What does "Jesus in Me" mean to you?

[AnandaHya]

Ok Cobus here is the thread.

Normally we refer to the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling within people but I'll start us with the Bible verses...

Romans 8

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:


“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[c]

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

what do you think the firstfruits of the Spirit refers to? I would source Galatians 5: 22-23

Why do you think it says we HOPE for the adoption and redemption of our bodies? Romans 8: 23, see 1 Corinthians 15 for my answer

Do you know the other verses about Birth pangs and what the world is going through? see Revelations 12

ok. ball's in your court.

 

[Cobus]

Nan thank you and I will respond, but I have to get ready with my son, we are going fishing tommorow, This we will continue, God willing and I truly believe after this time shared in HIS Word we will both be richer and blessed with more Love from God. Please excuse me for the next say 36 hours, but I look very forward to this discussion...I will respond with word and ideas on faith and we will have amarvelous time with God, this 36 hours will be mostly spend PRAYING for His blessings on this meeting with NAN!

May the Lord be the one that smile after we came to the end of this. Thank you for your time, and your patience, soory that I had to go now, bye for now, I believe God will let us have this talk and study,,, see you in about 36 hours time.

 

[Consumed]

Greater is He that is in me than he who is in the world.
I am more than a conquerer thru Christ Jesus who strengthens me
What is impossible for man is possible with God
Stand

Just responding to thread title 

 

[Shilo]

Jesus in me is walking as he walked the best I can and not picking through his word and then decide what I will do. If we walk in the full counsel we will not be deceived.

 

[AnandaHya]

Nan thank you and I will respond, but I have to get ready with my son, we are going fishing tommorow, This we will continue, God willing and I truly believe after this time shared in HIS Word we will both be richer and blessed with more Love from God. Please excuse me for the next say 36 hours, but I look very forward to this discussion...I will respond with word and ideas on faith and we will have amarvelous time with God, this 36 hours will be mostly spend PRAYING for His blessings on this meeting with NAN!

May the Lord be the one that smile after we came to the end of this. Thank you for your time, and your patience, soory that I had to go now, bye for now, I believe God will let us have this talk and study,,, see you in about 36 hours time.

its alright cobus lol I'm leaving town for the weekend too. we'll see who gets back first lol. I'll pray about the subject and we'll discuss it later I have a feeling we need to iron out what you think perfection, sanctification and salvation means and when you think it happens as well as when and how the Holy Spirit leds us in our walk in this world.

 

[Cobus]

Nan we are already far apart, so let me suggest we start where we are first aware there is a God, and a Holy Spirit. So let us start at step one of salvation...
The best truth I know is my own life. So I will use my experience with God, and I will share 100%, holding nothing back and share my whole walk with God with you, then you know exactly why I am what I am today. I will not go into detail, but I promise I will be truthful. Nothing I say will have any lies in it. We are busy with salvation, and we are busy to try and get me saved! So this is no light matter, and I am really in need of the Lord.

So we will begin where my salvation starts! My salvatin started the day God wrote my name in the book of life... this day was even before the earth was formed! Step one of salvation completed! Bible verse to confirm.... Romans 8:30... 30 Moreover whom He predestined,

Step two of salvation... God's calling!.... these He also called... Ok, this is how God called me.... I was standing in a church and the people were singing the Lord's prayer... I did not believe there was a God or even knew what He says, does or teaches. It did not bother me NOTHING whether God was real or not... Then while the people sang I all of a sudden saw my life flash before my closed eyes... It was a MESS!!!! At that very moment all things I liked doing in my life turned to filth and dirt... And I was very sorry about it. I felt very sad and cried like NEVER before, what a mess! I saw a scroll wit all the sin written in it, it was a thick scroll. but as the scroll was rewinded half the sin was already removed... I knew not even a single verse in the Bible, so I had NO idea what was happening. Later I would learn it was God calling me home! But God not only call me home, he call me to come home, as a SAINT! I am called to be a saint in His home. Romans 1:7... beloved of God, called to be saints... another verse to consider about this calling... I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. And one more NAN... There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
So this made it very clear even as I knew NOTHING of this, that God called me to a special place, but at this moment there in church, I was MILES from God. I was in the pit of hell in sin right there... Nan the only thing I knew then was that at that very moment ALL my life was DARK, except for this one ray of hope... One ray of light... It looks like God will do something about the situation. Some years later, I would discover that God not only showed me the sin in my life, but also what He would accomplish in me, because a few steps behind the scroll, was a man standing, that had a body of light! The whole body of the man was a shining gemstone, and even another few years later when I saw that vision again, I strained my eyes as I thought it was Jesus, but it was not, it was a SHINING ME! Right here on earth still... The verse that later made me understand this light-man... But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: ....If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
God showed this man with NO LIGHT IN HIM, that he will remove the darkness so good that there will ONLY BE LIGHT IN HIM! God showed me NO PART DARK!

