What part of our existence does God actually PLAN for?

[ijustwanttheTruth]

hey guys.
so a question struck me tonight that i guess has been on my mind for a long time. and i really never have gotten a good enough answer to it. it's surfacing again and i have decided to bring it here in hopes that your input will help me formulate a solid belief.

i am confused.
God has all power. He is sovereign. He CAN do anything He wants. BUT. when He created man, for whatever reason in this 6,000 + years, He has chosen to give authority over to man. not to rule the universe, but to take dominion and authority over the earth. we have authority in our words and actions to either rule the earth in submission to God, or not. but God gave us that free will. He leased the earth to us, so to speak.

now that doesn't mean that God stands by and does nothing. that means He waits for spoken word, for prayer, for declaration, before His spirit moves on our behalf. (at least this is my understanding of this life so far)

we can either agree with what God wants to do in our lives or not, make decisions according to them or not. now i am aware that once we make various decisions, even if it was not God's will, or His best desire or intention for our lives, He brings good out of it for those who love Him. i know that.

BUT. herein lies my question.
if we all are given the free will to make decisions apart from God's will, does it not make sense to say that very little that happens here is the intention of God? that many of life's circumstances are random, and or influenced by the enemy?

i think i believe (and i am open to hearing if there is a reason Biblically why my reasoning is false)- that's why i'm here....
that none of us were truly predestined to be here. (i'm not referring to the issue of predestination in the realm of salvation- ie, who is God's and who is not, who chooses heaven and who chooses hell) but rather the issue of existence on this earth in the first place. and at what point did we come into the consciousness of God. perhaps none of us were intended to be here, but that once our parents made the choice to come together, God still chooses to beckon and call us unto Himself and work in our lives where we let Him. and He works with every 'yes' and 'amen' in every heart ever born.

i think i believe that my parents were never meant to be together. and that i was not meant to exist. meaning that i believe that God did not dream me up or plan for me to be here, but now that i am here, all life reflects a piece of the heart of God. BECAUSE He set that construct into place when He created the world- the construct of life reproducing in His name, and according to his plan of development in the order of the universe. embryos, DNA, sperm, egg, spirit, etc etc.

maybe.... there was no set reasoning to determine my being here at all. maybe God (though knowing all things ahead of time and every choice every human would ever make) did not intend for this one or that one to be created. but that we are a random roll of the dice in a game that God established the rules for.

like every hand is random? God set up a world and then just stood back and let us play the game and role the dice? and that whatever hand we get was not actually God's intention for us? but that He can use it if we let Him?

does this make any sense? please help. i know Psalm 139 says that God knit us together in our mother's womb. that he saw our frame, yet unformed. i know that. and you may expound on that if you feel that scripture illustrates your point. but i am just really confused. and I have a hard time determining what the will of God is in varying situations.

what DOES God actually control in this life? or does He merely ALLOW things to happen based off of our choices and work from there?
is it up to us?

signed,
~ me, a child of God

 

[Abiding]

The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-Contents

Hey I think you would be greatly rewarded reading the Attributes of God.
In it these questions would be answered...from the bible..enjoy


Altho the quick answer is He planned for every second of it.

 

[ijustwanttheTruth]

Thanks Abiding

 

[cronjecj]

Hi there ijustwanttheTruth,

God is always in control whether in good or bad situations.

Isaiah 6:3 (KJV)
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

All that happens on the earth is part of His plan. evil + good.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

i think i believe that my parents were never meant to be together. and that i was not meant to exist. meaning that i believe that God did not dream me up or plan for me to be here, but now that i am here, all life reflects a piece of the heart of God.

He chose you before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

From the beginning of creation He has seen everything from beginning to end that is why He says I am the beginning and the end.



PS: Hi Abiding..

 

[jimmydiggs]

More than we think.


