Saved by Works

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L

Laodicea

Guest
#21
Revelation 20:13
(13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#22
1 Corinthians 3:13 KJV
(13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
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#23
[FONT=&quot]Christ clothes us in His righteousness[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Isaiah 61:10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
(10) I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 3:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(22) Even [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the righteousness of God which is by faith[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

It is only the righteousness of Christ which can make us perfect, no amount of obeying can make us perfect, Christ lived a perfect life for us (His righteousness). We are not only saved by His death but by His life.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 5:10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]saved by his life.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We are not saved by good works we are saved for good works
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ephesians 2:8-10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]created in Christ Jesus unto good works,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The only way we can overcome is to surrender to Him (die to self)
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 6:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(16) Know ye not, that to [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot], his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We are not saved by our works but, by His works, all we can do is to surrender and let Him work in us


[/FONT]
What is this righteousness that you speak of?

Please be detailed on what I must clothe myself with
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#24
What is this righteousness that you speak of?

Please be detailed on what I must clothe myself with
First we do not clothe ourself He clothes us when we surrender all to Him. The righteousness that He clothes us with is the perfect life of Christ.
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
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#25
Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

It's quite logical that if we have to endure to get to the end to be saved
Some type of work on our part is needed
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
0
0
#26
First we do not clothe ourself He clothes us when we surrender all to Him. The righteousness that He clothes us with is the perfect life of Christ.
What is the perfect life of Jesus that we must do?
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
0
0
#27
[FONT=&quot]Christ clothes us in His righteousness[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Isaiah 61:10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
(10) I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 3:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(22) Even [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the righteousness of God which is by faith[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

It is only the righteousness of Christ which can make us perfect, no amount of obeying can make us perfect, Christ lived a perfect life for us (His righteousness). We are not only saved by His death but by His life.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 5:10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]saved by his life.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We are not saved by good works we are saved for good works
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ephesians 2:8-10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]created in Christ Jesus unto good works,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The only way we can overcome is to surrender to Him (die to self)
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 6:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(16) Know ye not, that to [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot], his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We are not saved by our works but, by His works, all we can do is to surrender and let Him work in us


[/FONT]
By the verses you quoted what is the good works and righteousness he speak of?
 

clarkthompson

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2012
624
7
18
#28
we are not saved by works. We are saved by faith but, we are saved for doing works.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

It's quite logical that if we have to endure to get to the end to be saved
Some type of work on our part is needed
Jesus is talking about physical lives being saved during the great tribulation. He is saying those who endure and survive until his return will be saved. He is not talking about personal salvation. This would contradict the rest of scripture if he was speaking of this. not to mention, he would have contradicted himself.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#30
What is the perfect life of Jesus that we must do?
We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ which is the perfect life of Jesus. We are saved for good works.
Ephesians 2:10 KJV
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Holiness is the fruit of being a servant of God
Romans 6:22 KJV
(22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We do not keep the Law of God to be saved, we keep the Law as a fruit of being in Christ.

 
H

haz

Guest
#31
We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ which is the perfect life of Jesus. We are saved for good works.
Ephesians 2:10 KJV
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Holiness is the fruit of being a servant of God
Romans 6:22 KJV
(22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We do not keep the Law of God to be saved, we keep the Law as a fruit of being in Christ.


Hi Laodecia,

You quoted Eph 2:10 referring to "good works"

What are the good works Christians do?
When Jesus was asked what works we should do he answered: "believe on him whom he hath sent"

Col 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so
walk ye in him:
How did we receive Christ? By faith. And this is how a Christians walk is. It's a walk of faith. We believe on Jesus.

And note the context of Eph 2.
Eph 2:14,15
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

What was separating us from God. The middle wall of partition, the law. You speak of works of obedience to this (10 commandments) as proof of holiness. This is incorrect

You also quoted Rom 6:22:
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
"

Fruit unto holiness is not obedience to the law (10 commandments)
The "fruit unto holiness" speaks of Jesus Christ. He is the firstfruit in Christians. 1Cor 15:20
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

And it is Christ (the firstfruit) in us that makes us holy. Rom 11:16
" if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy"

And with Christ in us we have everlasting life.
The thief on the cross received Christ the firstfruit and thus became holy and had everlasting life, as Rom 6:22 describes. This was achieved without any obedience to the law. It was grace alone.

blessings
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#32
Ephesians 2:14-15 KJV
(14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

It is the Laws of ordinances that have been abolished that is what the text says. There is no mention of the 10 commandments being abolished.
 