Ok Nan, I will go this far... Remember here in the church, I was NOTHING different but this AWAKENING that there is a God, and He is pretty special... I felt as though all the people there were so holy, and I am the ONLY sinner there! But remember I knew NOTHING!!!

Nan I went to 5 sundayschool classes in my life! I Never was indoctrinated by ANY doctrine.. And here I am, a Mechanical Engineer in a church, and I am 38 years old. With two daughters 5 and 7 years old and a wife that grew up in a church! I am in South Africa, considered as one of the most Chrsitian countries in the world. But me, nope I was a wild one having a mean streak in me straight from hell! I was a very cruel boy Nan, no details just believe me, I could torture animals when I was 5 years old!

So here God's calling started... And Jesus said ...No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: .... Let us just focus on the draw and calling now, becasue the calling is the second step started, but the draw starts IMMEDIATELY after the calling. Because I am so FAR from Jesus now, the Father called me, and now He will start to draw me. The Holy Spirit is now a force in my conscience and he does three things there...1. He reproof me of my sin.... 2. He convince me of Father's righteousness... and 3. He also convince me of the judgement.
In that few minutes all these things STARTED there! I knew I would be lead to the place God wants me to be....So I knew there is now a road/Way/path to go onto!
Step two, the calling is complete but the second part of the calling is only started now. The DRAW/LEAD/and comforting only STARTED there.
Ok let us only go to here. For now...

 

[loveschild]

Ok Cobus here is the thread.

Normally we refer to the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling within people but I'll start us with the Bible verses...

Romans 8

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:


“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[c]

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

what do you think the firstfruits of the Spirit refers to? I would source Galatians 5: 22-23

Why do you think it says we HOPE for the adoption and redemption of our bodies? Romans 8: 23, see 1 Corinthians 15 for my answer

Do you know the other verses about Birth pangs and what the world is going through? see Revelations 12

ok. ball's in your court.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I always like these words when thinking of praying in the Spirit.

 

[Cobus]

Nan I had a blessed day, just want to bump up our thread, this one actually has UNITY at heart.. Hope We will be this ONE when God is done with us NAN...
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Nan if God is in both of us we ARE PERFECTLY ONE... Sorry just had to say this... will carry on with how the Spirit leads before He fills! the next part of my walk I want to explain how the Spirit is STILL LEADING ME NOW!

 

[pickles]

Jesus in me?
It is to live no longer in flesh, but in His spirit which resides in this vessle.
It is the constant desire of my heart, to leave every bit of flesh , living only, in Jesus, in me.
This is His gift to us all.
Thankyou Lord Jesus!!!

God bless.
pickles

 

[AnandaHya]

Ok Cobus we have the calling of God in your life. that is good.

Everyone is called in a different way but some stop and think that is all it is. some have sadly been feed the false gospel of Easy beliefism. that all you have to do is say a little prayer, do a little ceremony and you've got your shot and set for life.

Its a lie. It is like saying once you say "Hi God my name is Cobus" that you are married. You know that marriage takes a lot more then then that. But often Love starts with that first Hello. At least it did with me.

So lets talk about how God draws people to Him. Steps covered so far.

