... but what does the Bible say about sin?

[Crossfire]

Many doctrines and denominations teach today that sin is OK in the life of the believer. But what does the Bible say about sin? As believers are we saved 'in sin' as many modern doctrines claim or are we truly saved 'from sin'?

Any doctrine that makes allowances for sin is a doctrine of compromise. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul speaks of the great apostasy where Paul predicts that many believers will be lead astray by doctrines that allow sin. Paul makes reference to this apostasy again in 2 Timothy 3: 1 - 5:

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people"

If you notice, all of the attributes listed are the complete of opposite of the evidences (fruits) of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is the manifestation of God's divine grace and nature in our lives. If we learn to rely on the indwelling Christ instead of the flesh, then intentional - premeditated sin should be nonexistant in our lives. We know this because of the many scriptures gives which tell us that believers shouldn't sin. Here are a few examples:

Exodus 20.20 ...that his fear may be before your faces. That ye sin not...
Exodus 32.33 ...whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book...
Psalm 69.28 ...let them be blotted out of the book of the living...
Ezekiel 18.4 ...the soul that sinneth it shall die.
Ezekiel 18.20 ...the soul that sinneth it shall die.
Ezekiel 30.15 ...and I will pour out my fury upon sin.
Matthew 6.23 ...but if thy eye be evil thy whole body shall be full of darkness.
Matthew 7.23 ...depart from me ye workers of iniquity
Matthew 16.19 ...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.
Matthew 18.18 ...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.
Luke 13.27 ...depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
John 1.29 ...behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 5.14 ...behold thou art made whole, go and sin no more.
John 8.11 ...go, and sin no more.
John 8.32 ...the truth shall make you free.
John 8.34 ...whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
John 8.36 ...if the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
John 9.31 ...God heareth not sinners.
Romans 6.2 ...how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?
Romans 6.6 ...henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 6.7 ...for he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6.11 ...be dead indeed unto sin, but alive in God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6.12 ...let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body.
Romans 6.13 ...neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin.
Romans 6.14 ...for sin shall have no dominion over you.
Romans 6.15 ...shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 6.18 ...being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6.20 ...when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6.22 ...being made free from sin, and became the servants of God.
Romans 6.23 ...the wages of sin is death.
1 Corinthians 6.9 ...the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15.34 ...Awake to righteousness and sin not.
Gal. 5:21 ...They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph. 4:26 ...Be ye angry, and sin not
Eph. 4:27 ...neither give place to the devil.
Eph. 5:27 ...holy and without blemish.
Col. 1:22 ...To present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight:
Col. 3:5 ...mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth
1 Thes. 3:13 ...To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God
1 Tim 5:20 ...them that sin rebuke before all, that others may also fear
2 Tim 2:19 ...Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity
Titus 2:12 ...Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world
Titus 2:14 ...Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
Heb. 10:26 ...For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins
1 Pet. 2:11 ...abstain from fleshly lust, which war against the soul
1 Pet. 2:21-22 ...Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps, who did no sin
1 Pet. 4:1 ...He that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin
1 Pet. 4:2 ...no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God
2 Pet. 2:9 ...the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations
1 John 1:7 ...the blood of Jesus Christ His son cleanseth us from all sin
1 John 1:9 ...and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
1 John 2:1 ...that ye sin not
1 John 2:6 ...he that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked
1 John 3:6 ...Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
1 John 3:8 ...he that committeth sin is of the devil
1 John 3:9 ...whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin
1 John 3:10 ...Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God
1 John 5:18 ...whosoever is born of God sinneth not
2 John 9 ...Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God
3 John 11 ...He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen god and there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination or maketh a lie

 

[Abiding]

Many doctrines and denominations teach today that sin is OK in the life of the believer. But what does the Bible say about sin? As believers are we saved 'in sin' as many modern doctrines claim or are we truly saved 'from sin'? who is teaching, sin is ok? name the doctrines please

Any doctrine that makes allowances for sin is a doctrine of compromise. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul speaks of the great apostasy where Paul predicts that many believers will be lead astray by doctrines that allow sin. Paul makes reference to this apostasy again in 2 Timothy 3: 1 - 5:Im sorry the apostasy is not focused on doctrines that allow sin...much more than that.

