Is Jesus Christ a God ?

[mikeboll64]

Originally Posted by Naphal

Dagan was the head of the pantheon comprising some 200 deities.

Hi Naphal,

The fact that Dagon was the head of other gods doesn't change the fact that he is a SINGULAR god who was called by the plural word "elohim".

Originally Posted by Naphal

Ashtoreth is called the "Face of Ba‘al" which ties her directly to that false god.

But she is still a SINGULAR goddess who was called by the plural title "elohim".

Originally Posted by Naphal

Molech I have no certain info about but it seems false gods were associated all as one to God since all are false and likely inspired to the greatest false god-wannabe, satan.

Molech (Moloch, Milcom) is also a SINGULAR god who was called by the plural word "elohim".

Pharaoh was also called by the plural word "adonim" (lords), even though he was not a person within a "Pharaoh-head".

Originally Posted by Naphal

In Genesis 1, one of the persons of the Godhead speaks to the other saying "we" and "our".

How do you know this? The common sense understanding of "Let US do this or that" is that ONE being is talking to a completely separate being. If I overheard you saying "WE are off to the market", the last thing that would come to my mind is that you were two persons within a "human-head". To the contrary, I would naturally think that you were talking to someone OTHER THAN you. I'm quite sure you would assume the same thing in the same circumstances. So why would one throw out the common sense understanding that God was speaking to someone OTHER THAN Himself in Gen 1:26?

peace,
mike

[Daena]

Originally Posted by mikeboll64

Hi All,

The answer to the OP question of this thread is "YES, Jesus is a god". He is NOT the God Most High - that title belongs only to his own God and Father, Jehovah. (Gen 14:22) So Jesus is not that One, but the Son OF that One. (Mark 5:7) He is, however, a god in the terminology of Biblical times - where the word was used of human judges and prophets, angels, Jesus, Satan, and Jehovah, among others.

I read through much of this thread and noticed a lot of Trinitarian misunderstandings. I saw the "plural Elohim" argument. I saw the "no God apart from me" argument. And of course I saw the John 1:1 argument, where the majority of English translators apparently see no paradox in the claim that our ONE God was WITH our ONE God in the beginning. I also saw where certain Trinitarians listed a whole slew of scriptures in one post in an effort to overwhelm us with the raw quantity of "Jesus is God Almighty" proof texts.

The problem is that not one of those scriptures even implies, let alone clearly states, that Jesus is the God he is the Son of.

1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I am a part of the "US" that Paul mentioned here..........so for me, there is but ONE God; and that ONE God is the Father.

peace and love,
mike

Hi Mikeboll64 I know you.

[Naphal]

Originally Posted by mikeboll64

Hi Naphal,

The fact that Dagon was the head of other gods doesn't change the fact that he is a SINGULAR god who was called by the plural word "elohim".

But if God wishes to group a singular god with other gods and use a plural term then who are we to disagree?

But she is still a SINGULAR goddess who was called by the plural title "elohim".

see above

Molech (Moloch, Milcom) is also a SINGULAR god who was called by the plural word "elohim".

see above

Pharaoh was also called by the plural word "adonim" (lords), even though he was not a person within a "Pharaoh-head".

Pharaoh's always had advisers and councils etc. God merely refers to the "institution" of a Pharaoh rather than a personal term.

How do you know this? The common sense understanding of "Let US do this or that" is that ONE being is talking to a completely separate being. If I overheard you saying "WE are off to the market", the last thing that would come to my mind is that you were two persons within a "human-head". To the contrary, I would naturally think that you were talking to someone OTHER THAN you.

BINGO you just figured out the Godhead now. I believe the father spoke to the son and that was what was said.

So why would one throw out the common sense understanding that God was speaking to someone OTHER THAN Himself in Gen 1:26?

Who else but another who is also God could possible help in the creation of man? Are you suggesting angel's have the power of creation???

No, what GOD is.....is very different than what you current think GOD is. Once you get past your own rigid construct, you will understand the Trinity.

[mikeboll64]

Originally Posted by Daena

Hi Mikeboll64 I know you.

