SOMETHING YOU SHOULD ALL KNOW

journey41 · Dec 3, 2011

Satan was kicked out of heaven after Christ's death & resurrection. He was not bound.

WHEN EXACTLY WAS SATAN KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN?

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour

John 12:28 Father, glofity thy name: Then came there a voice from heaven saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 12:29 The people thereof that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

John 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

John 12:31 NOW IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THIS WORLD: NOW SHALL THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD BE CAST OUT

Just before Jesus was taken to be crucified, he stated the above. This is when Satan and his angels were CAST out of heaven.

Satan and his angels were never cast out of heaven before this...like in the beginning when Adam and Eve were created....they had full access to heaven, but left their habitation (heaven) to corrupt man on earth, and are still doing it.

How do we know this?...read Job 1:6-7 Satan was there amongst the angels during a meeting in heaven....read what God asked him?

SATAN KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN BUT NOT BOUND...YET

Why was Satan so angry? Because Jesus conquered death, and cast him and his angels out.....

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up to God, and to his throne (resurrection)

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (saints go into hiding, meeting with each other in secret & being taught the gospel)

Rev 12:7 And there was WAR in HEAVEN Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels.

Rev 12:8 And prevailed not (cas out) neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come Salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev 12:11 ....and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb..

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them (host of heaven) WOE to the INHABITERS of the EARTH and of the sea for the DEVIL is come down unto you having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (till he's locked bound in prison)

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto to the EARTH, he persecuted the woman (Zion/Gods church) which brought forth the man Child (Christ)

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make WAR with the REMNANT of HER SEED, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is proof that Satan was not bound. He came down having great wrath and persecuted the woman.

So we learn, that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven after Christ's resurrection, and not bound, but cast to the earth to persecute Gods followers who have the testimony of Jesus Christ (saints)

You discern the truth. You.

journey41 · Dec 3, 2011

[

John 12:31 NOW IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THIS WORLD: NOW SHALL THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD BE CAST OUT

Sorry this looks wrong the way I worded it.

Just to clarify, Jesus stated just before his death
" Now is the judgement of this world, Now shall the prince of this world be cast out"

Satan was not cast out right at that moment, but Jesus was telling us that Satans time was up...going back and forth, in and out of heaven.....because the crucifixion was about to happen.

It might sound strange, Satan having access to heaven, but he corrupted a third of the angels, and their domain was heaven. Did he corrupt them all at once? We dont know, because a third of the angels in heaven is an awful lot of angels.

How many angels are there?
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands. You do the math....

10,000 x 10,000 = 100,000,000 (one hundred million!)
plus thousands of thousands? (thousands x thousands)
= I dont know, my calculator doesn't hold that many numbers!

so even if we just divided 100,000,000 by a third we get
333,000,000 (three hundred and thirty three million)
(but the figure to begin with was more before they were cast out)

In other words, there are a lot of Gods angels around, and a lot of fallen angels here on earth going about their evil business.

Thats an awful lot of devils.

Raistlin · Dec 3, 2011

journey41 said:

[

John 12:31 NOW IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THIS WORLD: NOW SHALL THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD BE CAST OUT

Sorry this looks wrong the way I worded it.

Just to clarify, Jesus stated just before his death
" Now is the judgement of this world, Now shall the prince of this world be cast out"

Satan was not cast out right at that moment, but Jesus was telling us that Satans time was up...going back and forth, in and out of heaven.....because the crucifixion was about to happen.

It might sound strange, Satan having access to heaven, but he corrupted a third of the angels, and their domain was heaven. Did he corrupt them all at once? We dont know, because a third of the angels in heaven is an awful lot of angels.

How many angels are there?
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands. You do the math....

10,000 x 10,000 = 100,000,000 (one hundred million!)
plus thousands of thousands? (thousands x thousands)
= I dont know, my calculator doesn't hold that many numbers!

so even if we just divided 100,000,000 by a third we get
333,000,000 (three hundred and thirty three million)
(but the figure to begin with was more before they were cast out)

In other words, there are a lot of Gods angels around, and a lot of fallen angels here on earth going about their evil business.

Thats an awful lot of devils.

