Film on C.H. Spurgeon

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J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#21
#21
Crossfire said:
Neither Wycliffe, Hus or Luther were Calvinists. The ball had been rolling for roughly 100 - 150 years before Calvin came along but that's ok. What matters is that you're looking.
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I understand this, but this does not effect the truth (or lack thereof) of any claim. It's not a matter of which order it came in. In fact, because Pauls letters are demonstratebly Calvinist, and so are Jesus' words (whether we recognize it or not). The OT has many examples too (Isaiah 10 for one). I really don't think you want to do this whole "who came first must be right" thing.... Afterall, I do believe the Catholic church came before us. :)
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#22
#22
jimmydiggs said:
I understand this, but this does not effect the truth (or lack thereof) of any claim. It's not a matter of which order it came in. In fact, because Pauls letters are demonstratebly Calvinist, and so are Jesus' words (whether we recognize it or not). The OT has many examples too (Isaiah 10 for one). I really don't think you want to do this whole "who came first must be right" thing.... Afterall, I do believe the Catholic church came before us. :)
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Scripture tells us that we can judge a tree according to it's fruits. With that in mind I ask you, did Jesus or Paul ever have someone killed for disagreeing with them?

That is just one of the questions you need to ask yourself.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#23
#23
Crossfire said:
Scripture tells us that we can judge a tree according to it's fruits. With that in mind I ask you, did Jesus or Paul ever have someone killed for disagreeing with them?

That is just one of the questions you need to ask yourself.
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Dude, do you really think the only reason I believe Calvinism to be biblical is because John Calvin said it? No dude. I really don't care who said it. Calvinism is the term given it, and such, for the purpose of discussion I accept it as the term given. I don't care if it was termed "osdtl;e5bu9ae57nj574" I'd use that term for it. It's linguistics dude.


You could atleast give me a little credit that is due.


It is because of a chat with a Calvinist who presented a biblical case for Calvinism that I believe Calvinism to be accurate. I even did the "verses that say all" routine with him, and he went through and explained how all doesn't always mean all, but rather is subject to it's context.

I have learned a lot more sense, and have debated Arminians many times. Each time, I have not seen one that could adequately deal with scripture at an exegetical basis in this area of theology. George Bryson, Dave Hunt, Ergun Caner, Norman Geisler, the Calvary Chapel crowd etc etc... I've not seen any of the major critics present anything that worked.

This whole "because someone did something bad they can't be right" in and of itself does not work to establish anything. The Apostle Paul has done things that were wrong (persecuting early Christians), does that mean he couldn't have ever said anything right? Well, of course not. So now you'll have to re-work your Ad Hominem Fallacy in order to feel fulfilled in using it. You don't fool any of us.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#24
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#24
Crossfire said:
Neither Wycliffe, Hus or Luther were Calvinists. The ball had been rolling for roughly 100 - 150 years before Calvin came along but that's ok. What matters is that you're looking.

I would suggest that you allow history to speak for itself. Over the centuries there have been some who've attempted to distort history in order to cover up some pretty bad behavior, the excommunication, persecution, imprisonment (shackled in dungeons and tortured), as well as execution of fellow Christians who refused to have certain beliefs forced down their throats. Considering how poorly these people were treated, could you blame them for not accepting what the others were attempting to force on them?
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medieval (and earlier) history shows all kinds of killing going on. lots dying for the gospel too.
your knowledge of real history is somewhat shallow. you don't differentiate between calvin and those who came AFTER him.

anyways....if the reformers hadn't done what they did as imperfect as they were you'd be a catholic. or maybe not. anabaptist maybe?

so what's our modern hero Finney's excuse for the destruction of souls?

and what are today's churches' excuses for glamorizing him and upholding him as anything other than the outright heretic he was?

John Calvin held way closer to Biblical truth than that wolf Finney ever did. he never had ANY truth.

"But Finney was too much of a novice to distinguish between biblical, orthodox Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism. He lumped them together and ended up rejecting much sound doctrine along with what he thought was "hyper-Calvinism." Far from being a "moderate," Finney answered hyper-Calvinism by shifting to the opposite extreme—Pelagianism."

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/finney.htm
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#25
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#25
jimmydiggs said:
Dude, do you really think the only reason I believe Calvinism to be biblical is because John Calvin said it? No dude. I really don't care who said it. Calvinism is the term given it, and such, for the purpose of discussion I accept it as the term given. I don't care if it was termed "osdtl;e5bu9ae57nj574" I'd use that term for it. It's linguistics dude.


You could atleast give me a little credit that is due.


It is because of a chat with a Calvinist who presented a biblical case for Calvinism that I believe Calvinism to be accurate. I even did the "verses that say all" routine with him, and he went through and explained how all doesn't always mean all, but rather is subject to it's context.

I have learned a lot more sense, and have debated Arminians many times. Each time, I have not seen one that could adequately deal with scripture at an exegetical basis in this area of theology. George Bryson, Dave Hunt, Ergun Caner, Norman Geisler, the Calvary Chapel crowd etc etc... I've not seen any of the major critics present anything that worked.

