The Deadly Doctrines of Preterism

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prophecyman

Guest
#1
While there is many teachings (Doctrines) that advocate an interpretation and perception based on a systematic approach to scripture, yet it goes without saying that not all doctrines are supported in the original intent that God advocated them. But he (GOD) has confirmed the doctrine (teaching) from the begining to his holy Prophets and later to his Apostles and have done so throughout the ages, even to this present time.

We do well to reference the Word in regards to what the Scripture says concerning interpretation... II Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The message is clear that we can not rely entirely on our human intellect to interpret Gods word. To support this thesis, we do well to remember this exhortation found in 1st Corinthians 2:14... But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Another scripture advocates how we should approach the things (Word and power) of God... 2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. What they spoke, they also wrote to provide a future witness to the verity of the truth.

Gods word is God breathed through his Holy Spirit. Psa. 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (Spirit) of his mouth. Heb.11:3... Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 2 Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water.

I believe that this is the very foundation of the faith, that we understand that Gods word is inspired by his Holy Spirit. 1st Tim.4:1...Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. More than ever before we must guard our souls from false teaching.

This long introduction was necessary to provide a foundational understanding of the subject so described by the title of this thread, and to establish the truth that Gods word is its own best interpeter.

WHAT IS PRETERISM

Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible, especially Daniel and Revelation, as events which have already happened in the first century A.D. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is listed in Webster's 1913 dictionary as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond," signifying that either all or a majority of Bible prophecy was fulfilled by AD 70. Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Source: Wikipedia

The preterists chiefly spiritualizes the scriptures, this is the core that is central to their teachings and the basis for interpretation. They advocate that many of the prophecies are already fulfilled, like the 1000 year reign of Christ and the emphasis is that we are already ruling with Christ on earth through the Spirit that has been given us, being the kingdom of God within.

From the book "Hope" Dr. David K. Bernard writes this observation on Preterism... Preterism is an interpretation of end-time prophecy. According to this, most, if not all passages of scripture that conservative Christians generally regard as end-time prophecies, including the book of Revelation, were fulfilled as of the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. End quote.

Problems and Concerns

From a biblical perspective, there is serious flaws with both full preterism and partial preterism. David K. Bernard writes: The allegorical interpretation of scripture. Christians should use the grammatical-historical metod of interpreting scripture. End quote.

We should caution ourselves with the so-called new revelations of those who advocate special knowlede and insight, for we ought to rightly divide the word by measuring the validity or trufulness of the doctrine being taught. We should all search the scriptures daily to confirm the things which we have heard, whether true or false, God requires due diligence in pursuing the truth and allowing the Spirit of the Truth to speak to us through the Word.

The problem with Preterism is it comes in many forms, such as, the spiritualization of scripture which includes... A day is not a Day, 1000 years is not 1000 years but is figurative. The ressurection has already been fulfilled and we sit in heavenly places in Christ, the kingdom is now and has already been fulfilled, also included in this preception is the notion that the gifts of God are past, and many such like things do they teach. The Apostle Paul was confronted with a form of preterism when he came to knowledge that there was those who were teaching that the ressurection is already past, causing some to lose hope.

In any case the nature of this beastly devil is to distract from the plain and easy interpretation of Gods simple truth, appealing to the natural man a new revelation or special insight, as always we should have our guards up and defend the Faith of Christ as was taught in first centuries of the Church. Let us therefore defend the Faith that was once delivered to the saints.





 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#2
" the spiritualization of scripture which includes..."

such as a generation is not a generation?

Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Mark 13:30
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Luke 21:32
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#3
Wow. I think there is much misunderstanding and conflating of preterism going on here.

Full/hyper/-preterism is considered heresy by most Christians, even partial preterists.

There are some well respected teachers who are preterists and they're not considered heretics.

R.C Sproul. Hank Hanegraff. Gary Demar. Kenneth Gentry.

In your post you say...

The problem with Preterism is it comes in many forms, such as, the spiritualization of scripture which includes..

A day is not a Day,

1000 years is not 1000 years but is figurative.

The ressurection has already been fulfilled and we sit in heavenly places in Christ,

the kingdom is now and has already been fulfilled,

also included in this preception is the notion that the gifts of God are past,

and many such like things do they teach. The Apostle Paul was confronted with a form of preterism when he came to knowledge that there was those who were teaching that the ressurection is already past, causing some to lose hope.

A day is not a Day,

This is in reference to Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, (KJV)

So if you take days as literal, this is speaking of 70 literal weeks. There are 7 days in a week, so that means this is referencing 490 literal days.

I'm sorry but all bible end times interpretations I've read view this as lasting more than 490 days!

In other words no known interpretation of that takes it as literal days. So I guess they're all in error?

1000 years is not 1000 years but is figurative.


