriptures. Through reconciliation what happens to sin?

If we believe in our heart that Jesus died for our sin and that God rose Him from the dead, and if we confess Him as Lord then we are reconciled to God (Romans 9:10) and our ''PAST'' sins are forgotten(Romans 3:25). Now as long as we continue to hold on to our faith (Colossians 1:21-23), asking for forgiveness when we make mistakes, confessing our sins to God (1st John 1:9) and endure until the end we will receive final salvation at either our death or the return of Christ which ever comes first (Matthew 10:22, Mark 13:13).

Can you explain how Lot was a righteous and just man with all the sin that surrounded his life?

Because he believed, trusted in, and tried his best to serve God.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Peace be to you
I don not fear God.God is Love and just.I fear he will leave me in a Godless place.
I once thought evil didnt exist.I was sore mistaken.The lower parts of the earth are very terrifing.

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations.

Then say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD, The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself.

Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near, and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries.

Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed.Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.

In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.
In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood: and in thee they eat upon the mountains: in the midst of thee they commit lewdness.
In thee have they discovered their fathers' nakedness: in thee have they humbled her that was set apart for pollution.

And one hath committed abomination with his neighbour's wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his father's daughter.

In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD.

Behold, therefore I have smitten mine hand at thy dishonest gain which thou hast made, and at thy blood which hath been in the midst of thee.

Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the LORD have spoken it, and will do it.
This is are example of what not to do.



Love a friend in God

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[watchmen]

God is my father.So the kind of fear I would have is for me not to disappoint Him, its out of respect as a in a child respecting his father and not wanting to disappoint the father by not listening. Its not fearing Him as a stranger or someone scary.How would I go to Him with all that is on my heart if I feared Him

Awe that is nice...

 

[BLC]

God is my father.So the kind of fear I would have is for me not to disappoint Him, its out of respect as a in a child respecting his father and not wanting to disappoint the father by not listening. Its not fearing Him as a stranger or someone scary.How would I go to Him with all that is on my heart if I feared Him

You have made such a beautiful point that only a child of our Father could make with such simplicity and trust. The most common definitions of the word that has been translated as 'fear' could have been better translated as 'trust' in most instances.

 

[MaggieMye]

BLC wrote"
When you believed upon Christ you were made righteous.yes God gave you His righteousness as a gift through faith and you can't get anymore righteous then that.yes You and I are just as righteous as Jesus Christ because we have His righteousness. The gift of God's righteousness was not given to us because we did not have sin, but rather was given to us by God through faith in Christ as a sinner.yes So if we sin, God's righteousness is not forfeited by us or taken from us by God because we received it by faith through Christ.however WE forfeite righteousness when we refuse to repent...we are then in rebellion, not righteousness. Repentance has no ability and no power to impart God's righteousness and no power to maintain that righteousness in us.Of course not. The ABILITY to repent is a choice that one of righteous CHARACTER chooses to do; having said that, one that chooses not to repent is no longer righteous in their character but is rebellious God maintains His own righteousness in us through the power of His grace. We are just as righteous before God when we sin as when we don't sin. I disagree. When we sin and do NOT repent, God cannot look upon us for He cannot look upon sin. The application of the cross and the shed blood APPLIED to the sin, in repentance, once again puts us in right standing with God. The difference is that when we sin we do not reveal the righteousness of God in us and all unrighteousness is sin.I agree with this, but it is a choice to live righteously and only when we do so is His righteousness reveal in and through us. But sin does not change our state and standing before God. Yes it does. If it didn't then there would not be the verses that tell that liars and fornicators cannot enter into the kingdom or that a name can be removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Before God, Lot was just as righteous before he sinned as he was after he had sinned. So when God looks at a sinner, He is looking to see if they have His righteousness so that he can declare them righteous.Lot repented and God knew his heart. What I'm referring to as not 'remaining' righteous is the person who does not have a heart to repent. Could they be having a problem with sin, even besetting sins, YES!. The sin does not justify whether we are righteous or not, it is whether we have God's righteousness given to us when they believed. We are justified by grace and through faith. The righteousness of God does not work sin in our life nor has any fellowship with sin either. That is why, when we sin grace abounds toward us and we can immediately confess it to God to be cleansed from the unrighteous like I said of that sin and be completely restored because sin does not work the righteousness of God. When the believer understands this, they will not have problems knowing what to do about sin, they will have no condemnation and they will realize that they can loss nothing that God has given to them by grace and through faith. Then we agree!
Maggie

