The Bible is the Book of the Church.

[Scotth1960]

"The Bible is the book of the Church. We therefore read Holy Scripture not as isolated individuals, but as members of the Church. .... It is from the Church that Holy Scripture ultimately derives its authority, for it was the Church which originally decided which books form a part of Holy Scripture, and it is the Church alone which can interpret Holy Scripture with authority.
"This is the case being that from many sayings in the Bible which by themselves are far from clear, and the individual reader, however sincere, is in dangers if he trusts his own personal interpretations. ..."
Holy Scripture In The Orthodox Church "The Bible" compiled by Father Demetrios Serfes Boise Idaho USA August 20, 2000
www.serfes.org/orthodox/scriptureinthechurch.htm
In Erie PA USA October 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[CanadaNZ]

Scripture is for all to read, your statement reminds me of the Roman Catholic attempt to control the Bible and be the only voice of interpretation, which also sounds like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Both ended with man crumbling under the corruption of power. As they say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at both these groups, they twisted God's Word for their own gain. Take the Roman Catholics indulgences, or the Pharisees Sabbath rules, neither took these from the Bible, but obviously felt God hadn't done enough and thought they would just fill in the gaps.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scripture is for all to read, your statement reminds me of the Roman Catholic attempt to control the Bible and be the only voice of interpretation, which also sounds like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Both ended with man crumbling under the corruption of power. As they say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at both these groups, they twisted God's Word for their own gain. Take the Roman Catholics indulgences, or the Pharisees Sabbath rules, neither took these from the Bible, but obviously felt God hadn't done enough and thought they would just fill in the gaps.

The Protestants all follow the traditions of men. They follow the example of their man, Martin Luther, the originator of the doctrine of "by Scripture alone". When asked why he added the word "alone" to the text of Romans 3:28 in the German language, Luther said, amazingly! (unbelievably!): "It is so. And I will have it so. And my will is reason enough. It is so because I, Dr. Martin Luther, say it is so."
Look at the Protestants. They twist the Scriptures for their own gain. Some, quite literally:
See Kenneth Copeland, Oral Roberts, John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, etc.
Frederick K. Price, Creflo A. Dollar.
There is no one even remotely like Creflo A. Dollar in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
There is not anything from Roman Catholicism in what I said. Your illogic is: If it's not Protestant, it must be Roman Catholic, as there are only two actual possiblities: all Christians are either Bible believing Protestants,or they are Roman Catholics. There is no other third possibility! (Ignorance! Sheer ignorance of the facts on the part of the Protestant fundamentalist!).

 

[CanadaNZ]

The Protestants all follow the traditions of men. They follow the example of their man, Martin Luther, the originator of the doctrine of "by Scripture alone". When asked why he added the word "alone" to the text of Romans 3:28 in the German language, Luther said, amazingly! (unbelievably!): "It is so. And I will have it so. And my will is reason enough. It is so because I, Dr. Martin Luther, say it is so."
Look at the Protestants. They twist the Scriptures for their own gain. Some, quite literally:
See Kenneth Copeland, Oral Roberts, John Hagee, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, etc.
Frederick K. Price, Creflo A. Dollar.
There is no one even remotely like Creflo A. Dollar in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
There is not anything from Roman Catholicism in what I said. Your illogic is: If it's not Protestant, it must be Roman Catholic, as there are only two actual possiblities: all Christians are either Bible believing Protestants,or they are Roman Catholics. There is no other third possibility! (Ignorance! Sheer ignorance of the facts on the part of the Protestant fundamentalist!).

Wow thanks for calling me ignorant, if you read what I said I DID NOT say that what you said was a Roman Catholic statement, I SAID that this concept the church has the only power to interpret sounds like what the Roman Catholics did years and years ago. And then used that power to create more power and wealth for themselves, for example Indulgences. You want the truth, I attend a protestant church and have for my entire life, I have also attended a protestant bible college and this stuff you try and attack the protestants with is not even what they teach. Yes there are people like the ones you have mentioned, and there are people like the ones that did the Jesus Seminar, who don't even believe that Jesus did and said 20% of what the bible says. Stop attacking the protestants as a whole, most of whom do not believe is this crap. Its like someone killing all muslim people because of idiots like Bin Laden. You need to get your facts straight and stop attacking your brothers and sisters in christ.