1. Awakening
2. conviction to your sin
3. turning away from sin towards GOD (partial repentance, not full until you submit also to the Lordship of God)

now the next step is OBEDIENCE to Christ, walking with God, learning His ways and keeping them. Here are the steps Peter gives us:

2 Peter 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

did you notice that God has already GIVEN ALL things needed for a godly life to those He loves? we just have to learn how to use what God has already given us. just as kids have to learn how to sit up and crawl before they can walk. So we just finished the rolling over on your belly stage. Lets try the sitting up part? yes j/k

what do you think the words:
faith
diligence
virtue
knowledge
self-control
perseverance
godliness
brotherly kindness
love

really mean?

oh in case you are wondering the rest of the steps are
4. submission to Christ, obedience, maturity
5. Abiding in Christ, doing the work God created you for, dying in the faith (unless God decides to take you before death like Enoch or Elijah)

God prepares you for the next step by letting you do a little bit more each day.

 

[Cobus]

Ok I see we do not disagree that much...
Yep I was only to the second step , the one STARTING the Way God wats us to diligently walk in faith, practicing virue, and love, learning to self control the THOUGHTS and actions, to practice the knowlegde God shares with us in His Word, so that He can trust us with BIG things even after He started us with small steps. Becasue as we learn brotherly love, we can see , we also learn to love God in goldliness, to grow in faith and be more obedient, until we are so obedient that God saw us percevere till the end of THE WAY we started on.
We now walked and followed after the LEAD of the Holy Spirit to the place God determined for us.... So now we are mature pureness... READY for the BIG step!

I understand it this way, Many are called few are chosen... The chosen ones are the ones God wrote in the BOOK of LIFE. Because time do not exist for God He knows what happened ten zillion years ago, and He knows all that is to know, even things another ten zillion years in the future. So God knows EXACTLY who will choose to be obedient ALL the way! And them He calls PREDESTINED...

Nan God will not glorify ANY person that who has not his name in the BOOK of LIFE. IUf your name is in there you will be with God, but not becasue you were special, you will be there becasue HE is special, and you chose to be OBEDIENT to the SPECIAL God! And becasue God knew you will choose this He already wrote your name down.

Now! All whoe name is written there, is the ones God glorify with HIS Spirit to GIVE life to that person! And the Way God does it is to let the spirit of that person become ONE WITH JESUS! The Holy Spirit as SON! The Holy Spirit as FATHER led us too the cross and the Holy Spirit as SON is now going to fill us.... The Holy Spirit leads before HE FILLS! Father leads, Jesus unites and fills!

It is the moment Jesus lets us through His blood that we are washed off, ONCE, of ALL the sin we laid down on the WAY the Holy Spirit taught and lead us. And it is here that Jesus is the NARROW gate, the Door to the kingdom, and it is here we are made HIS SHEEP, then if God will ing He sends us out and in to go and harvest for HIS Kingdom.

I will later explain with the Bible verses just how much Jesus becomes us at this step. We can Never be Jesus God, but we Can be Jesus son, becasue HE BECOMES US HERE ON THIS WORLD AT THIS STEP.

Got to go right now, but I will continue how I came to be ALMOST at the BlooD today, May the Lord give me obedience to the faith for ALL THE WAY INTO HIM! Will be back later.

 

[AnandaHya]

you are jumping all over the place Cobus and I do NOT agree that Jesus becomes US.

focus.

1. what does Faith mean? who and what do you have Faith in?

2. Diligence? what is diligence? how does one pray unceasingly?

3. Virtue? do you know what virtue is? I believe you gain virtue by obeying God's commandments to feed the hungry, visit the sick, poor, elderly, widowed, to clothe the naked and to show compassion to others, praying, praising God, etc.

How do you know the being of light is YOU and is that part of why you think JESUS becomes YOU?

Let us address the fact that the being of light might NOT be YOU or JESUS.

who else besides God makes a list of your sins and shows you it again and again?

Who/what else was nailed to the cross besides Jesus?

What was accomplished by Jesus work on the cross?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.


you see GOD has ALREADY given us ALL we need. we just need to understand what it all means and how to use it. A baby already has legs to walk but time and care is needed before the baby is able to grow into the person he or she is suppose to be.

Spiritual maturity mirrors physical maturity.

some people try to fly when they are not even able to crawl or stand.

Which is fine if you have God carrying you, but you must abide in Christ and His Words.

