Against Cessationism

[jonathanbchristian]

The heart of cessationism is based on 1 Corinthians 13:8-13

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Cessationism teaches that this prophecy is fulfilled because the Bible was completed and the Church was founded. If you read 1 Corinthians 13 you might notice that the Bible and the founding of the Church are never mentioned. This is where cessationist have added to the Bible. This reminds me of the disciples question to Jesus in Acts 1:6

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom of Israel?"

The disciples had assumed that the prophecy would be fulfilled in the time they chose. Cessationist on the other hand have chosen the past for the time of the prophecy in 1 Corinthians 13 to be fulfilled. Jesus answer I believe sheds some light on why we were not given a certain time for the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Acts 1:7 "And He said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

We are not told a specific time when the prophecy of 1 Corinthians 13 will be fulfilled. To be honest the foundation of the Church and the completion of the Bible are not mentioned. Cessationist have added to the Bible. That's right. They have added to the Bible. If we read the Bible we will find that the doctrine of Cessationism is not even in the Bible. The Bible simply didn't say when it would happen like when Jesus wouldn't tell the disciples when the kingdom of Israel would be restored.

In conclusion, Cessationism has no Biblical support because Jesus never told us when this prophecy would be fulfilled. The founding of the Church is not mentioned as the time when it would be fulfilled. Cessationist made that up. The completion of the Bible is not mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13, so if you look you can see Cessationist trying to cram it in there. Cessationism is a group of believers that have given a time to a prophecy that they themselves picked. This prophecy is not yet complete. They are a group of believers that have a false view and false doctrine concerning the prophecy of 1 Corinthians 13.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

I wanted to repost this. God bless.

 

[loveschild]

God is not dead to everyone.

 

[zone]

i wish you people would at least learn the subject.
Linda i would love to have you seated next to charles spurgeon for 10 minutes.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

i wish you people would at least learn the subject.
Linda i would love to have you seated next to charles spurgeon for 10 minutes.

If it's not about 1 Corinthians 13, then what verses do you use to make up your false doctrine? I find it interesting that the completion of the Bible is not mentioned in the Bible as part of a prophecy. And that the foundation of the Church is not mentioned with any prophecy. Yet you have a whole doctrine based on adding these two things to the Bible's prophecy.

 

[zone]

If it's not about 1 Corinthians 13, then what verses do you use to make up your false doctrine? I find it interesting that the completion of the Bible is not mentioned in the Bible as part of a prophecy. And that the foundation of the Church is not mentioned with any prophecy. Yet you have a whole doctrine based on adding these two things to the Bible's prophecy.

look.
you're a Pentecostal, and you think you're a prophet.
you're incapable of reading the Corinth chapters and Acts as anything other than being about you (which they aren't).

even if they were, the things Pentecostals claim are those gifts are not remotely like them.

you're practicing some form of spirituality but its not Historic Christianity.

you're not a prophet.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

look.
you're a Pentecostal, and you think you're a prophet.
you're incapable of reading the Corinth chapters and Acts as anything other than being about you (which they aren't).

even if they were, the things Pentecostals claim are those gifts are not remotely like them.

you're practicing some form of spirituality but its not Historic Christianity.

you're not a prophet.

Everyone can read 1 Corinthians 13 and find out that your doctrine adds to the Bible. Is that what bothers you? There is no mention of the Bible or the foundation of the Church in that chapter; that's the facts.

 

[Red33]

look.
you're a Pentecostal, and you think you're a prophet.
you're incapable of reading the Corinth chapters and Acts as anything other than being about you (which they aren't).

even if they were, the things Pentecostals claim are those gifts are not remotely like them.

you're practicing some form of spirituality but its not Historic Christianity.

you're not a prophet.

You are a confounded 'amillennialist' that is not qualified to tell this man or anyone else about 'cessationalism'. You are living in doctrine that did not come from the apostles and you do not speak the word correctly in the same measure that you accuse this man of not being a prophet.

Leave this man alone and keep to yourself until you can get this other stuff straightened out and put yourself under a pastor-teacher that can teach you the word and doctrine with precise and correct knowledge. Don't be angry just humble yourself and let God give you grace that you have never received.

Zone, you like to dish it out but can you take it? Do you like reaping what you sow toward others? Do you like judging and having it come back on you justified?

