No Church, No Pastor, Christians?

[prophecyman]

Not trying to step on toes here, but it will avoidable, heres why.

The council of God informs us that he gave us the ministry.

Ephesians 4:11-16 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

So the question is... How can you be spiritually developed or perfected without a Pastor in your life?

The other question has to do with the fellowship of the saints... Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So how can you exhort, instruct, edify, if you are not in the household of faith, where your brothers and sisters come to worship.

How can you be used of God, if you are not there? How can you really love one another, if you do not not know each other?

I once belonged to a Christian Chat other than here at CC, and they advocated that the chat members were the Church on-line. You can not see these people, you can not hug your brothers neck on-line, and this is not Gods purpose nor is it his will.

Know them that labor among you!

How can the Church be supported if you do not hear the Word of the Lord... 1 Cor. 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. I believe he is making reference to those who labor among the in-gathering (Church/ Assembly).

1 Tim5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Meanwhile the local Church is plagued by those who say... Don't pay the Preacher, or those that say... I send my tithes to my favorite television Pastor. So when you are sick just call that Pastor and see if he won't hop on his 20 Million dollar lear jet and come and pray for you!

The local Pastor marries your sons and daughters, he preaches to you the good things of God, he will bury your dead, meanwhile some Pastors struggle to pay the light bill, I have even seen my own Pastor take a pay cut, as well as those who labor in the gospel.

Those who don't darken the doors of a Church have denied the faith and full rejects the council of God.

 

[damombomb]

Most people i have seen that do not go to church, are miserable,then when invited they say i,m not
ready for that, but it is not religion, it is a relationship with him and rest for your soul

 

[Bloodwashed]

Well, there are alot of them,[unchurched]! Churchs are not perfect. Pastors are not perfect. I agree with your whole post, less the last line. We got to love even our Brothers & Sisters who have become estranged from the body! Blessings Mark!

 

[AnandaHya]

To start with I do attend church because I love just being in the presence of others who worship God and seek Him. It doesn't really matter to me which denomination or if I know anyone in the whole congregation as long as His name is being praised. I tithe by giving to which ever church I decide to attend or which ever charity God places in my heart to give to and as long as my husband doesn't say we need it to pay the bills or help a family member on hard times.

that being said, I can understand not attending some churches. especially ones who do not have the Holy Spirit within them but are just den of demons with the trappings of a church.
I don't say this lightly but I have entered churches who just feel off and later read newspaper articles where the pastor is in some sort of scandal such as stealing money or sexual immorality.

I have many friends who are pastors and I love them and we pray for them and their ministry. we being the women who have befriended me. we have intercessory prayer meetings which I haven't attended in a while due to work and other things.

I find that I can't go to church as much as I would like and that is why I'm here a lot.

let me address your post now....

Not trying to step on toes here, but it will avoidable, heres why.

The council of God informs us that he gave us the ministry.

Ephesians 4:11-16 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

So the question is... How can you be spiritually developed or perfected without a Pastor in your life?

As long as you have the HOLY SPIRIT in your life GOD will teach you all things and bring people in your life to teach you. they don't have to have the title of pastor, just the honor of being called a child of God. Look at the OT prophets, often they had to be secluded and alone to learn from GOD and not men to fulfill the ministry that God created them for. therefore a pastor is not always needed but like I said they sure make good friends

The other question has to do with the fellowship of the saints... Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So how can you exhort, instruct, edify, if you are not in the household of faith, where your brothers and sisters come to worship.

How can you be used of God, if you are not there? How can you really love one another, if you do not not know each other?

you don't have to do this just at church, it should be done to everyone you meet and everywhere you go. you should exhort, instruct and edify all of God's children no matter where or when you find them if God so places it in your heart to do so.

I once belonged to a Christian Chat other than here at CC, and they advocated that the chat members were the Church on-line. You can not see these people, you can not hug your brothers neck on-line, and this is not Gods purpose nor is it his will.

Know them that labor among you!

