Heaven and Hell -

[Nicko1112]

My name is Nick and i'm from New Zealand and currently not convinced about God.

The main reason for this is the idea that the sinners are put in hell and the good are put in heaven.

The problem I find with this is, as humans, what we do is a direct consequence of what happens around us. Our choices are really decided by our past experiences and what we have been brought up to believe is wrong or right. This means ( in my opinion ) evidently we have no choice over how our lives turn out.

An example of this would be a child born into a family that have racist extremist views. It would be hard for him to deny the belief of his parents. When he grows up can we really blame him for being discriminative? Can God really have the right to send a man who could of been a perfectly find individual if he had been born into a different family? Or is it OK to send someone to hell just for being in an unfortunate situation.

I have an open mind and would love feedback on this.

 

[Strangelove]

Are there some people who grow up in unfortunate circumstances and yet shake off their conditioning to eventually lead a good life and dont abide in sin Nick?

 

[Nicko1112]

Yes there is, but those are people who have had the privilege to be able change there ways but I wasn't just talking about childhood. People throughout life are bombarded with negative messages that make them do what they do. I am sure a terrorist was never taught about what it is we think is right or the bibles teachings. He did what he did because that what he was told is right.

 

[Strangelove]

Are there some people who dont do evil things they are told to do?

 

[Peepers]

My name is Nick and i'm from New Zealand and currently not convinced about God.

The main reason for this is the idea that the sinners are put in hell and the good are put in heaven.

The problem I find with this is, as humans, what we do is a direct consequence of what happens around us. Our choices are really decided by our past experiences and what we have been brought up to believe is wrong or right. This means ( in my opinion ) evidently we have no choice over how our lives turn out.

An example of this would be a child born into a family that have racist extremist views. It would be hard for him to deny the belief of his parents. When he grows up can we really blame him for being discriminative? Can God really have the right to send a man who could of been a perfectly find individual if he had been born into a different family? Or is it OK to send someone to hell just for being in an unfortunate situation.

I have an open mind and would love feedback on this.

Nick,
First off, sinners are put into hell, but it's not because people are good that gets them into heaven. It is repentance, or turning from their sinful lifestyle, and trusting in Jesus that gets them there. The bible says that God has written His law on our hearts and that we can see Him in the world around us so that we have no reason to deny the truth. The idea that people are how they are raised to be is just so flawed. I've seen plenty of exceptions to that, seemingly good families with one child who grows up to be rebellious and vice versa. Does our upbringing affect us? Absolutely! Are we powerless to break free from it? No. Everyone will have to answer for their own actions.

 

[cronjecj]

I am sure a terrorist was never taught about what it is we think is right or the bibles teachings. He did what he did because that what he was told is right.

Hi Nick welcome to CC!

Everybody in the world knows right from wrong. I'm pretty sure someone trying to blow up a building knows that that it's very wrong but still he does it why? because they don't love truth. Why don't they love truth? Because they walk in darkness. Why are they walking in darkness? Because they don't want their deeds to be exposed.

 

[GaryMac]

Christ changes ones state of being, from being one way to being another way. Jesus said in Luke 17:21 the kingdom of God is withn you,

Heaven and hell is a state of being, it is a choice we all make. If one is living in a hell and has not been exposed to anything different and what good can be. How can he change from his hell to Gods heaven where good resides? Doing good deeds anyone can do, but from the heart is where rivers of living waters flow.

You can teach a dog to do tricks and reward him for it but a dog that will do it and not expect a reward does it because he wants to pleas his master. It is the master that we are talking about here, the master of hell or the master of heaven. The kingdom of God is withn you no matter how you view it good or bad.

 

[Israel]

My name is Nick and i'm from New Zealand and currently not convinced about God.

The main reason for this is the idea that the sinners are put in hell and the good are put in heaven.

The problem I find with this is, as humans, what we do is a direct consequence of what happens around us. Our choices are really decided by our past experiences and what we have been brought up to believe is wrong or right. This means ( in my opinion ) evidently we have no choice over how our lives turn out.

An example of this would be a child born into a family that have racist extremist views. It would be hard for him to deny the belief of his parents. When he grows up can we really blame him for being discriminative? Can God really have the right to send a man who could of been a perfectly find individual if he had been born into a different family? Or is it OK to send someone to hell just for being in an unfortunate situation.

I have an open mind and would love feedback on this.

The problem is that the TRUTH is not being taught in the world. It is not a laughing matter, how we make our Father out to be.

Think about what you said for a moment and use sound reasoning over trying to hold on to "tradition".

IF you CANNOT get to heaven by ANY amount of good works done by an individual, WHY then believe that ANY individual will go to "hell" because of any BAD WORKS?

 

[shroom2]

...IF you CANNOT get to heaven by ANY amount of good works done by an individual, WHY then believe that ANY individual will go to "hell" because of any BAD WORKS?

People will not go to hell for bad works. They will perish because they have not accepted the savior from sin, Jesus Christ.

 

[Israel]

People will not go to hell for bad works. They will perish because they have not accepted the savior from sin, Jesus Christ.

Is that not a work? Besides even the devils believe!

 

[shroom2]

Is that not a work? Besides even the devils believe!

It's a work of faith, I suppose. Nonetheless, we must confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead to be saved (Rom 10:9).

 

[Israel]

It's a work of faith, I suppose. Nonetheless, we must confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead to be saved (Rom 10:9).

Again, even the devils believe. What makes the "believing" person different?

 

[AnandaHya]

mmm .....GaryMac and Israel your views are unbiblical.

