Once saved always saved.

Originally Posted by Red33

We are commanded to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Are you doing that and part of a local church and ministry that is obeying that commandment along with making disciples? How faithful are you in your obedience to that commandment? There is another command about loving your neighbor as yourself. Do you love your neighbor the same way you love yourself and your own family? Let's start listing all the commandments and see just how we measure up. These commandments are easy to find. Whenever you have a verb with the imperative mood is a mandate which is the same thing as a command. Do you love God the same way He loves you, with all your heart, mind, soul and strength? We are commanded to be sober minded, are you sober minded and do you even know what that means? Remember, if you break one of the least of any of these commandments you have failed. We are commanded to let no corrupt communication proceed from our mouth but rather minister grace to the hearer. Are you doing that or even know what that means?

We are to esteem others better than ourselves and to bestow more abundant honor on them the seem less honorable. Do you obey those commands? We are to lay our life down even with those that we may not like that may become our enemies. Do you obey that mandate and go the extra mile? I can mention at least a hundred more so that you can examine to see if you are really practicing what you and others preach about obeying the commands to secure your salvation. I will venture to say that every one of you are falling short of obeying and keeping the commandments and you can't use ignorance as an excuse and that would mean that you have lost your salvation and don't even know it. You are going around professing yourself to be a believer when God has taken the Spirit from you and revoked all His imputed gifts. What a sorry shape of affairs that you boys are living in without even the slightest notion of what is going on. You might as well forget repentance when you don't even know what to repent of.

Thanks for this reminder in truth Red. God bless

Galations 5:14 (NIV)
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

[feedm3]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Red33

We are commanded to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Are you doing that and part of a local church and ministry that is obeying that commandment along with making disciples? How faithful are you in your obedience to that commandment? There is another command about loving your neighbor as yourself. Do you love your neighbor the same way you love yourself and your own family? Let's start listing all the commandments and see just how we measure up.

You might understand these commands better if you keep them it's context.

Jesus commanded his disciples to "go out into all the world", meaning go to all nations, not only Jewish.
Are we to do this? sure. We must teach and make disciples, do I have to travel around the world to do such? No, I find plenty of lost souls right in the area in which I live.

If we do not keep these commands in their context, then we also have a command not to teach anyone but Jews:
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So we see, by the context the command is understood, they were only to go to Israel (limited commission) and later told to "go into all the world" (Great commission.)

Love thy neighbor as thyself, in it's context is not speaking of the house next door. But telling the Jews they were to love the Gentiles (neighboring countries and cities) as thyself (as a they would love another Jew).

So when we look at what they mean according to the context, we can measure up to what is commanded:
Teach the gospel, anywhere you are, if you feel the need to travel far off, fine.
Love thy neighbor - respect all races and people, and do not feel any person cannot be made a child of God. This is what the commands are speaking of in the context they are found.

When we use them to mean I must love the man next door, we are taking them out of context.
Not saying we can hate the man next door, but still that is not the idea behind what Christ spoke in that particular passage.

[Avinu]

[QUOTE]You might understand these commands better if you keep them it's context.

Jesus commanded his disciples to "go out into all the world", meaning go to all nations, not only Jewish.
Are we to do this? sure. We must teach and make disciples, do I have to travel around the world to do such? No, I find plenty of lost souls right in the area in which I live.

If we do not keep these commands in their context, then we also have a command not to teach anyone but Jews:
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So we see, by the context the command is understood, they were only to go to Israel (limited commission) and later told to "go into all the world" (Great commission.)

Love thy neighbor as thyself, in it's context is not speaking of the house next door. But telling the Jews they were to love the Gentiles (neighboring countries and cities) as thyself (as a they would love another Jew).

So when we look at what they mean according to the context, we can measure up to what is commanded:
Teach the gospel, anywhere you are, if you feel the need to travel far off, fine.
Love thy neighbor - respect all races and people, and do not feel any person cannot be made a child of God. This is what the commands are speaking of.


[/quote]
Very nice, very nice indeed, shalom

[Avinu]

Proverbs 28:9 ONE WHO TURNS AWAY HIS EAR FROM HEARING THE LAW, EVEN HIS PRAYER IS AN ABOMINATION.

