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Thread: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

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    Default PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine


    This is what we need Real PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    The Bible reveals that God consists of ONE God in THREE “Persons”
    … especially in the NT, which is God’s prophesied New Covenant.

    verses
    4 -- prophecy: God will be born on the earth
    6 -- Jesus claimed to be the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14-15
    8 -- Jesus hinted that He was the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14-15
    7 -- Jesus was the exact image, form, fullness, etc. of Father God
    8 -- Jesus claimed equality with Father God
    10 - others said Jesus was God (or equal with Father God)
    2 -- Jesus claimed to be the Son of God
    6 -- others (including demons) said Jesus was the Son of God
    8 -- Jesus was the Creator of all things
    2 -- Jesus is the Sustainer (now) of all things
    6 -- Jesus claimed to be the Giver of eternal life
    3 -- others said Jesus is the Giver of eternal life
    11 - names(titles) shared by God in the OT and Jesus in the NT
    30 - Jesus had total power and authority over everything and everybody
    7 –- reveal: God = Lord of lords = Lamb of God = the Word = Jesus
    10 - the Holy Spirit lives inside born-again believers
    30 - the Holy Spirit has the attributes of a person
    13 - all 3 “Persons” of the Trinity are mentioned

    Pick any one of these topics (except the two 30’s), and I’ll show you the verses (they’re ready).

    Okay, we’ll be in the flesh here with no spiritual revelation involved.
    We’ll deal only with intelligence, logic, reasoning, and common sense …

    Above is the LARGE body of evidence (over 100 verses) for the Trinity in the Bible.
    This is the starting point … the foundation.
    If the Bible is viewed through this lens, it will be easier to understand.
    If it is not viewed through this lens, some verses will appear to conflict.

    And, as is true in all of life,
    all information about something is rarely repeated every time it is mentioned.

    An example of using some common sense:
    -- The Bible says Jesus Christ was a human being born on this earth.
    -- And the Bible also says Jesus was God manifested in human form.
    -- The human part of His nature struggled in His body of flesh (as we do).
    -- He obviously was in an inferior position to Father God who was in Heaven.
    -- And He really didn’t want to suffer the agonies of crucifixion, etc.
    So, in the 5 short sentences above we have cleared up a lot of confusion about Jesus.

    We have provided above a large body of evidence for the Trinity in the Bible.
    Therefore, it is up to you who say there is “No Trinity” to prove your case.
    Proof does not include your emotions, opinions, etc. nor those of anyone else.

    How about a tiny scrap of an old manuscript or Bible that is actually missing
    (for example) some Trinity information found in today’s Bibles?

    Someone from hundreds of years ago claiming “Bible alteration” would be worth investigating.

    How about something (anything) concrete … some hard facts?
    .
    .
    God's precious Scriptures are of no value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them!
    ..."For as
    many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Romans 8:14)
    .

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    How about PROOF that God is three "persons" from ANY scripture? Inferred personal attributes and other smoke and mirrors are not "proof" of anything but doctrinal formulation.

    • Isaiah 42:1 is Messianic prophecy that God's SOUL is well pleased in the Son.
    • Matthew 12:18 is a direct NT quote of that Messianic prophecy.
    • Matthew 3:17 (and Mark and Luke parallels) records the voice from heaven speaking of being well pleased in the Son.
    • 2Peter 1:17 is Apostolic confirmation that the Father was speaking at the baptism.

    God's Soul/the Father is well pleased in the Son. The Father is God's Soul.

    Several scriptures speak of God's Spirit. The Word was made flesh, which is the Son.

    God is Spirit-Soul-Body of One Divinity.

    (Divinity is Godhead, which is Theotes. It is the singular personality of God.)

    God is not "person(s)" of ANY quantity; and there isn't scripture to say otherwise beyond inference.