I don't know about you but I spend the time to talk with and pray with and share with the people on CC. sometimes I tell some of my friends on here things I don't discuss with people face to face. most of the people I know do not want to talk about the Bible unless they have a problem or they need prayer. They are not interested in doctrine or estachology or any of the meat. sadly they bearly even drink the milk daily.

How can the Church be supported if you do not hear the Word of the Lord... 1 Cor. 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. I believe he is making reference to those who labor among the in-gathering (Church/ Assembly).

1 Tim5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Meanwhile the local Church is plagued by those who say... Don't pay the Preacher, or those that say... I send my tithes to my favorite television Pastor. So when you are sick just call that Pastor and see if he won't hop on his 20 Million dollar lear jet and come and pray for you!

The local Pastor marries your sons and daughters, he preaches to you the good things of God, he will bury your dead, meanwhile some Pastors struggle to pay the light bill, I have even seen my own Pastor take a pay cut, as well as those who labor in the gospel.

Those who don't darken the doors of a Church have denied the faith and full rejects the council of God.

you can donate to this site.

believe it or not I believe some of the moderators are pastors and mentor people who come on here with issues.

I don't know what the financial situation for them is but the amount of time and energy they use each day to protect those who come here to speak of Jesus and not be pestered for money or be trolled is a lot.

anyways I know the group of people you are trying to address. I just wanted to make you aware some would attend a church but they have medical problems that prevent them from leaving the house and that is why they are on this site. Some do not have a good Bible based church in their country. Some live in countries where their faith can get them killed and are evangelizing with only their Faith in Jesus to guide them.

there are a lot of different people on CC and even though some seem to be goofy at time, you have to see beyond the obvious into the heart that cries out to be loved and to give love.

 

[prophecyman]

Quote: anyways I know the group of people you are trying to address. I just wanted to make you aware some would attend a church but they have medical problems that prevent them from leaving the house and that is why they are on this site. Some do not have a good Bible based church in their country. Some live in countries where their faith can get them killed and are evangelizing with only their Faith in Jesus to guide them.

there are a lot of different people on CC and even though some seem to be goofy at time, you have to see beyond the obvious into the heart that cries out to be loved and to give love.

I totally agree, God alone judges the situation. My mode of address has to do with those who know better, and are able. The early Christians had to hide out in the catacombs where the dead were buried, it was dangerous for them to be open with their faith.

There is some here that need to be cautious with their faith, my prayer is for their freedom and that their country have revival.

Thank you for your post

 

[cookie39]

Not trying to step on toes here, but it will avoidable, heres why.

The council of God informs us that he gave us the ministry.

Ephesians 4:11-16 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

So the question is... How can you be spiritually developed or perfected without a Pastor in your life?

The other question has to do with the fellowship of the saints... Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So how can you exhort, instruct, edify, if you are not in the household of faith, where your brothers and sisters come to worship.

How can you be used of God, if you are not there? How can you really love one another, if you do not not know each other?

I once belonged to a Christian Chat other than here at CC, and they advocated that the chat members were the Church on-line. You can not see these people, you can not hug your brothers neck on-line, and this is not Gods purpose nor is it his will.

Know them that labor among you!

How can the Church be supported if you do not hear the Word of the Lord... 1 Cor. 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. I believe he is making reference to those who labor among the in-gathering (Church/ Assembly).

1 Tim5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Meanwhile the local Church is plagued by those who say... Don't pay the Preacher, or those that say... I send my tithes to my favorite television Pastor. So when you are sick just call that Pastor and see if he won't hop on his 20 Million dollar lear jet and come and pray for you!

The local Pastor marries your sons and daughters, he preaches to you the good things of God, he will bury your dead, meanwhile some Pastors struggle to pay the light bill, I have even seen my own Pastor take a pay cut, as well as those who labor in the gospel.

Those who don't darken the doors of a Church have denied the faith and full rejects the council of God.

The Church of God is not built with man's hands and God do not dwell in any building.... We are the temple of the Holy Ghost.... The Body of Christ is made up of those who are of Faith.

