Winds of Doctrine.

Ramon · Aug 11, 2011

I have seen many winds of doctrine for the little time I have been in these forums. Winds that blow out and blow in. And some are shaken by these winds. Like reeds in the wind. Like blades of grass in violent winds.

I would have thought that by the name, some are followers of Christ Jesus, but many are just followers of doctrine. And they don't know Jesus. These are those that are thrown around like rag dolls by every wind of doctrine. And new doctrines sprout up like weeds, to confuse and further draw one into perdition. These are ungodly people. Not followers of Jesus Christ, but followers of themselves.

This doctrine and that doctrine, backed by the assumption that they are of God, and that they are of the Spirit of God, but they are always in error. Forsaking love for doctrine and tradition. Growing colder and colder, and more ignorant of the truth.

But I know some of you are not so easily shaken, because you know the true foundation. You stand on that foundation. You are built up in that foundation, and you are not moved. The Lord will not permit you to be moved. There is only one foundation that will stand the storms.

Till now, you have seen winds, but storms will come. And only those who stand on the true foundation will remain. Stop chasing winds of doctrine, and start standing on the foundation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, in love, and in care for one another. Do your duty as unto the Lord, and not as unto men, to receive glory of men.

May Jesus bless you.

AnandaHya · Aug 11, 2011

Hebrews 6

The Peril of Not Progressing

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.

Abiding · Aug 11, 2011

what is the foundation? if its not doctrine, even love has a doctrine.

Consumed · Aug 11, 2011

God is love, I don't think He is a doctrine

Abiding · Aug 11, 2011

Consumed said:

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Abiding · Aug 11, 2011

Consumed said:

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Consumed · Aug 11, 2011

Abiding said:

You miss the point then, there's always more to what Jesus was saying by what He was sent to do and doing it because John 3:16.
Fulfilling prophecy and the redemptive plan of God for man.
The doctrine by the Appstles, laying the foundation thereof, was about separating law from grace, clarifying what Jesus did and how to walk in the light of our salvation.

journey41 · Aug 11, 2011

Ramon said:

I have seen many winds of doctrine for the little time I have been in these forums. Winds that blow out and blow in. And some are shaken by these winds. Like reeds in the wind. Like blades of grass in violent winds.

I would have thought that by the name, some are followers of Christ Jesus, but many are just followers of doctrine. And they don't know Jesus. These are those that are thrown around like rag dolls by every wind of doctrine. And new doctrines sprout up like weeds, to confuse and further draw one into perdition. These are ungodly people. Not followers of Jesus Christ, but followers of themselves.

This doctrine and that doctrine, backed by the assumption that they are of God, and that they are of the Spirit of God, but they are always in error. Forsaking love for doctrine and tradition. Growing colder and colder, and more ignorant of the truth.

But I know some of you are not so easily shaken, because you know the true foundation. You stand on that foundation. You are built up in that foundation, and you are not moved. The Lord will not permit you to be moved. There is only one foundation that will stand the storms.

Till now, you have seen winds, but storms will come. And only those who stand on the true foundation will remain. Stop chasing winds of doctrine, and start standing on the foundation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, in love, and in care for one another. Do your duty as unto the Lord, and not as unto men, to receive glory of men.

May Jesus bless you.

[/QUOTE]May Jesus bless you too Ramon. I have a question for you. What is the false doctrine you are warning people about? Can you be more specific so that I dont get decieved?

Ramon · Aug 12, 2011

journey41 said:

I am 100% sure, that the only way to not be deceived is to stick closely to Jesus. Seek to please him, even if it is hard. You will go through many challenges trying to obey him. I go through many myself. But when I pray the Lord to keep me from deception and evil, and for him to do his will in my life, and for him to help me to keep from sin, he does hear me, and he has kept me. I am sure that because many have neglected to truly follow Jesus, some have even already been given over to delusion.

Read the words of Jesus. In Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and take them as the very words of God, by which he will judge everyone. Pray that the Lord help you to understand them, and to do them.

The Lord has spared me MANY different deceptions and he continues to do so, and I am just in awe of how easily I could have been sucked in by it. It is true, that the entire world, even my own soul doesn't know how to be good. That is why I need help to learn his ways. You have nothing to fear about deception if you stick close to Jesus.

May Jesus bless you.

4runner · Aug 12, 2011

Ramon said:

I am 100% sure, that the only way to not be deceived is to stick closely to Jesus. Seek to please him, even if it is hard. You will go through many challenges trying to obey him. I go through many myself. But when I pray the Lord to keep me from deception and evil, and for him to do his will in my life, and for him to help me to keep from sin, he does hear me, and he has kept me. I am sure that because many have neglected to truly follow Jesus, some have even already been given over to delusion.

Read the words of Jesus. In Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and take them as the very words of God, by which he will judge everyone. Pray that the Lord help you to understand them, and to do them.