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people"

If you notice, all of the attributes listed are the complete of opposite of the evidences (fruits) of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is the manifestation of God's divine grace and nature in our lives. If we learn to rely on the indwelling Christ instead of the flesh, then intentional - premeditated sin should be nonexistant in our lives. We know this because of the many scriptures gives which tell us that believers shouldn't sin. Here are a few examples:

Exodus 20.20 ...that his fear may be before your faces. That ye sin not...
Exodus 32.33 ...whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book...
Psalm 69.28 ...let them be blotted out of the book of the living...
Ezekiel 18.4 ...the soul that sinneth it shall die.
Ezekiel 18.20 ...the soul that sinneth it shall die.
Ezekiel 30.15 ...and I will pour out my fury upon sin.
Matthew 6.23 ...but if thy eye be evil thy whole body shall be full of darkness.
Matthew 7.23 ...depart from me ye workers of iniquity
Matthew 16.19 ...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.
Matthew 18.18 ...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.
Luke 13.27 ...depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
John 1.29 ...behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 5.14 ...behold thou art made whole, go and sin no more.
John 8.11 ...go, and sin no more.
John 8.32 ...the truth shall make you free.
John 8.34 ...whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
John 8.36 ...if the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
John 9.31 ...God heareth not sinners.
Romans 6.2 ...how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?
Romans 6.6 ...henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 6.7 ...for he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6.11 ...be dead indeed unto sin, but alive in God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6.12 ...let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body.
Romans 6.13 ...neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin.
Romans 6.14 ...for sin shall have no dominion over you.
Romans 6.15 ...shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 6.18 ...being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6.20 ...when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6.22 ...being made free from sin, and became the servants of God.
Romans 6.23 ...the wages of sin is death.
1 Corinthians 6.9 ...the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15.34 ...Awake to righteousness and sin not.
Gal. 5:21 ...They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph. 4:26 ...Be ye angry, and sin not
Eph. 4:27 ...neither give place to the devil.
Eph. 5:27 ...holy and without blemish.
Col. 1:22 ...To present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight:
Col. 3:5 ...mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth
1 Thes. 3:13 ...To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God
1 Tim 5:20 ...them that sin rebuke before all, that others may also fear
2 Tim 2:19 ...Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity
Titus 2:12 ...Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world
Titus 2:14 ...Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity
Heb. 10:26 ...For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins
1 Pet. 2:11 ...abstain from fleshly lust, which war against the soul
1 Pet. 2:21-22 ...Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps, who did no sin
1 Pet. 4:1 ...He that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin
1 Pet. 4:2 ...no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God
2 Pet. 2:9 ...the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations
1 John 1:7 ...the blood of Jesus Christ His son cleanseth us from all sin
1 John 1:9 ...and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
1 John 2:1 ...that ye sin not
1 John 2:6 ...he that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked
1 John 3:6 ...Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
1 John 3:8 ...he that committeth sin is of the devil
1 John 3:9 ...whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin
1 John 3:10 ...Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God
1 John 5:18 ...whosoever is born of God sinneth not
2 John 9 ...Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God
3 John 11 ...He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen god and there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination or maketh a lie

what believer doesnt know this? Why dont you give implications of this truth...rather than go on and on about it. There are methods and applications for this all through scripture..from taking thoughts captive...to renewing the mind...prayer...scripture learning...

Preach the gospel....then feed them the implications...harping on sin is just getting old. We need washed and regenerated and to learn HOW, and WHO does this work.

 

[Bloodwashed]

Dear Crossfire. We are saved from sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us. In Christ we are a new creation. It is no longer I that sins, but sin that sinneth in me. Focus on the righteousness you have in Christ. Focus on sin, & its eradacation, & you will never win at that game. If you are born again, 1 John 1:9 is a done deal. He has cleansed you from ALL unrightousness. Period!!! God Bless You!--Mark--

 

[Cobus]

Cross here is my excuse to keep on sinning..... the devil is my father! If the Lord Jesus was I CANNOT sin! 1 John 3.

 

[AnandaHya]

what believer doesnt know this? Why dont you give implications of this truth...rather than go on and on about it. There are methods and applications for this all through scripture..from taking thoughts captive...to renewing the mind...prayer...scripture learning...

Preach the gospel....then feed them the implications...harping on sin is just getting old. We need washed and regenerated and to learn HOW, and WHO does this work.

Psalm 51:6-8
King James Version (KJV)
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Have you been washed in the blood of Christ? do you base your faith in yourself or in what Jesus Christ has done on the cross?

What does the Bible say about sin?