[Zilla64007]

this entire discussion of the state of salvation comes down into two categories:

1. Man is responsible for his actions because God has given man free will.
2. Man is not responsible for his actions because God has pre-determined, fore-ordained, and ultimately pre-destined every single thought and action, both voluntary and involuntary, before time began.

which side do you fall under?

personally, I believe God created us in His Image, and gave us free will.

[HearOhIsreal]

Accepting some requirements for salvation, while ignoring others, leads to error and contradiction. You cannot isolate one scripture and prefer it over the overall teaching of God's word. If we follow only one part of a set of instructions, we will not achieve the desired result. For example, a driver's manual says, "To drive a car, you must have a key." If we get a key, but ignore the rest of the instructions, will we automatically be driving the car? Of course not. So faith is a "key" to salvation - it gives us power to become children of God [John 1:12]. We are not immediately the sons of God just because we believe on Him, but we certainly have the power to be. We have to consider all the requirements that God's word teaches if we want to find the true gospel.

Originally Posted by HearOhIsreal

Accepting some requirements for salvation, while ignoring others, leads to error and contradiction. You cannot isolate one scripture and prefer it over the overall teaching of God's word. If we follow only one part of a set of instructions, we will not achieve the desired result. For example, a driver's manual says, "To drive a car, you must have a key." If we get a key, but ignore the rest of the instructions, will we automatically be driving the car? Of course not. So faith is a "key" to salvation - it gives us power to become children of God [John 1:12]. We are not immediately the sons of God just because we believe on Him, but we certainly have the power to be. We have to consider all the requirements that God's word teaches if we want to find the true gospel.

I'm pretty certain I speak for all (including Grandpa and EG) when I say that it is acknowledged and recognized that faith without works is dead. It really is no faith at all. Having said that, Christ said that He is the vine ... and we are the branches. We can do nothing (good, that is) without Him. So what other requirements are there that one must accept when the good works that we do happen only because of Christ first living within us anyways ? Faith is not granted us (yes, it truly is indeed His gift to us) because of our good works. Good works are the result of God's gift of faith in Christ Jesus. Not the other way around.

[feedm3]

Originally Posted by unclefester

I'm pretty certain I speak for all (including Grandpa and EG) when I say that it is acknowledged and recognized that faith without works is dead. It really is no faith at all. Having said that, Christ said that He is the vine ... and we are the branches. We can do nothing (good, that is) without Him. So what other requirements are there that one must accept when the good works that we do happen only because of Christ first living within us anyways ? Faith is not granted us (yes, it truly is indeed His gift to us) because of our good works. Good works are the result of God's gift of faith in Christ Jesus. Not the other way around.

I can agree and say good works are a result of grace. I cannot agree that obedience is not required by God for the Christian.
"good works" or "bearing fruit" all have one purpose to "glorify our Father which is in heaven".

Obedience on the other hand is not a "good work' it is the duty of every Christian -Heb 5:9, Jn 14:15.

One cannot expect to have the hope of heaven, by believing only yet not obeying.

When one is not a Christian, and wants to become such (already believing of course) what does the Bible say to those?
Acts 2:38 "repent and be baptized". this is not trying to earn something, it is obeying what God has just said.

What is told to those who are already Christians concerning salvation?
walk in the light, stay in the light, one who goes back to sin, is one who chooses the world over salvation.

[Red33]

[quote=feedm3;630961]

You might understand these commands better if you keep them it's context.

Jesus commanded his disciples to "go out into all the world", meaning go to all nations, not only Jewish.
Are we to do this? sure. We must teach and make disciples, do I have to travel around the world to do such? No, I find plenty of lost souls right in the area in which I live.

If we do not keep these commands in their context, then we also have a command not to teach anyone but Jews:
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So we see, by the context the command is understood, they were only to go to Israel (limited commission) and later told to "go into all the world" (Great commission.)

Love thy neighbor as thyself, in it's context is not speaking of the house next door. But telling the Jews they were to love the Gentiles (neighboring countries and cities) as thyself (as a they would love another Jew).

So when we look at what they mean according to the context, we can measure up to what is commanded:
Teach the gospel, anywhere you are, if you feel the need to travel far off, fine.
Love thy neighbor - respect all races and people, and do not feel any person cannot be made a child of God. This is what the commands are speaking of in the context they are found.

When we use them to mean I must love the man next door, we are taking them out of context.
Not saying we can hate the man next door, but still that is not the idea behind what Christ spoke in that particular passage.

