The New Heresies and Cultists

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#1
Divination, Mysticism, and Spiritual Formation Radio Broadcasts

[or: how to listen to demons and think they are Jesus]

The Dangers of Contemplative Prayer
The Dangers of Spiritual Formation, Part 1
The Dangers of Spiritual Formation, Part 2
The Dangers of Contemplative Prayer
Christian Divination: The Dangers of Mysticism, Part 1
The Dangers of Divination, Part 1
The Dangers of Divination, Part 2

http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=divination

ALL AUDIO
BOB DEWAAY
he came out of the movement
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
Mike Bickle “Want” Contemplative Mysticism Book to be “the manual for IHOP–KC.”

July 28th, 2011 | Author: A Ministry in His Service


by John Lanagan
My Word Like Fire Ministries

Much of the literature being sold through the International House of Prayer’s online FORERUNNER Bookstore indicates a contemplative influence. One such book being offered is Fire Within, written by Father Thomas Dubay.IHOP founder Mike Bickle states, “I want this book to be the manual for IHOP-KC.” [1]

That is high praise indeed from Mike Bickle. The full title of the book is Fire Within: St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and the Gospel–On Prayer. Incredibly, Bickle’s “manual” is about Catholic, contemplative mystics! Also for sale on the website are books by and about St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and even Madame Guyon.

Another book being offered is The Forgotten Desert Mothers, by Laura Swan. Swan writes, “We begin to discard our old ways and go in search of new ways of of communicating with God. Our prayer matures and takes on new forms.” [2] And what are these new forms? Swan states, ”Centering prayer, lectio divina, Christian meditation, Taize, and the Divine Office are all sought. Prayer moves us toward the simple: often sitting silently before the Divine–in contemplative or centering prayer–is all we feel drawn to do.” [3] To continue reading and for footnotes, click here.

Related:
To understand more about IHOP and the Kansas City “Prophets,” read The Other Side of the River and Beware the New Prophets (Bill Randles)

Mike Bickle On Contemplative Prayer by Hungry Hearts Ministry
MIKE BICKLE AND MIKE HUCKABEE TEAM UP FOR “THECALL” REVIVAL CONFERENCE by Roger Beach
Contemplative Spirituality and the Emerging Church Come to Kansas Through YouthFront and MNU

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?cat=197

from: Archive for the ‘False Signs and Wonders’ Category
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#4
That Dreaded Word . . . HERESY!!

May 3rd, 2011 |
Author: Lighthouse Trails author

By Kevin Reeves

(from The Other Side of the River: When mystical experiences and strange doctrines overtake his church, one man risks all to find the truth—A true story.)

Kevin Reeves was an elder and a member of a “River” (Latter Rain, Word Faith, etc) church for many years. His book, The Other Side of the River (Lighthouse Trails Publishing) chronicles those years and the story of how he and his wife were able to finally understand and leave this movement in exchange for biblical Christianity.

From Chapter 12
Nearly everyone in our leadership cringed at the actual utterance of the word heresy. At its every mention, they regarded me with an alarmed expression that nearly yelled, “Don’t say that!” and avoided the use of the term as if it were an unclean thing. Even presented with the Word of Faith doctrine that states the physical death of Christ on the Cross did not accomplish salvation, their heads would shake, mouths tighten, and hands would go up to bring a halt to further discussion.

It’s as if it is considered unloving to bring serious departure from the Christian faith out into the light, and openly name the person involved. Interestingly, Paul had no such compunction (II Timothy 2:17-18), nor did the apostle John (3 John 9-10). Jesus called out the Pharisees to their face, in front of multitudes. We have the pattern set forth in the Word, but we simply refused to follow it, shrinking back behind an unbiblical definition of love.

What exactly is heresy? In II Peter 2:1, the word is used in the plural to indicate those who would bring in doctrines that contradict the Gospel set forth by our Lord and His apostles. In the Greek, the word—hairesis—comes from a word meaning “choice or opinion.” Teachings contrary to the doctrine of Christ are built upon “imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God” (II Corinthians 10:5). They are the result of a minister’s (or anyone’s) personal choice to depart into another realm, “intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind” (Colossians 2:18). Heresies are mere opinions given a godly veneer, persuasive argument based upon assumptions, ideas, dreams and visions not grounded in the revealed Word of God.

Heresy is not a light thing. In this relativistic, tolerant age, it is wrongly considered good manners to look the other way when someone expresses disagreement with objective truth. We have begun to find common ground, as some would put it, and link arms with Mormons and Muslims, believing the theological divide is not as wide as we had thought. Instead of bravely upholding the standard of scriptural inerrancy, we succumb to a redefinition of the very Gospel of our salvation which was once for all delivered unto the saints (Jude 3).