The below is part of a response I wrote to Roger Olson's book "Against Calvinism". So some statemetns will be made in response to what he has said.
5 “Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
6 I send him against a godless nation,
I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
to seize loot and snatch plunder,
and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
7 But this is not what he intends,
this is not what he has in mind;
his purpose is to destroy,
to put an end to many nations.
8 ‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
9 ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
Is not Hamath like Arpad,
and Samaria like Damascus?
10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
11 shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”




What does Isaiah 10 tell us? Well, that God has indeed used nations to be his "arm of the law", or as Isaiah puts it, "The rod of my anger, in whose hand is the club of my wrath!"(v.5) So to say that God could not have ever used the 19 hijackers on 9/11 for any reason whatsoever, just does not fit biblically. I'm pretty sure the people on the receiving end of the Assryians thought it was an horrific calamity.




This is not to say though, that God causes sin.

James 1:13 tells us otherwise..




James 1:13 (NASB95)
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.


Deuteronomy tells us this as well;


Deuteronomy 32:4
4 “The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are 1just;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.




Along with, Habbakkuk;




Habakkuk 1:13
13 Your eyes are too apure to 1approve evil,
And You can not look on wickedness with favor.
Why do You blook with favor
On those who deal ctreacherously?
Why are You dsilent when the wicked eswallow up
Those more righteous than they?




The Sovereignty of God is something we humans despise. I think it arises out of our pride. We want to feel like we're the ones in control, that set our own destiny. The bible says otherwise, and even cites specific incidents in Exodus and Amos.




Exodus 4:11
11 The Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or awho makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?




Amos 3:6
6 If a atrumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?






Also:
Sovereignty Scriptures <--- click

 

[Katy-follower]

It's always amazing to me how God will take a situation I'm in and use it to purge/discipline me, like a father will discipline his child. I see it happen.

Yes, we were born with free will, so God didn't want us to be robots, he wanted us to make our own choices. The main choice being whether we accept or reject him. What an amazing gift, to allow us to choose! Imagine if we were born and conditioned to accept Christ - how would we fully appreciate what he's done for us, and his unconditional love? Remember that love is only true if it's given freely. If we weren't given free will, we would not be able to love him by our own choice.

There will be times when God does test our faith in him. We know this because we all go through trials and tribulations as Christians. Just like an earthly father disciplines his child, so does God. You never quite see the positive outcome straight away, but you must have faith and turn to God to help you. Poor decisions are often a result of the flesh fighting the spirit.

As for trials and tribulations, think about it - it's very easy to have faith in God when everything's going right, but what about when things go wrong? Do we turn to God? A bad situation should strengthen us and hopefully bring us closer to God, if we choose to turn to him in our time of need..praying and asking him for comfort and guidance... we learn that the only way we'll make it through a trial is by completely relying on God's grace, power and guidance. Your faith levels will grow because you see how he personally helps you through a difficult time.

So, yes, we are given free will, but once we commit our lives to Christ we must walk in the Spirit....

Galatians 5:17: "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish"

 

[Slepsog4]

NONE...

We are all the product of the laws of nature. We came into existence by the acts of procreation. All else comes from nature, nurture, and personal decisions.

 

[ijustwanttheTruth]

NONE...

We are all the product of the laws of nature. We came into existence by the acts of procreation. All else comes from nature, nurture, and personal decisions.

see that's what makes sense to me.
thanks so much for piping in.

thank you all for your responses so far. i am mulling it over and am likely gonna read the book abiding suggested. all the feedback helps. it truly does.

 

[Laodicea]

2 Peter 1:3
(3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

God plans for us to be in heaven and has put plans for that before we were born but, it is up to us to choose.

 

[Steve4U]

I meditated on this too, and searched the scriptures. It has been hard to find an understanding that fits everything, but this thought has helped me.

God is in control of everything, except that which is in rebellion against Him. He yearns over us with infinite love, 'sees' everything, and intervenes as He desires for the ultimate (the finest). He both began and will conclude the matter.