I worked out once before over 100 trillion give or take.
And a third are fallen with Satan.
Divided by 7 billion humans, thats nearly 10 fallen angels to every one person by memory.
Thats a lot.
And yes i agree, Satans access to heaven was stopped at Christs resurrection.

Good post.

journey41 · Dec 3, 2011

Raistlin said:

Wow, thats an awful lot of devils, and they are running amok.

mpaper345 · Dec 3, 2011

Satan is not bound in the bottomless pit,and has not been bound in the bottomless pit,but in Revelation 12 it is not Satan being kicked out of heaven after Jesus resurrected,but Satan being kicked out of heaven halfway through the tribulation period.

The clouds above us is considered heaven,and Satan was kicked out of heaven where God dwells by God,and Satan is the prince of the power of the air,considered heaven.

After the 6th trumpet God said that people will still not repent of their sins,and still trying to solve their own problems on earth,at that time by way of a one world government,so God gives them the antichrist to rule over them,and Satan is kicked out of heaven by the angels and appears as the beast.

When Satan was kicked out of heaven he was not cast to earth,but is the prince of the power of the air.When Satan gets cast to earth in Revelation 12 it means he is in the physical realm,and appears as the beast,in which the devils make physical war with the saints by way of deceived people,where now Satan only tempts,but when Satan is cast to earth he makes physical war worldwide against the saints.

That is why the crowns are on the 7 heads in Revelation 12,showing Satan in the spiritual realm,deceiving the world by way of the world powers that have been on earth,and the crowns are on the 10 horns in chapter 13 showing Satan in the physical realm making war by the man of sin and the world,and the world becomes the habitation of devils,for the earth becomes their holding cell.

Satan is still the prince of the power of the earth and is limited in deceiving how he wants to deceive,and not cast to earth yet where he will not be hindered to deceive the world,and that is why the beast system happens because Satan is not hindered to deceive at that time.

Revelation 12

1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

I believe the woman refers to Israel,Jerusalem,who is the mother of us all,Jacob,Leah and Rachael,and the 12 sons,the twelve tribes of Israel.

2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The savior Jesus came from the nation of Israel.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The other great wonder is Satan who is opposed to the woman,Israel,for salvation is of the Jews.

The crowns are on the 7 heads,which means Satan working in the spiritual realm deceiving people.

In chapter 13,the crowns are on the horns meaning Satan working in the physical realm deceiving people.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Lucifer caused one third of the angels to rebel against God,and is in opposition to Jesus,and trying to stop the salvation of God to mankind.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Jesus was resurrected to heaven,and will come back and rule in the millennial reign of Christ,on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The woman is protected from any trouble by way of the 7 years peace treaty for 3 and one half years,the first half of the 7 years period.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Some people believe this to be a war that took place before the creation of this world,but I believe this war will happen halfway through the tribulation period,because after the 6th trumpet,the world will still not turn to God and repent of their evil ways,and still go about trying to solve their own problems,so God gives them the antichrist.

Satan deceives people in the spiritual realm through nations and people,and when Satan is cast to earth,it becomes his holding cell,and Satan will deceive the world in the physical realm as the beast,who is a man claiming to be God,who will be deceived more than any other man in history.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The dragon and his angels are cast to earth and Satan appears as the antichrist,and will cause chaos,as he plucks up by the roots 3 horns of the 10 horn kingdom,the world divided in to 10 sections,and causes all who oppose his system to be done away with,and to deceive them spiritually,and the Bible says the last king by peace shall destroy many.

The devil is mad for he knows he has a short time and will be punished,and he goes to destroy as many people physically and and to deceive them spiritually.

13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The antichrist will persecute Israel because he hates Jesus and His salvation for mankind.

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The nation of Israel is protected for three and one half years from being attacked,the last half of the 7 years period,until the antichrist and the world attacks her after the 7 years period,in which God said He is going to gather all nations together against Israel,and then fight those nations,and until then God will make sure she is not attacked.