 

[Scotth1960]

Wow thanks for calling me ignorant,
CanadaNZ. Sorry, friend! Kindly stop accusing me of calling you ignorant. You aren't telling the truth. You simply did not hear from me that I said you are ignorant. If you read what I said I DID NOT say that you are ignorant. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS God bless you. Amen. I am not attacking the Protestants. I am rejecting Protestantism. Why do you make this into a personal attack? Why do people accuse me of attacking the Protestants? Why do people, as Protestants, make things personal, and say false things about what those who dare to disagree with Luther, Calvin, and Protestantism, are doing. You need to get your facts straight and stop saying that I am attacking brothers and sisters in Christ. I am saying Protestantism is heresy; that's not an attack on Christians who happen to be Protestants.
St. Peter was (is) a Christian, and St. Paul "withstood him to the face" on the circumcision issue. For he was to be blamed. Protestantism is to be blamed for its unbiblical heresies and mistakes. God save us all; I had been a Protestant for many years, and it didn't keep me from sinning. There is no easy answer to the problem of sin. But false doctrines won't show the way to the Light of Christ.
God bless you in Christ Jesus.
if you read what I said I DID NOT say that what you said was a Roman Catholic statement, I SAID that this concept the church has the only power to interpret sounds like what the Roman Catholics did years and years ago. And then used that power to create more power and wealth for themselves, for example Indulgences. You want the truth, I attend a protestant church and have for my entire life, I have also attended a protestant bible college and this stuff you try and attack the protestants with is not even what they teach. Yes there are people like the ones you have mentioned, and there are people like the ones that did the Jesus Seminar, who don't even believe that Jesus did and said 20% of what the bible says. Stop attacking the protestants as a whole, most of whom do not believe is this crap. Its like someone killing all muslim people because of idiots like Bin Laden. You need to get your facts straight and stop attacking your brothers and sisters in christ.[

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=CanadaNZ;568803]Scripture is for all to read, your statement reminds me of the Roman Catholic attempt to control the Bible and be the only voice of interpretation, which also sounds like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Both ended with man crumbling under the corruption of power. As they say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at both these groups, they twisted God's Word for their own gain. Take the Roman Catholics indulgences, or the Pharisees Sabbath rules, neither took these from the Bible, but obviously felt God hadn't done enough and thought they would just fill in the gaps.[/quote]
Dear Friends: CanadaNZ, AnandaHya, Zone, Eternallygratefull, Pneumapsuchesoma, and NiceneChristian, Zossima, Cleante, and so on. Goodbye for now. For a while at least. I don't have much to say now. I need to do more and say less. I need more experience of sacraments in Church. Maybe I'll come back later, but I can't say when. God bless all of you. I've had enough for now for mentioning Calvinism and what not.
Just see the Confession of Dositheus. God bless you.
For more on Orthodox teaching, please go to your local Christian college library and see if they can get the following book for you in ILL (Interlibrary loan), if they don't have it in their possession.
HAUGH, RICHARD. (1975). PHOTIUS AND THE CAROLINGIANS: THE TRINITARIAN CONTROVERSY. BELMONT, MASS: NORDLAND PUBLISHING COMPANY.
GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU IN CHRIST JESUS; AMEN. In Erie PA USA OCTOBER 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[Grandpa]

Scripture is for all to read, your statement reminds me of the Roman Catholic attempt to control the Bible and be the only voice of interpretation, which also sounds like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Both ended with man crumbling under the corruption of power. As they say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at both these groups, they twisted God's Word for their own gain. Take the Roman Catholics indulgences, or the Pharisees Sabbath rules, neither took these from the Bible, but obviously felt God hadn't done enough and thought they would just fill in the gaps.