2 Peter 1:2-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I have to go.

I'm not sure we agree on how God saves people. you are describing some type of mystical experience. I was thinking more of life long struggle to walk and work for Jesus with Faith that since Jesus has a hold of you, that HE has, is and will save you. Past present and future blessed assurance.

 

[Strangelove]

What does "Jesus in Me" mean to you?

Is that actually a biblical term?

 

[AnandaHya]

Is that actually a biblical term?

maybe when you translate it to English from Afrikaan?

I was giving him the benefit of doubt, since he suggested that term. still waiting for him to fully explain it without it coming off as chanelling.

 

[lil_christian]

maybe when you translate it to English from Afrikaan?

I was giving him the benefit of doubt, since he suggested that term. still waiting for him to fully explain it without it coming off as chanelling.

Yeah...the term itself sounds a bit...weird...but I guess maybe it won't sound so weird once he explains it in a way that makes sense

 

[Strangelove]

Gnosticism (from gnostikos, "learned", from Greek: γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) is a scholarly term for a set of religious beliefs and spiritual practices common to early Christianity, Hellenistic Judaism, Greco-Roman mystery religions, Zoroastrianism (especially Zurvanism), and Neoplatonism.
A common characteristic of some of these groups was the teaching that the realisation of Gnosis (esoteric or intuitive knowledge), is the way to salvation of the soul from the material world. They saw the material world as created through an intermediary being (demiurge) rather than directly by God. In most of the systems, this demiurge was seen as imperfect, in others even as evil. Different gnostic schools sometimes identified the demiurge as Adam, Ahriman, Samael, Satan, Yaldabaoth, or Yahweh.


Some Christian gnostic sects inverted traditional interpretations of the Hebrew Bible, leading Jewish-Israeli scholar Gershom Scholem (according to Hans Jonas) to call Gnosticism "the greatest case of metaphysical anti-Semitism."[1][2] However, some scholars have argued that Jewish mysticism (Kabbalah) is Gnostic, and more recent research into Gnosticism's origins reveal influence from Jewish Hekhalot mysticism.[3][4]
Jesus is identified by some Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth.

Gnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Deadflesh]

John 17:23
"I(Jesus) in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them, as you have loved me.


Colossians 1:27
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ(Jesus) in you, the hope of glory:

Romans 8:10
"And if Christ(Jesus) be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (and we walk in the SPirit, which is life not the flesh wich is sin and death)

Galatians 2:20
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ(Jesus) lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It measn JESUS lives. Not me. I died. its Jesus that lives. Everytime you sin(rebel agaisnt GOD), thats not Jesus. thats YOU, and YOUR deeds of flesh have not been completely crucifed. Jesus NEVER sinned, and if HIS spirit is what leads you, then if YOU sined HE did not lead you to sin, which means you are not walking in him, which means you are rebellious in an area of your life and need to repent for the idol in your life.

IF you Sin that means you have taken LORDSHIP back over your life, and the SPIRIT of CHRIST in you is NOT leading you anymore. And that means then you must ask for forgiveness and repent. If WE sin, that means that WE have taken the reigns of our life and JESUS in us is not leading, which means HE is not LORD. and if Jesus is not lord OF all, he isnt LORD AT ALL.

WE must love HIM with ALL of our heart, soul, mind and strength. DO YOU love him with your strength? is ALL your strength focused on NOT sinning? Temptation comes to TEST YOUR LOVE. HAVE you resisted to the point of sheding blood? We NEVER have to Sin if JESUS is in us. IF we do we must go to him and ask for forgivenes, and ask him if there are thigns we havent given to him. he WILL show you waht HE isnt LORD of in your life. and HE must be lord of EVERY FACET of your life. other wise...he isnt LORD. and you are tryign to have two masters. Jesus said FEW will find it. its a HARD palce to get to becasue we love our flesh. we dotn want to humble ourselves...we want JEsus AND. JEsus plus. DO YOU WANT JESUS ONLY? Thats what we must ask ourselves daily.

Is there anythig nwe love more then Jesus? If there is it needs to die. Crucify it, give it to the lord, adn repent. THAT is a part of SELF an no SELF, no flesh, no curruption will enter heaven. NONE. SUBMIT TO JESUS IN EVEY FACET.

