The "Five-Fold Ministry"

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is today's "Five-Fold Ministry" legitimate?

  • yes

    Votes: 8 80.0%

  • no

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
zone

zone

Senior Member
#1
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#1
zone said:
is the following correct?

please document FROM SCRIPTURE where the church is said for 2000 years to have "hobbled about in self-imposed weakness because of Her failure to recognize God's provision for power." and that "the five ministry giftings will preceed the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit in Holiness and power that the Church of Jesus Christ has ever known. "

i pose this challenge to anyone...PLEASE DOCUMENT these claims from scripture.

~


The Five-Fold Ministry doctrine is derived from Ephesians 4:11 "And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some evangelists; and some,
pastors and teachers;"




Just as the "little cloud...like a man's hand" (I Kings 18:44) preceeded the flooding rain, the five ministry giftings will preceed the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit in Holiness and power that the Church of Jesus Christ has ever known.

For almost two thousand years the Church has hobbled about in self-imposed weakness because of Her failure to recognize God's provision for power.

The same preachers who warn us: "Never pray for patience" for "tribulation worketh patience" (Romans 5:3) admonish us to pray and fast for maturity and unity, when our Father's provision is already revealed in Ephesians 4:11-15. Perhaps their blindness to the truth is motivated by an improper understanding of the ministry gifts. Perhaps they feel that the recognition of these gifts would impose some sort of clerical heirarchy upon the Church. Quite the opposite is true. The function of the ministry gifts and their benefits are like salvation: our Heavenly Father doesn't force salvation on us, our acceptance of Christ as our Savior and all the ensuing benefits is voluntary. The same with the ministry gifts
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M

MaggieMye

Guest
#3
#3
There is NOTHING in scriputure that says there is ANY specific number of ANY of the listed offices of ministry in Eph 4.


They are ALL to be in place until Jesus returns.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#4
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#4
MaggieMye said:
There is NOTHING in scriputure that says there is ANY specific number of ANY of the listed offices of ministry in Eph 4.


They are ALL to be in place until Jesus returns.
Click to expand...
so Maggie do you believe the offices of prophet and apostle have been "in place" ever since Pentecost?
or that they are being "rediscovered" or "restored"?



the five ministry giftings will preceed the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit in Holiness and power that the Church of Jesus Christ has ever known.

For almost two thousand years the Church has hobbled about in self-imposed weakness because of Her failure to recognize God's provision for power.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#5
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#5
MaggieMye said:
There is NOTHING in scriputure that says there is ANY specific number of ANY of the listed offices of ministry in Eph 4.


They are ALL to be in place until Jesus returns.
Click to expand...
(Revelation 2:2) I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

(Revelation 21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Theres only twelve.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#6
#6
Zone: Yes, they have always been in place, but not necessarily recognized as such. They are the foundation of the Church and if they foundation had been removed, the church would have fallen.

SL: Revelation 2:2) I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: So you lump them all together without judging the fruit? Really?? Some are, some are not and are wannabe's ...but they want the TITLE without the call or responsibility.

(Revelation 21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Yeah, so? That does NOT say that they did not carry forth the COMMAND to go forth and multiply. that command is not just in reproducing humans, it is about multiplicity FOR the Kingom and for the stability of the church. There has always been and always will be, until Christ returns, people stepping into the offices that those who become old, vacate. Why do you think Paul mentored Timothy?

Theres only twelve. NOT
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#7
#7
MaggieMye: (Revelation 21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Yeah, so? [That does NOT say that they did not carry forth the COMMAND to go forth and multiply. that command is not just in reproducing humans, it is about multiplicity FOR the Kingom and for the stability of the church. There has always been and always will be, until Christ returns, people stepping into the offices that those who become old, vacate. Why do you think Paul mentored Timothy?]

Theres only twelve. NOT
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Well theres a new one. Im behind on my emergent church reading...God created the church and told us to be fruitful and multiply.
Them darn new Apostle/prophets are just cute..arnt they?



 
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Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#8
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#8
MaggieMye said:
Zone: Yes, they have always been in place, but not necessarily recognized as such. They are the foundation of the Church and if they foundation had been removed, the church would have fallen.

SL: Revelation 2:2) I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: So you lump them all together without judging the fruit? Really?? Some are, some are not and are wannabe's ...but they want the TITLE without the call or responsibility.

(Revelation 21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Yeah, so? That does NOT say that they did not carry forth the COMMAND to go forth and multiply. that command is not just in reproducing humans, it is about multiplicity FOR the Kingom and for the stability of the church. There has always been and always will be, until Christ returns, people stepping into the offices that those who become old, vacate. Why do you think Paul mentored Timothy?