You've got it exactly right CanadaNZ. What is the agenda of a church that calls its popes and bishops infallible and demands to be the only voice of interpretation??

The biggest enemy of infallibility of men in a church is the bible itself. So of course that church doesn't like Protestantism. Or individual reading of the bible, unless of course you submit to someone else's interpretation of what it says.

Did you notice Scott did not address the Truth of your statements but instead went straight to attacking Protestantism?

There are a lot of traps for Christians to fall into. Pharisee-ism apparently is still one of them.

 

[Dude653]

Catholacism is apostacy

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You've got it exactly right CanadaNZ. What is the agenda of a church that calls its popes and bishops infallible and demands to be the only voice of interpretation??

The biggest enemy of infallibility of men in a church is the bible itself. So of course that church doesn't like Protestantism. Or individual reading of the bible, unless of course you submit to someone else's interpretation of what it says.

Did you notice Scott did not address the Truth of your statements but instead went straight to attacking Protestantism?

There are a lot of traps for Christians to fall into. Pharisee-ism apparently is still one of them.

Amen! No one wants to take responsibility for thier own actions or beliefs. It is easier to listen and put all the stuff on everyone else.

Satans biggest win is to get people to listen to the religious leaders of their day. In Christ time, No one but a pharisee or other jewish religious leader could properly interpret their word. What they said was said to come directly from God. and no one dared Go Against it.

It took a few hundred years. But after Judaism was prety much destroyed. Satan found another partaker in his lie. This time the roman Church. Who holds the same excuses, the same reasoning, and the same mistakes (other than doctrinal differences) as the pharisees did. And they both taught that getting to heaven was only available to those who obey a set of rules and regulations as established by the Jewish religeous leaders under the High Priest. Or in modern day theology, By the church under the Pope, or bishops (depending on which side of the roman Church you belong to. east or west)

Satan does want the normal person to read scripture. Because he knows a normal person can understand Gods word with Gods help, And his plan of religeous sacramental gospels will be destroyed.

 

[GaryMac]

"The Bible is the book of the Church. We therefore read Holy Scripture not as isolated individuals, but as members of the Church. .... It is from the Church that Holy Scripture ultimately derives its authority, for it was the Church which originally decided which books form a part of Holy Scripture, and it is the Church alone which can interpret Holy Scripture with authority.
"This is the case being that from many sayings in the Bible which by themselves are far from clear, and the individual reader, however sincere, is in dangers if he trusts his own personal interpretations. ..."
Holy Scripture In The Orthodox Church "The Bible" compiled by Father Demetrios Serfes Boise Idaho USA August 20, 2000
www.serfes.org/orthodox/scriptureinthechurch.htm
In Erie PA USA October 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

You cant interpret it with accurecy at all unless you have in you that what the ones who wrote it, Christ in you, Gods SPirit in you as it was in these. The church can only give you their opinions of it.

 

[NiceneChristian]

Amen! No one wants to take responsibility for thier own actions or beliefs. It is easier to listen and put all the stuff on everyone else.

Satans biggest win is to get people to listen to the religious leaders of their day. In Christ time, No one but a pharisee or other jewish religious leader could properly interpret their word. What they said was said to come directly from God. and no one dared Go Against it[/SIZE].

It took a few hundred years. But after Judaism was prety much destroyed. Satan found another partaker in his lie. This time the roman Church. Who holds the same excuses, the same reasoning, and the same mistakes (other than doctrinal differences) as the pharisees did. And they both taught that getting to heaven was only available to those who obey a set of rules and regulations as established by the Jewish religeous leaders under the High Priest. Or in modern day theology, By the church under the Pope, or bishops (depending on which side of the roman Church you belong to. east or west)

Satan does want the normal person to read scripture. Because he knows a normal person can understand Gods word with Gods help, And his plan of religeous sacramental gospels will be destroyed.