H

haz

Guest
#33
Ephesians 2:14-15 KJV
(14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

It is the Laws of ordinances that have been abolished that is what the text says. There is no mention of the 10 commandments being abolished.
Scripture does not separate "the law" into separate laws, as you want to believe.

2Cor 3:7-
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones (10 commandments), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

And note also these scriptures.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" Rom 10:4
"if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law"
. Gal 5:18
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death"

ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ Rom 7:4
But now we are delivered from the law Rom 7:6
Which law?
Rom 7:7
I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Clearly it's the 10 commandments.

Notice how the law (clearly including 10 commandments) is:
"done away"
"end of he law"
"not under the law"
"made free from the law"
"delivered from"
"dead to"


Under your "gospel" we still can be charged with sin. Under your gospel Christ did not set us free from sin.

But Rom 8:33 says:
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Under the true gospel nobody can lay anything to the charge of those God justified.
This contradicts your gospel.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
Scripture does not separate "the law" into separate laws, as you want to believe.

2Cor 3:7-
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones (10 commandments), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

And note also these scriptures.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" Rom 10:4
"if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law"
. Gal 5:18
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death"

ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ Rom 7:4
But now we are delivered from the law Rom 7:6
Which law?
Rom 7:7
I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Clearly it's the 10 commandments.

Notice how the law (clearly including 10 commandments) is:
"done away"
"end of he law"
"not under the law"
"made free from the law"
"delivered from"
"dead to"


Under your "gospel" we still can be charged with sin. Under your gospel Christ did not set us free from sin.

But Rom 8:33 says:
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Under the true gospel nobody can lay anything to the charge of those God justified.
This contradicts your gospel.
Amen, And just to add,

Gal 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#35
Ephesians 2:14-15 KJV
(14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

It is the Laws of ordinances that have been abolished that is what the text says. There is no mention of the 10 commandments being abolished.
The oldtestamant calls the ten commandments both laws and ordinances
this is what would have been understood by the readers of that day.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#36
Dear Laodicea,
No, we are not saved by anything we can personally do; but by Christ's mercy (Titus 3:5). God bless you. In Christ's love, Scott
Scott that isn't really true... we choose... no one can choose for us. Jesus laid down his life to save ALL men, but not All men choose to receive that salvation.
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
0
0
#37
James 1

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
 
Aug 8, 2012
2,003
0
0
#38
We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ which is the perfect life of Jesus. We are saved for good works.
Ephesians 2:10 KJV
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Holiness is the fruit of being a servant of God
Romans 6:22 KJV
(22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We do not keep the Law of God to be saved, we keep the Law as a fruit of being in Christ.


you keep the law to get eternal life which is being saved

lets read


Matthew 19:15-17

King James Version (KJV)


15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

what is God righteouseness that he clothes us with?

what is the fruit that we need to be a servant of God?

we have to be able to show people WHaT God requires of thee.


Deuteronomy 10:11-13

King James Version (KJV)

11 And the Lord said unto me, Arise, take thy journey before the people, that they may go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them.

12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?


 
H

haz

Guest
#39
James 1

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:


20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.


21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


22 But be ye doers of the word
, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:


24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.


25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer,
but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
AMEN !

And note the verses:
receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
This refers to the gospel, which is able to save our souls

22 But be ye doers of the word , and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
To be a doer of the word is to believe on Jesus. These are our works, John 6:29. This is God's will for us to obey, John 6:40.

With Christ in us we are a new creation, 2Cor 5:17. It's no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20. This is who God sees in us. Christ Jesus. And this is who we see in ourselves and other Christians. It's Christ in us that makes us righteous, holy, perfected, justified, purified, sanctified and without sin, immediately, when we receive him.

But, those who desire to be under the law after receiving Christ, preaching that obedience to the law is proof of righteousness/salvation are
"like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was."

Their minds have been corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2Cor 11:3

They mix grace with works of the law, which cannot be.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Rom 11:6

To mix grace and works is to be lukewarm.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Rev 3:15,16


This mixing grace and works is spiritual fornication, which we are commanded to avoid.
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from (spiritual) fornication: 1Thess 4:3


Those preaching obedience to the law as proof of righteousness/salvation are hearers only of the word. They forget what they were in Christ.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#40
[SUP]James 2:20-22 KJV
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
(22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[/SUP]