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Thread: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

  1. #1
    Knightjester
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    Default CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    How did the universe come to exist?
    How big is the universe?
    Is it possible for a simple single cell life form to evolve into a complex intelligent being?
    If there's no scientific evidence yet to support the theory of evolution, why Darwin's face is still on the cover on most of the curriculums?
    Can Faith and Science work together side-by-side? I'm not talking about Tom Cruise here, lol.

    These are just a few questions that still spinning on our head.


    The BIG BANG
    A name for the wrong reasons
    by Ren

    Albert Einstein added an equation, the "cosmological constant" that works like elastic force to keep the universe from overall expansion or contraction, but Abbe Georges Lemaitre, a Christian astronomer, put aside Einstein's "rubber-band force" and worked on the mathematical model of the expanding universe. In Lemaitre's mind, the universe was growing bigger, and if so, then the universe has to be bit-by-bit smaller back in time, and would have been at its dot-size kinda tiny thingy.

    Believing this, Lemaitre worked on his "primeval atom" theory which later on was supported by Hubble's observation using the Doppler effect, and proved that the universe was expanding!
    Lemaitre had found the universe created by God as "primeval atom": In the beginning!

    Fred Hoyle, a physicist atheist, mocked Lemaitre's theory on a radio broadcast:
    "If the universe began with a hot Big Bang,.. find me the fossil of this Big Bang."
    The name Hoyle used to mock this theory has been stuck ever since. Oh the irony.

    According to KJ, he's just trying to show how Faith and Science can coexist, that's all.
    Ok, I leave some room for you guys, lol, sorry about that.

    God bless us all - Amen!

  2. #2
    lil-rush
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Big Bang Theory makes no sense to me. The theory of evolution does. Not all of it, but parts of it. microevolution if you will. Macroevolution I find hard to believe, but if it were guided by God's hand it could be possible. However, I think that Biblically macroevolution isn't possible. Macroevolution would require death to have happened millions and millions of years before Original Sin and there was no death before Original Sin.

    I'm not quite sure if you wanted your questions answered, but I would like to say there is scientific evidence that proves the theory of evolution. There is no scientific evidence that proves evolution is true however.

  3. #3
    Senior Member NoahsDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Nature can create fascinating patterns - snowflakes,
    sand dunes, crystals, stalagmites and stalactites. Tornados
    and turbulence and cloud formations.

    But non-living things cannot create language. They
    *cannot* create codes. Rocks cannot think and they
    cannot talk. And they cannot create information.

    It is believed by some that life on planet earth arose
    accidentally from the "primordial soup," the early ocean which
    produced enzymes and eventually RNA, DNA, and primitive cells.

    But there is still a problem with this theory: It fails to
    answer the question, 'Where did the information come from?'

    DNA is not merely a molecule. Nor is it simply a "pattern."
    Yes, it contains chemicals and proteins, but those chemicals
    are arranged to form an intricate language, in the exact same way
    that English and Chinese and HTML are languages.

    DNA has a four-letter alphabet, and structures very similar
    to words, sentences and paragraphs. With very precise
    instructions and systems that check for errors and correct them.

    To the person who says that life arose naturally,
    you need only ask: "Where did the information come from?
    Show me just ONE example of a language that didn't come
    from a mind."

  4. #4
    Senior Member NoahsDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    100 years ago, Albert Einstein published
    three papers that rocked the world. These papers
    proved the existence of the atom, introduced the
    theory of relativity, and described quantum
    mechanics.

    Pretty good debut for a 26 year old scientist, huh?

    His equations for relativity indicated that the universe
    was expanding. This bothered him, because if it was
    expanding, it must have had a beginning and a beginner.
    Since neither of these appealed to him, Einstein introduced
    a 'fudge factor' that ensured a 'steady state' universe,
    one that had no beginning or end.

    But in 1929, Edwin Hubble showed that the furthest
    galaxies were fleeing away from each other, just as the
    Big Bang model predicted. So in 1931, Einstein embraced
    what would later be known as the Big Bang theory, saying,
    "This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation
    of creation to which I have ever listened." He referred
    to the 'fudge factor' to achieve a steady-state universe
    as the biggest blunder of his career.


    Einstein's theories have been thoroughly proved and
    verified by experiments and measurements. But there's
    an even more important implication of Einstein's discovery.
    Not only does the universe have a beginning, but time
    itself, our own dimension of cause and effect, began
    with the Big Bang.

    That's right -- time itself does not exist before
    then. The very line of time begins with that creation
    event. Matter, energy, time and space were created
    in an instant by an intelligence outside of space
    and time.