Hi Daena! Nice to find a friend here already!

[mikeboll64]

Originally Posted by Naphal

But if God wishes to group a singular god with other gods and use a plural term then who are we to disagee?

Hi Naphal,

Do you disagree with the well known fact that Hebrew plural words could either refer to more than one of the thing mentioned or only one majestic thing mentioned?

Originally Posted by Naphal

I believe the father spoke to the son and that was what was said.

Who else but another who is also God could possible help in the creation of man? Are you suggesting angel's have the power of creation???

I'm actually suggesting exactly what you suggested: That God spoke to His Son in Gen 1:26. I just don't understand how the fact that God spoke to His Son would make anyone think that Son WAS the God that was speaking to him. ???

As far as angels taking part in creation - we know that all things were created BY God THROUGH His Son Jesus. And Jesus is most definitely an angel of his God. (Angel is one of the words we use for the Greek word "aggelos", which merely means "messenger". And I'm sure that you realize Jesus was a messenger/prophet of his own God, Jehovah, right?)

Proverbs 8 refers to Jesus being the master craftsman at God's side during the creation, and John 1:3, Col 1:16, Heb 1:2, and 1 Cor 8:6 all speak of God creating all things THROUGH Jesus - so we can assume Jesus played some part in creation. It's just that we don't know exactly what the words "all things were created THROUGH him" really mean.

But understand that God's angels are called "morning stars" in Job 38:7; and in Rev 22:16, Jesus is called the "Bright Morning Star", clarifying that Jesus is one of God's angels. (Also compare with Gal 4:14 for more proof that Jesus is an angel of his God - who also happens to be our God - John 20:17)

mike

[Naphal]

Originally Posted by mikeboll64

But understand that God's angels are called "morning stars" in Job 38:7; and in Rev 22:16, Jesus is called the "Bright Morning Star", clarifying that Jesus is one of God's angels. (Also compare with Gal 4:14 for more proof that Jesus is an angel of his God - who also happens to be our God - John 20:17)

mike

Jesus is not one of God's angel's. It's heresy of the highest degree. Jesus is God. No wonder you have no idea what God is or is not.

[AnandaHya]

Originally Posted by Naphal

Jesus is not one of God's angel's. It's heresy of the highest degree. Jesus is God. No wonder you have no idea what God is or is not.

he's got more problems then the angel angle. he stated on another thread that Satan and Jesus are both just gods under Jehovah.

:

anyways....

[Laodicea]

Originally Posted by mikeboll64

But understand that God's angels are called "morning stars" in Job 38:7; and in Rev 22:16, Jesus is called the "Bright Morning Star", clarifying that Jesus is one of God's angels. (Also compare with Gal 4:14 for more proof that Jesus is an angel of his God - who also happens to be our God - John 20:17)

How can you call Jesus an angel? Have you read these scriptures?
Isaiah 9:6
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
John 8:58
(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Do you understand what Jesus is saying when he calls himself "I am"? Just in case you don't here is a text.
Exodus 3:14
(14) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

The Jews who heard Jesus speak knew what He meant that is why we have the next verse recorded
John 8:59
(59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Also only someone who is eternal could die for our sins eternally. Only God is eternal.

[AnandaHya]

I wouldn't trust a supposedly Christian forum that is linked to another magick forum and whose admin blatantly breaks the rules of this one to siphon off members to hers.

Personally I recommend avoiding both but then its always your choice.

2 Peter 2:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.


2 John 1:10-12
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.


we are not called to fellowship with people who say Jesus is on the same level as Satan, just another god of this world.

there are many on this site that do not hold to the Trinity doctine. they have not been banned because of that doctrinal point.

there are other lies on the post I could address but I have to go to work.

I like discussion and truthfulness but a line must be drawn at some point of what should be allowed to be discussed and what shouldn't.

[Daena]

You know AnandaHya, your all the same.

[AnandaHya]

Originally Posted by Daena

You know AnandaHya, your all the same.

is that suppose to be an insult?
Philippians 2:1-3

King James Version (KJV)

Philippians 2

1If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.