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The dragon will make war with the woman,but not by way of physically attacking Israel,but by way of attacking the Christians,both Jew and Gentile,which the Bible says salvation is of the Jews and the Gentiles were brought in to that salvation,and the Bible says the last king will destroy the mighty and holy people.

sonnyd · Dec 3, 2011

Lu 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

The one question I have, If Jesus, while he was alive on earth, saw Satan fall from heaven, was he speaking of a
past event or was it a prophecy of a future event?

AnandaHya · Dec 3, 2011

sonnyd said:

Past event because of these verses:

the kingdom of God is not of this world, this world will be destroyed.

why do people keep trying to make spiritual things carnal and Heavenly things Earthly?

2knowhim · Dec 3, 2011

Yes Ananda,

That's right,..........Because of the preaching of Seventy, the demons were cast out of the people.
That's exactly how satan falls,..... And is bound,..... By the Truth of the Gospel.

They were Healed.
And Jesus rejoiced in Spirit.

sonnyd · Dec 3, 2011

AnandaHya said:

If it was a past event, when do you think that event happened? Was it before God made man or if
you believe in the Gap Theory was it during the Ice Age, etc? Maybe there is no answer available.

Job 38:4
¶ Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

God ask Job where he was when he laid the foundations of the earth. It could not have been before that because Satan and those that fought with him was cast to the earth. Yet Satan was in the garden to tempt Eve.

Just some questions for you to think about

journey41 · Dec 3, 2011

[

I can see what you are trying to say, because the three and a half years is putting you in the tribulation period...

But it does say in verse 5, that her man child was caught up to heaven (resurrection)

and because the Word had to survive and spread, and Satan going after Christ's followers with great fury through the Romans and Jews.....they had to keep their meetings hush hush and meet in secret or they were killed too. This is that short period, where God protected them so they could learn off the appostles and the truth could live on and continue throughout all the next generations.

The wilderness is the world. Like a jungle. God kept them safe from predators.

So this is a little insight.
V5 Christ crucified/resurrected...
V6 his flock goes into hiding and they stay there for 3 1/2 years from the authorities...and are being fed the scriptures protected by God.
V7 War in heaven
Michael and his angels fight Satan and his angels.
V8 They loose, Christ and his angels have victory. They get cast out
V9 Now it says where the dragon and his angels were cast to the earth.

V16 This could be the when the two witnessess come, last three and a half years of the tribulation?

V17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I dont see Air as being heaven, I see it as being invisible here on earth. Working behind the scenes, planning scheming. We breathe air, he's here.; No air out in the universe.

Yes, but not in this order

Satan never appears in the physical realm. He is in the spiritual realm here on earth, in the air (invisible)
Satan does not appear as the beast, but he chooses a man and gives him all his power and dangles him like a puppet. This man (false prophet, really thinks he's a God with all this power he's got)

The 7 heads are the 7 major empires (through God's eyes)
From the first empire Egypt
right through to the last empire. This last empire (head) has 10 crowns on it, so this last empire consists of 10 kings. This is the new world order (first beast rising out of the sea) and this beast paves the way for the false prophet to emerge from. He will lead this 10 horned beast, and in Daniel you can get clarity.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them (next beast rising out of the earth Rev 13:11)

He's not limited one bit. He's going full force now. Decieving all the people with his false prophet who is performing the miracles, and persecuting christians. He's not bound yet. But the true christians won't be decieved, because they read the scriptures and will identify him in a second and not take his mark, or fall for his deciets.

This woman is picturing Zion. God's spiritual city (kingdom) The world belongs to Satans city (Babylon the great/kingdom) The moon is under this woman's feet, so she is not touching the earth. This woman (Zion) is spiritual/heavenly) and she is waiting to give birth to her child (Christ), and the devil wants to kill him as soon as he's born, so this represents travailing in birth, going through labour pangs before he is born (fleeing from Herod)

I believe the 12 stars does however represent the 12 appostles, for they will be great in the kingdom.

Yes, he did come from Israel, but more to the point, He is from Zion, God's spiritual city, and Christ will lead Zion.

Now this is different from Rev 13 - the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, and 10 crowns. This beast has 7 heads and 7 crowns. Do you know what this means?

Satan hates Zion. The world hates Israel because God put it in their hearts only to serve his purpose of Israel going through chastisement, then recieving mercy when all is done. Remember what Israel said when they crucified our Lord?