We have conveniently forgotten the martyrs who stood faithful to our Lord under penalty of death, who clung to the pure Word of God as the flames licked the soles of their bare feet, and the smoke of their own burning flesh seared their nostrils. We, who have never shed a drop of our own blood in defense of the Gospel, turn our backs upon those who have.

In the first of [our church's] eldership meetings, when I brought out the courageous faith of the early reformers, one leader rebuked me and told me not to bring that up. I was stunned. Why not talk about our forefathers in the faith? If not for some of the early reformers, most of us would be Catholic. I remember well the feeling of being lost in a system of rules and superstition, and leaving the interpretation of Scripture to a clergy that sacrifices Christ again with every Mass. No, we must never forget or disparage the martyrs who “overcame him [the devil] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death” (Revelation 12:11).
And yet, a new kind of Christian has taken the place of those earlier defenders of the faith. They have traded biblical Christianity for an experiential, mystical spirituality. Brothers and sisters, this shouldn’t be! While there have always been Christian leaders and teachers who pervert the doctrine of Christ, we live in a time where there seems to be an increase of false doctrine permeating the halls of Christendom. We must not shy away from facing these heresies head-on.

False doctrines and the practices that come with them do not set free—rather they enslave their adherents and hinder them from truly knowing God. This bondage was one of the main issues facing my wife and me upon examining the un-biblical doctrines we had been taught. As long as we believed the false, we were hemmed in on every side, backed into a corner by superstition and unbelief. Both of us having left one system of that ilk (Roman Catholicism), we had jumped feet first into another, and avoided the liberating message set forth in the Gospel. As with every religious system outside of the Gospel, do this, don’t do that, don’t touch, grab for this—a manmade set of rules had rendered the Word of God of no effect.

Quite frankly, I grew very tired of the whole affair. . . . Every time we turned around, a new revelation steered us in another direction. My spiritual legs became heavy from running after every “wind of doctrine” that blew through our ranks. There was never a place of satisfaction, that Sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrews 4. While the anointing we pursued promised to be refreshing, all it did was hone, razor-sharp, the craving for another spiritual high. We at New Covenant were caught up on an unceasing merry-go-round.

But we are not so different from Old Testament Israel. They, too, ran after new and exciting ways of worship. They, too, thrilled at false signs and wonders, hung on the words of their multiplied false prophets, and substituted idols for the true God. But seeking the satisfaction they craved, they ran right past the only One who could offer it. The result was a maddening mix of gods that spiritually bled them dry.

Our Lord’s remedy for them holds as true for us today. “Return, thou backsliding Israel and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you, for I am merciful” (Jeremiah. 3:12). We need to repent and return to Christ, who gives life and genuine refreshment:

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (John 6:35)

Also from The Other Side of the River:
Chapter 1
“Touch Not Mine Anointed”
Latter Rain: The Spawning of Apostasy
“I Just Had a Vision!”

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?cat=197
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
That Dreaded Word . . . HERESY!!

May 3rd, 2011 |
Author: Lighthouse Trails author

By Kevin Reeves

(from The Other Side of the River: When mystical experiences and strange doctrines overtake his church, one man risks all to find the truth—A true story.)

Kevin Reeves was an elder and a member of a “River” (Latter Rain, Word Faith, etc) church for many years. His book, The Other Side of the River (Lighthouse Trails Publishing) chronicles those years and the story of how he and his wife were able to finally understand and leave this movement in exchange for biblical Christianity.

From Chapter 12
Nearly everyone in our leadership cringed at the actual utterance of the word heresy. At its every mention, they regarded me with an alarmed expression that nearly yelled, “Don’t say that!” and avoided the use of the term as if it were an unclean thing. Even presented with the Word of Faith doctrine that states the physical death of Christ on the Cross did not accomplish salvation, their heads would shake, mouths tighten, and hands would go up to bring a halt to further discussion.

It’s as if it is considered unloving to bring serious departure from the Christian faith out into the light, and openly name the person involved. Interestingly, Paul had no such compunction (II Timothy 2:17-18), nor did the apostle John (3 John 9-10). Jesus called out the Pharisees to their face, in front of multitudes. We have the pattern set forth in the Word, but we simply refused to follow it, shrinking back behind an unbiblical definition of love.