You have no clue about the various and diverse people on this forum and chat site because you would rather play the victim and lump everyone else as your enemy.

at least you removed the link to the other site.

[AnandaHya]

Originally Posted by Daena

Excuse me, but, what ARE you talking about? The Forum I have has nothign to do with the site you mention. It's a forum setup which links to other Forums to guests, nothing to do with me.

if you are an admin on that other forum then why did you allow it to be linked to your site?

and have you read the rules of this forum? I'll highlight the main ones

Here are our chat room and forum rules. Most of these "rules" are simply common sense and proper Christian conduct, but for reference here they are.

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We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.


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Also, please understand that many users have joined our chat rooms to try to solicit donations for their own charity (or some other Christian charity). There are so many charities people claim (e.g., orphanages in India, food for Africa, etc.) and we have no way to verify these things. And besides, people don't join our chat rooms to be solicited, so please refrain.

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Note: We occasionally update or add to these rules.

[Daena]

Originally Posted by Daena
You know AnandaHya, your all the same.

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

is that suppose to be an insult?

Anandahya,

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

I wouldn't trust a supposedly Christian forum that is linked to another magick forum and whose admin blatantly breaks the rules of this one to siphon off members to hers.

Is THAT supposed to be an insult?

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

You have no clue about the various and diverse people on this forum and chat site because you would rather play the victim and lump everyone else as your enemy.

I do a favour for someone I know, you say something not true (as above), I say something back, and you go and do it again. Bye, have fun.

[Daena]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

if you are an admin on that other forum then why did you allow it to be linked to your site?

It is a part of the package and I can't find a way to stop the links from showing up (to Guests). It's not my fault.

and have you read the rules of this forum? I'll highlight the main ones

6. No unauthorized advertising or soliciting or recruiting.

Please come to our chat rooms and forums for fellowship, not to try to advertise anything (not even in private messages to our chat room visitors) or recruit people for anything. By "anything" we mean anything -- web sites, chat rooms, churches, groups, doctrine, etc.
Also, understand that we've had too many cases of new and existing chat sites -- even Christian sites -- trying to piggyback on our site. If you are trying to build up your own chat site, leeching off of another chat site (by trying to recruit its users) is not the way to do it.
Also, please understand that many users have joined our chat rooms to try to solicit donations for their own charity (or some other Christian charity). There are so many charities people claim (e.g., orphanages in India, food for Africa, etc.) and we have no way to verify these things. And besides, people don't join our chat rooms to be solicited, so please refrain.

Also please don't be making posts in the forums about someone else's ban. It doesn't help!
And please understand that we don't have the time or energy to talk to a hundred different people (or even a dozen different people) about somebody else's ban. Leave it between that person and the moderator, please!.

No Anandahya, I had NOT read that. So I apologise then for the way I spoke to you. As I said I was only doing something I was asked to.

[AnandaHya]

Originally Posted by Daena

It is a part of the package and I can't find a way to stop the links from showing up (to Guests). It's not my fault.

No Anandahya, I had NOT read that. So I apologise then for the way I spoke to you. As I said I was only doing something I was asked to.

its ok with me, its the mods you need to apologize to.

I'm not mad at you. i just wanted to inform you of the facts and the rules.

you should talk to PneumaPscheSoma, he does not believe in the Trinity doctrine either and he knows Greek and Hebrew and other languages and can exergete the text and explain why the use of the word persons is misleading.

there are others on the site who might discourse with you about it, but personally placing Jesus on the same level as Satan crosses the line for me.

[Daena]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

its ok with me, its the mods you need to apologize to.

I'm not mad at you. i just wanted to inform you of the facts and the rules.

Anandahya no problem.

I apologise Mods. I didn't know. I was only quoting someone.

but personally placing Jesus on the same level as Satan crosses the line for me.

I don't know what that is about, it's not my view.

Peace and love.

[zackabba]

Now, explain this to me:

Jesus is called the Creator in Hebrews 1:10...

how is He not designated as divine here?