...Also,

you allude to DNA (and I don't really know your opinion in this) but I have been having the thought that it is becoming wide-spread nowdays to attribute the physical mechanations of life with some power - or complete power - to affect what happens. This is a false understanding. These things respond to what goes on in the invisible reality, not the other way round. God's spirit goes forth and forms it.

This happened when my son was conceived (born). I could no more have created him than I could go out into the backyard and mix some dirt with water and create a living, breathing child with the miracle of a living soul.

I was not God's ideal match for his mother either, but in his Father's eyes he is perfect come forth at the perfect time, He yearns over him and given him the choice to come to Him through total, self-emptying sacrifice.

 

[ijustwanttheTruth]

These things respond to what goes on in the invisible reality, not the other way round. God's spirit goes forth and forms it.

This happened when my son was conceived (born). I could no more have created him than I could go out into the backyard and mix some dirt with water and create a living, breathing child with the miracle of a living soul.

I was not God's ideal match for his mother either, but in his Father's eyes he is perfect come forth at the perfect time, He yearns over him and given him the choice to come to Him through total, self-emptying sacrifice.

that's awesome stuff steve. thank you for sharing. i especially love the parallel of us trying to crate a child from the dirt. i agree that it is what goes on in the spiritual that dictates what happens in the physical. i alluded to DNA bc that is a construct that God set into motion. that is the strand of life that appears in our first stages. but you're right. the spirit of God forms it.

thank you for your thoughts <3

 

[jonathanbchristian]

hey guys.
so a question struck me tonight that i guess has been on my mind for a long time. and i really never have gotten a good enough answer to it. it's surfacing again and i have decided to bring it here in hopes that your input will help me formulate a solid belief.

i am confused.
God has all power. He is sovereign. He CAN do anything He wants. BUT. when He created man, for whatever reason in this 6,000 + years, He has chosen to give authority over to man. not to rule the universe, but to take dominion and authority over the earth. we have authority in our words and actions to either rule the earth in submission to God, or not. but God gave us that free will. He leased the earth to us, so to speak.

now that doesn't mean that God stands by and does nothing. that means He waits for spoken word, for prayer, for declaration, before His spirit moves on our behalf. (at least this is my understanding of this life so far)

we can either agree with what God wants to do in our lives or not, make decisions according to them or not. now i am aware that once we make various decisions, even if it was not God's will, or His best desire or intention for our lives, He brings good out of it for those who love Him. i know that.

BUT. herein lies my question.
if we all are given the free will to make decisions apart from God's will, does it not make sense to say that very little that happens here is the intention of God? that many of life's circumstances are random, and or influenced by the enemy?

i think i believe (and i am open to hearing if there is a reason Biblically why my reasoning is false)- that's why i'm here....
that none of us were truly predestined to be here. (i'm not referring to the issue of predestination in the realm of salvation- ie, who is God's and who is not, who chooses heaven and who chooses hell) but rather the issue of existence on this earth in the first place. and at what point did we come into the consciousness of God. perhaps none of us were intended to be here, but that once our parents made the choice to come together, God still chooses to beckon and call us unto Himself and work in our lives where we let Him. and He works with every 'yes' and 'amen' in every heart ever born.

i think i believe that my parents were never meant to be together. and that i was not meant to exist. meaning that i believe that God did not dream me up or plan for me to be here, but now that i am here, all life reflects a piece of the heart of God. BECAUSE He set that construct into place when He created the world- the construct of life reproducing in His name, and according to his plan of development in the order of the universe. embryos, DNA, sperm, egg, spirit, etc etc.

maybe.... there was no set reasoning to determine my being here at all. maybe God (though knowing all things ahead of time and every choice every human would ever make) did not intend for this one or that one to be created. but that we are a random roll of the dice in a game that God established the rules for.

like every hand is random? God set up a world and then just stood back and let us play the game and role the dice? and that whatever hand we get was not actually God's intention for us? but that He can use it if we let Him?

does this make any sense? please help. i know Psalm 139 says that God knit us together in our mother's womb. that he saw our frame, yet unformed. i know that. and you may expound on that if you feel that scripture illustrates your point. but i am just really confused. and I have a hard time determining what the will of God is in varying situations.