That is what JESUS IN ME IS. NOT I, but CHRIST. And CHRIST doesnt sin. So IF you do sin, you know that wasnt Jesus, it was SELF and it needs to die. that is what JOHN is talking about in 1 John. We are working to die. BEcasue of JESUS in us, its posible. OUR LIVES must be hated, our desire must be forfited. IF you stumble and sin, JESUS is our advocate. And then THAT part of you is crucified in Christ. and it sHOULD no longer live. its dead. HE will put us to death is we submit, and HE is in us. FULLY.

 

[NiceneChristian]

Here is a text from a monk of the 14th century, he speaks here about delusion and signs of the Holy Spirit. Its a difficult writing but it will teach you many deep things of God, and how to discern if you have the Holy Spirit or not.

St Gregory of Sinai
Gregory of Sinai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the Signs of Grace and Delusion,
Written for the Confessor Longinos: Ten Texts

1. "As the great teacher St John Chrysostom states, we should be in a position to say that we need no help from the Scriptures, no assistance from other people, but are instructed by God; for 'all will be taught by God' (Isa. 54:13;John 6:45), in such a way that we learn from Him and through Him what we ought to know. And this applies not only to those of us who are monks but to each and every one of the faithful: we are all of us called to carry the law of the Spirit written on the tablets of our hearts (cf. 2 Cor. 3:3), and to attain like the Cherubim the supreme privilege of conversing through pure prayer in the heart directly with Jesus. But because we are infants at the time of our renewal through baptism we do not understand the grace and the new life conferred upon us. Unaware of the surpassing grandeur of the honor and glory in which we share, we fail to realize that we ought to grow in soul and spirit through the keeping of the commandments and so perceive noetically what we have received. On account of this most of us fall through indifference and servitude to the passions into a state of benighted obduracy. We do not know whether God exists, or who we are, or what we have become, although through baptism we have been made sons of God, sons of light, and children and members of Christ. If we are baptized when grown up, we feel that we have been baptized only in water and not by the Spirit. And even though we have been renewed in the Spirit, we
believe only in a formal, lifeless and ineffectual sense, and we say we are full of doubts. Hence because we are in fact non-spiritual we live and behave in a non-spiritual manner. Should we repent, we understand and practicethe commandments only in a bodily way and not spiritually. And if after many labors a revelation of grace is in God's compassion granted to us, we take it for a delusion. Or if we hear from others how grace acts, we are persuaded by our envy to regard that also as a delusion. Thus we remain corpses until death, failing to live in Christ and to be inspired by Him. According to Scripture, even that which we possess will be taken away from us at the time of our death or our judgment because of our lack of faith and our despair (cf. Matt. 25:29). We do not understand that the children must be like the father, that is to say, we are to be made gods by God and spiritual by the Holy Spirit; for 'that which is born of the Spirit is spirit' (John 3:6). But we are unregenerate, even though we have become members of the faith and heavenly, and so the Spirit of God does not dwell within us (cf. Gen. 6:3). Because of this the Lord has handed us over to strange afflictions and captivity, and slaughter flourishes, perhaps because He wishes to correct evil, or cut it off, or heal it by more powerful remedies.

2. With the help of God, then, who inspires those who declare good tidings (cf. Ps. 68:11. LXX), we must first examine how one finds Christ or, rather, how one is found by Him, since we already possess and have received Him through baptism in the Spirit: as St Paul says, 'Do you not realize that Jesus Christ dwells within you?' (2 Cor. 13:5). Then we must ask how to advance or, simply, how to retain what we have discovered. The best and shortest course is for us to give a brief summary of the whole spiritual journey from start to finish, long though it is. Many, indeed, have been so exhausted by their efforts to discover what they were looking for that, on finding the starting-point, they have remained content with this, and have not tried to advance farther. Encountering obstacles and turning aside unawares from the true path, they think that they are on the right track when actually they are veering profitlessly off course. Others, on reaching the halfway point of illumination, have then grown slack, wilting before reaching the end; or they have reverted through their slipshod way of life, and have become beginners again. Yet others, on the point of attaining perfection, have grown inattentive and self-conceited, relapsing to the state of those
in the middle way or even of beginners. Beginners, those in the middle way and the perfect have each their
distinctive characteristic: for the first it is activity, for the second illumination, for the third purification and
resurrection of the soul.