 

[watchmen]

Remember, everyone of the prophets had to deal with sin in their own lives. Every one of them committed some type of sin...whether in word or deed is irrelevant. But they remained righteous because they repented.

Your last statement was key. Repentance is the key to staying ''righteous'' or in a right relationship with the Father.

 

[BLC]

It seems that repentance is a very misunderstood subject and the the application of it in the life of a believer. I don't want to repeat what others have said about it, so I'll begin here. When people refer to repentance they seem to involve individual or personal sin. Every believer has a sin nature that lives within the members (or cells) of their human body and it will not go away until they receive a new glorified body, that Christ will give them at the resurrection. The old sin nature (OSN) that we have as believers is what produces sin in our lives. That OSN can not be repented of. You can't do away with the OSN through repentance. Paul demonstrated that in (Rom ch. 5,6,7). Death through the cross is the only thing that can deal with the OSN and it does so by crucifying it, not eliminating it. If the cross eliminated the OSN we would not have any problem with sin and there would be no need for the cross or the blood of Christ any longer and we could produce through procreation an offspring that is no longer conceived in sin. But we know that is not true or is happening. We are conceived in sin (Ps 51:5) and born speaking lies the Bible tells us in (Ps 58:3).

Paul never tried to repent of his OSN, but said that when he sinned or did evil, it was not him but the sin that was dwelling in him (Rom 7:19,20). Then in (v/27) he said 'Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death'? That question was never answered by repentance. His deliverance was not going to be by repentance but he was going to confess the truth of 'NO CONDEMNATION'. He wasn't going to condemn himself in anything he did in relationship to sin or evil because he knew it was not him but the sin that was in him. I wonder how many believers really think the way Paul did about sin? And repentance has no place in any of this. In (Rom ch 5,6,7,8) you can't find repentance anywhere. The reason for this is that we can not repent of the OSN that is responsible for all the sin in our life.

The only thing we can do is thank Jesus Christ that He was judged once and for all sin and put it away forever and will not condemn us for sin. If we can not repent of our OSN, neither can we repent of the sins that is produces. But rather, we reckon ourselves to be dead to sin and alive unto God. We reckon to be dead to sin instead of trying to repent of sin. Reckoning to be dead to sin gives us the power to be free from the law of sin and death, because sin was crucified by the death of Christ. Death deals with sin not repentance. Believers have been repenting of sin (in sincerity) all their life and never get victory over sin, because they replace the cross with repentance and that does not work. When we sin we confess it to God and reckon ourselves to be dead to it. We don't keep sin alive so that we have to repent of it. We lay aside and put off the sin that so easily besets us because that sin is dead.

 

[watchmen]

Your whole argument crumbles to the ground with Romans 8. Although within ourselves cannot overcome sin. Jesus has given us His Spirit ''The Holy Spirit'' to empowers us to do what we could not do on our own and that is to become free from sin. Of course within ourselves we cannot overcome sin but through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us we can. That is why Paul tells us to walk in the Spirit and not in our own flesh. Your famous NO CONDEMNATION is for those that walk in the Spirit only.
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[BLC]

First of all in (Rom 8:1) most manuscripts don't have 'who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit'. The translators of the KLV added it because of (v/4) that has the same wording. Because it was added you use it as a qualifier for no condemnation in (v/1). Then you conclude that it is absolutely impossible for anyone that has the Spirit of God dwelling in them to be carnally minded. You conclude that all believers that have the Spirit can never be carnal, therefore there is no such thing as a carnal believer. So, if to be carnally minded is death, how can any true believer, who has the Spirit, ever have any sin in their life again?