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by AtonedFor View Post
    This is what we need Real PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    The Bible reveals that God consists of ONE God in THREE “Persons”
    … especially in the NT, which is God’s prophesied New Covenant.

    verses
    4 -- prophecy: God will be born on the earth
    6 -- Jesus claimed to be the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14-15
    8 -- Jesus hinted that He was the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14-15
    7 -- Jesus was the exact image, form, fullness, etc. of Father God
    8 -- Jesus claimed equality with Father God
    10 - others said Jesus was God (or equal with Father God)
    2 -- Jesus claimed to be the Son of God
    6 -- others (including demons) said Jesus was the Son of God
    8 -- Jesus was the Creator of all things
    2 -- Jesus is the Sustainer (now) of all things
    6 -- Jesus claimed to be the Giver of eternal life
    3 -- others said Jesus is the Giver of eternal life
    11 - names(titles) shared by God in the OT and Jesus in the NT
    30 - Jesus had total power and authority over everything and everybody
    7 –- reveal: God = Lord of lords = Lamb of God = the Word = Jesus
    10 - the Holy Spirit lives inside born-again believers
    30 - the Holy Spirit has the attributes of a person
    13 - all 3 “Persons” of the Trinity are mentioned

    Pick any one of these topics (except the two 30’s), and I’ll show you the verses (they’re ready).

    Okay, we’ll be in the flesh here with no spiritual revelation involved.
    We’ll deal only with intelligence, logic, reasoning, and common sense …

    Above is the LARGE body of evidence (over 100 verses) for the Trinity in the Bible.
    This is the starting point … the foundation.
    If the Bible is viewed through this lens, it will be easier to understand.
    If it is not viewed through this lens, some verses will appear to conflict.

    And, as is true in all of life,
    all information about something is rarely repeated every time it is mentioned.

    An example of using some common sense:
    -- The Bible says Jesus Christ was a human being born on this earth.
    -- And the Bible also says Jesus was God manifested in human form.
    -- The human part of His nature struggled in His body of flesh (as we do).
    -- He obviously was in an inferior position to Father God who was in Heaven.
    -- And He really didn’t want to suffer the agonies of crucifixion, etc.
    So, in the 5 short sentences above we have cleared up a lot of confusion about Jesus.

    We have provided above a large body of evidence for the Trinity in the Bible.
    Therefore, it is up to you who say there is “No Trinity” to prove your case.
    Proof does not include your emotions, opinions, etc. nor those of anyone else.

    How about a tiny scrap of an old manuscript or Bible that is actually missing
    (for example) some Trinity information found in today’s Bibles?

    Someone from hundreds of years ago claiming “Bible alteration” would be worth investigating.

    How about something (anything) concrete … some hard facts?
    .
    BTW... At a glance, I see virtually nothing I disagree with, or that affirms a Trinity of three "persons". I challenge the last "Holy Spirit has attributes of a person", which is merely inference.

    Without that specially-manufactured creedal term from doctrinal formulation, Trinity is unexpressable to define God, and becomes Tritheism or Triadism. You can't get around the fact that scriprure doesn't refer to God as three "persons", and all allusion to it is inference. Anything that excludes "persons" is NOT Trinitarian. Trinity is a construct with several influences, including Hellenism.

    Maybe you could share your extensive historical knowledge of the Ante-Nicene period and Godhead doctrinal formulation. Your borrowed information is just impugning evidence that you are indoctrinated and can't support what you declare as truth.

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Psalm 69:20 HCSB "Insults have broken my heart, and I am in despair. I waited for sympathy, but there was none; for comforters, but found no one."

    Mark 14:35-36 HCSB "Then He went a little farther, fell to the ground, and began to pray that if it were possible, the hour might pass from Him. And He said "Abba, Father! All things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me. Nevertheless, not what I will, but You will."

    John 14:8-21 is pretty plain

    Acts 1:4 HCSB "While He was together with them, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for the Father's promise. "This" He said "is what you heard from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

    Revelation 3:5 "In the same way, the victor will be dressed in white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and before His angels."

    I suggest you read up on Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Ghost) as much as possible before you make such a claim or stand. Do i know all the truth? most assurdly not, but i do fear God. Search your heart my friend in the midst of a crying sea, many voices, many paddles. But Christ alone is our preserver, our lifeboat, our Friend who prays in heaven on our behalf. The Holy Spirit is a promise from God, the Father to all those who believe in His Son Christ Jesus.
    Last edited by Fencepost; September 2nd, 2011 at 12:05 AM.

