Infant Baptism

[jamie26301]

What do you think of infant baptism? I used to believe in it because of the verse by Peter "baptism now saves you." But in my Ampified Bible, it says "saved from inward fears and questions." So I'm not sure that Baptism is a salvatic part of our redemption anymore.

I would baptized my children as a dedication, not because it would save them. I believe it's ok to get baptized more than once; it's in the bible. Acts 29:1-5

[AnandaHya]

?? acts only has 28 chapters??

I don't believe in infant baptism as anything more than giving them a bath in blessed water which you could do every night if you wanted in your own bathtub.

Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 and there is no record in the Bible where any baby was baptized with water.

[MaggieMye]

Babies cannot CHOOSE to obey and be baptized. 'nuf said.

Maggie

[LightningClap0002]

Originally Posted by MaggieMye

Babies cannot CHOOSE to obey and be baptized. 'nuf said.

Maggie

So what if the can't choose?

[jamie26301]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

?? acts only has 28 chapters??

Sorry, chapter 19.

I don't believe in infant baptism as anything more than giving them a bath in blessed water which you could do every night if you wanted in your own bathtub.

Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 and there is no record in the Bible where any baby was baptized with water.

Understood.

[Dude653]

A baby is too young to understand what baptism is, so does it really mean anything?

[AnandaHya]

Acts 19

Paul at Ephesus

1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether [a]there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized [b]in the name of the Lord Jesus.

mmm what is the difference between John's baptism and Jesus'? Repentance versus faith?

[jamie26301]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

mmm what is the difference between John's baptism and Jesus'? Repentance versus faith?

To be honest, I'm not that sure what the passage means. I just know these people had two water baptisms. I've been baptized twice, and was going to get baptized again and my priest said that was not a good idea, that there was no one baptized twice in the Bible. Well, he was wrong.

[Kimber321]

I agree with Ananda. Baptism is an outward symbol of your faith in Christ. It is up to the child as to whether or not they accept Jesus, once they understand. You can get baptized all you want but, without faith in Christ, it isn't going to do a thing for your salvation.

[Dude653]

I agree, Kimber.. without faith in Christ... you just gettin wet

[LightningClap0002]

Originally Posted by Dude653

A baby is too young to understand what baptism is, so does it really mean anything?

Mean anything to who? To the child, probably not. Then again, the protestant churches that i know of that infant baptize don't claim that it does mean anything to the child.

[Scotth1960]

Originally Posted by jamie26301

What do you think of infant baptism? I used to believe in it because of the verse by Peter "baptism now saves you." But in my Ampified Bible, it says "saved from inward fears and questions." So I'm not sure that Baptism is a salvatic part of our redemption anymore.

I would baptized my children as a dedication, not because it would save them. I believe it's ok to get baptized more than once; it's in the bible. Acts 29:1-5

Only one baptism is valid (see Ephesians 4). Only baptism in the Church Christ founded is valid. There are no sacraments outside of the Orthodox Church. If you want the truth regarding infant baptism, see chapter 8, Infant Baptism, Biblical and Patristic Support, The Meaning of Baptism, "Believer's Baptism", The Age of Accountability, in: Father James Early. From Baptist to Byzantium: How a Baptist Missionary Traveled Halfway Around the Word To Find the Ancient Orthodox Faith. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Press, 2009. Regina Orthodox Press, PO Box 5288, Salisbury, MA 01952
Regina Orthodox Press Online Store
God bless you.

[dscherck]

The idea that infant baptism is unscriptural is a new innovation in Christian thought, found only in the last few centuries. We have records of Christians baptizing their children as far back as the first century. Scripture too abounds in support for the practice.

Here's some good verses regarding the situation:
Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Job 14:1-4 - man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.

Psalm 51:5 - we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity of baptism from conception.

Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?

Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.

Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.

Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.

Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church's practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a "believer's baptism" requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).

Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.

Rom. 5:12 - sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies' souls are affected by Adam's sin and need baptism just like adult souls.

Rom. 5:15 - the grace of Jesus Christ surpasses that of the Old Covenant. So children can also enter the new Covenant in baptism. From a Jewish perspective, it would have been unthinkable to exclude infants and children from God's Covenant kingdom.

1 Cor. 1:16 - Paul baptized the household ("oikos") of Stephanus. Baptism is not limited to adults.

Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - Paul addresses the "saints" of the Church, and these include the children he addresses in Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20. Children become saints of the Church only through baptism.

Eph. 2:3 - we are all by nature children of wrath, in sin, like all mankind. Infants are no exception. See also Psalm 51:5 and Job 14:1-4 which teach us we are conceived in sin and born unclean.

2 Thess. 3:10 - if anyone does not work let him not eat. But this implies that those who are unable to work should still be able to eat. Babies should not starve because they are unable to work, and should also not be denied baptism because they are unable to make a declaration of faith.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:3-5 - the faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic's sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another's faith, just like infant baptism. The infant child is forgiven of sin based on the parents' faith.

Matt. 8:5-13 - the servant is healed based upon the centurion's faith. This is another example of healing based on another's faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone else’s faith, then He can baptize us based on someone else’s faith as well.