    About this intelligence, Albert Einstein wrote
    in his book "The World As I See It" that the harmony
    of natural law "Reveals an intelligence of such
    superiority that, compared with it, all the
    systematic thinking and acting of human beings is
    an utterly insignificant reflection."

    He went on to write, "Everyone who is seriously
    involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced
    that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe--
    a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in
    the face of which we with our modest powers must feel
    humble."

    Pretty significant statement, wouldn't you say?

  5. #5
    carpetman
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    After hearing what a doctor said about how the human body functions and how all the "cogs and sprockets"(vital organs)needed each other to function, I thought to myself how could anyone believe that we just evolved from a blob in a pond. Another good example is the watch the NG Planet Earth series there are too many things that only a Creator could do in our natural habitat. If men come from monkeys how come there arent any in the zoos?

  6. #6
    lil-rush
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    I really believe that micro evolution (if directed by God) could have been very possible. He could have worked out any of the kinks during the difficult stages. It is definitely within his means to do so. However, I don't believe in micro-evolution because there are too many inconsistancies between microevolution and the Bible. Most of which can be found in the first chapter of Genesis.

  7. #7
    Senior Member next_step's Avatar
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Mirco "evolution" is not just possible, it's proofen. Its observable and variation. Variaton is evident but that's not macro evoltion. This can never be proofen for it can never be observed. The bible is not compatible with macro evolution as wel..

  8. #8
    WhereToGo
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Yeah micro evolution, as it has become known, is simply species adapting to their environment, but staying the same species. This has been pretty well documented. I don't think there are any inconsistencies with the Bible and micro-evolution, at least not that I can find.

    Macro evolution... well, its laughable to me. We're supposed to believe that humans, with 46 chromosomes, are evolved from and more complex than apes, which have 48 chromosomes. How did we get better and more complex while dropping chromosomes? If macro evolution were true we should have somewhere between 52 and 58, depending on the theory, but not less.

  9. #9
    lil-rush
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    wow. major dumb moment there. I was thinking macroevolution, but I wrote microevolution. Hmm, odd.

  10. #10
    Liz_loves_Jesus
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Neither the 'Big Bang Theory' nor evolution make sense to me. If we all came from apes or whatever, how were those animals created in the first place? God being the creator is the only thing that makes sense to me, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

  11. #11
    Baptistrw
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    The Big Bang is the belief at all matter in the universe was squished into a small space. and exploded, and the dust that exploded from the small space became all the planets, stars, etc. Some text books actually say nothing exploded and became everything. Evolutio needs to be defined, there are 6 different types of evolution:

    Cosmic--origin of space, time, and matter
    Chemical--origins of elements
    Stellar--origin of stars and planets
    Organic--origin of life
    Macroevolution--animals change to different kinds if animals
    Microevolution--variation within the kind

    The last one is the only one that has any sort of factual evidence. But they use that one to try to prove the other 5.

  12. #12
    Baptistrw
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    How did the universe come to exist? God created it in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6 thousand years ago
    How big is the universe? No one really knows
    Is it possible for a simple single cell life form to evolve into a complex intelligent being? No.
    If there's no scientific evidence yet to support the theory of evolution, why Darwin's face is still on the cover on most of the curriculums? Because the only other possible theory is creation, which means the Bible must be allowed, which means Christianity is back in schools, and that's not an option.
    Can Faith and Science work together side-by-side? Yes, and they have for along time. The great fathers of modern science were Christians. e.g. Isaac Newton

  13. #13
    Senior Member carpetmanswife's Avatar
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    im certainly no bible scholar ,nor am i a scientist ,im a plain ol country girl . i just cant get passed the fact that looking at a beautiful new born baby , elephant, mountains, flowers ,the sun and moon..all came from a pile of muck!! naw just didnt happen! thats as scientifical * i know not a word* as i get lol
    Denise

  14. #14
    Slepsog4
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Evolution simply means change, usually meant as positive change.

    Micro-evolution is the recognition of changes within a species by which we get variations (ie. dogs... poodles, shepherds, terriers, etc.) Not only is it observed in nature but we use it in breeding and hybridization for certain characteristics.

    Macro-evolution is the THEORY that big changes can come about leading one species to become something else entirely. This has NEVER been observed. There is NOTHING in the fossil record to suggest that it ever has happened.

    The Bible says that God created everything and gave it the ability to reproduce after its kind. But we also see Jacob using breeding strategies to develop variations.

    The Theory of Evolution is a lie to mislead people. It is an effort to dismiss the notion of God.

