but whoever speaks against the Spirit, the Holy One, will not be forgiven

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May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#1
  1. Genesis 1:26
    God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.
    Genesis 1:25-27 (in Context) Genesis 1 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Genesis 3:22
    And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us [the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit], to know [how to distinguish between] good and evil and blessing and calamity; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever--
    Genesis 3:21-23 (in Context) Genesis 3 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Exodus 30:31
    And say to the Israelites, This is a holy anointing oil [symbol of the Holy Spirit], sacred to Me alone throughout your generations.
    Exodus 30:30-32 (in Context) Exodus 30 (Whole Chapter)


  1. Psalm 51:11
    Cast me not away from Your presence and take not Your Holy Spirit from me.
    Psalm 51:10-12 (in Context) Psalm 51 (Whole Chapter)


  1. Daniel 5:14
    I have heard of you, that the Spirit of the holy God [or gods] is in you and that light and understanding and superior wisdom are found in you.
    Daniel 5:13-15 (in Context) Daniel 5 (Whole Chapter)



  1. Matthew 1:18
    Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place under these circumstances: When His mother Mary had been promised in marriage to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be pregnant [through the power] of the Holy Spirit.
    Matthew 1:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Matthew 1:20
    But as he was thinking this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary [as] your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of (from, out of) the Holy Spirit.
    Matthew 1:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Matthew 3:11
    I indeed baptize you in (with) water because of repentance [that is, because of your changing your minds for the better, heartily amending your ways, with abhorrence of your past sins]. But He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy or fit to take off or carry; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
    Matthew 3:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
  4. Matthew 4:1
    THEN JESUS was led (guided) by the [Holy] Spirit into the wilderness (desert) to be tempted (tested and tried) by the devil.
    Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)


  1. Matthew 12:32
    And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Spirit, the Holy One, will not be forgiven, either in this world and age or in the world and age to come.
    Matthew 12:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)


To keep denying the Holy Spirit saying his powers are dead I would be careful of.







 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
  1. Matthew 12:32
    And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Spirit, the Holy One, will not be forgiven, either in this world and age or in the world and age to come.
    Matthew 12:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)

To keep denying the Holy Spirit saying his powers are dead I would be careful of.

WHO SAYS THAT LINDA?
NON CHARISMATICS?

you never respond to your provocative posts, but since you have brought up the one sin that will not be forgiven, would please show us from Scripture what that is?

I'M REALLY SICK OF YOUR BACKHANDED SLURS.

let's see some Bible work to back up your THREATS.

WHAT IS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
WHO SAYS THAT LINDA?
NON CHARISMATICS?

you never respond to your provocative posts, but since you have brought up the one sin that will not be forgiven, would please show us from Scripture what that is?

I'M REALLY SICK OF YOUR BACKHANDED SLURS.

let's see some Bible work to back up your THREATS.

WHAT IS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN?

LINDA?
ANYONE?
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
#4
Mark 3:30 clearly indicates that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was committed when the Pharisees, in their hard-heartedness, attributed Jesus' miracles to the power of demons.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#5
Mark 3:30 clearly indicates that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was committed when the Pharisees, in their hard-heartedness, attributed Jesus' miracles to the power of demons.
thanks Slep...

specifically

Ba‘al Zəbûb is variously understood to mean "lord of flies", or "lord of the (heavenly) dwelling". Originally the name of a Philistine god, Beelzebub is also identified in the New Testament as Satan, the "prince of the demons".



The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
  1. He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
  2. He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
  3. He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
Who Was Jesus?

now what i am sick of is the threat of the unpardonable sin (recklessly used at will) by CHARISMATICS AND PENTECOSTALS who say anyone not from that denominational leaning or specifically cessationists commit this sin..

its so ironic they never consider themsleves as these:

Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Question:

What do you think of the Azusa Street revival with William J. Seymour?