Mark 9:22-25 - Jesus exercises the child's unclean spirit based on the father's faith. This healing is again based on another's faith.

1 Cor. 7:14 – Paul says that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents.

Exodus 12:24-28 - the Passover was based on the parent's faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died.

Joshua 5:2-7 - God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent's faith. The parents play a critical role in their child's salvation.



And some writings from the early Christian Church regarding infant baptism:

"And many, both men and women, who have been Christ's disciples from childhood, remain pure and at the age of sixty or seventy years..." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 15:6 (A.D. 110-165).

"And when a child has been born to one of them, they give thanks to God [baptism]; and if moreover it happen to die in childhood, they give thanks to God the more, as for one who as passed through the world without sins." Aristides, Apology, 15 (A.D. 140).

"Polycarp declared, 'Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and Saviour?" Polycarp, Martyrdom of Polycarp, 9 (A.D. 156).

"For He came to save all through means of Himself--all, I say, who through Him are born again to God--infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2,22:4 (A.D. 180).

"I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord." Polycrates, Fragment in Eusebius' Church History, V:24:7 (A.D. 190).

"And they shall baptise the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family." Hippolytus of Rome, Apostolic Tradition, 21 (c. A.D. 215).

"[T]herefore children are also baptized." Origen, Homily on Luke, XIV (A.D. 233).

"For this reason, moreover, the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too." Origen, Homily on Romans, V:9 (A.D. 244).

"Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which required a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous." Origen, Homily on Leviticus, 8:3 (post A.D. 244).

"But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day...And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism...we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…" Cyprian, To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2, 6 (A.D. 251).

"It shows no crease when infants put it on [the baptismal garment], it is not too scanty for young men, it fits women without alteration." Optatus of Mileve, Against Parmenium, 5:10(A.D. 365).

"Have you an infant child? Do not let sin get any opportunity, but let him be sanctified from his childhood; from his very tenderest age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Fearest thou the Seal on account of the weakness of nature?" Gregory Nazianzen, Oration on Holy Baptism, 40:17 (A.D. 381).

"Be it so, some will say, in the case of those who ask for Baptism; what have you to say about those who are still children, and conscious neither of the loss nor of the grace? Are we to baptize them too? Certainly, if any danger presses. For it is better that they should be unconsciously sanctified than that they should depart unsealed and uninitiated." Gregory Nazianzen, Oration on Holy Baptism, 40:28 (A.D. 381).

"'Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' No one is expected: not the infant, not the one prevented by necessity." Ambrose, Abraham, 2,11:79 (A.D. 387).

"We do baptize infants, although they are not guilty of any sins." John Chrysostom, Ad Neophytos (A.D. 388).

"And if any one seek for divine authority in this matter, though what is held by the whole Church, and that not as instituted by Councils, but as a matter of invariable custom, is rightly held to have been handed down by apostolical authority, still we can form a true conjecture of the value of the sacrament of baptism in the case of infants, from the parallel of circumcision, which was received by God's earlier people, and before receiving which Abraham was justified, as Cornelius also was enriched with the gift of the Holy Spirit before he was baptized." Augustine, On Baptism against the Donatist, 4:24:31 (A.D. 400).

"While the son is a child and thinks as a child and until he comes to years of discretion to choose between the two roads to which the letter of Pythagoras points, his parents are responsible for his actions whether these be good or bad. But perhaps you imagine that, if they are not baptized, the children of Christians are liable for their own sins; and that no guilt attaches to parents who withhold from baptism those who by reason of their tender age can offer no objection to it. The truth is that, as baptism ensures the salvation of the child, this in turn brings advantage to the parents. Whether you would offer your child or not lay within your choice, but now that you have offered her, you neglect her at your peril." Jerome, To Laeta, Epistle 107:6 (A.D. 403).

"Now, seeing that they [Pelagians] admit the necessity of baptizing infants,--finding themselves unable to contravene that authority of the universal Church, which has been unquestionably handed down by the Lord and His apostles,--they cannot avoid the further concession, that infants require the same benefits of the Mediator, in order that, being washed by the sacrament and charity of the faithful, and thereby incorporated into the body of Christ, which is the Church, they may be reconciled to God, and so live in Him, and be saved, and delivered, and redeemed, and enlightened. But from what, if not from death, and the vices, and guilt, and thraldom, and darkness of sin? And, inasmuch as they do not commit any sin in the tender age of infancy by their actual transgression, original sin only is left." Augustine, On forgiveness of sin and baptism, 39[26] (A.D. 412).

"The blessed Cyprian, indeed, said, in order to correct those who thought that an infant should not be baptized before the eighth day, that it was not the body but the soul which behoved to be saved from perdition -- in which statement he was not inventing any new doctrine, but preserving the firmly established faith of the Church; and he, along with some of his colleagues in the episcopal office, held that a child may be properly baptized immediately after its birth." Augustine, Epistle 166:8:23 (A.D. 412).

"'C. Tell me, pray, and rid me of all doubts, why little children are baptized?
A. That their sins may be forgiven them in baptism." Jerome, Against the Pelagians, 3:18 (A.D. 415).