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    1. 1 Peter 3:22 (Whole Chapter)
      Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
    2. Hebrews 12:2 (Whole Chapter)
      Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

      Hebrews 10:12 (Whole Chapter)
      But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    3. Hebrews 8:1 (Whole Chapter)
      Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
    4. Hebrews 1:3 (Whole Chapter)
      Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    5. Matthew 26:64 (Whole Chapter)
      Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
    6. lets not forget this one
      Mark 10:40 (Whole Chapter)
      But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

      Here are just a few samples that disprove that 3 as 1 theory of yours
    7. Just as my son is of me so is Jesus of the Father and the Holy spirit being the spirit of the Father Himself is also of the Father.
    8. this seems a fairly straight forward concept to me and I do not believe I'm in err saying this. If it be so then Father open my eyes to see this 3 as 1 theory but it would seem scripture is fairly straight forward on the matter Jesus is our only intercessor between us and the Father.
    Selah

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Can we at least agree that God is love. Though we look through a mirror darkly through Christ Jesus we stand with God being filled with His holy pressence?

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by Muskokaman View Post
    1. 1 Peter 3:22 (Whole Chapter)
      Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
    2. Hebrews 12:2 (Whole Chapter)
      Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

      Hebrews 10:12 (Whole Chapter)
      But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    3. Hebrews 8:1 (Whole Chapter)
      Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
    4. Hebrews 1:3 (Whole Chapter)
      Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    5. Matthew 26:64 (Whole Chapter)
      Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
    6. lets not forget this one
      Mark 10:40 (Whole Chapter)
      But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

      Here are just a few samples that disprove that 3 as 1 theory of yours
    7. Just as my son is of me so is Jesus of the Father and the Holy spirit being the spirit of the Father Himself is also of the Father.
    8. this seems a fairly straight forward concept to me and I do not believe I'm in err saying this. If it be so then Father open my eyes to see this 3 as 1 theory but it would seem scripture is fairly straight forward on the matter Jesus is our only intercessor between us and the Father.
    Selah
    Right hand is dexios (G1188), from dexasthai, first aorist infinitive of dechomai (G1209). It means to receive, take. Right side, because the right hand was commonly used for this. When giving or receiving is spoken of, preference is given to the right hand. In the case of division or apportionment, the right hand is chosen as that which comes first. God is said to be at the right hand of whom he helps. The enemy is to the right of whom he overcomes. The accuser is to the right of the accused. By the right hand the whole man is claimed.. The right hand is the position of equal honor and dignity given to one by another of higher rank to symbolize equality.

    The right hand is the justified position of equal honor and authority. It is NOT a location.

    Jesus is the Theoanthropos. Are you suggesting the Father as Spirit has a literal bodily form and is physically sitting on a throne as another Theoanthropos with Jesus physically sitting in His throne also? Which is it? Physically side-by-side on multiple thrones or one in the other's lap in the Father's throne per Revelation 7, etc.?

    Right hand isn't a celestially GPSable location. It's a symbolic confirmation of equality of honor and authority as the position of justification. There aren't two (or three) Theoanthropi "seated" in heaven. Sitting is a position of rest, symbolizing work completed. Jesus completed His redemptive work and is thus justified and of equal honor.

    Question: Where is the Holy Ghost-"person" in eternity? Floating about? Hovering around? Is the "co-equal" third God-"person" not worthy of a throne or of sitting in the Father's throne? Where He at if He's equal and a God-"person"?

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine



    The Historical Background

    Sabellius, a third-century theologian and priest, was a proponent of modalism. Modalism is a non-Trinitarian heresy claiming that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply different modes of God and not distinct persons within the Godhead. Little is known about Sabellius, who was excommunicated in 220 AD, but the teaching attached to his name became infamous and is still with us today.

    Sabellius’ View of God

    The modalists were rightly concerned with maintaining the oneness of God as well as the full deity of Christ. However, this led them to the error of seeing any suggestion that the Son was a distinct person from the Father as creating a duality within the Godhead. Early historian Hippolytus summarized the modalist position as one in which the names “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit” did not stand for real distinctions in the Godhead, but rather mere names that described the actions of the one God at different times in history. In other words, “Father,” “Son,” and “Spirit” are merely adjectives describing how the one divine Being acts and is perceived. Sabellius used the analogy of the sun to explain his position. In the same way that the sun gives off both light and heat, so also the single divine being radiates in history in different fashions. In creation, the divine Being acts as Father; in redemption, as Son; in the lives of believers, as the Holy Spirit.