Whatever gave to idea that going into all the world meant something other than going to all nations (Jew and Gentile) starting in your own Jerusalem , Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth? Are you obeying that commandment with fervency or are you delinquent and negligent in turning many to righteousness and in telling every creature, including your next door neighbor (Jew or Gentile), of the glorious gospel that brought salvation to you by grace in your sinful state of darkness? According to your understanding of repentance relating to the acts and commission of sin, do you also apply that same understanding to your disobedience when you neglect the commandments and leave some of them out through omission? You should also be guilty of sin in neglecting the commandments and lose salvation likewise.

With your doctrine that allows for the loss of your salvation through not repenting of those sins of commission or omission and in not keeping the commandments, it would be impossible to renew you again unto repentance and you would remain loss forever. If you plan to be saved forever, you better keep ALL the commandments perfectly, because God's salvation is perfect. You have no excuse of those commandments you may be ignorant of, for God would also hold you responsible, for they have been recorded and written for our understanding. Make sure, under your doctrine, that you examine yourself thoroughly that you are in the faith by keeping ALL the commandments perfectly with every jot and tittle and that your repentance is also perfect and up to date in every area of your life of obedience. If you think this is ridiculous, what is God thinking of those that put others under this kind of yoke?

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Avinu

1 John 2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does NOT keep HIS commandments, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, And His commandments are NOT burdensome.

No matter how you twist it, God's word says what it says, and you will not get away from it, you will answer to God for taking His commandments lightly.

Matthew 5:19a "Whosoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called lest in the kingdom of heaven;

How are Gods commandments kept?

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by feedm3

This is a teaching about pride and humility, not in obeying and disobeying. It is not teaching us if we obey we are a Pharisee, and if we disobey we justified because of our disobedience. That is just plain silly and blasphemous

Yes it is a teaching about pride and humility. The one who was prideful was following the flesh. The flesh is prideful.

The one that was humble was following the spirit.

It is not silly. It is at the very core of what Christianity is. The person who thinks he is "keeping the Law of God" by his actions is prideful. He will brow beat all those around him and seem to say everyone else around him is not as righteous as him.

The person who knows they need a Saviour and knows they are sinful are the ones that can humble themselves enough to allow God to lead them to righteousness through the Spirit.

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by becausehedied

Ok so faith/belief is not a work?

Can you prove your point from any other Scriptures or are you afraid to leave the book of Ephesians?

wow are you serious?

John 6, the words of Christ, IT IS THE WORK OF GOD that YOU BELIEVE in the ONE HE SENT.

Any more questions?? Are you now going to Call Jesus a liar too?

You see if your view contradicts other scriptures then your conclusion of what Paul is saying in Ephesians is incorrect.

It is? Then why can't you prove it in eph, by showing me what he said, with scripture? ALl you doing by just saying I am wrong, is drive me further from your belief. You don't tell someone they are wrong with attacks, and no prove, Freedom did that, and had found himself on ignore for the third time now!

God said you show truth, if they do what you all are doing, wipe the dust off your feet.

Your conclusion drawn must be in harmony with the over all teachings of the Bible.

Well then show me wrong, Did Paul tell the ephesians a different gospel then he told the opther churches? how many gospels are there??

Can a person be saved if they do not know God?

Did you know your father when you were born? Paul called the corinthians babes. how can a babe really know their father?

Yet you teach that one is saved then they obey God.
This would be just like my illustration.
You would expect to be paid before you ever preformed your duty.

And again you would be wrong, When I am hired by a company, I still do not expect to get paid until I work. Why are you fighting this??

Gods commands are not works, they are commandments.
Luke 17:10
When we have done all that was our duty to do, we are still unprofitable servants, you have only done what was required of you.

Are Gods commands a requirement or a meritorious work?

Can Gods commands save us? Or make our life on earth better? Do you ebven know the difference? Do you understand why God said do not covet? If you did, You would understand Gods commands are not hard, they are for our benefit.

You can look and see how they were saved, but if you only use Ephesians and no other book of the Bible you easily could come away with the wrong idea.

So your telling me probably many ephesians went to their death having only read the book Paul wrote them, and having done what he said and are lost because they did nto have access to these other books? WOW

Your also telling us Paul lied to the ephesians and taught them a different gospel. Having done the very thing he condemned in galations 1.