Answer:

The events at the Azusa Street revival in 1906 is frequently cited as the beginning of the Pentecostal movement. Numerous charismatic denominations refer to this revival as the beginning of their particular beliefs. Four denominations which were founded in the late 1890's: the Church of God in Christ, the Pentecostal Holiness Church, the United Holiness Church, and the Church of God, took on Pentecostal beliefs as a result of what happened on Azusa Street. From these groups came further divisions, the largest being the Assemblies of God, which divided from the Church of God in Christ in 1914. For a good history of these churches, see Ethan Longhenry's article, "Pentecostalism / Charismatic Movements"

The roots of Azusa Street were planted in a Houston, Texas, Bible school taught by Charles Fox Parham. William Seymour was a student of Charles Parham in 1903 and was convinced of the need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, such baptism being evident by the ability to speak in tongues. Seymour was invited to work with a small holiness group in Los Angeles, California. On the way, he stopped in Denver, Colorado, and visited Alma White's Pillar of Fire movement. Alma White was not impressed with Seymour. She later said, "I had met all kinds of religious fakers and tramps, but I felt he excelled them all." Upon arriving in Los Angeles, William Seymour preached only one sermon at the church who had invited him. The group then rejected him. Seymour continued his meeting though, preaching about Holy Spirit baptism in a warehouse on Azusa Street.

The primary difficulty in commenting about what happened is in locating witnesses whom one feels are reliable. One would expect those who accept the events as real to be biased in favor of what happened. Those who reject the events would be biased against them. There is an additional problem of terminology. For example, we spoke in past articles that the Bible defines speaking in tongues as speaking in another language (see "What is an unknown tongue?"); yet, Pentecostal writers will include speaking in no language (gibberish) as tongue speaking by claiming that it is a heavenly language. Actions which would be reject by many are glossed over in Pentecostal writings because they are seen as normal events. Yet writers from non-Pentecostal denominations will focus on these same actions.
With all that in mind, there is a book titled From Holy Laughter to Holy Fire by Michael L. Brown which quotes five respected Bible scholars from that era who witness the events that occurred on Azusa street. Mr. Brown quoted them to say they were wrong, but these men were contemporaries of the events and Mr. Brown, an Assemblies of God minister, is not. Since his denomination evolved from the events of Azusa Street, he also has strong motivation to put its origins in the best light that he can. I do appreciate the fact that he was willing to quote his detractors.

G. Campbell Morgan described the activities on Azusa Street as "the last vomit of Satan."

R. A. Torrey declared that this movement was "emphatically not of God, and founded by a Sodomite." H. A. Ironside said in 1912 that the movement was "disgusting ... delusions and insanities ... pandemonium's were exhibitions worthy of a madhouse or a collection of howling dervishes," causing a "heavy toll of lunacy and infidelity." W. B. Godbey saw the movement as a result of spiritualism and that the participants were "Satan's preachers, jugglers, necromancers, enchanters, magicians, and all sorts of mendicants." Clarence Larkin said, "But the conduct of those possessed, in which they fall to the ground and disgraceful scenes, is more a characteristic of demon possession, than a work of the Holy Spirit. From what has been said we see that we are living in 'Perilous Times,' and that all about us are 'Seducing Spirits,' and that they will become more active as the Dispensation draws to its close, and that we must exert the greatest care lest we be led astray." It is clear that these biblical scholars were not pleased with the events at Azusa Street.

Seymour's teacher, Charles Parham, visited the revival in October of 1906. David McCloud, in his book The Strange History of Pentecostalism said of this visit that "even he was shocked by the confusion of the services. He was dismayed by the 'awful fits and spasms' of the 'holy rollers and hypnotists.' He described the Azusa 'tongues' as 'chattering, jabbering and sputtering, speaking no language at all' (Synan, p. 102). The Azusa Street meetings were so wild that Parham condemned them with the term 'sensational Holy Rollers.' He testified that the Azusa Street meetings were largely characterized by manifestations of the flesh, spiritualistic controls, and the practice of hypnotism (Sarah Parham, The Life of Charles F. Parham, Joplin, MO: Tri-State Printing, 1930, p. 163). According to Parham, two-thirds of the people professing Pentecostalism in his day 'are either hypnotized or spook driven' (Parham, Life of Charles F. Parham, p. 164). In his writings about Azusa Street, Parham described men and women falling on one another in a morally compromising manner." It should be noted that the following year, 1907, Parham was arrested and charged with sodomy in Texas; so, he is not necessary a highly credible witness.

The revival on Azusa Street lasted seven years, during which time thousands of missionaries went forth to spread Pentecostalism. Many believed that with their gift of tongues they could teach in foreign fields. It wasn't long before they realized that they were unable to speak in other languages and so the movement changed to state that the Holy Spirit required interpreters for the tongue speakers. This continues to this day. I know of no first-hand accounts of people speaking in languages they had not learned. Yet, most in the Pentecostal movement will claim to speak in a heavenly language (though to everyone listening it sounds as gibberish).