On How to Discover
The Energy of the Holy Spirit

3. The energy of the Holy Spirit, which we have already mystically received in baptism, is realized in two ways. First - to generalize - this gift is revealed, as St Mark tells us, through arduous and protracted practice of the commandments: to the degree to which we effectively practice the commandments its radiance is increasingly manifested in us. Secondly, it is manifested to those under spiritual guidance through the continuous invocation of the Lord Jesus, repeated with conscious awareness, that is, through mindfulness of God. In the first way, it is revealed more slowly, in the second more rapidly, if one diligently and persistently learns how to dig the ground and locate the gold. Thus if we want to realize and know the truth and not to be led astray, let us seek to possess only the heart-engrafted energy in a way that is totally without shape or form, not trying to contemplate in our imagination what we take to be the figure or similitude of things holy or to see any colors or lights. For in the nature of things the spirit of delusion deceives the intellect through such spurious fantasies, especially at the early stages, in those who
are still inexperienced. On the contrary, let our aim be to make the energy of prayer alone active in our hearts, for it brings warmth and joy to the intellect, and sets the heart alight with an ineffable love for God and man. It is on account of this that humility and contrition flow richly from prayer. For prayer in beginners is the unceasing noetic activity of the Holy Spirit. To start with it rises like a fire of joy from the heart; in the end it is like light made fragrant by divine energy.

4. There are several signs that the energy of the Holy Spirit is beginning to be active in those who genuinely aspire for this to happen and are not just putting God to the test - for, according to the Wisdom of Solomon, 'It is found by those who do not put it to the test, and manifests itself to those who do not distrust it' (cf. Wisd. 1:2). In some it appears as awe arising in the heart, in others as a tremulous sense of jubilation, in others as joy, in others as joy mingled with awe, or as tremulousness mingled with joy, and sometimes it manifests itself as tears and awe. For the soul is joyous at God's visitation and mercy, but at the same time is in awe and trepidation at His presence because it is guilty of so many sins. Again, in some the soul at the outset experiences an unutterable sense of contrition and an indescribable pain, like the woman in Scripture who labors to give birth (cf.Rev. 12:2). For the living and active Logos - that is to say, Jesus - penetrates, as the apostle says, to the point at which soul separates from body, joints from marrow (cf. Heb. 4:12), so as to expel by force every trace of passion from both soul and body. In others it is manifest as an unconquerable love and peace, shown towards all, or as a joyousness that the fathers have often called exultation - a spiritual force and an impulsion of the living heart that is also described as a vibration and sighing of the Spirit who makes wordless intercession for us to God (cf. Rom. 8:26). Isaiah has also called this the 'waves' of God's righteousness (cf. Isa. 48:18), while the great Ephrem calls it
'spurring'. The Lord Himself describes it as 'a spring of water welling up for eternal life' (John 4:14) - He refers to the Spirit as water - a source that leaps up in the heart and erupts through the ebullience of its power.

5. You should know that there are two kinds of exultation or joyousness: the calm variety (called a vibration or sighing or intercession of the Spirit), and the great exultation of the heart - a leap, bound or jump, the soaring flight of the living heart towards the sphere of the divine. For when the soul has been raised on the wings of divine love by the Holy Spirit and has been freed from the bonds of the passions, it strives to fly to that higher realm even before death, seeking to separate itself from its burden. This is also known as a stirring of the spirit - that is to say, an eruption or impulsion - as in the text, 'Jesus was stirred in spirit and, deeply moved. He said, "Where have you laid him?"' (cf. John 11:34). David the Psalmist indicates the difference between the greater and the lesser exultation when he declares that the mountains leap like rams and the little hills like lambs (cf. Ps. 114 : 6). He is referring of course to those who are perfect and to beginners, for physical mountains and hills, lacking animal life, do not actually leap about.