what DOES God actually control in this life? or does He merely ALLOW things to happen based off of our choices and work from there?
is it up to us?

signed,
~ me, a child of God

You have alot of questions. I believe you need alot of Scripture. God is sovern and does what He wishes. He can be just as involed as He wants to be. He can part the Red Sea and drown the Egyptians. Or He can step back and let Jesus be crucified. I do not believe in the "lease theory" because there is no verse that mentions that there is a lease. Look for the word lease in the Bible it is not in there. That is a false doctrine about man's dominion. You should read Ephesians 1:21 Jesus is far above all dominion. He has power to do what He wishes, even now. God will be doing things in the Tribulation that prove His dominion.

As for if God wanted you to be born that is a non-Biblical debate that should be avoided. The fact is that you are a Christian and God does have plans for you. God wants everyone to be saved 1 Timothy 2:4 and to be part of His plan. Only Jesus is born of a virgin the only begotten son of God; no one else should think they need to be born with such a plan to be loved by God. God so loved the World John 3:16; he loves even the sinners. I don't believe you should worry about wheither God wanted you to be born. He wants you now and yes He did allow that to happen; that's just the facts.

 

[cronjecj]

Come lets ask for wisdom,

James 1:5 (KJV)
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 

[ijustwanttheTruth]

Come lets ask for wisdom,

James 1:5 (KJV)
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Dear Yeshua. please give me wisdom. Please show me what you actually plan for. what you do, and don't do. and the hand you want to have in our lives.

 

[lukebo123]

This is a very good question.

Ones understanding of God is essential i believe to the answering of it.

Firstly you said:
"now that doesn't mean that God stands by and does nothing. that means He waits for spoken word, for prayer, for declaration, before His spirit moves on our behalf. (at least this is my understanding of this life so far)"

I think its important to remember that God doesn't wait for us before He takes action, yes we are to pray, make our requests know to God but He wont move unless its according to His will, im sure you know this, just sometimes i think Christians think they can somehow influence God and make Him do things, or that He wont do something unless we speak it out. If this was the case we wouldn't be here at all.
Secondly
"BUT. herein lies my question.
if we all are given the free will to make decisions apart from God's will, does it not make sense to say that very little that happens here is the intention of God? that many of life's circumstances are random, and or influenced by the enemy?"

Id like to attempt to answer this by illustrating my understanding of God and the bigger picture..

Ok so we have this vast universe, way beyond anything we can ever begin to measure, the universe ultimately gives us a glimpse of eternity, it just goes on and on and on. The bible says that one day God will roll up the universe like a scroll, Gods pretty big yeah, so His dwelling place is going to be BIG.

Imagine it from an angels perspective( before the Heavens and earth were created) dwelling in perfect peace in the Glory of God, the Trinity in perfect harmony.
Then God decides Hes going to do something, create the cosmos, and dot a tiny little planet in among it all, and on this planet create all manner of interesting creatures, then He creates a very interesting creature, man, with a unique connection to Him.
From the angels perspective, id imagine they would be like, wow, thats awesome..

So we all know the story, in perfection man broke the connection and God cursed the universe. Id imagine the angels at this point thought thats it, their doomed now, after all they had witnessed satan and the angels being cast from God after they rebelled.

However, God didnt just flick this universe off into oblivion because for this purpose it was created.

As you said earlier, God knows everything, everyone who will be born, who will chose Him, who wont, there are obviously many things that happen that aren't His will, was it His will satan and the angels rebelled, no, was it His will that man rebelled, no. I suppose you could ask why He bothered with it all in the first place, creating angels and man. I guess you could think of it like this. If you went to a women in part of africa where there was a high infant mortality rate, and asked why do you bother to have 10 children when you know that 6 will die? She would answer, for the sake of the 4 that wont. Why did God bother with it all, for the sake of the ones that WIll except Him and His way of salvation.