The events at Azusa Street match none of the events in the Bible.

The conduct of the participants, even when saying the "nay-sayers" are stretching the truth, appear to be completely opposite to the conduct required of Christians in the New Testament. "Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless" (II Peter 3:11-14).

In addition, Jesus told us, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' " (Matthew 7:15-23).

Since those who speak glowingly of the events of Azusa Street teach doctrines contrary to those found in the New Testament, such as the continuance of miraculous gifts or that Jesus is the only person of God, I must conclude that the events at Azusa Street were deceptions.

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thessalonians 2:9-12).
 
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damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#6
  1. He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
  2. He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
  3. He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104
Zone are you saying tis about JESUS????????????????????????????????????
 
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#7
  1. Genesis 1:26
    God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.
    Genesis 1:25-27 (in Context) Genesis 1 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Genesis 3:22
    And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us [the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit], to know [how to distinguish between] good and evil and blessing and calamity; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever--
    Genesis 3:21-23 (in Context) Genesis 3 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Exodus 30:31
    And say to the Israelites, This is a holy anointing oil [symbol of the Holy Spirit], sacred to Me alone throughout your generations.
    Exodus 30:30-32 (in Context) Exodus 30 (Whole Chapter)


  1. Psalm 51:11
    Cast me not away from Your presence and take not Your Holy Spirit from me.
    Psalm 51:10-12 (in Context) Psalm 51 (Whole Chapter)


  1. Daniel 5:14
    I have heard of you, that the Spirit of the holy God [or gods] is in you and that light and understanding and superior wisdom are found in you.
    Daniel 5:13-15 (in Context) Daniel 5 (Whole Chapter)



  1. Matthew 1:18
    Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place under these circumstances: When His mother Mary had been promised in marriage to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be pregnant [through the power] of the Holy Spirit.
    Matthew 1:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Matthew 1:20
    But as he was thinking this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary [as] your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of (from, out of) the Holy Spirit.
    Matthew 1:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Matthew 3:11
    I indeed baptize you in (with) water because of repentance [that is, because of your changing your minds for the better, heartily amending your ways, with abhorrence of your past sins]. But He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy or fit to take off or carry; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
    Matthew 3:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
  4. Matthew 4:1
    THEN JESUS was led (guided) by the [Holy] Spirit into the wilderness (desert) to be tempted (tested and tried) by the devil.
    Matthew 4:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)


  1. Matthew 12:32
    And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Spirit, the Holy One, will not be forgiven, either in this world and age or in the world and age to come.
    Matthew 12:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)


To keep denying the Holy Spirit saying his powers are dead I would be careful of.









  1. Proverbs 1:23
    If you will turn (repent) and give heed to my reproof, behold, I [ Wisdom] will pour out my spirit upon you, I will make my words known to you.
    Proverbs 1:22-24 (in Context) Proverbs 1 (Whole Chapter)

 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#8
Hebrews 4:6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I believe this is what Jesus meant by sinning 'against' the Spirit when one falls away from their faith as in the last days.
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
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#10
Cessationist are the in the most danger of committing the unforgiveable sin. It is sad, but true. I wouldn't hang around cessationist for too long. They will tell you you are pretending or at worst that you have a devil. They do not believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for today. It's shameful what they teach with no Biblical evidence. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of Lights. They think the Bible is the only perfect gift. That simply is not true. The Bible didn't say that the Scripture is the only perfect gift. It says "every good and perfect gift". Cessationist have added to the Bible in 1 Corinthians 13, renamed the gifts of the Spirit, and added a time to a prophecy that isn't fulfilled yet.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#11
Cessationist are the in the most danger of committing the unforgiveable sin. It is sad, but true. I wouldn't hang around cessationist for too long. They will tell you you are pretending or at worst that you have a devil. They do not believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for today. It's shameful what they teach with no Biblical evidence. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of Lights. They think the Bible is the only perfect gift. That simply is not true. The Bible didn't say that the Scripture is the only perfect gift. It says "every good and perfect gift". Cessationist have added to the Bible in 1 Corinthians 13, renamed the gifts of the Spirit, and added a time to a prophecy that isn't fulfilled yet.
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Actually what is passed off these days by charismatics as from the Holyspirt
If I dont speak out about it and against it...by default im committing a sin as if im speaking
against the Holyspirit, by my silence.