The assembling of the saints is what we do when we all come together. you do not need a building to minister the Word of God... you do not need man to always teach you. IF YOU LOOK AT THE VERSES YOU GAVE YOU WILL SEE IT SAY... "UNTIL" once you grow from being taught the TRUTH of the Word of God you will then know to seek the Holy Ghost ONLY for your teaching... we can gleam from as many of the saints of God as he send in our lives.

I have been out of an assembly for 5 yrs.... in my search for a ministry that is and will stand for nothing but truth...I visited more so called churches than I can count. as many have said not all churches are of God nor from God.

No matter where we are or where we go in life; GOD CAN AND WILL USE ALL OF US WHO HE HAS TAUGHT.
The Lord can give revelation of one verse to someone and use them to save a nation. it is not about the place it is all about the people. The Altar of God is now in heaven and so is everything we need to make it to His heavenly Throne.

I would that you read that verse with the revelations of the Holy Ghost. and you will see that the Church of Christ is not based on how many times we show up in a building made from the hands of man... it is all about where the Spirit of God dwells... which is in the heart of His people. Peter and Paul and the Apostles did not build up buildings and put elders over them... they set up the Body of Christ and put elders over it.

 

[anonymousindividual77]

Prophecy Man I agree with your post. Many people forget or do not understand those basic biblical principles.

 

[Israel]

Only when one preaches death is the the gospel sold at a price! For freely we have received and freely I will give!

 

[Saul_Durian]

Most people i have seen that do not go to church, are miserable,then when invited they say i,m not
ready for that, but it is not religion, it is a relationship with him and rest for your soul

I don't go to church ever anymore, I am actually happier now then when I went on a regular basis.

 

[sonnyd]

AnandaHye:

A wonderful post with much insight as to how I think Jesus works. A blessing to read

 

[sonnyd]

Even though I do not always agree with AnandaHye on her interpretation of the scriptures there is a great amount of study must have been done. I can see that knowledge in all her post. May God bless you as you continue your studies

 

[tribesman]

Not trying to step on toes here, but it will avoidable, heres why.

The council of God informs us that he gave us the ministry.

Ephesians 4:11-16 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

So the question is... How can you be spiritually developed or perfected without a Pastor in your life?

The other question has to do with the fellowship of the saints... Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So how can you exhort, instruct, edify, if you are not in the household of faith, where your brothers and sisters come to worship.

How can you be used of God, if you are not there? How can you really love one another, if you do not not know each other?

I once belonged to a Christian Chat other than here at CC, and they advocated that the chat members were the Church on-line. You can not see these people, you can not hug your brothers neck on-line, and this is not Gods purpose nor is it his will.

Know them that labor among you!

How can the Church be supported if you do not hear the Word of the Lord... 1 Cor. 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. I believe he is making reference to those who labor among the in-gathering (Church/ Assembly).

1 Tim5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Meanwhile the local Church is plagued by those who say... Don't pay the Preacher, or those that say... I send my tithes to my favorite television Pastor. So when you are sick just call that Pastor and see if he won't hop on his 20 Million dollar lear jet and come and pray for you!

The local Pastor marries your sons and daughters, he preaches to you the good things of God, he will bury your dead, meanwhile some Pastors struggle to pay the light bill, I have even seen my own Pastor take a pay cut, as well as those who labor in the gospel.

Those who don't darken the doors of a Church have denied the faith and full rejects the council of God.

Good call!!

 

[musiclover123]

It seems that at times there are some who take advantage of having a church congregation to be a part of. I know throughout my highschool years, I would have ended up in some serious trouble had I not had a congregation to be a part of.
I've seen cases where some just decided they don't like the way the church they are attending is set up, so they decide to stop going and don't bother finding somewhere else to go.

It does seem that there are pastors for a reason, as Jesus told Peter to feed His followers. The same applies to church congregations, as many of the epistles are written to congregations of people. Paul wrote to several churches, as well as the apostle John worked with several churches, including those listed in the book of Revelation. Some would say that the writings to a church in a certain city was actually just another way of meaning all the belivers of that city, but if that's so why did Paul write to the 'churches of galatia' instead of the church?