What you say in the red is un-true. Jesus said of the Pharisees, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat,
3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you--but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice." Matthew 23:2



So they did teach properly, but they did not do what they taught. They were just hypocrites. Your analogy of the Catholic Church doesn't quite fit with Matthew 23:2.
Besides, we are talking about Eastern Orthodoxy, not Roman Catholicism. We know that Rome is in heresy because of Papal Infallibility and other heresies.

 

[NiceneChristian]

You cant interpret it with accurecy at all unless you have in you that what the ones who wrote it, Christ in you, Gods SPirit in you as it was in these. The church can only give you their opinions of it.

How are you supposed to know that what you get out of the Scriptures is the same as what it really means? The thing about it is is that you are trying to say that you can interpret the Scriptures perfectly by yourself by the Holy Spirit, but if this is what you (and others I presume) believe, then what is the point of having teachers? The Apostles Paul said that Christ appointed qualified teachers to "rightly divide the word of truth", and Apostle James said, "Not many of you should be teachers" (James 3). So you are going against the Apostolic decree which tells us that we must have "pastors and teachers" to guide us into all the truth.
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

If you think you're competent enough to understand the Scriptures, wherefore have the Apostles given us teachers?

 

[Grandpa]

What you say in the red is un-true. Jesus said of the Pharisees, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat,
3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you--but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice." Matthew 23:2



So they did teach properly, but they did not do what they taught. They were just hypocrites. Your analogy of the Catholic Church doesn't quite fit with Matthew 23:2.
Besides, we are talking about Eastern Orthodoxy, not Roman Catholicism. We know that Rome is in heresy because of Papal Infallibility and other heresies.

Well not exactly. You're leaving out an important part.

Mark 7:5-9 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


You see the dangers of Pharisee-ism? Of placing your own traditions above the commandment of God?

 

[Grandpa]

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

If you think you're competent enough to understand the Scriptures, wherefore have the Apostles given us teachers?

Who has given us teachers? Perhaps read the whole chapter...?

 

[NiceneChristian]

Well not exactly. You're leaving out an important part.

Mark 7:5-9 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


You see the dangers of Pharisee-ism? Of placing your own traditions above the commandment of God?

Well what is the "commandment of God" that we Eastern Orthodox "reject"? And how do we follow the "doctrines and commandments of men"? Is it a commandment of men to have teachers which "rightly divine the word of truth"? That is all that we Eastern Orthodox have are teachers which do this very thing. It is up to our Holy One's (Saints) to teach us the hidden and secret things of God's'Wisdom (Psalm 51:6). For if it were all up to us, we would never have the "unity of the faith" that the Apostle Paul is speaking of in Ephesians 4 (I suggest you to read that chapter over a half dozen times).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you say in the red is un-true. Jesus said of the Pharisees, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat,
3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you--but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice." Matthew 23:2



So they did teach properly, but they did not do what they taught. They were just hypocrites. Your analogy of the Catholic Church doesn't quite fit with Matthew 23:2.

They taught the law. and all the tradition which came with it. They thought it was these works that saved them. That is why they rejected Christ. because he told them their works meant nothing when it comes to salvation.

I find it amazing you think the very people who sent Christ to his death taught properly. If they knew the word. and knew Gods plan, they would have recieved Christ with open arms.

Besides, we are talking about Eastern Orthodoxy, not Roman Catholicism. We know that Rome is in heresy because of Papal Infallibility and other heresies.

I see no difference between the Gospel of either Church. In this aspect they are the same

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well not exactly. You're leaving out an important part.

Mark 7:5-9 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


You see the dangers of Pharisee-ism? Of placing your own traditions above the commandment of God?

Amen. People think their religion makes them worthy of heaven. When no one will be worthy. Only by the death of Christ can we be declared innocent. But not because of anything we do.

 

[NiceneChristian]

Who has given us teachers? Perhaps read the whole chapter...?