If we're gonna take 1000 as literal does that mean this covenant ends after 1000 generations?

1 Chronicles 16:15, “Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;”

If you take 1000 as always literal, then God doesn't own the cattle on the 1001st hill.

Psalms 50:10, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.”


The ressurection has already been fulfilled and we sit in heavenly places in Christ,


The Bible teaches that people will live on the Earth after the first resurrection, before the second one. Tribulation saints rise from the dead.

Revelation 20

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.



the kingdom is now and has already been fulfilled,


Yeah these are called full/hyper preterists. They're considered heretics. They also call themselsves fulfilled eschatology.

also included in this preception is the notion that the gifts of God are past,


Umm...there are non-preterists who believe this too. Many baptists who buy into dispensationalism are also cessationists.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#4
Oh and that is probably the longest entry I will ever post.

All but the Bible and quotes of the OP are my own content. In other words I didn't go somewhere and simply post a long wall of someone else's text. Homey don't play that.
 
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prophecyman

Guest
#5
I take it that you have leanings in this direction? Some points that you brought out are valid, but I am actually referencing the blanket interpetation to those scriptures that should be plain to understand, and there are many examples.

As far as the copied text, none other than the wikipedia and the quotes from Mr. Bernard are utilized to make a point. The rest of the text is my own. On some points you raised, I respectfully agree to disagree.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#6
I take it that you have leanings in this direction? Some points that you brought out are valid, but I am actually referencing the blanket interpetation to those scriptures that should be plain to understand, and there are many examples.

As far as the copied text, none other than the wikipedia and the quotes from Mr. Bernard are utilized to make a point. The rest of the text is my own. On some points you raised, I respectfully agree to disagree.
Yes I am a preterist. I feel that preterist take the Bible more literally than most.

We take the prosaic and epistle portions of scripture and interpret them with more literalism than most. We take the parts with poetic language and find the truth behind the poetic language. For example, Jesus the lamb of God. He's not a literal lamb. That's a figurative way to describe a truth.

I feel non-preterists flip the Bible upside down.

They take the parts that are prosaic and epistle like, and don't interpret them literally.

For example, written 1900ish years ago to 7 churches, John wrote in revelation...


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Preterists believe God meant to communicate soon and near to them as soon and near!

But non-preterists, who always claim to take everything as literal, they take this portion of scripture as non-literal. Even though this part of Revelation is prosaic and epistle like!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#7
.

The message is clear that we can not rely entirely on our human intellect to interpret Gods word. To support this thesis, we do well to remember this exhortation found in 1st Corinthians 2:14... But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



WHAT IS PRETERISM


The preterists chiefly spiritualizes the scriptures,
Seems to me it is pretty well in-line with the teaching of 1Corinthians 2:14, wouldn't you say?

Gods Word is amazing. It is obvious that the scripture should be interpreted spiritually, most times. The Kingdom of God is spiritual in nature. Surely His book is trying to describe that to us...
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#8
Is this in reference to a literal dragon that is going to stand on a seashore? Is this in reference to a literal beast coming out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads?

If you don't view this as literal you might be a preterist!
Revelation 13

1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the [a]seashore.
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” 5 There was given to him a mouth speaking [c]arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who [d]dwell in heaven.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#9

Gods Word is amazing. It is obvious that the scripture should be interpreted spiritually, most times. The Kingdom of God is spiritual in nature. Surely His book is trying to describe that to us...
i think scripture should be interpreted literally first and foremost...and then any spiritual meaning you find afterwards should not contradict the literal meaning...
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
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#10
Where's that Extra Strength Tylenol...I think I'm gonna need it.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#11
Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Why do you think He did this?
 
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prophecyman

Guest
#12
Is this in reference to a literal dragon that is going to stand on a seashore? Is this in reference to a literal beast coming out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads?

If you don't view this as literal you might be a preterist!
Revelation 13

1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the [a]seashore.
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” 5 There was given to him a mouth speaking [c]arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who [d]dwell in heaven.


Much of the symbolism is so described as "dark sayings". There is a difference in spiritualizing the scripture versus the prophetic language of the prophets that speaks the mysteries of God.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#13
Much of the symbolism is so described as "dark sayings". There is a difference in spiritualizing the scripture versus the prophetic language of the prophets that speaks the mysteries of God.
Preterists don't spiritualize the prophetic parts of scripture! They see the symbolism and pull out the truth.

It's actually the non-preterists who take the symbolic and turn it literal and the literal and turn it symbolic.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#14
Prophecy man how much source material have you read on preterism? I mean how much content written by a preterist have you read?

I've read 10 books by preterists, listened to many hours of video and audio and the like. I spent many years studying the whole futurist pre tri rapture left behind view of things too.

I ask, because I wanna make sure you know what you're talking about.
 