Nicko people make excuses to sin all the time. they want to justify why they do it and blame others, their cirumstances, etc. God demands people take responsibility for their actions and their lives and their choices.

He offers the tools and the wisdom to be children of God who do good works by being washed clean of their sins by the blood of Jesus Christ who died on the cross for the remission of sins. He shows us how to live godly lives through His Holy Spirit which He sends to those who seek after God through Jesus resurrection and ascension.

Christianity is not a set of rules and laws to be obeyed but a personal relationship with God through His Holy Spirit. If you wanted to have personal relationship with another human you would spend time with them. We do this through prayer. You would read the letters they wrote; which is why we read His Holy Bible. If you loved them then you would want them to be happy and want to be reunited with them after your long stay away.

for now we are but strangers in this world, doing the task GOd has asked us to do, but soon He will call us home. It is like a spouse who has to go on a long distance trip but will come home soon.

IF you were married and your spouse instead of waiting for you, started sleeping around with all these other people instead of remaining faithful. how would you feel?

Do you know the Bible says God is a jealous God?

He wants us to remain faithful and pure of heart.

Heaven and Hell are not states of being. they are actual places that really exist. Not everyone will get into Heaven.

you ask why not. I ask why should they?

if a man murdered your children, your whole family, would you invite him into your house so he might murder the rest you have taken in to protect them from him?

God is not just Love, He is also JUST and wise beyond words can convey.

 

[AnandaHya]

Again, even the devils believe. What makes the "believing" person different?

devils do not accept Him as LORD, but seek after their own lusts and vain imaginations.

 

[Israel]

mmm .....GaryMac and Israel your views are unbiblical.

Nicko people make excuses to sin all the time. they want to justify why they do it and blame others, their cirumstances, etc. God demands people take responsibility for their actions and their lives and their choices.

He offers the tools and the wisdom to be children of God who do good works by being washed clean of their sins by the blood of Jesus Christ who died on the cross for the remission of sins. He shows us how to live godly lives through His Holy Spirit which He sends to those who seek after God through Jesus resurrection and ascension.

Christianity is not a set of rules and laws to be obeyed but a personal relationship with God through His Holy Spirit. If you wanted to have personal relationship with another human you would spend time with them. We do this through prayer. You would read the letters they wrote; which is why we read His Holy Bible. If you loved them then you would want them to be happy and want to be reunited with them after your long stay away.

for now we are but strangers in this world, doing the task GOd has asked us to do, but soon He will call us home. It is like a spouse who has to go on a long distance trip but will come home soon.

IF you were married and your spouse instead of waiting for you, started sleeping around with all these other people instead of remaining faithful. how would you feel?

Do you know the Bible says God is a jealous God?

He wants us to remain faithful and pure of heart.

Heaven and Hell are not states of being. they are actual places that really exist. Not everyone will get into Heaven.

you ask why not. I ask why should they?

if a man murdered your children, your whole family, would you invite him into your house so he might murder the rest you have taken in to protect them from him?

God is not just Love, He is also JUST and wise beyond words can convey.

So to summarize, you believe that the bible teaches that you cannot do anything to receive eternal life, but plenty to receive eternal damnation? ?


Its not against the law not to follow a crowd, beloved.

 

[AnandaHya]

So to summarize, you believe that the bible teaches that you cannot do anything to receive eternal life, but plenty to receive eternal damnation? ?

Its not against the law not to follow a crowd, beloved.

false summary but excepted by one who twists even God's words to fit his own vain imaginings.

The Bible teaches a lot of things and reveals the way to eternal life.

MATTHEW 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[e] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[f] No one is good but One, that is, God.[g] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[h] and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.[j] What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

James 4:3-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and[a] adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

I don't follow the crowd. I follow Jesus and His holy words.

why do you seek to please men and give them false assurance of their lack of eternal punishment in Hell when they rebel against GOD and His commandments and have rejected Jesus?

 

[shroom2]

Again, even the devils believe. What makes the "believing" person different?

What does Romans 10:9 say?

"IF thou shalt.......[then] thou shalt be saved.

Why not believe what is written?

 

[yaright]

My name is Nick and i'm from New Zealand and currently not convinced about God.

The main reason for this is the idea that the sinners are put in hell and the good are put in heaven.

The problem I find with this is, as humans, what we do is a direct consequence of what happens around us. Our choices are really decided by our past experiences and what we have been brought up to believe is wrong or right. This means ( in my opinion ) evidently we have no choice over how our lives turn out.

An example of this would be a child born into a family that have racist extremist views. It would be hard for him to deny the belief of his parents. When he grows up can we really blame him for being discriminative? Can God really have the right to send a man who could of been a perfectly find individual if he had been born into a different family? Or is it OK to send someone to hell just for being in an unfortunate situation.

I have an open mind and would love feedback on this.

The evidence of both good and evil are continually before each of us in all of creation. We have no excuse, because it is in our very nature to choose one or the other.



"Can God really have the right to send a man who could of been a perfectly fine individual if he had been born into a different family? Or is it OK to send someone to hell just for being in an unfortunate situation?"

There is no such thing as a man being born into perfection. There is no such thing as a perfect person aside from Christ. A man who believes he has done good all his life, and does not follow Jesus even though the witness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been given to him; Will suffer the same consequences as man who has killed another man; and even though he has heard the witness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ; that man did not follow Jesus.

 

[bonzobob]

I suggest you read 'The Cross and The Switchblade'.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Nick, it seems that you do not like that someone is being sent to hell, and that this is unfair/injust.


My question is this. On what ontological basis?