The Lord has spared me MANY different deceptions and he continues to do so, and I am just in awe of how easily I could have been sucked in by it. It is true, that the entire world, even my own soul doesn't know how to be good. That is why I need help to learn his ways. You have nothing to fear about deception if you stick close to Jesus.

May Jesus bless you.

Good word bro

pickles · Aug 12, 2011

Ramon said:

I have seen many winds of doctrine for the little time I have been in these forums. Winds that blow out and blow in. And some are shaken by these winds. Like reeds in the wind. Like blades of grass in violent winds.

I would have thought that by the name, some are followers of Christ Jesus, but many are just followers of doctrine. And they don't know Jesus. These are those that are thrown around like rag dolls by every wind of doctrine. And new doctrines sprout up like weeds, to confuse and further draw one into perdition. These are ungodly people. Not followers of Jesus Christ, but followers of themselves.

This doctrine and that doctrine, backed by the assumption that they are of God, and that they are of the Spirit of God, but they are always in error. Forsaking love for doctrine and tradition. Growing colder and colder, and more ignorant of the truth.

But I know some of you are not so easily shaken, because you know the true foundation. You stand on that foundation. You are built up in that foundation, and you are not moved. The Lord will not permit you to be moved. There is only one foundation that will stand the storms.

Till now, you have seen winds, but storms will come. And only those who stand on the true foundation will remain. Stop chasing winds of doctrine, and start standing on the foundation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, in love, and in care for one another. Do your duty as unto the Lord, and not as unto men, to receive glory of men.

May Jesus bless you.

Thankyou Ramon for this post.
I remember reading in scriptures , but cannot recall the scripture.
Where Jesus said doctrine would divide His church.
I sometimes wish my memory was better.

Jesus is trully that which we must live in.

God bless.
pickles

Cobus · Aug 12, 2011

Journe41... Ok, let me tell it straight out... Let them crucify me.... Let the false doctrine people crucify me for believing Jesus teaches, promises and delivers perfection here on earth....

Jesus said these words... Matthew 5:48... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I look at this and I tried to not make this true, but I end up the FOOL every time. Why would Jesus want us perfect here on earth? Why not just believers.... Becasue to believe in a HOLY STATE is to be perfect. Let me explain it with a verse... Jude 1:But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, The challenge... Show me imperfection in this... MOST HOLY FAITH!!! PRAYEING IN THE HOLY GHOST!!! ...Show me imperfection in this picture...People that have a most holy faith.... Faith leads to perfection HERE ON EARTH!!! The Word says from faith to faith... If I do not believe in perfection here on earth what chance do I have on MOST HOLY FAITH?

Look here... The first words of God to man AFTER man was removed from Eden... Gad says this to Cain... And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Some people do not get it in the old English, fortunately I have my lanuage that is more expressive... The Lord says this to Cain.... Why are you so upset? Why is your head hanging, and smoke coming from your ears and you are furious AT ME? You know if you do well I will accept you... And you know if you do not well sin, of which there are way more will even claim more of you. But Cain.... YOU MUST RULE OVER SIN, NOT LET SIN RULE YOU!!!

So what is the winds of false doctrine....
Hey man I tried to rule over sin, but I cannot succeed, so NOBODY can, so I will stat preaching...

Do not try to beat sin, just sto doing it... What sin is there that you CANNOT repent from? Just name ONE!!

Jesus died for your sins, you are OK...

Just becasue Jesus died for your sins, does not mean you may continue in them... Jesus says...Shall we now continue in sin...GOD FORBID!!!

God does not want you to be perfect...Jesus did not mean that we should be perfect here... Matthew 5:48...

God wants us to be perfect, because GOD SEND HIS SON TO MAKE US PERFECT!!!(This one is a good study!)The Bible explains the process PERFECTLY.
Some even preach so against Matthew 5 that they almost say Jesus did not mean what He said there, and they try to replace the word perfect with MATURE... Mature in WHAT? Even mature in Christ HAS TO BE A PERFECT STATE!!!

Or Jesus did not mean that... You will only be perfect in the AFTER life... God looks at you through the blood of Jesus, and then you look clean... We do not live under the LAW but under God's grace... All these things is FALSE!!!

Let me SHOW you how...
First..Jesus is fair and He will not command something that HE KNOWS WE CANNOT REACH...
Jesus said BE PERFECT...ALREADY PROOF THAT HE KNOWS WE CAN GET TO THAT STATE.

You will only be perfect in the after life,

Nope...Look here... Saints needs to be perfected... Eph 4:11 to 13... A Saint is already a person without sin...So even if we stopped sinning we are not perfect YET!!! but that is when God makes us perfect... And SAINTS ARE IN THIS WORLD!!!! AND THEY ARE PERFECTED BY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD>>>Eph 4:11 to 13... Read it..