Theres only twelve. NOT
Click to expand...
Who's your Apostle?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
MaggieMye said:
Zone: Yes, they have always been in place, but not necessarily recognized as such. They are the foundation of the Church and if they foundation had been removed, the church would have fallen.
Click to expand...


i asked you to DOCUMENT please, in Scripture where we are told the church would lose sight of the fact there were to be prophets and apostles for 2000 years (even though they continued to operate in power and authority), then suddenly would recognize them at the end of the age.

if it is true, it will be written. WHERE IS IT WRITTEN?

how many foundations does your house have Maggie?

when was it laid?
 
G

GaryMac

Banned
#10
Sep 9, 2011
455
0
0
#10
zone said:
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Truth is, If one has Gods Spirit in you as these did that you read of, you are all of those things. Man cant teach you to be one with God have His mind, His Spirit, His understanding. That only comes with Gods Spirit be in you as He was in Jesus, Christ in you. Teach that to your people as Jesus taught that to the people that you become one with the Father and then you might see a real result toward Christianity and people actually become like Him.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#11
#11
North Dakota has two apostles that I am aware of. Larry Boroud on the more state level and Jim Chosa on the larger regional level.


Now, go ahead and google them so you can find as much DIS and dirt as possible to support your lack of knowledge and your cessationism.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#12
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#12
GaryMac said:
Truth is, If one has Gods Spirit in you as these did that you read of, you are all of those things. Man cant teach you to be one with God have His mind, His Spirit, His understanding. That only comes with Gods Spirit be in you as He was in Jesus, Christ in you. Teach that to your people as Jesus taught that to the people that you become one with the Father and then you might see a real result toward Christianity and people actually become like Him.
Click to expand...
GodMac.

He thinks he's a littlke god.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#13
Aug 2, 2009
24,581
4,269
113
#13
I'm pretty sure I made my first five-fold ministry in kindergarten.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#14
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#14
MaggieMye said:
North Dakota has two apostles that I am aware of. Larry Boroud on the more state level and Jim Chosa on the larger regional level.


Now, go ahead and google them so you can find as much DIS and dirt as possible to support your lack of knowledge and your cessationism.
Click to expand...
And who is above them on the national level. Lets see who's at the top please.
 
G

GaryMac

Banned
#15
Sep 9, 2011
455
0
0
#15
Strangelove said:
GodMac.

He thinks he's a littlke god.
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Actually He in me and I in him are one. Jesus taught the same thing. John 17.Try reading it. Only because you cant recognize Him and be like Him doesnt mean others cant, it only means you cant. I gues it boils down to you gotta know Him first, HUH?
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#16
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#16
GaryMac said:
Actually He in me and I in him are one. Jesus taught the same thing. John 17.Try reading it. Only because you cant recognize Him and be like Him doesnt mean others cant, it only means you cant. I gues it boils down to you gotta know Him first, HUH?
Click to expand...
You cant be like Jesus. Your a sinner.
 
G

GaryMac

Banned
#17
Sep 9, 2011
455
0
0
#17
Strangelove said:
You cant be like Jesus. Your a sinner.
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Oh no, contrary, In Christ there is no sin at all, it is outside Christ that you are a sinner. 1 Joihn 3:5 He came to take away my sin. It really works. and in V 6 If one is a sinner then Christ cant be. and in V 9 It is impossible to be in sin and be in Christ.

Are you sugesting that Christ cant take away your sin? What god do you serve anyway? It sure isnt the one described in 1 John 3.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#19
#19
MaggieMye said:
North Dakota has two apostles that I am aware of. Larry Boroud on the more state level and Jim Chosa on the larger regional level.


Now, go ahead and google them so you can find as much DIS and dirt as possible to support your lack of knowledge and your cessationism.
Click to expand...
Revelation 21

13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.

So you're telling me we're going to see the name of apostle Larry and apostle Jim on the foundation next to Peter and such?

The lamb is clearly described as having 12 apostles. No more.

The 12 apostles were part of the foundation. Jesus is done laying foundation. He won't even accept Obama money in exchange for concrete to lay new apostolic foundation..



19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#20
#20
Also why do they call it the five FOLD ministry?

That has always highly annoyed me. It feels like we're discussing anointed laundry or something. Does the five fold ministry come with a well defined crease and free of static cling?

It sounds like such a Christian cliche title.
 
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