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 3:24-26
King James Version (KJV)
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Hebrews 10:18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

so anyone want to tackle what it means when the Bible says there is NO MORE Offering for sin?

how about the words Propitiation and Remission?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would like to know which churches are teaching sin is ok. I have never seen any (not saying they are not out there, but I have yet to see one)

All this sinless crap in here lately is getting really old. Why is it people want to place themselves back under the law? God did not waste his breath when he said in his word that the curse of the law (death) has been taken away, Or when he said that Christ took the ordinances which were contrary to us (the law) and nailed it to the cross.

The problem we have is when people make the law (sinless) a prerequisite for salvation. or are foolish enough to think they do not sin. The pharisees thought this. Jesus even admitted they were some of the most righteous people on earth, by claiming unless our righteousness exceeds theirs we have no hope. The problem is our righteousness can't exceed theirs, even if we are saved.

It is somewhat easy to not do the well known sins (adultry, fornication, murder etc) But how many of us really do the others on a 100 % basis. things like:

Love the lord with all your heart mind and soul: How many of us can say without a doubt we always put God first, in every area of our lives? I think if Christ himself appeared to us, and we saw our real lives, we would all admit we do not love God perfectly.

Love your neighbor. Who does Christ call our neighbor? Everyone we come in contact with. We see some of the "sinless" people in here already fail in this category. Yet how many of us can truly say we always love anyone we come in contact the way God loves, that we would be willing to give our lives for them? (remember Christ died for us when we were his enemy!)

Covet: How many of us can truly say we NEVER EVER look at what someone else has, and even for a minute say, wow I wish I had that!

and finally pride. I first. How many can say they never put their needs above anyone else's. Or say they never have a moment of pride where they put self first, or take credit for anything. The fact is just saying one could be "sinless" and never do any of the things mentioned here is pride in itself and is a sin.

Instead of slamming on people by saying they "allow sin" we should come together and show the told God has given us to over come sin. We would have much better conversations

 

[zone]

Dear Crossfire. We are saved from sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us. In Christ we are a new creation. It is no longer I that sins, but sin that sinneth in me. Focus on the righteousness you have in Christ. Focus on sin, & its eradacation, & you will never win at that game. If you are born again, 1 John 1:9 is a done deal. He has cleansed you from ALL unrightousness. Period!!! God Bless You!--Mark--

mark:
this is the terrifying truth.
every legalistic group ends up back in bondage to sin...it starts with the leaders beating up the sheep over the Law.

and ends in a house full of hypocrites - hiding their sin out of fear.

hidden sin is unconfessed sin....then sin becomes 'mistakes' and so on.

i believe its the very evidence that Paul warned of:

Galatians 5:4
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[zone]

It is somewhat easy to not do the well known sins (adultry, fornication, murder etc) But how many of us really do the others on a 100 % basis. things like:

Love the lord with all your heart mind and soul: How many of us can say without a doubt we always put God first, in every area of our lives? I think if Christ himself appeared to us, and we saw our real lives, we would all admit we do not love God perfectly.

Love your neighbor. Who does Christ call our neighbor? Everyone we come in contact with. We see some of the "sinless" people in here already fail in this category. Yet how many of us can truly say we always love anyone we come in contact the way God loves, that we would be willing to give our lives for them? (remember Christ died for us when we were his enemy!)

EG:
how far we have gotten from the Gospel when we think the Lord was saying the Two Great Commands are the Gospel! they are THE LAW!

and of course with the new heart we are willing and desire to do them.

but you are absolutely right...if we think we are righteous and are not fulfilling those 2 Commands every moment seamlessly to God's Perfect Standard (THE DECALOGUE), we've broken the whole of the Law.

as far i know, there was only One who fulfilled the Law perfectly and is acceptable to God.

Romans 4
22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

logizomai: to reckon, to consider​

Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I reckon, count, decide
Definition: I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

3049 logízomai (the root of the English terms "logic, logical") – properly, compute, "take into account"; reckon (come to a "bottom-line"), i.e. reason to a logical conclusion (decision).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG:
how far we have gotten from the Gospel when we think the Lord was saying the Two Great Commands are the Gospel! they are THE LAW!

and of course with the new heart we are willing and desire to do them.

but you are absolutely right...if we think we are righteous and are not fulfilling those 2 Commands every moment seamlessly to God's Perfect Standard (THE DECALOGUE), we've broken the whole of the Law.

as far i know, there was only One who fulfilled the Law perfectly and is acceptable to God.

Romans 4
22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

logizomai: to reckon, to consider​

Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I reckon, count, decide
Definition: I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

3049 logízomai (the root of the English terms "logic, logical") – properly, compute, "take into account"; reckon (come to a "bottom-line"), i.e. reason to a logical conclusion (decision).