And if any of you charismatics understand what im saying....and just sit by watching this stuff
pass as if it was from the Holyspirit and continue to infiltrate the church...your silence is your approval,
and your approval would be as much as slandering and dishonoring God.
 
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Aug 12, 2010
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#12
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Actually what is passed off these days by charismatics as from the Holyspirt
If I dont speak out about it and against it...by default im committing a sin as if im speaking
against the Holyspirit, by my silence.

And if any of you charismatics understand what im saying....and just sit by watching this stuff
pass as if it was from the Holyspirit and continue to infiltrate the church...your silence is your approval,
and your approval would be as much as slandering and dishonoring God.
Right on Mikey.

We will not be intimidated by this ABSURD charge.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#13
Intimidated?....i laugh..because this is more akin to selfprophecying onto themselves.
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
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#14
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Actually what is passed off these days by charismatics as from the Holyspirt
If I dont speak out about it and against it...by default im committing a sin as if im speaking
against the Holyspirit, by my silence.

And if any of you charismatics understand what im saying....and just sit by watching this stuff
pass as if it was from the Holyspirit and continue to infiltrate the church...your silence is your approval,
and your approval would be as much as slandering and dishonoring God.
It's not a sin to be silent when you could be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. That's just obsurd.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#16
  1. He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
  2. He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
  3. He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104
Zone are you saying tis about JESUS????????????????????????????????????

SEE THAT PART IN RED YOU SKIPPED OVER THE FIRST TIME?


The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
  1. He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
  2. He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
  3. He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#17
Cessationist are the in the most danger of committing the unforgiveable sin. It is sad, but true. I wouldn't hang around cessationist for too long. They will tell you you are pretending or at worst that you have a devil. They do not believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for today. It's shameful what they teach with no Biblical evidence. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of Lights. They think the Bible is the only perfect gift. That simply is not true. The Bible didn't say that the Scripture is the only perfect gift. It says "every good and perfect gift". Cessationist have added to the Bible in 1 Corinthians 13, renamed the gifts of the Spirit, and added a time to a prophecy that isn't fulfilled yet.
keep it up jonathan.
you utter verbatim FALSE "prophesies" from someone you claim is god.
you've been given lots of light, but prefer your montanism.
enjoy it while you can is all i have left to say to you.

goodbye jonathan.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#18
It's not a sin to be silent when you could be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. That's just obsurd.
can you read?

THE UNPARDONABLE SIN:

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
  1. He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
  2. He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
  3. He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
Who Was Jesus?


AS FOR THE REST OF WHAT YOU CALL CHURCH:

Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Question:

What do you think of the Azusa Street revival with William J. Seymour?

Answer:

The events at the Azusa Street revival in 1906 is frequently cited as the beginning of the Pentecostal movement. Numerous charismatic denominations refer to this revival as the beginning of their particular beliefs. Four denominations which were founded in the late 1890's: the Church of God in Christ, the Pentecostal Holiness Church, the United Holiness Church, and the Church of God, took on Pentecostal beliefs as a result of what happened on Azusa Street. From these groups came further divisions, the largest being the Assemblies of God, which divided from the Church of God in Christ in 1914. For a good history of these churches, see Ethan Longhenry's article, "Pentecostalism / Charismatic Movements"

The roots of Azusa Street were planted in a Houston, Texas, Bible school taught by Charles Fox Parham. William Seymour was a student of Charles Parham in 1903 and was convinced of the need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, such baptism being evident by the ability to speak in tongues. Seymour was invited to work with a small holiness group in Los Angeles, California. On the way, he stopped in Denver, Colorado, and visited Alma White's Pillar of Fire movement. Alma White was not impressed with Seymour. She later said, "I had met all kinds of religious fakers and tramps, but I felt he excelled them all." Upon arriving in Los Angeles, William Seymour preached only one sermon at the church who had invited him. The group then rejected him. Seymour continued his meeting though, preaching about Holy Spirit baptism in a warehouse on Azusa Street.