 

[zone]

You are a confounded 'amillennialist' that is not qualified to tell this man or anyone else about 'cessationalism'. You are living in doctrine that did not come from the apostles and you do not speak the word correctly in the same measure that you accuse this man of not being a prophet.

Leave this man alone and keep to yourself until you can get this other stuff straightened out and put yourself under a pastor-teacher that can teach you the word and doctrine with precise and correct knowledge. Don't be angry just humble yourself and let God give you grace that you have never received.

Zone, you like to dish it out but can you take it? Do you like reaping what you sow toward others? Do you like judging and having it come back on you justified?

your talk is bouncing right off me red.
you don't know me at all.

 

[Red33]

your talk is bouncing right off me red.
you don't know me at all.

You can make those false claims all you want because they mean nothing. We are know by your words and as a man thinketh in his heart so is he. That applies to you Zone and to me and everyone else. You and I will be judged by our words that come from our tongue. You have said plenty and no one will deny that!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Everyone can read 1 Corinthians 13 and find out that your doctrine adds to the Bible. Is that what bothers you? There is no mention of the Bible or the foundation of the Church in that chapter; that's the facts.

We know the facts. Your no prophet. You do not even know Gods word.

God told the church to go into the world. He did not tell the church to bring the world into them. Charismatics miss this point. this point alone proves charismatic churches are nothing but money hungry feelings based churches of satan(I know of none which believe in eternal security, if they do based on faith. they might be a true church, but in serious trouble.).

If charismatic churches were of God. they would go to hospitals and heal people and not ask for money. they would go to funeral homes and raise people from the dead. They would go into the world. And do as paul did. And work for their own food and living, and not ask anything of anyone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can make those false claims all you want because they mean nothing. We are know by your words and as a man thinketh in his heart so is he. That applies to you Zone and to me and everyone else. You and I will be judged by our words that come from our tongue. You have said plenty and no one will deny that!

I hate to say it dude. But your as bad as strangelove. This has nothing to do with amillinialism, and you bringing that up in here is just plain wrong. Your no better than him doing that to me, It does not matter than Zone disagrees with us on the millenial things. It does not mean she is not right in here. And to condemn her as you just did is just plain wrong! and does nothing but cause division

 

[jonathanbchristian]

We know the facts. Your no prophet. You do not even know Gods word.

God told the church to go into the world. He did not tell the church to bring the world into them. Charismatics miss this point. this point alone proves charismatic churches are nothing but money hungry feelings based churches of satan(I know of none which believe in eternal security, if they do based on faith. they might be a true church, but in serious trouble.).

If charismatic churches were of God. they would go to hospitals and heal people and not ask for money. they would go to funeral homes and raise people from the dead. They would go into the world. And do as paul did. And work for their own food and living, and not ask anything of anyone.

I'm 100% sure that your church takes money too, or it wouldn't exist. Come on. Don't pretend that Charasmatics are that differnet than your church. What church doesn't take offerings and donations? Maybe your church should try to do what it does without money.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

I hate to say it dude. But your as bad as strangelove. This has nothing to do with amillinialism, and you bringing that up in here is just plain wrong. Your no better than him doing that to me, It does not matter than Zone disagrees with us on the millenial things. It does not mean she is not right in here. And to condemn her as you just did is just plain wrong! and does nothing but cause division

That's funny because you usually bring up people's doctrine that doesn't have to do with the thread yourself.

 

[Red33]

I hate to say it dude. But your as bad as strangelove. This has nothing to do with amillinialism, and you bringing that up in here is just plain wrong. Your no better than him doing that to me, It does not matter than Zone disagrees with us on the millenial things. It does not mean she is not right in here. And to condemn her as you just did is just plain wrong! and does nothing but cause division

No kidding, but don't let it effect you and what you want to post and maybe some day you will understand why, but until then keep the faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm 100% sure that your church takes money too, or it wouldn't exist. Come on. Don't pretend that Charasmatics are that differnet than your church. What church doesn't take offerings and donations? Maybe your church should try to do what it does without money.