I just look at Daniel and the Apostle John.

One there is no sin ever montioned. and one at the end of his life as a disciple and apostle.

Both fell to their kneews and tried to hide their face in the sight of God. because Both knew they were unworthy.

How does anyone think they could be more holy than either of these two great men of God? It boggles my mind

 

[notIbutChrist]

I would like to know which churches are teaching sin is ok. I have never seen any

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth first you say you have never heard any church say sin is ok the you say...

All this sinless crap in here lately is getting really old.

So which is it, do you believe living sinless is crap, and sin is ok, or do you believe sin is not ok, and we should live sinlessly?

 

[notIbutChrist]

Instead of slamming on people by saying they "allow sin" we should come together and show the told God has given us to over come sin. We would have much better conversations

Again talking out of both sides of your mouth, has God given us the power to overcome sin, or is it impossible for us to overcome sin. Both can't be true

 

[Crossfire]

Holiness has nothing to do with man attempting to resist the desires of the flesh. That is a losing battle seeing as you are fighting the flesh with the flesh. - However, holiness is actually a close intimate relationship with the author our of our salvation (Christ) who downloads His Divine nature (which is grace) into our very being. Our only role in the process is allowing Him to live in us and through us. We do this by surrendering our own sense of self to the knowledge of who He is and what it is He desires. Christ calls this 'abiding in the vine'. Paul calls this 'walking in the Spirit'. Both promise that if we do this we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

'Be Ye Holy Just As Our Heavenly Father Is Holy' ... all made possible by the Holy Spirit, His Divine nature dwelling in us... that is if we can keep our eyes off of our own worldly desires long enough to behold Him for Who and What He truly is.... HOLY!

 

[Crossfire]

I personally have heard Chuck Swindoll state on national radio that a person can be saved in sin. Antinomianism at it's worst!

 

[Crossfire]

I bring up the topic of sin for two simple reasons:

#1. To show everyone mankind's inability to overcome the flesh (self) with the flesh (self).

#2. To show how utterly reliant we are on the Holy Spirit (the manifestation of God's Divine nature in us, manifesting the grace of God in us for others) in our daily lives.

The modern church looks and acts just like the world because most are either taught there is nothing beyond initial salvation or have no desire to move beyond initial salvation. People like this do more to hurt the cause of Christ than to help it because the lost sees their hypocrisy then condemns the church as a whole as hypocrisy. To them Christianity is no different than Islam or Hinduism.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth first you say you have never heard any church say sin is ok the you say...
So which is it, do you believe living sinless is crap, and sin is ok, or do you believe sin is not ok, and we should live sinlessly?

You don't get it do you?

1. Saying one is saved by faith. AND NOT BY THE LAW. is not saying it is ok to sin.
2. Saying one will never be sinless IS NOT SAYING IT IS OK TO SIN.

Sin has its consequences. Anyone who has lived in sin knows it. We do not get off scott free. if nothing else. a believer suffers more than an unbeliever.. why?

1. A believer has guilt. an unbeliever does not.
2. A believer is chastened by the HS, an unbeliever is not.
3. Both suffer the consequence of committing said sin. But th ebeliever suffers the above two (I Know, I have been there done that AND IT SUX!!)

God said do not lie, why? because he said so. or because of the damage it will cause.

he said do not commit adultery. why? Because he said so? or because of the pain and suffering it cause both physically and emotionally.

You people think you have us pegged, but you do not know a thing about us.

But we know about you. There has been many like you. Scripture speaks of you. Pride above all else. Stating you are sinless but unable to see the sin you commit on the inside.

Get off this "you believe its ok to sin crap" I have never believed it. I don't teach it, and it is not scripture. Neither is becoming sinless in this lifetime.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again talking out of both sides of your mouth, has God given us the power to overcome sin, or is it impossible for us to overcome sin. Both can't be true

God gave us the power to overcome sin. BUT NO ONE WILL EVER BE SINLESS. JOHN SAID IT? PAUL SAID IT. Just because you don't believe it does not make it true.

You telling me you obey the 1st two command completely? You just sinned with your defaming remarks. do you not understand that? Did you love me as your neighbor? NO. and you want me to listen to you??

Look at the pharisees. that is the gospel you are preaching! They thought they were sinless also. Were they? neither are you. nore will you be until you are resurrected and given a body free of sin.

Get over it. and get over yourself. Pride comes before a fall. And I have seen many many who preach like you fall hard, because they finally got it through their head they could not live up to Gods standard. and their whole belief system was shattered, and they could not take it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I bring up the topic of sin for two simple reasons:

#1. To show everyone mankind's inability to overcome the flesh (self) with the flesh (self).

