WHAT EXACTLY WAS ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by shroom2

...which He does when they choose to believe.

The natural man will not choose to serve a spiritual God, 1 Cor 2:14. You cannot explain 1 Cor 2:14 to mean anything else!

[feedm3]

Originally Posted by Forest

The natural man will not choose to serve a spiritual God, 1 Cor 2:14. You cannot explain 1 Cor 2:14 to mean anything else!

Your right HE WILL NOT CHOOSE, because HE is natural in HIS thinking.

This does not mean that God chose he would be a natural man with natural thinking.

That was his own decision and that is why he is spiritually discerned, and why he will face the wrath of God.

Otherwise him not making it to heaven would not be his fault, and therefore unfair.

God is just, and no respecter of persons.

[tribesman]

Originally Posted by Forest

The way that I understand it is that when we are all (both the elect and the non-elect) born into this world by natural birth, we all are but natural beings. Without any righteousness until God quickens his elect.

Yes, no righteousness before regeneration. And therefore also no justification before that.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by feedm3

Your right HE WILL NOT CHOOSE, because HE is natural in HIS thinking.

This does not mean that God chose he would be a natural man with natural thinking.

That was his own decision and that is why he is spiritually discerned, and why he will face the wrath of God.

Otherwise him not making it to heaven would not be his fault, and therefore unfair.

God is just, and no respecter of persons.

We are all, both the elect and the non-elect,born into this world as natural beings without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life, Eph 2:1-5.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by tribesman

Yes, no righteousness before regeneration. And therefore also no justification before that.

Justification for God's elect was accomplished by Christ on the cross.Gal 2:16.

[tribesman]

Originally Posted by Forest

Justification for God's elect was accomplished by Christ on the cross.Gal 2:16.

Gal.2

[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

That scripture does not say that we are justified before we are regenerated. It affirms that justification is applied through faith, which follows as a fruit of regeneration. It does not also say that someone merely comes to knowledge that he already is righteous. To claim that would be to say that the elect were born justified in their natural birth. And that would contradict Eph.2:1-3.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by feedm3

Your right HE WILL NOT CHOOSE, because HE is natural in HIS thinking.

This does not mean that God chose he would be a natural man with natural thinking.

That was his own decision and that is why he is spiritually discerned, and why he will face the wrath of God.

Otherwise him not making it to heaven would not be his fault, and therefore unfair.

God is just, and no respecter of persons.

We, both the elect and non-elect, are born into this world as natural beings without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life, Eph 2:1-5.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by tribesman

That scripture does not say that we are justified before we are regenerated. It affirms that justification is applied through faith, which follows as a fruit of regeneration. It does not also say that someone merely comes to knowledge that he already is righteous. To claim that would be to say that the elect were born justified in their natural birth. And that would contradict Eph.2:1-3.

Our faith only comes with regeneration and our faith is not what justifies us, it is still Christ's faith that makes us just.

[Israel]

Originally Posted by Forest

We, both the elect and non-elect, are born into this world as natural beings without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life, Eph 2:1-5.

If it is God who quickens His elect, then what of the rest or "non-elect"?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Israel

If it is God who quickens His elect, then what of the rest or "non-elect"?

They stay in their natural state until at the last day God judges their works and sends them into everlasting torment.

[Israel]

Originally Posted by Forest

They stay in their natural state until at the last day God judges their works and sends them into everlasting torment.

Do you honestly understand what you're saying? the elect(you) were once as the non elect and in an unchangeable natural state until THE HOLY SPIRIT quickens them(you). This is so because God chose them(you) before the world was, and the rest "HE SENDS INTO EVERLASTING TORMENT" BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT DO SOMETHING THAT THE ELECT(YOU) CANNOT DO AS WELL!? If the elect(you) can only be quickened to God by His Spirit, then it holds true for all of mankind.

[loveme1]

Salvation is open to all mankind, but Yahweh already knows ahead of time who accept it....

By trying to understand with our mere man minds, how Almighty Yahweh our GOD knows who the elect are, is pointless, because we are just men/women... he is Almighty and all knowing, we accept salvation and not question who will or won't accept. Or how Yahweh knows all that accept, and why they are called elect.... you will miss the point of Salvation is open to all, why not all accept is not for us to know..

We follow with all our heart and soul, love and obey, give praise, and pray and hold fast to what we know.

we point other lost people in the direction of Salvation the Bible, we read with others if they ask, we feed those that are hungry and cloth others.