  15. #15
    dodolah
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Let me first to say that this post is not meant to be sarcastic. But, this is a genuine legit questions from minds that need some clarification.
    to Baptistrw, Do you really believe 6000 years ago there is no life and there is no universe?
    I am a bit baffled by that.
    Does one become "less" christian if one believe that God created the world not 6000 years ago.. but perhaps, 65 billion years ago.

    Thanks.

  16. #16
    Baptistrw
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Quote Originally Posted by dodolah View Post
    Let me first to say that this post is not meant to be sarcastic. But, this is a genuine legit questions from minds that need some clarification.
    to Baptistrw, Do you really believe 6000 years ago there is no life and there is no universe?
    I am a bit baffled by that.
    Does one become "less" christian if one believe that God created the world not 6000 years ago.. but perhaps, 65 billion years ago.

    Thanks.
    Yes I do, because God says so. The baffling comes from modern "science" making false claims. You have to realize there was no time til God created it. If you deny the literal creation, you're picking and choosing what to believe in the Bible. Taking Genesis incorrectly ruins other passages that fall on Genesis.

  17. #17
    Slepsog4
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Does one become "less" christian if one believe that God created the world not 6000 years ago.. but perhaps, 65 billion years ago.
    If Genesis 1-3 are not true, when does God start telling the truth? The Scriptures say that God cannot lie. There is no reason to reject the young earth view based in Scripture unless one desires to compromise with atheistic evolutionists.

  18. #18
    Senior Member thefightinglamb's Avatar
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Baptist wrote:
    How did the universe come to exist? God created it in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6 thousand years ago
    How big is the universe? No one really knows
    Is it possible for a simple single cell life form to evolve into a complex intelligent being? No.
    If there's no scientific evidence yet to support the theory of evolution, why Darwin's face is still on the cover on most of the curriculums? Because the only other possible theory is creation, which means the Bible must be allowed, which means Christianity is back in schools, and that's not an option.
    Can Faith and Science work together side-by-side? Yes, and they have for along time. The great fathers of modern science were Christians. e.g. Isaac Newton

    Does the Old Testament say that "God created the world in six lieteral twenty four hour days about six thousand years ago." No it doesn't.

    It is very hard to impossible for us to understand the beginnings...Try thinking about the beginning of your own existence and it is very similiar.

    The sun and moon were not created on the first couple days, so I assume you go to the pulsating atoms that we get the 6 days, 24 hours from? Our understanding of time has evolved (no pun) intended...but we have measured time in different ways throughout the ages...And a day has always seemed to revolve around the sun and earths relationship and has not always been twenty four hours...So for God to say, on the first day we must understand something different...For in that first moment, change which allows us to measure time actually came into being...as Luther said what was God doing on the day before he created the world is useless--because there was no change...

    I watched something on PBS that showed how the atomic bomb was created that prooved that E=mc^2 and I finally understood what that equation meant--they actually were able to change a physical form into an energy by that equation, so much energy is released from a single little atom...not that this prooves the big bang which it doesn't.

    Evolution is false most obviously to me because it doen't and cannot explain why we as humans are separated enough from existence to understand it. (why we are formed in God's image) If evolution were true, then we would all me so enmeshed in it that we could not look back at the past or see what was true about our existence--this also means we couldn't lie...We are creatures that can come up with theories like evolution that though wrong explain how and why things are as they are...but evolution'is must obvious lie to me is that it jumps to the conclusion that we are part of it...not that other things are not lies as well, but this one is most obvious.

    God be with you all
    tony


    Genesis is very mysterious...
    tony

  19. #19
    Baptistrw
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    Quote Originally Posted by thefightinglamb View Post

    Does the Old Testament say that "God created the world in six lieteral twenty four hour days about six thousand years ago." No it doesn't.



    In 6 literal 24 hour days, yes... 6 thousand years ago, it takes having basic math skills to come up with that.

  20. #20
    Slepsog4
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    Default Re: CREATION vs EVOLUTION: Faith vs Science

    The genealogy of Genesis 5 goes from Adam down to Shem. The genealogy of Genesis 11:10ff goes from Shem to Abraham. The really critical factor is that these two genealogies are also chronologies. This very precise and detailed chronology gives us about 2,000 years from Adam to Abraham. Then we have another 2k years from Abraham to Christ. And of course here we are about 2k years removed from Christ.

    Matthew gives us a genealogy from Abraham to Jesus. Luke gives us a genealogy from Adam to Jesus.

    Even if one dares to suggest that there are missing generations in the Genesis accounts, 10 times would not get us to a number needed by evolutionists.

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