I dont want to get too far away from your question however i feel you may ( if you dont already) need to get this.

See, this world is messed up, we messed it up and things happen all the time were we can be like, God why? We will never be able to understand all the mysteries with our peanut brains, but ultimately God doesnt want us to spend our time trying to figure everything out.

I think it wrong that you wonder if your existence on this planet is just 'random', based upon your parents deciding to come together, there are many biblical references to disprove this idea
and psalm 139 as you quoted is a great one. vs 17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me O God.

Anyway just getting back to the angels perspective, ok we have rebelled, the world becomes wicked, despite God bearing with man, man continues to rebel and go his own way.
Lets remember, God can quite easily live without us He doesn't need man at all, infact its only by His pure grace and mercy He bares with us at all, because of sin we deserve everything we get.

So the angel wonders, how can man, being wicked have any possible future? He has a soul and spirit, hes eternal ( this is purely my thinking but maybe the angels, at the back of their minds thought it quite cruel God creating man knowing that nothing wicked can dwell with Him in heaven).

And this is were God magnifies His glory a billion fold in their eyes, He steps down onto this wicked planet and allows Himself to be beaten, tortured and crucified so as to make a way for man to be with Him in Glory, the Creator comes to His creation, and how did we receive Him?

For this purpose man was created, so that God could demonstrate His wrath, in that the ones that dont except Him will endure eternal punishment, but also His unfathomable love, were by allowing us, mere man who are as worms and maggots in His eyes ( Job 25) to enter into His Glory.
To the angels it was the ultimate demonstration, to man it was the ultimate demonstration.

Ultimately though, to hopefully answer at least part of your question : What part of our existence does God actually PLAN for?quite frankly it doesnt matter what happens in this life, some people literally live a life of hell ( God is sovereign and i believe from scripture that the ones that never hear about Christ) will be judged differently, there are many cases of Christians being tortured and killed, death happens one way or another, eternity and where were going to spend it is what matters.
I think personally the question seems somewhat irrelevant, what does He require?, that you walk in the Way, that we understand His Way of salvation for humanity and commit our lives daily to His hands through prayer and reading His Word.

Whats important is that the ones who do hear and know about Christ, understand and know in their hearts they are saved.

God is way bigger than we can grasp, this world is not it, as you well know, and setting our sights on heaven is the ultimate aim.

Im not sure if this will help you or not ( its good i go through it for my own remembrance even if it doesnt) . We must as Christians set our minds on things above.

If i can expand on anything or help in any other way please do ask.

Blessings
Luke

 

[vahn]

Do you eat rice krispees or cherrios?

 

[TheAristocat]

see that's what makes sense to me.
thanks so much for piping in.

thank you all for your responses so far. i am mulling it over and am likely gonna read the book abiding suggested. all the feedback helps. it truly does.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.

I think this means that man rolls the dice, but God determines how they land. Or in other words, Man makes decisions and God makes his plans accordingly. We can see this with Adam and Eve deciding to sin and then God coming up with the concept of atonement. God knows our decisions before we make them, so he can have all of history planned out. It's just that he allows us to make decisions and then works within our decisions to use us for his purposes. Also read:

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

So it would seem God is doing a little planning behind the scenes, but he gave us free will so that we would exercise it. I believe he works within our free will to plan for the choices he knows that we will make.

 

[cronjecj]

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.

I think this means that man rolls the dice, but God determines how they land. Or in other words, Man makes decisions and God makes his plans accordingly. We can see this with Adam and Eve deciding to sin and then God coming up with the concept of atonement. God knows our decisions before we make them, so he can have all of history planned out. It's just that he allows us to make decisions and then works within our decisions to use us for his purposes. Also read:

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

So it would seem God is doing a little planning behind the scenes, but he gave us free will so that we would exercise it. I believe he works within our free will to plan for the choices he knows that we will make.

and.....Proverbs 16:9 (KJV)
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

 

[TheAristocat]

and.....Proverbs 16:9 (KJV)
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

A very good one.