Matt 27:25 Then asnwered all the people, and said "His blood be on us, and on our children"

It means 7 empires that Satan has controlled.

The crowns represents kings. Kings wear crowns.

Do you see something here? Satan's tail drew a third of the angels, and Satan cast them to the earth. In verse 9 Satan was cast out by God.

Yes

Agreed!

History

journey41 · Dec 3, 2011

sonnyd said:

[/QUOTE]Future, because Jesus was still alive. Jesus knows everything that will happen right up to the end and beyond. He is the Word of God.
So it was to happen shortly, for Christ's crucifixion was around the corner, and this is when it happened.

Raistlin · Dec 3, 2011

2knowhim said:

Not so.
Rev 20 gives the answer :

1 > And i saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 >And he laid hold on the Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.

So an angel bounds Satan, not Christians, but an angel.
Scripture is clear on this.

2knowhim · Dec 3, 2011

Yes, Scripture is Clear on this,
It's your understanding of them that is not.

I've already explained what that is all about in another
thread.

TRUTH is what binds Satan, The Seal is The Holy Spirit
Which is the Spirit of TRUTH.

This happened first in Christ, and now because of what He did
It happens within His people, on a daily basis.

It is the Carnal mind in man that Satan has control over,
But once you here The Truth of the Gospel he is cast out
and bound.

The Carnal mind is DEATH
which Christ came to destroy,
Satan who had the power of Death

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Raistlin · Dec 3, 2011

2knowhim said:

Yes, Scripture is Clear on this,
It's your understanding of them that is not.

I've already explained what that is all about in another
thread.

TRUTH is what binds Satan, The Seal is The Holy Spirit
Which is the Spirit of TRUTH.

This happened first in Christ, and now because of what He did
It happens within His people, on a daily basis.

It is the Carnal mind in man that Satan has control over,
But once you here The Truth of the Gospel he is cast out
and bound.

The Carnal mind is DEATH
which Christ came to destroy,
Satan who had the power of Death

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Lofty reply, but still wrong.
Self interpretation is your error.
Check out Peter t's reply.
That will open your eyes a little more.

AnandaHya · Dec 3, 2011

sonnyd said:

It is known that Jesus freed people from sin and its power and that Satan used sin to put people into bondage

Raistlin · Dec 3, 2011

2knowhim said:

So quick to go personal.
Sign of a lofty spirit.
Christs Spirit does not act this way.

Your explanation means little to me. I listen to Christ.

You are generalizing. Your answer was wrong concerning the initial question. I gave you the answer. Scripture is clear. You read it yourself. Don't be proud.

Do you need me to show you the scriptures that undo this statement?

Wrong. Our carnal bodies are still us. Intermingled with the growing Spirit within awaiting resurrection to be changed into spirit. If Satan has control over our minds, then we will think as he does and Christ would be abhorrent to us. You need to rethink your interpretation. It makes no sense.

To think carnally is death.
To think carnally is to not think as Christ(ians)
In other words, to think as a non believer.
You have misunderstood Christs meaning.

Again you misquote. Satan is not only bound by your reckoning, but is now also destroyed?
Bad misinterpretation.
Don't you realize it is a prophecy?

See above. You misunderstand the meaning.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 3, 2011

I think we all need to look at this closely, and it will be easy to see what is going on. We also need some perspective.

1. John saw future events. As the angel tells him earlier in the book;

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

We see a few things from this one verse.

1. The word revelation. In the greek it is apokolypsis (from where we get our english word apocalypse) means an uncovering, or making known of things. The angel was going to inform John of things which were not known.
2. The word shortly comes from a greek term which when translated in other areas of scritture means a rapid succession or occurance of things.

in other words John is letting us know what he is going to put in his book.

1. Things which are going to happen in the future (in other words, nothing he will show us has happened yet)
2. When these things begin, there will be a rapid succession (quickly) of these events john are showing us, In other words, it is not going to be a sequence of events which will be drawn out over many many years.

This is reiterated in chapter 4, when John is told he is going to be shown thigs will will take place in the future (have not taken place yet.