    The Orthodox Response

    The orthodox response to the heresy of Sabellius (and other modalists) came from Tertullian, the African theologian. In Against Praxeas, Tertullian argued that Scripture reveals that the Godhead is three who are at the same time one. He rightly considered this an essential doctrine of Christianity. In the Sabellian modalist view, the three are not anything real, but rather just different manifestations of the one. Therefore, Tertullian proposed that we speak of the Godhead as “one substance (substantia) consisting in three persons (persona).” This terminology would serve as the basis for future Latin theology, and it is from Tertullian’s pen that the important Christian word “Trinity” (trinitas) was first inked.

    Why Does All This Matter?

    Sabellianism is one of the heresies in Christendom that keeps appearing again and again in different forms. Anyone who has sat in a Sunday School class and heard that God’s Tri-unity is like water in that it appears to us in three forms (liquid, steam, and ice) has been exposed to a contemporary variation of modalism. God is not one person that exists in three different forms at three different times, but three distinct persons concurrently sharing one common essence.

    Modalism also reared its ugly head in the classic liberal theology of Friedrich Schleiermacher, and it is even seen today in the “Oneness” sect of Pentecostalism, which clearly denies the doctrine of the Trinity. What is at stake in the debate is not merely fancy theological terminology, but our understanding of God himself. For example, if Sabellian modalism were true, the intimate relationship that existed between the Father and the Son from all eternity (John 17) would be irrational. Modalism undercuts the atoning work of Jesus Christ, as well. If there is only one God who works in different modes of being throughout history, one must question whether Jesus Christ was truly a man, or if he only appeared to be such, as the heresy of Docetism declares. If Jesus Christ is not fully God and fully man, then he cannot be the one mediator between God and man. It is for this reason that the heresy of Sabellian modalism must be rejected, and the biblical doctrine of the Trinity must be affirmed.

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post


    The Historical Background

    Sabellius, a third-century theologian and priest, was a proponent of modalism. Modalism is a non-Trinitarian heresy claiming that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply different modes of God and not distinct persons within the Godhead. Little is known about Sabellius, who was excommunicated in 220 AD, but the teaching attached to his name became infamous and is still with us today.

    Sabellius’ View of God

    The modalists were rightly concerned with maintaining the oneness of God as well as the full deity of Christ. However, this led them to the error of seeing any suggestion that the Son was a distinct person from the Father as creating a duality within the Godhead. Early historian Hippolytus summarized the modalist position as one in which the names “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit” did not stand for real distinctions in the Godhead, but rather mere names that described the actions of the one God at different times in history. In other words, “Father,” “Son,” and “Spirit” are merely adjectives describing how the one divine Being acts and is perceived. Sabellius used the analogy of the sun to explain his position. In the same way that the sun gives off both light and heat, so also the single divine being radiates in history in different fashions. In creation, the divine Being acts as Father; in redemption, as Son; in the lives of believers, as the Holy Spirit.

    The Orthodox Response

    The orthodox response to the heresy of Sabellius (and other modalists) came from Tertullian, the African theologian. In Against Praxeas, Tertullian argued that Scripture reveals that the Godhead is three who are at the same time one. He rightly considered this an essential doctrine of Christianity. In the Sabellian modalist view, the three are not anything real, but rather just different manifestations of the one. Therefore, Tertullian proposed that we speak of the Godhead as “one substance (substantia) consisting in three persons (persona).” This terminology would serve as the basis for future Latin theology, and it is from Tertullian’s pen that the important Christian word “Trinity” (trinitas) was first inked.

    Why Does All This Matter?

    Sabellianism is one of the heresies in Christendom that keeps appearing again and again in different forms. Anyone who has sat in a Sunday School class and heard that God’s Tri-unity is like water in that it appears to us in three forms (liquid, steam, and ice) has been exposed to a contemporary variation of modalism. God is not one person that exists in three different forms at three different times, but three distinct persons concurrently sharing one common essence.

    Modalism also reared its ugly head in the classic liberal theology of Friedrich Schleiermacher, and it is even seen today in the “Oneness” sect of Pentecostalism, which clearly denies the doctrine of the Trinity. What is at stake in the debate is not merely fancy theological terminology, but our understanding of God himself. For example, if Sabellian modalism were true, the intimate relationship that existed between the Father and the Son from all eternity (John 17) would be irrational. Modalism undercuts the atoning work of Jesus Christ, as well. If there is only one God who works in different modes of being throughout history, one must question whether Jesus Christ was truly a man, or if he only appeared to be such, as the heresy of Docetism declares. If Jesus Christ is not fully God and fully man, then he cannot be the one mediator between God and man. It is for this reason that the heresy of Sabellian modalism must be rejected, and the biblical doctrine of the Trinity must be affirmed.
    Ummm... I'm not Sabellianist. I'd take Oneness over Trinitarianism, though.