I find that it's important to be a part of a church group, whether a large congregration, or a small home group. We're told not to forsake the gathering, and although I know God can use people outside of these groups, it can become difficult to edify one another when you're never with a group of people to edify them.

 

[Crossfire]

Well, there are alot of them,[unchurched]! Churchs are not perfect. Pastors are not perfect. I agree with your whole post, less the last line. We got to love even our Brothers & Sisters who have become estranged from the body! Blessings Mark!

Amen...

 

[Crossfire]

Even though I do not always agree with AnandaHye on her interpretation of the scriptures there is a great amount of study must have been done. I can see that knowledge in all her post. May God bless you as you continue your studies

Agreed. While it seems that she and I tend to disagree more than agree, there is no doubt in my mind that she is a woman after God's own heart and that she genuinely truly cares for those she attempts to reach out to.

To me, salvation is not so much about what we know but rather Who we know. As long as she's pursuing God with all of her heart, soul & strength then I can overlook any doctrinal disagreements that we might have.

 

[prophecyman]

The bible teaches in Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Sorry folks but to hop from Church to Church or not to go to Church, or not accepting a Pastors authority nor to submit to a Pastor, but as some say... Follow the leading of the Spirit, is not following the Spirit, for the scriptures are plain in regards to what an assembly is, and how you should know them that labor among you, and how you should love one another and pray for one another, can't be done unless you are actively a part of the body.

What constitutes true Christianity is obedience to the instructions of Gods word. He gave various ministries to edify you, you can only edify yourself to a point, but you can not be an iland to yourself. There is qualified men who are ordained of God to help develop your spirituality.

So the point is... If you read the entire context of the instructions we are given, then how do we measure up to the word of truth; are you submitted to a pastor, do you support the local assembly? If not, then there is a serious flaw to your faith.

My advice is to seek out a Church that is lively, practice obdeience to those who watch over you and really fast and pray for God to lead you to the right place, and that the Holy Spirit may minister to you through Gods annointed ones.

 

[asd101]

I don't go to church ever anymore, I am actually happier now then when I went on a regular basis.

sad to hear... maybe it was the church you went to... what denomination was it???

 

[Saul_Durian]

sad to hear... maybe it was the church you went to... what denomination was it???

I went to several over the years. From baptist, to Lutheran. Evangelical and Catholic. I think I enjoyed the Catholic church the most, seemed to have the best stratosphere. But it is more the people then the church itself that made it good.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Prophecyman, I personally know two prophets, one evangelist, and a hand full of teachers who would ask you, "why did you only mention the pastor?". The verse you quoted has to do with much more than just a pastor. You are probably wondering why I said I know two prophets. Is that too bold. Prophecy is a gift of the Spirit just like tongues and interpretation are two of the gifts of the Spirit. I often find many people who believe in the gifts of the Spirit when it comes to tongues and interpretation but often are uneducated about the gift of prophecy. Those with the gift of prophecy are prophets. Is that too bold? I believe it is the facts. I wish I could take every Pentecostal and Charasmatic and explain to them how if you believe in the gifts of the Spirit you should believe in all the gifts of the Spirit. But mostly I wonder: why just the pastors? There are many people you excluded.

 

[prophecyman]

Prophecyman, I personally know two prophets, one evangelist, and a hand full of teachers who would ask you, "why did you only mention the pastor?". The verse you quoted has to do with much more than just a pastor. You are probably wondering why I said I know two prophets. Is that too bold. Prophecy is a gift of the Spirit just like tongues and interpretation are two of the gifts of the Spirit. I often find many people who believe in the gifts of the Spirit when it comes to tongues and interpretation but often are uneducated about the gift of prophecy. Those with the gift of prophecy are prophets. Is that too bold? I believe it is the facts. I wish I could take every Pentecostal and Charasmatic and explain to them how if you believe in the gifts of the Spirit you should believe in all the gifts of the Spirit. But mostly I wonder: why just the pastors? There are many people you excluded.

One of the first verses that I outlined was Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.

And I made emphasis that God gave these ministries for the perfecting of the Saints. Please check for verification of my original posting for details!