"Likewise, whosoever says that those children who depart out of this life without partaking of that sacrament shall be made alive in Christ, certainly contradicts the apostolic declaration, and condemns the universal Church, in which it is the practice to lose no time and run in haste to administer baptism to infant children, because it is believed, as an indubitable truth, that otherwise they cannot be made alive in Christ."
Augustine, Epistle 167,7,21 (A.D. 415).

"Canon 2. Likewise it has been decided that whoever says that infants fresh from their mothers' wombs ought not to be baptized...let him be anathema." Council of Carthage, Canon 2 (A.D. 418).

"Concerning the Donatists it seemed good that we should hold counsel with our brethren and fellow priests Siricius and Simplician concerning those infants alone who are baptized by Donatists: lest what they did not do of their own will, when they should be converted to the Church of God with a salutary determination, the error of their parents might prevent their promotion to the ministry of the holy altar." African Code, Canon 47/51 (A.D. 419).

"[T]his concupiscence, I say, which is cleansed only by the sacrament of regeneration, does undoubtedly, by means of natural birth, pass on the bond of sin to a man's posterity, unless they are themselves loosed from it by regeneration." Augustine, On Marriage and Concupiscence, 1:23 (A.D. 420).

"Believest thou this?...When a newborn child is brought forward to receive the anointing of initiation, or rather of consummation through holy baptism." Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on John, 7 (A.D. 428).

"Question XIX. Concerning those who after being baptized in infancy were captured by the Gentiles, and lived with them after the manner of the Gentiles, when they come back to Roman territory as still young men, if they seek communion, what shall be done?
Reply: If they have only lived with Gentiles and eaten sacrificial food, they can be purged by fasting and laying on of hands, in order that for the future abstaining from things offered to idols, they may be partakers of Christ's mysteries. But if they have either worshipped idols or been polluted with manslaughter or fornication, they must not be admitted to communion, except by public penance." Leo the Great [regn. A.D. 440-461], To Rusticus, Epistle 167 (A.D. 459).

"But with respect to trine immersion in baptism, no truer answer can be given than what you have yourself felt to be right; namely that, where there is one faith, a diversity of usage does no harm to holy Church. Now we, in immersing thrice, signify the sacraments of the three days' sepulture; so that, when the infant is a third time lifted out of the water, the resurrection after a space of three days may be expressed." Gregory the Great [regn. A.D. 590-604], To Leander, Epistle 43 (A.D. 591).



Of particular interest is the first quote from Justin Martyr, who, writing in the early 1st century, talks of men and women in their 60s who were baptized as infants, showing that the practice actually dates back to within the lifespan of some of the apostles themselves!

[tribesman]

I was baptist by conviction for as long as I can remember, even before I was saved I thought "believer's baptism" was the proper mode of baptism. However, about 2-3 years ago I read up on the issue, did some research and examined scripture on it, and I concluded that christian families may baptize their little ones. I would still hold to that baptism should be done by immersion though (I think the greek church still has this practice) and not by pouring or sprinkling.

Baptism as replacing circumcision as the sign and seal of the (new) covenant I believe is biblically valid. This makes it quite clear that there needs not be a time when baptism should be withheld from the legal recipients. I also believe it is clear that God's will is to save people collectively. In ancient times there were not only any individualism but also no "equal rights". If the head of the family, the patriarch, was baptised, so followed his wife, his children and his servants. In infant baptism it is very clear that it is not man, but God, who works. That is why some traditions call baptism, baptismal grace.

[kayem77]

I was baptized when I was less than one year old. I wasn't saved until this year. Baptism doesn't go hand in hand with salvation, faith comes first before you get baptized. Baptism is a command of the Lord:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.'' Matthew 28:19
but it's not a prerequisite for salvation. The clearest example is the criminal crucified next to Jesus, whose faith saved him (Luke 23).

Personally, I haven't been baptized in water since I haven't got the chance to attend a church because of complicated circumstances. As soon as I attend a church, I will get baptized (again) as the Lord commanded. And this time I will do it believing that Jesus is Lord, as a symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ .

[jamie26301]

Originally Posted by Dude653

A baby is too young to understand what baptism is, so does it really mean anything?

You say babies don't understand the things of God, but both the Psalms and Jesus said that "out of the mouths of nursing infants you have ordained praise."

[tribesman]

Originally Posted by jamie26301

You say babies don't understand the things of God, but both the Psalms and Jesus said that "out of the mouths of nursing infants you have ordained praise."

Amen. The promises are also for the children.

Acts.2

[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

[jamie26301]

Originally Posted by dscherck

The idea that infant baptism is unscriptural is a new innovation in Christian thought, found only in the last few centuries. We have records of Christians baptizing their children as far back as the first century. Scripture too abounds in support for the practice.

Of particular interest is the first quote from Justin Martyr, who, writing in the early 1st century, talks of men and women in their 60s who were baptized as infants, showing that the practice actually dates back to within the lifespan of some of the apostles themselves!

Wow, you really dropped a bomb here. Good work!

[dscherck]

There's a great wealth of information available to us from the early days of the Christian faith. Justin Martyr's just one of many early Christian leaders who left behind writings for us.