We let the light shine through us, so that people can see the light, and may wonder where it came from...

We deny ourselves, to let the light shine, we forgive and love all.

We do not follow man, we follow Yeshua our Saviour all the way to the Kingdom of God, Our Almighty Yahweh can and wants to forgive all, but he also already knows all those that come to him through his son Yeshua our Saviour.

Accept what we are told, and stop seeing the Bible as a cryptic puzzle...
It is the written story that we have been blessed with, it teaches us so much if we let it.

You can not selective read it, but i must say, some lost in translation is deliberate....

The Holy spirit overcomes this and you must not let a man use scripture to take money from you...
We must be charitable, but if someone is using scripture.. so you plant a seed of say $49.00 but you will recieve ten fold from God for planting your seed, or you are to give the first fruit of the month in money terms so that you will be blessed with money throughout the year, then you are letting him take scripture and take advantage of you.

If someone is hungry you buy them dinner, you don't do it so that you receive dinner ten fold back...
Money donations can be offered but not because someone tells you.

You reap what you sow...

Because there is too many people using scripture to get rich, under the "charity" label.

If they were so charitable they would not be living a life of luxury... They would know where their reward is, they would humble themselves and accept their circumstance, instead of false teaching others so they can live a life of luxury and give 10% to those in need etc...

We judge them not, but we do not add to their corruption,

If you have $49.00 to give, then find the needy near you.

We are not able to make the world a better place, it was not asked of us, while the evil exists then so will poverty, sickness, war..........

If the world really cared, then there would not be poverty, there would not be a luxury life style needed.

We all could truly reap what we sow, and live off the land like we were suppose to...

We are not better off now, that at the start... since time comes to pass so does all the punishment for not obeying and loving Yahweh our GOD with all our heart and soul.

We have brought it all on ourselves, a lesson learnt in the end, that there is only one Almighty GOD and that is Yahweh our creator, who we have turned away from.

Once Eve ate the fruit, all must come to pass to teach us all what Adam and Eve was told, Yahweh knows best for us, obey him, love him with all your heart and soul.

He is Almighty, and he is all knowing, everything that come to pass was to teach all of us a lesson, and if you learn it, your reward is eternal life.

Yeshua is son of Yahweh and he is the only way home.

We are descendants of everything that came to pass, we are living through what happens when we turn away from Yahweh...

[tribesman]

Originally Posted by Forest

Our faith only comes with regeneration and our faith is not what justifies us, it is still Christ's faith that makes us just.

The person and work of Christ is definitely the one and only way that God can declare someone righteous. However, this is applied to the elect in time, through regeneration.

You also wrote to feedm3:

Originally Posted by Forest

We, both the elect and non-elect, are born into this world as natural beings without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life, Eph 2:1-5.

This is exactly my belief. Now, if even the elect are "without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life", as you said, then how can you at the same time also say that the elect were righteous before their regeneration?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by tribesman

That scripture does not say that we are justified before we are regenerated. It affirms that justification is applied through faith, which follows as a fruit of regeneration. It does not also say that someone merely comes to knowledge that he already is righteous. To claim that would be to say that the elect were born justified in their natural birth. And that would contradict Eph.2:1-3.

If the elect were eternally saved on the cross,which they were, then they were saved also in their natural state too, same as justification.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Israel

Do you honestly understand what you're saying? the elect(you) were once as the non elect and in an unchangeable natural state until THE HOLY SPIRIT quickens them(you). This is so because God chose them(you) before the world was, and the rest "HE SENDS INTO EVERLASTING TORMENT" BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT DO SOMETHING THAT THE ELECT(YOU) CANNOT DO AS WELL!? If the elect(you) can only be quickened to God by His Spirit, then it holds true for all of mankind.

Not so, God only quickens his elect.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by loveme1

Salvation is open to all mankind, but Yahweh already knows ahead of time who accept it....

By trying to understand with our mere man minds, how Almighty Yahweh our GOD knows who the elect are, is pointless, because we are just men/women... he is Almighty and all knowing, we accept salvation and not question who will or won't accept. Or how Yahweh knows all that accept, and why they are called elect.... you will miss the point of Salvation is open to all, why not all accept is not for us to know..

We follow with all our heart and soul, love and obey, give praise, and pray and hold fast to what we know.

we point other lost people in the direction of Salvation the Bible, we read with others if they ask, we feed those that are hungry and cloth others.