#2. To show how utterly reliant we are on the Holy Spirit (the manifestation of God's Divine nature in us, manifesting the grace of God in us for others) in our daily lives.


The modern church looks and acts just like the world because most are either taught there is nothing beyond initial salvation or ave no desire to move beyond initial salvation. People like this do more to hurt the cause of Christ than to help it because the lost sees their hypocrisy then condemns the church as a whole as hypocrisy. To them Christianity is no different than Islam or Hinduism.

The problem is

1. The church is to judgmental to the world, which turns them off.
2. The church looks away at sin, because it wants to think it is perfect and can not be in sin. which causes brothers and sisters to fall, because they soon realise the falacy in the "sinless doctrine"
3. The few licentious churches who think sin is ok ( a false church as said by James and Jude)


the church should come to the world in love, not judging them, give them the gospel. one can not break sin until they have god first.

the church should be a church of grace, realising we all have a human nature and will fail. This church will have brothers and sisters who come to the church for help, because they are not afraid of failing.

God said he did not give us a spirit of fear. he gave us a loving father. Do you kick your child out of your family because he sinned against you> NO! Why would God. God wants to love us inspite of our failures. Trying to be perfect is a losing battle. Those who preach it preach against a loving father, and preach for an evil dictator. That is what satan wants the world to think God is. Well he is not. never has been, never will be!

 

[zone]

Holiness has nothing to do with man attempting to resist the desires of the flesh. That is a losing battle seeing as you are fighting the flesh with the flesh. - However, holiness is actually a close intimate relationship with the author our of our salvation (Christ) who downloads His Divine nature (which is grace) into our very being. Our only role in the process is allowing Him to live in us and through us. We do this by surrendering our own sense of self to the knowledge of who He is and what it is He desires. Christ calls this 'abiding in the vine'. Paul calls this 'walking in the Spirit'. Both promise that if we do this we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

'Be Ye Holy Just As Our Heavenly Father Is Holy' ... all made possible by the Holy Spirit, His Divine nature dwelling in us... that is if we can keep our eyes off of our own worldly desires long enough to behold Him for Who and What He truly is.... HOLY!

please exegete Romans 8 showing it is describing 2 kinds of Christians - spiritual vs carnal
as opposed to
christians vs unregenerate men.

 

[Deadtosin]

lots of good points in this thread.. kudo's all... U too zone, I especially liked this one

mark:
this is the terrifying truth.
every legalistic group ends up back in bondage to sin...it starts with the leaders beating up the sheep over the Law.

and ends in a house full of hypocrites - hiding their sin out of fear.

hidden sin is unconfessed sin....then sin becomes 'mistakes' and so on.

i believe its the very evidence that Paul warned of:

Galatians 5:4
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Crossfire]

The problem is

1. The church is to judgmental to the world, which turns them off.
2. The church looks away at sin, because it wants to think it is perfect and can not be in sin. which causes brothers and sisters to fall, because they soon realise the falacy in the "sinless doctrine"
3. The few licentious churches who think sin is ok ( a false church as said by James and Jude)


the church should come to the world in love, not judging them, give them the gospel. one can not break sin until they have god first.

the church should be a church of grace, realising we all have a human nature and will fail. This church will have brothers and sisters who come to the church for help, because they are not afraid of failing.

God said he did not give us a spirit of fear. he gave us a loving father. Do you kick your child out of your family because he sinned against you> NO! Why would God. God wants to love us inspite of our failures. Trying to be perfect is a losing battle. Those who preach it preach against a loving father, and preach for an evil dictator. That is what satan wants the world to think God is. Well he is not. never has been, never will be!

E.G. have you ever heard me once insist that I was perfect or advocate sinless perfection? You coudn't have because I never have.

I take Romans 8 very seriously, that if we seek to walk in the Spirit then we should be able to turn from the lusts of the flesh because we draw our strength directly from Him. Our eyes are set on His love for us and we respond to Him and others in like manner. That's not to say that we won't stumble from time to time and that's what repentance / forgiveness is for. However, if we truly abide in Him, then there is no excuse for intentional - premeditated sin.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is the very essence of grace, in us and through us. I just don't see how a person can come to the conclusion that one can be both Completely Depraved and Filled with the Holy Spirit simultaneously. Contrary to popular belief, the Holy Spirit is not a bunji cord keeping us from falling into hell as we fulfill our own selfish desires.