So with this context in mind. lets look at the chapter in question.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. As shown earlier. This event has not happened yet. John is looking into the future. at things which "shortly must come to pass" So at the time John had seen and wrote this. this even had not yet happened.
2. Satan is accusing us today, as we speak. That is why Christ, sitting on his throne, is mediating on our behalf. He is a mediator, because satan is accusing us. we also have scriptural proof satan is still active even today.
Paul states our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against powers in heavenly places (these powers are still in heaven, they have not been cast out)
We are also told Satan roams like a roaring lion seeking whome he may devour. Satan is obviously NOT BOUND.
3. We are told who they are.
overcame by the blood of Christ
Did not love lives, even till death
their testimony proved who they loved.

Again this proves a future event. For no one could do any of these things until AFTER Christ died and was resurrected. And these people had to have a lifetime testimony and then died. So it is impossible for this event to have happened at the time of Christ's ressurection. It speaks of the church as a whole and its lifetime.

4. Satan is cast down to earth. And the earth is given a warning. Satan knows he only has a short time left. which brings us to a few things to know before we move on. Satan no longer has access to heaven. His time is short (he knows scripture and knows when these things will take place,) And his wrath is going to be poured out on the inhabitants of the earth, again proving he is not yet bound!

Thus all we need to find is how short this time is. so lets move on.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

from this we get a few things.
1. Satan persecutes the woman who gave birth to Christ. Who is this "woman"

It can not be the church. The Church did not give birth to Christ, Christ bore the church.
It has to be Israel, for it was out of abraham's seed through Isaac and Jacob that Christ was bore.

so we see a final persecution of all who are of Abraham's physical seed who are on earth.

2. God protects them by sending them to the wilderness. again we notice a few things.

when Christ spoke of the "abomination of desolation" what did he warn them to do? Run to the hills.

what would follow this according to Christ? Great tribulation, such has never been seen before or after.

how long would this last?

Christ makes it clear. "for the sake of the elct, he will return and put a stop to it. Destroying satan and his armies.

3. This protection will continue for "a time times and half of a time" or 3 1/2 years. thus this great "tribulation" will last for 3 1/2 years.

4. Looking at Christ prophesy concerning times of the end before his return. and daniels prophesy of 70 weeks se see these things which MUST be taken into consideration.

According to Daniels prophesy. The last 7 years is started when some covenant is made. In the middle of this covenant, it is broken by the one who commits abomination. Now looking to Christ. this will be followed by great tribulation, which will end when Christ returns. (3 1/2 years later according to john in rev 12)

Satans fight is with the woman who gave birth. Israel. Not to say the church is not involved, but it is not Satan's first target. For again, she did not give birth to Christ. Christ gave birth to her. which is proven by the next part of the passage.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[b]

Satan has no power over Israel, he can't touch her. She is protected. So he then turns his wrath to the offspring of the woman (the church, or gentile believers)

AnandaHya · Dec 3, 2011

ok....

eternally-gratefull said:

I think we all need to look at this closely, and it will be easy to see what is going on. We also need some perspective.

1. John saw future events.

but not only future events but past, present and future: see this verse.... Revelation 1
"19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

As the angel tells him earlier in the book;

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

We see a few things from this one verse.

1. The word revelation. In the greek it is apokolypsis (from where we get our english word apocalypse) means an uncovering, or making known of things. The angel was going to inform John of things which were not known.
2. The word shortly comes from a greek term which when translated in other areas of scritture means a rapid succession or occurance of things.

in other words John is letting us know what he is going to put in his book.

1. Things which are going to happen in the future (in other words, nothing he will show us has happened yet) wrong read verse 19 of same chapter

2. When these things begin, there will be a rapid succession (quickly) of these events john are showing us, In other words, it is not going to be a sequence of events which will be drawn out over many many years. correct and many has already happened in THAT generation.

This is reiterated in chapter 4, when John is told he is going to be shown thigs will will take place in the future (have not taken place yet. again that is wrong.

So with this context in mind. lets look at the chapter in question.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. As shown earlier. This event has not happened yet. John is looking into the future. at things which "shortly must come to pass" So at the time John had seen and wrote this. this even had not yet happened. nope he was looking at the past that he had already witness on Earth as it appeared in Heaven.