6. Divine awe has nothing to do with trepidation - by which I mean, not the tremulousness induced by joy, but the trepidation induced by wrath or chastisement or the feeling of desertion by God. On the contrary, divine awe is accompanied by a tremulous sense of jubilation arising from the prayer of fire that we offer when filled with awe. This awe is not the fear provoked by wrath or punishment, but it is inspired by wisdom, and is also deserted as 'the beginning of wisdom' (Ps. 111:10). Awe may be divided into three kinds, even though the fathers speak only of two: the awe of beginners, that of the perfect, and that provoked by wrath, which should properly be called trepidation, agitation or contrition.

7. There are several kinds of trembling. That of wrath is one, that of joy is another, and that of the soul's incensive power, when the heart's blood is over-heated, is another, that of old age is another, that of sin or delusion is another, and that of the curse which was laid on the human race because of Cain is another (cf. Gen. 4:11-15). In the early stages of spiritual warfare, however, it sometimes but not always happens that the trembling induced by joy and that induced by sin contend with one another. The first is the tremulous sense of jubilation, when grace refreshes the soul with great joyfulness accompanied by tears; the second is characterized by a disordered fervor, stupor and obduracy that consume the soul, inflame the sexual organs, and impel one to assent through the imagination to erotic physical obscenities.

On the Different Kinds of Energy

8. In every beginner two forms of energy are at work, each affecting the heart in a distinct way. The first comes from grace, the second from delusion. St Mark the Ascetic corroborates this when he says that there is a spiritual energy and a satanic energy, and that the beginner cannot distinguish between them. These energies in their turn generate three kinds of fervor, the first prompted by grace, the second by delusion or sin, and the third by an excess of blood. This last relates to what St Thalassios the Libyan calls the body's temperament, the balance and concord of which can be achieved by appropriate self-control.

On Divine Energy

9. The energy of grace is the power of spiritual fire that fills the heart with joy and gladness, stabilizes, warms and purifies the soul, temporarily stills our provocative thoughts, and for a time suspends the body's impulsions. The signs and fruits that testify to its authenticity are tears, contrition, humility, self-control, silence, patience, selfeffacement and similar qualities, all of which constitute undeniable evidence of its presence.

On Delusion

10. The energy of delusion is the passion for sin, inflaming the soul with thoughts of sensual pleasure and
arousing phrenetic desire in the body for intercourse with other bodies. According to St Diadochos it is entirely amorphous and disordered, inducing a mindless joy, presumption and confusion, accompanied by a mood of illdefined sterile levity, and fomenting above all the soul's appetitive power with its sensuality. It nourishes itself on pleasure, aided and abetted by the insatiable belly; for through the belly it not only impregnates and enkindles our whole bodily temperament but also acts upon and inflames the soul, drawing it to itself so that little by little the disposition to self-indulgence expels all grace from the person thus possessed."

 

[AnandaHya]

Hi DF. See you're back and blazing.

I understand the need for cruxify the flesh and diggin' deep within you and tearing down all strongholds that war against the knowledge of God.

It is a process only God can really do and it takes time and is different for each person.

Before we build we should make sure we reach the rock of Christ. that we have all the filth washed away. that we have repented of all God has wanted us to repent and made amends and healed whatever breaches and things we are able to heal and help and bandage.

There will be a point in all believers lives where you just bleed and cry and allow God to work and cleanse you in His blood. Allow Him to show you your sins but with the blanket and the comfort of His love and that you do not suffer alone. You will stand in His refining fire until all the dross is washed away and you truly KNOW with every cell in your body that you are NOTHING without God, worthless without His love, useless without His guidance, Lost without His light.

you know that if you ever turn again from Him you will be forever lost, a wandering soul destined for Hell. That there will be no more hope.

You know that nothing can separate you from the love of God and your faith is strong enough that when God calls forth and says stand. You are able through His strength.

Yes we should pray everyone reaches that point in their life that they have true repentance and submission to the will of God. When they can say, God kept me through the fire and the tribulations of this life and I will keep my faith in Him whether I feel His presence near or whether I must walk and do His will from afar, For I will trust that the Holy Spirit lives within me and guides me and keeps me.

I want to talk about walking with Christ, building His sanctuary or temple within us. Learning what virtue really means, gaining wisdom from above and what True love is. How brotherly kindness is not just about actions but even thoughts of another, giving others the benefit of doubt even though some will call you naive and blind and undiscerning seeing in a person the potential for who they can become if they only turned from their sin and their abuse of themselves and the world and towards God and His love.