What exactly is heresy? In II Peter 2:1, the word is used in the plural to indicate those who would bring in doctrines that contradict the Gospel set forth by our Lord and His apostles. In the Greek, the word—hairesis—comes from a word meaning “choice or opinion.” Teachings contrary to the doctrine of Christ are built upon “imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God” (II Corinthians 10:5). They are the result of a minister’s (or anyone’s) personal choice to depart into another realm, “intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind” (Colossians 2:18). Heresies are mere opinions given a godly veneer, persuasive argument based upon assumptions, ideas, dreams and visions not grounded in the revealed Word of God.

Heresy is not a light thing. In this relativistic, tolerant age, it is wrongly considered good manners to look the other way when someone expresses disagreement with objective truth. We have begun to find common ground, as some would put it, and link arms with Mormons and Muslims, believing the theological divide is not as wide as we had thought. Instead of bravely upholding the standard of scriptural inerrancy, we succumb to a redefinition of the very Gospel of our salvation which was once for all delivered unto the saints (Jude 3).

We have conveniently forgotten the martyrs who stood faithful to our Lord under penalty of death, who clung to the pure Word of God as the flames licked the soles of their bare feet, and the smoke of their own burning flesh seared their nostrils. We, who have never shed a drop of our own blood in defense of the Gospel, turn our backs upon those who have.

In the first of [our church's] eldership meetings, when I brought out the courageous faith of the early reformers, one leader rebuked me and told me not to bring that up. I was stunned. Why not talk about our forefathers in the faith? If not for some of the early reformers, most of us would be Catholic. I remember well the feeling of being lost in a system of rules and superstition, and leaving the interpretation of Scripture to a clergy that sacrifices Christ again with every Mass. No, we must never forget or disparage the martyrs who “overcame him [the devil] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death” (Revelation 12:11).
And yet, a new kind of Christian has taken the place of those earlier defenders of the faith. They have traded biblical Christianity for an experiential, mystical spirituality. Brothers and sisters, this shouldn’t be! While there have always been Christian leaders and teachers who pervert the doctrine of Christ, we live in a time where there seems to be an increase of false doctrine permeating the halls of Christendom. We must not shy away from facing these heresies head-on.

False doctrines and the practices that come with them do not set free—rather they enslave their adherents and hinder them from truly knowing God. This bondage was one of the main issues facing my wife and me upon examining the un-biblical doctrines we had been taught. As long as we believed the false, we were hemmed in on every side, backed into a corner by superstition and unbelief. Both of us having left one system of that ilk (Roman Catholicism), we had jumped feet first into another, and avoided the liberating message set forth in the Gospel. As with every religious system outside of the Gospel, do this, don’t do that, don’t touch, grab for this—a manmade set of rules had rendered the Word of God of no effect.

Quite frankly, I grew very tired of the whole affair. . . . Every time we turned around, a new revelation steered us in another direction. My spiritual legs became heavy from running after every “wind of doctrine” that blew through our ranks. There was never a place of satisfaction, that Sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrews 4. While the anointing we pursued promised to be refreshing, all it did was hone, razor-sharp, the craving for another spiritual high. We at New Covenant were caught up on an unceasing merry-go-round.

But we are not so different from Old Testament Israel. They, too, ran after new and exciting ways of worship. They, too, thrilled at false signs and wonders, hung on the words of their multiplied false prophets, and substituted idols for the true God. But seeking the satisfaction they craved, they ran right past the only One who could offer it. The result was a maddening mix of gods that spiritually bled them dry.

Our Lord’s remedy for them holds as true for us today. “Return, thou backsliding Israel and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you, for I am merciful” (Jeremiah. 3:12). We need to repent and return to Christ, who gives life and genuine refreshment:

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (John 6:35)

Also from The Other Side of the River:
Chapter 1
“Touch Not Mine Anointed”
Latter Rain: The Spawning of Apostasy
“I Just Had a Vision!”

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?cat=197
Nice and this is so true. we even see this in here. we are mocked because we stand for truth. told we should be "loving" and accept all "christians" as they are. even if they do not teach truth.

this I do believe is the falling away spoken of in scripture!
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#6
I for one am not going to get into a fruitless argument with someone who wont listen or be open to honest open minded debate. Proverbs states don't argue with a fool, just makes you like him. To open any line of communication starts with relational attributes. No good throwing the baby out with the bath water. Believe me, that guy in the book, been same place, ridiculed and scorned for the same reasons. Do I hate them, no! Why? Because I'm as good as a murderer if I do. Love and bless your enemies, Jesus did, good enough for me. It's never the point of correcting it's the state of heart we do it before during and after that ultimately we ourselves are judged on.