God looks at you through the BLOOD OF JESUS then you look clean...FALSE!!!

Jesus says NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME! If God still find you on the other side of the blood of Jesus, then you did not GO THROUGH JESUS YET!!!
You are on the wrong side of the CROSS!!! GO THROUGH, PLEASE GO THROUGH!!! God awaits you ON THE OTHER SIDE OF JESUS!!

ALL WHO WENT THROUGH JESUS ARE CLEAN AS WHITE WOOL ... THERE IS NO SIN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CROSS!!!

Jesus teaches (commands) perfection here on earth... Matthew 5:48... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus promise perfection here on earth.... MAtthew 5:6.. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Jesus delivers perfection here on earth... Eph 4:11 to 13... And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I had a BIG issue with this, but then I started to look up what these verses actually say... And look at this... A saint here is in the Greek.. A most holy one, spiritually pure, and moraaly blameless.... this looks pretty much like a sinless peron to me... So even this sinless person is not perfect... And these other people need to be perfect themselves... How can a person not perfect, do the job of perfecting a sinless person if he is not perfect himself? Nope they had to be perfect, and they STILL ARE... And how will we ever be saints if we do not even believe we can be saints? So stop being tossed about... Look at the next two verses of Eph 4....That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;.... Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Want the truth in Christ..... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I pray this now.... "Lord Jesus Christ LET THOU WILL BE DONE IN ME AS IN HEAVEN....AMEN!!!

Red33 · Aug 12, 2011

Cobus said:

We can not turn from any sin or any form of sin in our mind, in our heart, on our tongue or done in our body without the goodness and grace of God providing us with the strength we need to do so. That grace is available because of and through the cross, where ALL sin was paid for, judged through death and buried. The grace of the cross allows us to look at our sin in this manner so that we do not have to identify with our sin or even look upon it. We don't deny that we have sinned and we confess our sin but we hold onto the truth that He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse our sin.

To be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect is to look and respond to sin as He does. This is where many believers are confused about the blood of Christ, justification and the eternal redemption that was obtained for us by Jesus Christ (Heb 9:12). God's response to our sin is through the justice that was satisfied through the blood of His Son, who is our advocate and pleads our case when we sin (1Jn 2:1). God is also of purer eyes (the purity of His perfect understanding), than to look upon iniquity (Hab 1:13). God is just and perfect in His understanding about what His Son accomplished on the cross for sin, for man and for God, as man and as God. Think about that.

To be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect is to have the same operational understanding that God does about what His Son did to sin to satisfy all the demands of His holiness, His righteousness and His justice and on man's side what Christ did to make reconciliation available to sinful man, who was separated from God through sin. There are two aspects to the cross that was accomplished by Jesus Christ as our mediator (1Tim 2:5). One is the vertical aspect which satisfied the Father's justice concerning the offense and wages of sin, the other is the horizontal aspect that provided reconciliation to sinful man by not imputing sin to man, so that man could be reconciled to God and be free from the bondage of sin (2Cor 5:18-20).

Being perfect is not just understanding these two aspects of the cross, but by also having them operating in our mind and in our heart by faith and through the wisdom of God's grace. So, when we sin or see another sin, which violates the holiness of God, we look to Christ and what He did to that sin and we function operationally by faith in the grace of God to be restored or to restore our brother. We do not condemn or demand repentance but we extend the goodness of God through the finished work of Christ and allow the believer to respond to God. This is when we must also be perfect having patience and in some cases longsuffering just like our Father in heaven. This is being perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect, because when we sin the Father looks to the Son who is our mediator AND our advocate.

Consumed · Aug 12, 2011

Rev states "to those who overcome" so one would think that sin cannot have dominion over us, it's still a choice. We can't condone it,God forbid,but we have been empowered by grace to overcome things that hinder and bind us. If someone has anger, pray God sets you free can't just say grace covers me and continue being a angry impatient person (eg).
Yes God is patient but we have to bare our cross and deny ourselves. Whether we reach "perfection" here or not isn't the issue, confronting ourselves and not doing anything contrary is. To do so is making a mockery of the cross.
Dangerous for people struggling to think it's ok I can continue I'll be fine I'm saved, the conciois ends up being seared. Crucifying the flesh is to resist the devil and He will flee, we have the power of the Holy Sporit with in us to overcome, greater is He in us than he who is in the world.
Apostles gave us the outline to live Godly lives, Jesus gave us the means to overcome, God has promised us life eternal with Him. Indeed many are called but few are chosen cause they don't want to make a stand.
Heb 6:1-4

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Winds of Doctrine.

Ramon

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AnandaHya

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Abiding

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Consumed

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Abiding

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Abiding

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journey41

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Ramon

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4runner

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pickles

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Cobus

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Red33

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