Christ Himself, for he said that He would build his Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

 

[HeIsNowHere]

"The Bible is the book of the Church. We therefore read Holy Scripture not as isolated individuals, but as members of the Church. .... It is from the Church that Holy Scripture ultimately derives its authority, for it was the Church which originally decided which books form a part of Holy Scripture, and it is the Church alone which can interpret Holy Scripture with authority.
"This is the case being that from many sayings in the Bible which by themselves are far from clear, and the individual reader, however sincere, is in dangers if he trusts his own personal interpretations. ..."
Holy Scripture In The Orthodox Church "The Bible" compiled by Father Demetrios Serfes Boise Idaho USA August 20, 2000
www.serfes.org/orthodox/scriptureinthechurch.htm
In Erie PA USA October 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

This is a very untrue statement. The Books of the Bible were made to be read and easily understood by common people and were not written in a "high" form of the language. People passed the letters and writing of the new testament from house to house. Romanists have falsely claimed their leaders must provide the interpretations of the plain truths in the Bible. The books of the Bible were canon long before the Romanists formed. Martin Luther and the reformers pointed out all the glaring contradiction that the Roman Catholics have with Holy Scriptures and ANYONE who reads the books can clearly see the complete opposite of what the Bible books say. Anyone who states that people can not search the scriptures and judge accordingly is doing so for control purposes. It is true people can misinterpret God's expired Word (that is what the Bible is) and that is the goal of Satan from the beginning when he told Eve "Did God really say you would die?"

The Romon Catholic church has so many glaring examples of what they teach that contradict God's expired word of the Bible that anyone who listens to those teachings without examining the scriptures can be completely mislead. For example, every Christian is a priest (Hebrews) and this is necessary because God himself in the Holy Spririt resides INSIDE every true Christian. We are also told that because we are priests and have received Jesus Christ we have direct accesss to the throne of Grace where Jesus Christ the high priest receives us. But Romanists teach prayer via Mary and their own men who are "so-called priests"? Why would anyone pray or confess through someone else when the scripture is VERY CLEAR about what we do?

The reason is the control of people and taking away from the direct WORD OF GOD. I can go on and on and on. Listen to John McArthurs teachings of the false teaching of the Roman Catholic church. Friends if you are part of that cult leave immediately for a Bible believing, Bible teaching church. They distort, WHO GOD IS, WHAT HE WANTS FROM US, OUR PURPOSE IN LIFE, OUR STAN DING IN LIFE, and keeps people away from direct fellowship with Jesus Christ by putting another DIETY who was ever only a sinful human being MARY. The scripture is clear there is only 1 perfect man and that is Jesus Christ. Mary was born into sin. Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb but the HOLY SPIRIT created his code seperate from anything inherited just as Adam the first man was created by God, so was Jesus Christ physical being in Mary. But Mary was neither concieved without sin and she was not a perpetual virgin. The scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ had brothers and sisters and in Matthew it is clear that Joseph did not have relations with her "Unitl after Jesus was born". The Roman Catholic lies about these facts that are clear in the scripture. Roman catholics do not like to hear the truth but it is GOD's word they are disagreeing with.

And if one listens to those glaring contradictions it will keep you from Jesus Christ and possible from eternal life. I John 5:11-12 "And this is the testimony, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life and He who has not the Son of God does not have life."

 

[Scotth1960]

They taught the law. and all the tradition which came with it. They thought it was these works that saved them. That is why they rejected Christ. because he told them their works meant nothing when it comes to salvation.

I find it amazing you think the very people who sent Christ to his death taught properly. If they knew the word. and knew Gods plan, they would have recieved Christ with open arms.




I see no difference between the Gospel of either Church. In this aspect they are the same
You are blinded by prejudice (bigotry), sorry. God bless you! Rome adds "and the Son" to John 15:26. The Eastern Orthodox Church preaches John 15:26 unchanged and unaltered. They are not at all the same. No Orthodox Christian claims infallibility for himself; just for the Church. The papists wrongly teach the pope of Rome is the church and the church is the pope of Rome, and one man is the infallible teacher of all Christians, to whom one must "submit" to be "saved". Christ doesn't require such submission, and doesn't teach this error. Papism is error; self-papism (Protestantism) is just a twist upon romanism (papism).