CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

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thefightinglamb

Guest
#21
#21
Was it 24 hours with 60 minutes each, and was God wearing a modern watch as there was no human at creation--just wondering...I am unsure about the six thousand years--it may be acurate I don't care to add up all the years in the Bible, but I dont doubt that, but it doesn't say specifically "six thousand years ago" so adding up the years in the Bible we guestimate somewhere "about 6000" years ago as you said...right?

I could be wrong there...
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#22
#22
The Bible teaches both explicitly and implicitly. When one reasons correctly and infers those implications he has learned what the Bible teaches.

6000 years is a rounding off what the internal evidence shows.

Time was created by God for us. He said "evening and morning a day". He said this 6 times. He rested from the activity of creation on the 7th.

The very notion of a week (known universally) comes out of creation. There is no natural phenomenon from which to deduce a week; unlike the month or year.
 
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thefightinglamb

Guest
#23
#23
Can you imagine an evning and morning without the Sun?

I do think creation was made in six days...but think about it, would you consider an evening and morning without the sun...

The term we use a day implies this almost.... Time had to be different when it first came into being, I believe...but yes, everything was created in six days...for me this means even this period of time considered now was in some mysterious God calender created back then...Everything was finished...Even as Jesus said, "It is finished."

I am kind of wondering of what you believe it means by God rested in the seventh day...Augustine interpreted it as his creation rested in him...remember Jesus said "his Father is always working and he too must always work" on a Sabbath...

If God rested on the seventh day, who brought out the sun? Who feed and looked after us?

I see the spiritual truths in Genesis though not all of them...
tony
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#24
Jan 8, 2009
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#24
The bible nowhere explicitly says the earth is 6000 years old.
How do we explain the dating methods which prove that the earth is much older?
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#25
Jan 8, 2009
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#25
For example ,when they discovered the world's oldest living tree in Sweden and dated it to be nearly 10,000 years old, that alone is 4000 years older than 6000 years. Can science be wrong about that?
 
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dodolah

Guest
#26
#26
in my limited mind as a human being, are you guys refering to this verse:
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day..." (2Peter 3:8,10).

Hence, the conclusion of earth is created in 6000 years ago..

 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#27
Jan 8, 2009
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#27
hmm if 1000 years is as one day then the 3.5 year tribulation period is only going to last about 5.04 minutes.
 
NoahsDad

NoahsDad

Senior Member
#28
Oct 30, 2006
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#28
dodolah said:
in my limited mind as a human being, are you guys refering to this verse:
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day..." (2Peter 3:8,10).

Hence, the conclusion of earth is created in 6000 years ago..
Click to expand...
thats a good question....if God created the earth in 6 days..............then 6 days for Him is 6000years.............then if the "experts"(term used loosly) are right and the bible math of years since Adam and eve add up to 6000 years......then wouldnt that make 12000 years?
 
NoahsDad

NoahsDad

Senior Member
#29
Oct 30, 2006
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#29
NoahsDad said:
thats a good question....if God created the earth in 6 days..............then 6 days for Him is 6000years.............then if the "experts"(term used loosly) are right and the bible math of years since Adam and eve add up to 6000 years......then wouldnt that make 12000 years?
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WAIT!!!! i forgot the seventh day that makes 13000.........lest you want to deduct the first 3 days cuz the land wasnt created till the 4th day then it would be 3000 years less then that makes the 10,000 year mark for the tree you mentioned about right .....hahahahahahaha
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#30
#30
Mahogany,

As you noted the OLDEST tree estimates about 10k years. This is actually reasonably close to biblical dating, more so than the evolutionary model of millions of years.

Let us just suppose that such trees were put in place AT creation... survived the flood and have continued to live. How old did they APPEAR to be when created. I mean, Adam was a full grown man of apparent age the moment he was created.
 
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Knightjester

Guest
#31
#31
Humbly, I'm neither a scientist nor a biblical scholar, but to come up with that number
as an absolute date that is no where to be found in the Bible is somewhat worth the crusade for.
In the Bible, as we know, there are rooms for us, the Christian, to show God of course,
that we love Him with our mind, too.

My sword is broken, so I'm nothing against your interpretation of the age of our planet, whatever number
you've come up with, but you must also realize that the creation of the first day by God
was not on Genesis 1:1, but on Genesis 1:3-5! (If you have the Bible, I suggest you read
Genesis 1:1-5 again and again, and again if you insist!)

The Primeval Atom theory (nickname the Big Bang) is a model of the universe
that included the moment of creation, a model that fitted the Scripture.

I'm not trying to tranquilize you with "In the Beginning there's a Big Bang!"
But anyway,
Did you know that it took a priest to explain to Einstein and the scientific community
that the whole universe had been created?


Trust In Jesus Only,
~Ren.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#32
#32
MahogonySnail said:
The bible nowhere explicitly says the earth is 6000 years old.
How do we explain the dating methods which prove that the earth is much older?
Click to expand...
They all prove false under scrutiny.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#33
#33
dodolah said:
in my limited mind as a human being, are you guys refering to this verse:
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day..." (2Peter 3:8,10).