This whole "because someone did something bad they can't be right" in and of itself does not work to establish anything. The Apostle Paul has done things that were wrong (persecuting early Christians), does that mean he couldn't have ever said anything right? Well, of course not. So now you'll have to re-work your Ad Hominem Fallacy in order to feel fulfilled in using it. You don't fool any of us.
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the pavolvian response to the name calvin.
propaganda by the ill-informed (arminians).


John Calvin: The man who did NOT invent Calvinism

Lastly, I would like to touch on the so-called "Five Points of Calvinism" (aka "The Doctrines of Grace" or "T.U.L.I.P."). This again is a somewhat misapplied term since Calvin was dead for over 50 years before these points were officially articulated. Like many of the foundational Christian teachings, it took an attack on the precept for it to be clearly formulated in response. That is to say, the so-called Five Points of Calvinism were ALREADY forgone conclusions & understood by almost all Protestants – it was not until a man named Jacob Arminius (a former Reformed Protestant) & his followers abandoned their Protestant faith & attacked its biblical foundation that the Reformers had to articulate this aspect. The Five Points of Calvinism (which was not the original name) were actually given in response to the the Arminians' "Five Articles of Remonstance".

So, neither Calvin nor the Reformers themselves sat around as often-depicted making up "dogma" to impose upon others.

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=2663
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#27
#27
RightBelieving said:
Calvin and the Chipmunks?



lol
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NiceneChristian, I like that!

Alvin-Calvin... I think I've seen that picture somewhere before though, might of been a blog though.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#28
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
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#28
Re: C.H. Spurgeon

Spurgeon was a preacher, not a theologian. Some people try to use some of his preaching to build a bridge called calminianism. Many arminians and enthusiasts love their chosen raisins of Spurgeon's cake.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#29
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
Re: C.H. Spurgeon

tribesman said:
Spurgeon was a preacher, not a theologian. Some people try to use some of his preaching to build a bridge called calminianism. Many arminians and enthusiasts love their chosen raisins of Spurgeon's cake.
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Arminians and Enthusiasts: bulletin concerning Reformed Avenue:

 
R

RightBelieving

Banned
#31
Oct 31, 2011
13
1
0
#31
jimmydiggs said:
NiceneChristian, I like that!

Alvin-Calvin... I think I've seen that picture somewhere before though, might of been a blog though.
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I'm NiceneChristian's brother. Since he got banned he told me to come talk on this site since he said that some people on here don't have the true Orthodox Gospel of Christ. I just think its fun to come on here and edifying to commune with other Christians.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#32
#32
RightBelieving said:
I'm NiceneChristian's brother. Since he got banned he told me to come talk on this site since he said that some people on here don't have the true Orthodox Gospel of Christ. I just think its fun to come on here and edifying to commune with other Christians.
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That's not what Scotth1960 said. So is he mistaken, or are you a liar?



Scotth1960 said:
I am moving West here in Erie, so I will be saying goodbye to you all for now. It's a dialogue hiatus. I would still like all of you (some of you) to comment on issues that matter to you personally and that you are interested in, whatever teachings or doctrines from the Bible that impress you, whatever controversies you are uncertain of, or certain of, and whatever you want to know about the Eastern Orthodox Church from Nicene Christian (now RightBelieving), and from any other EO Christian on this forum, including me. God bless you. God be with you always. Amen. November 2011 (new calendar date), Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
http://christianchat.com/581914-post1.html <--- click
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R

RightBelieving

Banned
#33
Oct 31, 2011
13
1
0
#33
jimmydiggs said:
That's not what Scotth1960 said. So is he mistaken, or are you a liar?
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I don't like to lie but the moderators are just going to ban me again. Please don't tell them I am a banned member. I didn't even do anything worthy of a ban. I got permanently banned for joking about drinking beer on camera in the chat room, how merciful is that? It was in the LOUNGE and I am 21, and there is not even a rule against what I did. They said I was banned for "drinking on camera" but I wasn't even drinking I was just joking. I looked in the rules and there is not a rule against "drinking on camera".


The moderator just didn't like me cause i'm Orthodox and believe in Saints. Less than 2 seconds after I made the joke i got banned. He did not even correct me he just straight banned me like a cruel judge.

Is that a Christ-like thing to do?
 
Descyple

Descyple

Senior Member
#34
Jun 7, 2010
3,023
48
48
#34
Crossfire said:
I like Spurgeon. I find much of what taught still relevant for today. For those who like Spurgeon, I strongly suggest checking out Andrew Murray. Both his testimony and sermons are amazing.
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Greetings Crossfire.

I ended up reading Andrew Murray's book "Humility" and was so touched by it that I put together a YouTube video made up of quotes from the book. If you'd like to check it out, I'll link it below.

Humility - Andrew Murray - YouTube
 
O

OldOrthodoxChristian

Banned
#35
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#35
Crossfire said:

Yes...

Surprised? *lol*

No Calvinist should go without reading Murray's works. Let me rephrase that... no Christian should go without reading Murray's works.
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Calvinism isn't Christian. It's Gnostic/Manichaean-dualistic/heretical/Fatalistic.
Calvinists may be Christians, but double predestination isn't Christian.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#36
#36
so you got that off yur chest. huh?
 
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