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    Right hand is dexios (G1188), from dexasthai, first aorist infinitive of dechomai (G1209). It means to receive, take. Right side, because the right hand was commonly used for this. When giving or receiving is spoken of, preference is given to the right hand. In the case of division or apportionment, the right hand is chosen as that which comes first. God is said to be at the right hand of whom he helps. The enemy is to the right of whom he overcomes. The accuser is to the right of the accused. By the right hand the whole man is claimed.. The right hand is the position of equal honor and dignity given to one by another of higher rank to symbolize equality.

    The right hand is the justified position of equal honor and authority. It is NOT a location.

    Jesus is the Theoanthropos. Are you suggesting the Father as Spirit has a literal bodily form and is physically sitting on a throne as another Theoanthropos with Jesus physically sitting in His throne also? Which is it? Physically side-by-side on multiple thrones or one in the other's lap in the Father's throne per Revelation 7, etc.?

    Right hand isn't a celestially GPSable location. It's a symbolic confirmation of equality of honor and authority as the position of justification. There aren't two (or three) Theoanthropi "seated" in heaven. Sitting is a position of rest, symbolizing work completed. Jesus completed His redemptive work and is thus justified and of equal honor.

    Question: Where is the Holy Ghost-"person" in eternity? Floating about? Hovering around? Is the "co-equal" third God-"person" not worthy of a throne or of sitting in the Father's throne? Where He at if He's equal and a God-"person"?
    The father created all things 1 being the father as the Father is omnipotent, omniscience he can seperate his spirit (The Holy Spirit) from His Self (an embodiment representing The Father neither whole nor unwhole) Jesus is of the father meaning from the father as in as much a part of the father as any earthly man would consider his own son of him as well he is his ONLY son.
    1. When jesus ascended to heaven after the resurrection The bible states and I quote
    Matthew 28:18 (Whole Chapter)
    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    GIVEN not aquired back but given by the father.

    The prayer in the garden of gethsemane He did not pray to the holy spirit for the cup to be taken away he prayed to HIS Father who was in heaven.

    3 seperate entities 1 source not one being
    All things come from the father

    Selah

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by Muskokaman View Post
    The father created all things 1 being the father as the Father is omnipotent, omniscience he can seperate his spirit (The Holy Spirit) from His Self (an embodiment representing The Father neither whole nor unwhole) Jesus is of the father meaning from the father as in as much a part of the father as any earthly man would consider his own son of him as well he is his ONLY son.
    1. When jesus ascended to heaven after the resurrection The bible states and I quote
    Matthew 28:18 (Whole Chapter)
    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    GIVEN not aquired back but given by the father.

    The prayer in the garden of gethsemane He did not pray to the holy spirit for the cup to be taken away he prayed to HIS Father who was in heaven.

    3 seperate entities 1 source not one being
    All things come from the father

    Selah
    So... Now God is "3 separate entities" and "not one being". (above bolded) That's not even Trinity. That's outright unveiled Tritheism.

    I have no issues with the rest. For some reason, Trinis think everything can only be accounted for within Trinity doctrine by default. Every God-model has a thorough apologetic to account for these various passages. Declared assent by personal perception and indoctrination is NOT "proof".

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    I need to ask this... Ok so Jesus and God is One!... God says in Genesis, His Spirit moved upon the face of the waters. And then we read Jesus as a man in flesh walked on th water, and to make things worse, so did Peter until he doubted. Spirit on water, I can understand, flesh and weight?.... Please explain the flesh on the water.

    Second, spirit into a cosed room, ok, but when Jesus appeared and said to Thomas... Hey put your hand in my side, and feel the gaping hole... That flesh could evn go through walls? Can you explain this? Or is it becasue with the Spirit of God (God is that Spirit) So with GOD EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE!

    And explain the ONENESS is this.... When Saul persecuteth the righteouss people Jesus said.... Saul Saul why persecuteth thou ME! Were these people now also God of God's Spirit?