And most important of all that anything and everything be done bearing the fruit of the spirit. There's alot more to correcting and exposing false doctrines than jumping up and down on a nail cause they wont listen. You can't make people change, God is good at doing that. Praying for them is and taking this from scripture, is effectual. If people are willing to follow blindly believing any and everything instead of going to the source of all life then even what you say to them will stay a season til they hear the next great supposed thing happening.

Jesus says well many who call Him Lord get told "I know you not" but why Lord didn't we fight your cause to the "bitter" end, sure but did you love them or just what you were arguing about cause you walked away and held them in contempt and scorn. There's alot of ways that scripture speaks. When I asked you for water, bed clothes compassion forgiveness, but when Lord did you. Figure it out yourself, pray about it then try to understand Gods love in doing any and everything. I say this to everyone not any particular person, it's what I remind myself with.

Blessings
 
Last edited:
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#7
Mike Bickle “Want” Contemplative Mysticism Book to be “the manual for IHOP–KC.”

July 28th, 2011 | Author: A Ministry in His Service


by John Lanagan
My Word Like Fire Ministries

Much of the literature being sold through the International House of Prayer’s online FORERUNNER
Bookstore indicates a contemplative influence. One such book being offered is Fire Within, written by
Father Thomas Dubay.IHOP founder Mike Bickle states, “I want this book to be the manual for
IHOP-KC.” [1]

That is high praise indeed from Mike Bickle. The full title of the book is Fire Within: St. Teresa of Avila,
St. John of the Cross, and the Gospel–On Prayer
. Incredibly, Bickle’s “manual” is about
Catholic, contemplative mystics!
Also for sale on the website are books by and about St. John of
the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and even Madame Guyon.



This is a system of monastic contemplative mystics. This "order" is quite diminished
today. They are known as the "Carmelites" a reference that takes them back to Mount
Carmel and the Prophet Elijah. The Monasticism and Mysticism aspects generally deny
'The
holy and APOSTOLIC catholic church'.

* Partly this is a judgment on the Catholic Laity, and a coming out from amongst them.

*
Partly this is a judgment on the Catholic Clergy-general in its practices and approaches
to the laity-general (Niko Laos again).

*
Partly it is a judgment on society and the apparent or seeming need to withdraw from
it's corruption and worldliness.

Sadly such a backlash does nothing apostolic at all, but rather retreats into it's cave. Like
any organization of man, in time it is open to infiltration and corruption, in this case, much
of it is due to the nature of the organization itself -- Monasticism and Mysticism.
Most
Catholic "orders" have a lay component or branch, such as the Franciscans (founded by
Francis of Assisi), the Benedictines (as in Pope 'Benedict') and the Dominicans.

That Elijah precedes Messiah is simply a concept of these judgments of the society and
church laity as stated above, however, it requires a societal call to repentance, as John
the Baptist did, or as Elijah did in coming up against BAAL. As noted in other threads, it is
also important to note, that it takes more than one person, Elijah was followed by Elisha,
and their work influence Jehu, who partly took down the Baal and Jezebel system in his
time.


Because it is a Catholic system, it is also open to influence by other catholic sects, such as
the Jesuits, Knights of Columbus, Opus Dei, SSPX, Marion societies etc., but also by it's
nature, it is an attempt to put such sects aside. The laity, devolving into Unions (ELOI)
and Sports (BAAL) has come under judgment, yet there is no outcry, no calling out, no
'apostolic' ministry
. This all falls under the concepts of Nicholas, Niko-Laos, The
Nicolaitans.
The Papacy has made a general call for the laity to return to these 'third
orders'.
They tried to take over the world systems, failed or got caught, then retreat to
the cave, rather than repent and call for repentance.


See also: Link -->> Third order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#8
I for one am not going to get into a fruitless argument with someone who wont listen or be open to honest open minded debate. Proverbs states don't argue with a fool, just makes you like him. To open any line of communication starts with relational attributes. No good throwing the baby out with the bath water. Believe me, that guy in the book, been same place, ridiculed and scorned for the same reasons. Do I hate them, no! Why? Because I'm as good as a murderer if I do. Love and bless your enemies, Jesus did, good enough for me. It's never the point of correcting it's the state of heart we do it before during and after that ultimately we ourselves are judged on.

And most important of all that anything and everything be done bearing the fruit of the spirit. There's alot more to correcting and exposing false doctrines than jumping up and down on a nail cause they wont listen. You can't make people change, God is good at doing that. Praying for them is and taking this from scripture, is effectual. If people are willing to follow blindly believing any and everything instead of going to the source of all life then even what you say to them will stay a season til they hear the next great supposed thing happening.