The primary difficulty in commenting about what happened is in locating witnesses whom one feels are reliable. One would expect those who accept the events as real to be biased in favor of what happened. Those who reject the events would be biased against them. There is an additional problem of terminology. For example, we spoke in past articles that the Bible defines speaking in tongues as speaking in another language (see "What is an unknown tongue?"); yet, Pentecostal writers will include speaking in no language (gibberish) as tongue speaking by claiming that it is a heavenly language. Actions which would be reject by many are glossed over in Pentecostal writings because they are seen as normal events. Yet writers from non-Pentecostal denominations will focus on these same actions.
With all that in mind, there is a book titled From Holy Laughter to Holy Fire by Michael L. Brown which quotes five respected Bible scholars from that era who witness the events that occurred on Azusa street. Mr. Brown quoted them to say they were wrong, but these men were contemporaries of the events and Mr. Brown, an Assemblies of God minister, is not. Since his denomination evolved from the events of Azusa Street, he also has strong motivation to put its origins in the best light that he can. I do appreciate the fact that he was willing to quote his detractors.

G. Campbell Morgan described the activities on Azusa Street as "the last vomit of Satan."

R. A. Torrey declared that this movement was "emphatically not of God, and founded by a Sodomite." H. A. Ironside said in 1912 that the movement was "disgusting ... delusions and insanities ... pandemonium's were exhibitions worthy of a madhouse or a collection of howling dervishes," causing a "heavy toll of lunacy and infidelity." W. B. Godbey saw the movement as a result of spiritualism and that the participants were "Satan's preachers, jugglers, necromancers, enchanters, magicians, and all sorts of mendicants." Clarence Larkin said, "But the conduct of those possessed, in which they fall to the ground and disgraceful scenes, is more a characteristic of demon possession, than a work of the Holy Spirit. From what has been said we see that we are living in 'Perilous Times,' and that all about us are 'Seducing Spirits,' and that they will become more active as the Dispensation draws to its close, and that we must exert the greatest care lest we be led astray." It is clear that these biblical scholars were not pleased with the events at Azusa Street.

Seymour's teacher, Charles Parham, visited the revival in October of 1906. David McCloud, in his book The Strange History of Pentecostalism said of this visit that "even he was shocked by the confusion of the services. He was dismayed by the 'awful fits and spasms' of the 'holy rollers and hypnotists.' He described the Azusa 'tongues' as 'chattering, jabbering and sputtering, speaking no language at all' (Synan, p. 102). The Azusa Street meetings were so wild that Parham condemned them with the term 'sensational Holy Rollers.' He testified that the Azusa Street meetings were largely characterized by manifestations of the flesh, spiritualistic controls, and the practice of hypnotism (Sarah Parham, The Life of Charles F. Parham, Joplin, MO: Tri-State Printing, 1930, p. 163). According to Parham, two-thirds of the people professing Pentecostalism in his day 'are either hypnotized or spook driven' (Parham, Life of Charles F. Parham, p. 164). In his writings about Azusa Street, Parham described men and women falling on one another in a morally compromising manner." It should be noted that the following year, 1907, Parham was arrested and charged with sodomy in Texas; so, he is not necessary a highly credible witness.

The revival on Azusa Street lasted seven years, during which time thousands of missionaries went forth to spread Pentecostalism. Many believed that with their gift of tongues they could teach in foreign fields. It wasn't long before they realized that they were unable to speak in other languages and so the movement changed to state that the Holy Spirit required interpreters for the tongue speakers. This continues to this day. I know of no first-hand accounts of people speaking in languages they had not learned. Yet, most in the Pentecostal movement will claim to speak in a heavenly language (though to everyone listening it sounds as gibberish).

The events at Azusa Street match none of the events in the Bible.

The conduct of the participants, even when saying the "nay-sayers" are stretching the truth, appear to be completely opposite to the conduct required of Christians in the New Testament. "Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless" (II Peter 3:11-14).

In addition, Jesus told us, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' " (Matthew 7:15-23).

Since those who speak glowingly of the events of Azusa Street teach doctrines contrary to those found in the New Testament, such as the continuance of miraculous gifts or that Jesus is the only person of God, I must conclude that the events at Azusa Street were deceptions.

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thessalonians 2:9-12).
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
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#19
Zone what exactly are you saying about JESUS????
 
Feb 10, 2008
3,371
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#20
Zone what exactly are you saying about JESUS????
I'm sure zone will speak for himself, but it didn't seem like he was making a point about Jesus, but instead about Man's (false) opinions of who/what Jesus was.