    M<aybe that can help me understand the ONE NESS.... And did Jesus not say in John 10:30... I and the Father are ONE!!!! why did He not say... I and the Father are two in one! Or three in on, Or we are trinity... Nope He said ONE! becasue Jesus IS THE FATHER!!! The Spirit is the Father. And God is the Father. One means ONE! One plus one plus one = 3. But one times one times one is still ONE! Do not add...multiply one with ONE!!!!

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    The Godhead is triune in nature.

    Not any institutions definition of triune...just the simplest definition.

    3 in 1.

    1 in 3.

    If you wanna impose the creedal dogmas of certain institutions that use the words trinity or triune and layer them over my simple definition to label me an IDOLATOR....then go for it. Just know that you are contributing to the PHARISAIC TALMUDIC killing machine in the form of the Noahide laws that will murder the Saints en masse in the near future.

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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    So... Now God is "3 separate entities" and "not one being". (above bolded) That's not even Trinity. That's outright unveiled Tritheism.

    I have no issues with the rest. For some reason, Trinis think everything can only be accounted for within Trinity doctrine by default. Every God-model has a thorough apologetic to account for these various passages. Declared assent by personal perception and indoctrination is NOT "proof".
    See this just proves my point.

    You've labelled this man an IDOLATOR. He's described a triune nature of the Godhead using certain words and EVEN SAID ALL THINGS COME FROM THE FATHER.....and BOOM.....you've sentenced him to death under noahide law, on the basis no doubt of future SUPER INTELLECTUAL semantic jargon in your next few posts.

    Well done...carry on.

    Hey...I got an idea...I'll call Mosaad HQ and tell em to monitor this thread so's they can sort out exactly who's an idolator ready for the big round up!

    Oh wait.....they're prolly doing that already.

  15. #15
    castleforjesus
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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    God manifested himself in flesh. God planned Jesus birth at the beginning of time. There are not 3 persons!! The book of John alone is an onenss book. It explains who Jesus really is. The words trinity is NOT recorded in scripture.. they take 2 verses and run with it.. Matthew 28:19 and 1 john 5:7. They also use the "right hand" in reference also. The right hand is a symbol. God does not literally have a right hand.

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    Post Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Dear AtonedFor
    Real proof that the Trinity is a true doctrine.
    "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. ...." Genesis 1:26 OSB SAAS page 8. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; ..." Matthew 28:19-20 OSB NKJV page 1327.
    OSB = Orthodox Study Bible SAAS Saint Athanasius Academy Septuagint NKJV New King James Version correct sources of Christian truth
    God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

    [quote=AtonedFor;536871]
    This is what we need Real PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    The Bible reveals that God consists of ONE God in THREE “Persons”
    … especially in the NT, which is God’s prophesied New Covenant.

    verses
    4 -- prophecy: God will be born on the earth
    6 -- Jesus claimed to be the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14-15
    8 -- Jesus hinted that He was the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14-15
    7 -- Jesus was the exact image, form, fullness, etc. of Father God
    8 -- Jesus claimed equality with Father God
    10 - others said Jesus was God (or equal with Father God)
    2 -- Jesus claimed to be the Son of God
    6 -- others (including demons) said Jesus was the Son of God
    8 -- Jesus was the Creator of all things
    2 -- Jesus is the Sustainer (now) of all things
    6 -- Jesus claimed to be the Giver of eternal life
    3 -- others said Jesus is the Giver of eternal life
    11 - names(titles) shared by God in the OT and Jesus in the NT
    30 - Jesus had total power and authority over everything and everybody
    7 –- reveal: God = Lord of lords = Lamb of God = the Word = Jesus
    10 - the Holy Spirit lives inside born-again believers
    30 - the Holy Spirit has the attributes of a person
    13 - all 3 “Persons” of the Trinity are mentioned

    Pick any one of these topics (except the two 30’s), and I’ll show you the verses (they’re ready).

    Okay, we’ll be in the flesh here with no spiritual revelation involved.
    We’ll deal only with intelligence, logic, reasoning, and common sense …

    Friend, Using human intelligence, logic, and reasoning and common sense, you won't ever understand the Bible. You and I both need the Holy Spirit to be led into all truth (John 16:!3), for without Christ we can do nothing (John 15). God bless us. God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington



    Above is the LARGE body of evidence (over 100 verses) for the Trinity in the Bible.
    This is the starting point … the foundation.
    If the Bible is viewed through this lens, it will be easier to understand.
    If it is not viewed through this lens, some verses will appear to conflict.