Jesus says well many who call Him Lord get told "I know you not" but why Lord didn't we fight your cause to the "bitter" end, sure but did you love them or just what you were arguing about cause you walked away and held them in contempt and scorn. There's alot of ways that scripture speaks. When I asked you for water, bed clothes compassion forgiveness, but when Lord did you. Figure it out yourself, pray about it then try to understand Gods love in doing any and everything. I say this to everyone not any particular person, it's what I remind myself with.

Blessings
that's nice. and good.
keep on doing what you do best alex.

~

i'll walk in the works my Father ordained beforehand that i would in.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

if anyone thinks "good works" always means loving someone right into hell becase we are afraid to be watchmen and stay sober and vigilent, i think differently.

i do may share of carrying the simple Gospel of Christ Cruified to the lost, and working behind the scenes with sincere christians.

but the work of assisting any who care (i wonder how many do) to be aware of satan's devices is also a good work, for it is care for His sheep.

and that's all i have to say about that.




later, i'll post the last nails in the coffin of the spirit of iniquity and antichrist that has invaded our churches: it's sitting here waiting for when i decide to do it. and all the sourcing and documentation y'all need to find out for yourselves will be provided.

one last thing:
if we think we can play with strange fire and not be hurt, we're wrong.
dead wrong. God Himself will not allow it (see 2 Thessanlonians 2).

we're in satan's little season; might be a good time to reconsider drinking from that cup of abominations called the new spirituality...you know...where you do things, depart from the faith in order to HEAR THE VOICE OF GOD outside His Holy Scriptures?

later....

2 Thessalonians 2
The Man of Lawlessness
1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,a 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Stand Firm
13But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruitsd to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 17comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
 
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C

Consumed

Guest
#9
Every member of the body has it's part to play, all keeps it in balance. You obviously have that passion for that which you are called strongly to do, as am I. Like you said, it's what I do best just as is what you do best, keep doing it by all means, just don't take the bait when opposition cones because it will come, that's my underlining point.

I love you Kathy 
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#10
If there is a part that homogenizes what truth separates what does that produce?
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#11
This just seems to be a man saying all forms of prayer except spontaneous free worded prayer is wrong. I mean how can anyone object to the point Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours for Americans)? It doesn't even have any specifically Catholic prayers in it other than on certain feast days.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#12
If there is a part that homogenizes what truth separates what does that produce?
Lol too technical a question for me sorry abiding, just being honest, no disrespect intended.

 
A

Abiding

Guest
#13
Lol too technical a question for me sorry abiding, just being honest, no disrespect intended.

Well that explains things, thanks :)
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#14
Well that explains things, thanks :)
Don't stop do share, just cause I'm not academically or scholarly minded shouldn't stop you from saying what you mean, my shield is up, won't hurt, promise. I'm open and honest mike
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#15
Ok I just looked it up, what am I blending, uniting, mixing if you would like to point out my fault mike?? That the fruit of the spirit be prevalent even when confronting, that peace, humility, being calm, not rude, loving.
Good homogenizing if you ask me. I'll take it.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#16
Ok I just looked it up, what am I blending, uniting, mixing if you would like to point out my fault mike?? That the fruit of the spirit be prevalent even when confronting, that peace, humility, being calm, not rude, loving.
Good homogenizing if you ask me. I'll take it.
That the fruit of the spirit be prevalent even when confronting, that peace, humility, being calm, not rude....
that i wholeheartedly agree with you on. :)
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#17
That the fruit of the spirit be prevalent even when confronting, that peace, humility, being calm, not rude....
that i wholeheartedly agree with you on. :)
Then what is your issue with me then brother, openly say it please, my aim is to make peace not war with you or anyone, agreeing or disagreeing I assure you, Matt 6 burns in my heart for I am called a son of God I declare without shame or regret
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#18
Not sure that I have an issue with you. :)
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#19
Well that explains things, thanks :)
Explains what??? Let me clear something up, if I'm wrong pls correct me. It's very hard to entangle myself in a debate constructively when the debate has turned personal and sour between antagonists, I bail out or try and get emotions out of the warring parties to concentrate on debating constructively. I love when threads start cause it's open hearted til it gets personal, calling people the most awful things, dogs, wolve,s from Satan, etc why bother trying. Yet this gets taken for "homogenizing" is what I think your implying.
I don't need camps or tribes, just Jesus.
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
#20
love when threads start cause it's open hearted til it gets personal, calling people the most awful things, dogs, wolve,s from Satan, etc why bother trying. Yet this gets taken for "homogenizing" is what I think your implying.
Man, you just hit the nail on the head. ( not about the implying part, but all the rest, who cares whats implied.)