2. Satan is accusing us today, as we speak. That is why Christ, sitting on his throne, is mediating on our behalf. He is a mediator, because satan is accusing us. we also have scriptural proof satan is still active even today.

Paul states our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against powers in heavenly places (these powers are still in heaven, they have not been cast out)

We are also told Satan roams like a roaring lion seeking whome he may devour. Satan is obviously NOT BOUND.

what happens to those verses during the Reign of Christ when Satan is bound? will they disappear from the Bible?

3. We are told who they are.
overcame by the blood of Christ
Did not love lives, even till death
their testimony proved who they loved.

Again this proves a future event. For no one could do any of these things until AFTER Christ died and was resurrected. And these people had to have a lifetime testimony and then died. So it is impossible for this event to have happened at the time of Christ's ressurection. It speaks of the church as a whole and its lifetime.
you mean when the Bible spoke about the spirit of prophecy being the testimony of Jesus Christ and the OT prophets being slain for their testimony it doesn't count?

4. Satan is cast down to earth. And the earth is given a warning. Satan knows he only has a short time left. which brings us to a few things to know before we move on. Satan no longer has access to heaven. His time is short (he knows scripture and knows when these things will take place,) And his wrath is going to be poured out on the inhabitants of the earth, again proving he is not yet bound!

Thus all we need to find is how short this time is. so lets move on.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

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that she is Taken up into Heaven by God after 3 1/2 years of tribulation to finish the Daniel 9 prophecy....

eternally-gratefull · Dec 3, 2011

First off. Do you know how to quote and paste?? Whay should i have to do all this extra work to try to respond to your responses. The way you did it. everything you quoted except you last comment is gone.

AnandaHya said:

1. From the greek. "you have seen" is the word eidos. It is in the aorist indicative tense. Which usually means something in the past tense. The problem is it is also in the ACTIVE mode. meaning it is happening right now.
2. John is to write the things he seen in the visions. Not what he has already seen happen in his lifetime. This is proven in verse 1.
3. Again, revelations means things unknown. If John is writing things he already knew, it would not be a revelation.

in all areas, you are the one who is wrong.

correct and many has already happened in THAT generation.

Click to expand...

You assuming, with no basis of fact.

again that is wrong.

Click to expand...

Rev 4: 1:
1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”

Everything which procedes in the rest of the book and visions of revelation are this. "things which will take place "AFTER THIS"

What is this?

The state of the seven churches. which are the things which john was told in chapter 1: 19. The current state of affairs of the seven churches and the way these churches will be. or "have been, are and will be"

So it is you who are wrong. Sorry but I do not destroy context and meaning to make my belief. I make my belief by looking at context and meaning.

nope he was looking at the past that he had already witness on Earth as it appeared in Heaven.

Click to expand...

Nope, your wrong. He was looking at "things which will take place "after this"

what happens to those verses during the Reign of Christ when Satan is bound? will they disappear from the Bible?

Click to expand...

Do what? what does this have to do with anything? When Christ comes and he is bound follow these events. When this happens, it will no longer by prophesy, but fulfilled prophesy. Your not making sense

you mean when the Bible spoke about the spirit of prophecy being the testimony of Jesus Christ and the OT prophets being slain for their testimony it doesn't count?

Click to expand...

1.. They (the people who loved no live, but God even till death) overcame him (satan) BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
2. OT prophets could not overcome satan by the blood of Christ. because the blood of Christ had not been shed yet.

yet again context destroys your theory

that she is Taken up into Heaven by God after 3 1/2 years of tribulation to finish the Daniel 9 prophecy....

Click to expand...

This makes no sense whatsoever. and does not come even close to explaining the rest of the passage.

Grandpa · Dec 3, 2011

2knowhim said:

It seems like people are overcomplicating the bible and its prophecy. It must be the natural thing to do.
Before we are saved we are bound by sin and death (satan). When we are saved by the Lord Jesus we are no longer a slave to sin and death but unto righteousness.
Aren't those scriptures in revelation telling of how people will be saved but from the spiritual perspective? That's the way I see it and obviously 2KnowHim sees it that way too.

Galations 1:3,4 3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

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