Hence, the conclusion of earth is created in 6000 years ago..
Click to expand...
Using a passage in Greek to try to explain a word in Hebrew is horrible hermeneutics. A day is a day, a literal 24 hour day. A day is not a thousand years. If it were, then the Jews were told to work for 6 thousand years and take a thousand years off.... 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex 20:11
 
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Shawn

Guest
#34
#34
MahogonySnail said:
For example ,when they discovered the world's oldest living tree in Sweden and dated it to be nearly 10,000 years old, that alone is 4000 years older than 6000 years. Can science be wrong about that?
Click to expand...
Can science be wrong about that? Possibly. It's not like science has never been wrong before. Everytime I hear this Young Earth/ Old Earth debate I always think of something. If you could travel back in time and take a doctor/scientist with you and see Adam when he is only 2 days old, how old would you guess him to be if you didn't know who he was? Probably somewhere between 20-30, and the doctor would confirm using good science that he's at least a 20 year old adult male. Yet he was 2 days old. So as far as I know, God made that tree huge and full in one day and that alone would throw off any dating method.

But with that said....I don't think the Earth is that young. Like you said, the Bible doesn't date the Earth as 6000 years old. That' a theory that doesn't have to necessarily be true and there's lots of reasons to think it's not. But I also don't know if science's modern dates for the age of the earth are correct either. People hold to those things with a religious like faith too. Science might change the date tomorrow as new things are discovered. It might be older than they think or it might be younger. Ultimately I don't really care. I know God created it all and that's good enough for me! I'll ask God how old it is when I go to see Him one day.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#35
#35
Shawn said:
Can science be wrong about that? Possibly. It's not like science has never been wrong before. Everytime I hear this Young Earth/ Old Earth debate I always think of something. If you could travel back in time and take a doctor/scientist with you and see Adam when he is only 2 days old, how old would you guess him to be if you didn't know who he was? Probably somewhere between 20-30, and the doctor would confirm using good science that he's at least a 20 year old adult male. Yet he was 2 days old. So as far as I know, God made that tree huge and full in one day and that alone would throw off any dating method.

But with that said....I don't think the Earth is that young. Like you said, the Bible doesn't date the Earth as 6000 years old. That' a theory that doesn't have to necessarily be true and there's lots of reasons to think it's not. But I also don't know if science's modern dates for the age of the earth are correct either. People hold to those things with a religious like faith too. Science might change the date tomorrow as new things are discovered. It might be older than they think or it might be younger. Ultimately I don't really care. I know God created it all and that's good enough for me! I'll ask God how old it is when I go to see Him one day.
Click to expand...
If the earth is old, then the Bible is wrong, because it has genealogies that come to about 4000 years B.C. Those pointless genealogies we read that put us to sleep have a purpose, and that's a major one.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#36
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#36
Mahogany,

As you noted the OLDEST tree estimates about 10k years. This is actually reasonably close to biblical dating, more so than the evolutionary model of millions of years.

Let us just suppose that such trees were put in place AT creation... survived the flood and have continued to live. How old did they APPEAR to be when created. I mean, Adam was a full grown man of apparent age the moment he was created.
Click to expand...

Yes , the oldest living tree, which is remarkable that it survived Noah's flood etc. I think billions of years figures are quoted about other things are rediculous. There's problems with counting tree rings and carbon dating anyway in the assumptions they make. They could be 4000 years in error. Although some people groups such as the aboriginals of Australia are thought to be 40,000 years old so I don't know. It leaves some room for the bible genealogies to be inaccurate and yet be young enough for no one to claim that evolution is possible. It's quite possible that the genealogies in the bible are not complete. I mean, whole generations might have been skipped , there could be gaps in the record. That might blow it out to be about 10,000 years.
 
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Baptistrw

Guest
#37
#37
MahogonySnail said:
Yes , the oldest living tree, which is remarkable that it survived Noah's flood etc. I think billions of years figures are quoted about other things are rediculous. There's problems with counting tree rings and carbon dating anyway in the assumptions they make. They could be 4000 years in error. Although some people groups such as the aboriginals of Australia are thought to be 40,000 years old so I don't know. It leaves some room for the bible genealogies to be inaccurate and yet be young enough for no one to claim that evolution is possible. It's quite possible that the genealogies in the bible are not complete. I mean, whole generations might have been skipped , there could be gaps in the record. That might blow it out to be about 10,000 years.
Click to expand...
If that's the case the Bible is wrong. I'll believe the Bible and 6000 years.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#38
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#38
If the earth is old, then the Bible is wrong, because it has genealogies that come to about 4000 years B.C. Those pointless genealogies we read that put us to sleep have a purpose, and that's a major one.
Click to expand...
Actually, if the earth is old, then "your interpretation of the Bible is wrong", the bible is never wrong. The purpose of the genealogies in the bible was not so that we thousands of years later could prove to evolutionists that the earth is 6000 years old. In the bible Moses and others never used the genealogies to prove or date anything. I think they knew and saw the genealogies as being incomplete. Certainly, the genealogy in Matthew is incomplete for example, because it was an acceptable custom to leave our some ancestors. The same could have been done for the old testament genealogies, or they didn't completely know the full ancestral tree. And if some of those ancestors happened to live 1000 years, that explains 1000 year gaps.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#39
#39
Concerning the genealogies... those in Genesis 5 and 9 are not like others in the rest of the Bible. These carry us specifically from creation to the flood without a gap; from the flood to Abraham without a gap.

Each of these is also an explicitly detailed CHRONOLOGY. It was intentional. God has spoken very clearly for those with the will to believe his Word rather than the theories of unbelievers.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#40
#40
The Bible is a statement of absolute truth from an infinite being who cannot be wrong and who never lies.

Science on the other hand is always only tentative. It draws probabilities from theories based on tests with limited information and mere human observation and interpretation.
 
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