We let the light shine through us, so that people can see the light, and may wonder where it came from...

We deny ourselves, to let the light shine, we forgive and love all.

We do not follow man, we follow Yeshua our Saviour all the way to the Kingdom of God, Our Almighty Yahweh can and wants to forgive all, but he also already knows all those that come to him through his son Yeshua our Saviour.

Accept what we are told, and stop seeing the Bible as a cryptic puzzle...
It is the written story that we have been blessed with, it teaches us so much if we let it.

You can not selective read it, but i must say, some lost in translation is deliberate....

The Holy spirit overcomes this and you must not let a man use scripture to take money from you...
We must be charitable, but if someone is using scripture.. so you plant a seed of say $49.00 but you will recieve ten fold from God for planting your seed, or you are to give the first fruit of the month in money terms so that you will be blessed with money throughout the year, then you are letting him take scripture and take advantage of you.

If someone is hungry you buy them dinner, you don't do it so that you receive dinner ten fold back...
Money donations can be offered but not because someone tells you.

You reap what you sow...

Because there is too many people using scripture to get rich, under the "charity" label.

If they were so charitable they would not be living a life of luxury... They would know where their reward is, they would humble themselves and accept their circumstance, instead of false teaching others so they can live a life of luxury and give 10% to those in need etc...

We judge them not, but we do not add to their corruption,

If you have $49.00 to give, then find the needy near you.

We are not able to make the world a better place, it was not asked of us, while the evil exists then so will poverty, sickness, war..........

If the world really cared, then there would not be poverty, there would not be a luxury life style needed.

We all could truly reap what we sow, and live off the land like we were suppose to...

We are not better off now, that at the start... since time comes to pass so does all the punishment for not obeying and loving Yahweh our GOD with all our heart and soul.

We have brought it all on ourselves, a lesson learnt in the end, that there is only one Almighty GOD and that is Yahweh our creator, who we have turned away from.

Once Eve ate the fruit, all must come to pass to teach us all what Adam and Eve was told, Yahweh knows best for us, obey him, love him with all your heart and soul.

He is Almighty, and he is all knowing, everything that come to pass was to teach all of us a lesson, and if you learn it, your reward is eternal life.

Yeshua is son of Yahweh and he is the only way home.

We are descendants of everything that came to pass, we are living through what happens when we turn away from Yahweh...

God looked down from heaven on the children of men to see if any would seek him or do good, and he saw that they were all filthy and none of them have done any good, no, not one. Thats what God had to choose from. I'm sorry I cannot grasp where this is found right now, but thats what the scripture says.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by tribesman

The person and work of Christ is definitely the one and only way that God can declare someone righteous. However, this is applied to the elect in time, through regeneration.

You also wrote to feedm3:



This is exactly my belief. Now, if even the elect are "without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life", as you said, then how can you at the same time also say that the elect were righteous before their regeneration?

Because the work that Christ accomplished on the cross for those that God gave him, made them holy and without blame and from that time on, God says their sins are as far away from him as the east is from the west and he remembers them no more.

[tribesman]

Originally Posted by Forest

Because the work that Christ accomplished on the cross for those that God gave him, made them holy and without blame and from that time on, God says their sins are as far away from him as the east is from the west and he remembers them no more.

But you've said that they are "without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life". Being righteous equals being just or justified. So you mean that they, before being quickened, both have no righteousness and yet also are righteous at the same time?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by tribesman

But you've said that they are "without any righteousness until God quickens his elect to a spiritual life". Being righteous equals being just or justified. So you mean that they, before being quickened, both have no righteousness and yet also are righteous at the same time?

The elect that he choose before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, and gave to his Son to die for their sins, were eternally saved and made just there on the cross. When they were in a natural state before their quickening they were already secured in their eternal salvation by what Christ accomplished on the cross.

[loveme1]

Originally Posted by Forest

God looked down from heaven on the children of men to see if any would seek him or do good, and he saw that they were all filthy and none of them have done any good, no, not one. Thats what God had to choose from. I'm sorry I cannot grasp where this is found right now, but thats what the scripture says.

Yes none of us are worthy but we are blessed to have a merciful loving Yahweh that knows all things.

Your quote does not mean that he does not know the end from the beginning, it only proves how wicked we are, and that is why he found none when he looked....

He is long suffering but he will not give up on us, only we can give up on him, freewill....