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prophecyman

Guest
#15
Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Why do you think He did this?
I think the Master could best explain it when he said: If you can not understand heavenly things, then how will you understand if I tell you of earthly things.

He also said that the things of the kingdom was not given to them, but to you (Apostles and disciples) they are given.

It seems that God opens the understanding to the scriptures to whom he has chosen, for he reveals his secrets to his servants.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#16
I think the Master could best explain it when he said: If you can not understand heavenly things, then how will you understand if I tell you of earthly things.

He also said that the things of the kingdom was not given to them, but to you (Apostles and disciples) they are given.

It seems that God opens the understanding to the scriptures to whom he has chosen, for he reveals his secrets to his servants.
Yes, absolutely. I think you have the heavenly things and earthly things backward, too...
 
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prophecyman

Guest
#17
Prophecy man how much source material have you read on preterism? I mean how much content written by a preterist have you read?

I've read 10 books by preterists, listened to many hours of video and audio and the like. I spent many years studying the whole futurist pre tri rapture left behind view of things too.

I ask, because I wanna make sure you know what you're talking about.
Its common sense reasoning that you can not spiritualize all scripture, or take a literal approach to all scripture. The emphasis has to do with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the interpretation of a word or phrase.

To understand true end-time prophecy requires a extensive knowledge of the 7 appointed times of the Lord (feast days). by which Christ has fulfilled 4 and three yet remain to be fulfilled. Also I advocate in really paying attention to Christ, as he taught his Apostles and disciples the signs recorded in the 24th chapter of Matthew.
The signs are very specific and if we understand them in sequence, then we would have a better grasp of what to expect in the future tense of what the scriptures really convey.

It is evident that the sun has not darken nor the moon withdrawed its light, for that sign must precede the coming of the Lord, also known as the day of the Lords wrath.

AS it was in the days of Noah, as it was in the days of Lot... Noah and his family were saved, but the wicked were swept away, the ark of safety lifted them up above the water, while the same water destroyed the wicked. Before God could rain fire on the cities of Sodom and Gommorah he sent two of his Angels to remove Lot and his family to safety. And so in the ressurection God will send his holy Angels to gather his elect ( Redeemed) from under the whole heaven. As it was in the days of!!!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#18
To understand true end-time prophecy requires a extensive knowledge of the 7 appointed times of the Lord (feast days). by which Christ has fulfilled 4 and three yet remain to be fulfilled. Also I advocate in really paying attention to Christ, as he taught his Apostles and disciples the signs recorded in the 24th chapter of Matthew.
The signs are very specific and if we understand them in sequence, then we would have a better grasp of what to expect in the future tense of what the scriptures really convey.

It is evident that the sun has not darken nor the moon withdrawed its light, for that sign must precede the coming of the Lord, also known as the day of the Lords wrath.
which of the seven feasts were fulfilled already and which ones aren't yet?

what jesus taught about the end time is easier for me to figure out than revelation...but certain things like the millennium do not seem to fit into jesus' teaching...

also the sun and moon are darkened every time there is an eclipse or a big fire or volcanic eruption...
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#19
Yes, absolutely. I think you have the heavenly things and earthly things backward, too...
yeah....

i am tempted to comment but I will be nice and just post scripture instead.....

John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
 
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prophecyman

Guest
#20
which of the seven feasts were fulfilled already and which ones aren't yet?

what jesus taught about the end time is easier for me to figure out than revelation...but certain things like the millennium do not seem to fit into jesus' teaching...

also the sun and moon are darkened every time there is an eclipse or a big fire or volcanic eruption...

Jesus fulfilled these feast days.

1. Passover...He as the Lamb of God was crucified on the very day of passover.
2. Feast of unleavened bread... As he broke the bread he symbolized it as his body, Jews by tradition hide three pieces of flat bread on which the Children seek to find, curiously the bread appears to be bruised by the burn marks on the high points of the bread, you can easily see the connection here.
3. Feast of first fruits, Jesus is the first fruits from among the dead, he is also the resurrection and power, when he arose others arose, these are the first fruits of the resurrection and they are holy unto the Lord.
4. Feast of Pentecost as was fulfilled by Christ by sending the promise of the Father on that very feast day.

The feast days that are yet to be fulfilled are...

1. Trumpets... remember the events as recorded in the Revelation, and remember that Paul said that the return of Christ was at the last trump.
2. Atonement... this is both the day of redemption and judgment.
3. Tabernacles... this is where he will set up his kingdom on earth and shall require the first born male out of every nation to come up to Jerusalem once a year to worship the Lord, if they do not, then the Lord will not send his rain on their land, this is what the Prophets taught, and the feast of tabernacles will once again be in force and required by Jesus. He comes to tabernacle with men once more by reigning on the Earth.