Being able to look at someone homeless and rejected and seeing the small child that God made and loves and the strong loving productive person God intended them to be. Learning somehow to help them wash themselves clean, tear down the strongholds that enslave and bind them and place them in God's loving hands to mend, heal and teach what True love really means through prayer and basic comforts such as food, clothing, time spent listening to their story. Learning how to reach pass the despair, the hurt, the pain, the anger, the callous, the addictions and making their souls hear the words of Truth: "God loves you and He wants you to come home."

I've been praying about what to do. I feel kind of listless. I sit and I think and I pray and I talk to you guys and do some things around the house and with the kids but I always feel like I should be doing MORE, but I always wonder WHAT?

My mind gets a bombardment of things I COULD be doing, things I SHOULD be doing, but I wait and see and ask "God what do YOU want me to do? I don't know, I can't decide. there are too many options and all sound good. I could go visit the elderly at the nursing home. I could email or call my friends and find out about how they are doing and listen to any who need an ear willing to take the time to remind them of God's love. I could learn how to cook, paint, sew a dress, garden, ride my bike, practice running, clean the house, volunteer to build a house, write a book......the List goes on Lord and there is not enough time in the day to do it all, So what should I do?"

Sometimes Satan will try and come by while I'm praying and condemn me and tell me what I could have done and didn't do, what I should have done and make me feel guilty for what I did instead.

But I have found each night if I pray and lay it in God's hands and ask Him to help me decide and give me strength to DO HIS will the next day. I wake up in the morning and feel refreshed and try again.

I don't know a lot of things, but I learn it is best to take it day by day. We can make long range plans but we must always add the clause "If God wills it I will do this in the future" and be willing to give up any plans if God shows us it is NOT His will for us and our lives.

ok I'm done ranting for now. lol

ttyl

oh scripture verses I was thinking about in the beginning after reading your post:

Luke 6:47-49
New King James Version (NKJV)
47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.[a] 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”

 

[AnandaHya]

In the early stages of spiritual warfare, however, it sometimes but not always happens that the trembling induced by joy and that induced by sin contend with one another. The first is the tremulous sense of jubilation, when grace refreshes the soul with great joyfulness accompanied by tears; the second is characterized by a disordered fervor, stupor and obduracy that consume the soul, inflame the sexual organs, and impel one to assent through the imagination to erotic physical obscenities.

On the Different Kinds of Energy

8. In every beginner two forms of energy are at work, each affecting the heart in a distinct way. The first comes from grace, the second from delusion. St Mark the Ascetic corroborates this when he says that there is a spiritual energy and a satanic energy, and that the beginner cannot distinguish between them. These energies in their turn generate three kinds of fervor, the first prompted by grace, the second by delusion or sin, and the third by an excess of blood. This last relates to what St Thalassios the Libyan calls the body's temperament, the balance and concord of which can be achieved by appropriate self-control.

On Divine Energy

9. The energy of grace is the power of spiritual fire that fills the heart with joy and gladness, stabilizes, warms and purifies the soul, temporarily stills our provocative thoughts, and for a time suspends the body's impulsions. The signs and fruits that testify to its authenticity are tears, contrition, humility, self-control, silence, patience, selfeffacement and similar qualities, all of which constitute undeniable evidence of its presence.

On Delusion

10. The energy of delusion is the passion for sin, inflaming the soul with thoughts of sensual pleasure and
arousing phrenetic desire in the body for intercourse with other bodies. According to St Diadochos it is entirely amorphous and disordered, inducing a mindless joy, presumption and confusion, accompanied by a mood of illdefined sterile levity, and fomenting above all the soul's appetitive power with its sensuality. It nourishes itself on pleasure, aided and abetted by the insatiable belly; for through the belly it not only impregnates and enkindles our whole bodily temperament but also acts upon and inflames the soul, drawing it to itself so that little by little the disposition to self-indulgence expels all grace from the person thus possessed."[/SIZE][/FONT]

thank you that was an interesting read. these words reminds me of these Bible verses about the two types of wisdom: from above and from below.

James 3

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.