    And, as is true in all of life,
    all information about something is rarely repeated every time it is mentioned.

    An example of using some common sense:
    -- The Bible says Jesus Christ was a human being born on this earth.
    -- And the Bible also says Jesus was God manifested in human form.
    -- The human part of His nature struggled in His body of flesh (as we do).
    -- He obviously was in an inferior position to Father God who was in Heaven.
    -- And He really didn’t want to suffer the agonies of crucifixion, etc.
    So, in the 5 short sentences above we have cleared up a lot of confusion about Jesus.

    We have provided above a large body of evidence for the Trinity in the Bible.
    Therefore, it is up to you who say there is “No Trinity” to prove your case.
    Proof does not include your emotions, opinions, etc. nor those of anyone else.

    How about a tiny scrap of an old manuscript or Bible that is actually missing
    (for example) some Trinity information found in today’s Bibles?

    Someone from hundreds of years ago claiming “Bible alteration” would be worth investigating.

    How about something (anything) concrete … some hard facts?

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    Post Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by castleforjesus View Post
    God manifested himself in flesh. God planned Jesus birth at the beginning of time. There are not 3 persons!! The book of John alone is an onenss book. It explains who Jesus really is. The words trinity is NOT recorded in scripture.. they take 2 verses and run with it.. Matthew 28:19 and 1 john 5:7. They also use the "right hand" in reference also. The right hand is a symbol. God does not literally have a right hand.
    The word "oneness" is not in Scripture either. But it is True (John 16:13), that God is One God in Three Persons (Genesis 1:26, Matthew 28:19, 1 John 5:7). God the Son (Jesus Christ) DOES literally have a right hand!



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    Default Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by castleforjesus View Post
    God manifested himself in flesh. God planned Jesus birth at the beginning of time. There are not 3 persons!! The book of John alone is an onenss book. It explains who Jesus really is. The words trinity is NOT recorded in scripture.. they take 2 verses and run with it.. Matthew 28:19 and 1 john 5:7. They also use the "right hand" in reference also. The right hand is a symbol. God does not literally have a right hand.
    Ok well if your gonna say 'right hand' is just a symbol then I'm gonna say the word PERSONS is just symbolic.

    Ok?

    So can we stop this senseless divisionary nonsense now?

    Can I use the word trinity without being branded an idolator?

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    Post Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    [quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;537012]How about PROOF that God is three "persons" from ANY scripture? Inferred personal attributes and other smoke and mirrors are not "proof" of anything but doctrinal formulation.

    • Isaiah 42:1 is Messianic prophecy that God's SOUL is well pleased in the Son.
    • Matthew 12:18 is a direct NT quote of that Messianic prophecy.
    • Matthew 3:17 (and Mark and Luke parallels) records the voice from heaven speaking of being well pleased in the Son.
    • 2Peter 1:17 is Apostolic confirmation that the Father was speaking at the baptism.

    God's Soul/the Father is well pleased in the Son. The Father is God's Soul.

    Several scriptures speak of God's Spirit. The Word was made flesh, which is the Son.

    God is Spirit-Soul-Body of One Divinity.
    Dear friend, Are you a Berean? Where do the Scriptures say "God is Spirit-Soul-Body".
    Is God the Father Body? IS God the Holy Spirit Body? God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington




    (Divinity is Godhead, which is Theotes. It is the singular personality of God.)

    God is not "person(s)" of ANY quantity; and there isn't scripture to say otherwise beyond inference.[/
    Friend, If that is so, Who is the "Us" and "Our" of Genesis 1:26?
    In Erie Scott H.

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    Post Re: PROOF that the Trinity is a false doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
    Ok well if your gonna say 'right hand' is just a symbol then I'm gonna say the word PERSONS is just symbolic.

    Ok?

    So can we stop this senseless divisionary nonsense now?

    Can I use the word trinity without being branded an idolator?
    Good for you, Strangelove. You do not know the truth (John 16:13, John 15:26, Jude 3, 1 Tim. 3:15, Matt. 16:18), about the Eastern Orthodox Church, but at least, like the EOC, you believe in the Trinity. Is that not so? God bless you! In Erie Scott H.


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