1. My church does not take money from visitors. Only regular members. We offer all visitors a free gift. but they do not even know that till they get there. It is not advertised. And it is nothing that would bring people anyway. It is one of two books which explain our faith.
2. My church uses its spiritual gifts out in the world to help younger Christians and non Christians alike. To help bring them to the church. the only gifts used in church service are the teachers and the band.
3. My church does what a church should do on Sunday. Equip the saints with a through the bible teaching (not 20 minute sermonettes) . Fellowship. Pray.
4. I never said a church should not pay its bills. I said a church should not charge people to use the gifts God supposedly has given it. Especially when these gifts are to be done outsidse the church, to bring people in.

again, why don't you go to hospitals where people need you. Go to funerals were people need you. Do wondrous signs and miracles. This will bring people in so you can do what is supposed to be done in church.

typical of you to not look at the meat of my argument and make a mockery of what I said. then again. Thats what people like you do. Because deep inside you know what I am saying is true. your just to proud to admit it.

God called the church to go out and make disciples. Not invite people to come in, get healed and demand money.

 

[needmesomejesus]

I think it's a personal conviction and how one interprets 1 Corinthians 13:8 but I don't think its that important. I mean it has nothing to do with salvation so it's kind of pointless to argue especially since every uses that verse to back up their opinion.

 

[Crossfire]

I think all of us would agree that the bible itself alone is the standard for christian living and doctrine. No where in the bible does it state clearly or extensively that gifts have ceased during the current 'dispensation' for lack of a better term.

Please understand, there are many themes that appear consistantly throughout scripture. It is from these themes which we derive our doctrines. Themes such as Jesus as the Christ, salvation by faith alone and not works, imputed righteousness and the process of sanctification just to name a few. These themes can be proven because they appear time and time again in the scriptures.

Now taking this into consideration, let's take another look at 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12 (NKJ):

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.


There are two basic views held by Cessationists. I have heard both views expressed on these boards. I have even heard certain individuals repeat both views which makes no sense to me seeing these views tend to contradict one another however, for the sake of discussion, let's review both.

The first view is that the perfect mentioned in verse 10 is that the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased once the canon of scripture was complete. The problem with this view is that throughout the centuries Christian bishops and scholars have debated heavily as to which books should be included in the canon and which should not. The bible used traditionally by Catholics for over 1500 years contains several books of the bible that both the the Bible Used by the Eastern Orthodox Church (which has been around just as long if not longer than Catholicism if not longer. The Eastern Orthodox bible contains more books that your typical Protestant bible. There are many different translations of the Protestant bible which vary in interpretation, each possessing equal validity to the meaning of their interpretations. Because of everything that I have just listed, there is no way to discern whether or not that the bible you now hold in your hands is the complete canon of scripture.

The second view makes a bit more sense however, it is every bit as controversial and questionable as the first. That view hangs on the idea that the perfect mentioned in verse 10 is the kingdom / millennium. I tend to agree with this assessment however, the million dollar question is whether or not we are currently living in the millennium or is the millennium yet to come. I believe the key to unlocking this scripture's intended meaning rests in verse 12:

'For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.'

Notice that Paul uses the terms 'face to face' and 'as I also am known'. I find it hard to believe that Paul is referring to a place or a period time because both terms imply personal interaction of some sort. This leads me to believe that the perfect mentioned in verse 10 is not a a thing, a place or a time but a person.

Now let's go back to the original topic of this conversation. We can safely derive our doctrine according to scriptural themes found throughout the bible. We can safely discern the central themes of the bible given the number of times a subject is discussed in the bible and how these discussions compare to and agree with one another. Taking all of the writings of the New Testament into consideration, I have yet to find a single theme that does not revolve around the return of Jesus Christ. I believe that we can safely assume that the 2nd coming is the central theme of the entire New Testament because Jesus himself refers to this several times in the gospels.

In my mind, this controversy is settled. The gifts of the Holy Spirit will not cease until the physical return of Jesus Christ. Anything else is poor exegesis of scripture.

 

[Fencepost]

Oh my Lord there is a BLUEGRASS BIG TENT REVIVAL going on right now in the thread Private Thread! Move on over! Praise the Lord!

 

[Muskokaman]

Oh my Lord there is a BLUEGRASS BIG TENT REVIVAL going on right now in the thread Private Thread! Move on over! Praise the Lord!

I love bluegrass music!