The wages of sin is death and to be carnally minded is also death, then sin and the carnal mind go together. For me to have any sin is to be carnal. As you believe, if you have the Spirit dwelling in you, you don't walk after the flesh but after the Spirit and if that exempts you from being carnally minded then you can't have sin either. That is what you are saying, right? If you are always walking after the Spirit, you will never have a problem with any sin, therefore there is no need for repentance because you have no sin to repent of. If you have had any sin in your life you are yet carnal and never had the Spirit, according to you. So the guy that looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart and therefore must be carnal without the Spirit, right?

Since the Spirit of God has come to dwell within you, have you always walk in the Spirit and not fulfilled the lust of the flesh, not even one time? Have you been so perfect in your walk with God that there has been no need to repent of one single thing? Have you been perfect in your walk today and every single thought has been without sin because you brought every thought and imagination unto obedience? Have you had a vain thought today, because that is an empty thought without the life of God and it is sin? Has your conversation or any word that came from your mouth ever communicate anything corrupt or has it always ministered grace? Have you ever judged, slandered, maligned or spoken evil of a brother or any man? Have you always forgiven your brother instantly and perfectly, with no remembrance of the trespass, as God has forgiven you?

John was speaking to believers and included himself in his statement by using a personal pronoun, 'If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us' (1John 1:8). Who was he speaking to, those that are carnal without the Spirit? Who are the ones that are to confess their sin in (v/9)? Then again in (v/10), if we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. To have fellowship we must always walk in the light (v/6). Are you going to tell me that you always have fellowship because you always walk in the light? If that is so why do the scriptures teach that it is possible for a believer to fall? If it is not possible for a believer who has the Spirit to sin, why teach about confessing sin? The only one according to you, that can confess or repent of sin is the carnally minded person who is not a believer and has not the Spirit.

 

[watchmen]

First of all in (Rom 8:1) most manuscripts don't have 'who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit'. The translators of the KJV added it because of (v/4) that has the same wording.

#1 You cannot just dismiss scripture because it does fit your view
#2 The KJV is the Bible the rest are just translation, and or delusions of the truth.
#3 Verse 4 as you said clarifies the fact that only those that are walking in the Spirit are exempt from condemnation regardless of whether the phrase ''who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit'' is included in verse 1 or not.

When Romans 8 is read in context especially verses 1-14 it is clearly saying that since we cannot overcome sin within our own flesh we must walk in the Spirit to please God and if we continue in the flesh we will be condemned. However people such as you use 1/2 of one verse to teach the complete oposite. I wonder who is guiding you to teach this fallacy.

 

[BLC]

Leaving the phrase in the 'b' part of (Rom 8:1) is not a problem. The only thing part 'b' does in that verse is clarify and modify (as it does in verse 4 ) the person who is in Christ. Anyone would know, if they thought it through, that those who have not believed are not in Christ and can't walk in the Spirit but only in the flesh. At the the same time it is not saying that the believer, who is in Christ, is exempt from the flesh, because they are not. The flesh has been crucified but the believer must walk in the Spirit so they do not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Gal 5:16). That is good and sound and balanced understanding of the scriptures that any believer can grasp at any level or any age, because they have the Spirit also.

 

[NoahsMom]

I would say I fear dis-pleasing God, or to be found wanting in his eyes. Also the fact that God means what he says, and hes the same everyday I fear goin against what I know is considered wrong in his teachings, and what he wants for us as his children. I wouldnt say I fear him as I think he looks at us as we look at our own children, when they fall, we want to pick them up, when we hurt, he hurts, when I think of God , I think of the way I love my kids, only God loves us way more than we can begin to comprehend. I would agree it goes along with respect.