I can only go by what you say as well so I suppose that is why the misunderstanding exists.
I do believe that being obedient to God is by any stretch of the imagination a work.

The law was to be obedient. Paul and many said it will never save you. So, I will take pauls words over yours. Thanks anyway

If a person is saved by faith only that was the question and that which you confirmed.

Websters Dictionary
Only
ONLY, a.

1. Single; one along; as, John was the only man present.

2. This and no other. This is an only child.

3. This above all others. He is the only man for music.

ONLY, adv.

1. Singly; merely; barely; in one manner or for one purpose along.

I purpose my thoughts only as conjectures.

And to be loved himself, needs only to be known.

2. This and no other wise.

Every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6.

3. Singly; without more; as only-begotten.

The definition of only is that and nothing else.

Yet Paul expressly says that one is saved by Grace.
Also, if it is faith only, what about the sacrifice of Christ?

So is one saved by Faith alone plus nothing or is one saved by Grace only, or both.
If it is both then one is not saved by faith only, there are other factors.

wow. ok I have absolutely no clue what your saying here. this is just a bunch of giberish

Did Paul say we are saved by grace through faith apart from works, or did he say we are saved by grace through faith and works??

faith apart from works equals faith alone. Case closed!

HOW DOES A PERSON ATTAIN FAITH?

Eph 1: 13 - 14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

There should be no question. But just in case;

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

there. Two different churches were told the same thing!

HOW DOES ONE KNOW WHEN THEY ARE SAVED?

When they trust God to keep his promise. that is why it is called FAITH. If your faith is in yourself obeying Gods commands and being good enough. You will NEVER KNOW

IS OBEDIENCE NECESSARY TO BE SAVED? YES OR NO?

Obedience of the gospel. yes. Obedience of the law (weorks of righteousness) NO!

What does the gospel say?

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Not by obedience to Gods commands, which ARE works of righteousness. But by the washing of the spirit (baptism of the spirit)

Acts 13:39 - And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

By believe we are declaried innocent (forgiven all sin) from ALL things?? where are the works??

Rom 3:20 - 24..Therfore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified. For by the law is knowledge of sin. but now the rightiousness of God apart from the law is revealed being witnessed by the law and the prophets even the rightiousness of God through faith in Christ to all on on all who believe for their is no difference. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. being justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption in Christ Jesus.

Faith, Belief, Freely give, Grace. Any more questions? where are the works??


Rom 6 : 8 - 11 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If God lives, I will live. I know I have eternal life. why do you question it.

I could go on and on. You asked for more passages, there you have it. Keep on questioning scripture if you want. That is between you and God

[eternally-gratefull]

[quote=becausehedied;630860]God is illustrated through Scripture in human terms so that man can understand the things that He has revealed to us. So why is my illustration faulty?

I am not trying to make him a human by no means.

So if God comes to you and offers the gift where you stand, and you have to do nothing as you say.
Would not accepting the gift in faith illustrate you doing something? Or am i twisting your words again.

Again I refere you to the word of Christ. It is the work of God (not a work of man or ourselves) that we have faith in him. (john 6)

If it is a free gift as you understand it, then will every one be saved?
If not how does God choose who will be saved?

????

Will everyone have faith in the work of Christ through the gospel?

you are starting to confuse yourself it appears.

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by Avinu

Forgive me EG, I don't mean to be ignorant, are you asking for my help on this verse?

I am asking you to place it in context with what you posted concerning the previous verses concerning "falling away" Because the "near to being cursed" would be the context of what the author is talking about. Maybe I do not understand what "near" means?

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by Avinu

Amen, we cannot be saved by them, it is because we have received the free gift of salvation that we honor YHVH by keeping the rules of His house.

Yes, we honor him this way. But more importantly. when we realize WHY he says no. And that he wants what is best for us. we do not work to do it, it becomes natural. As he said, his commands are not burdensom

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by IMINJC

Eternally-Grateful

You said:

Again, all your opinion. Again I ask you. do you ever sin? Then you are not doing the will of the father. Do you ever not do what God asks? Scripture states if you know to do right, and yet do not do it, it is sin. I think if you really looked at the word, and really understood what sin is. You would fin you sin multiple times a day.

Of course I have sinned since I have been saved...I REPENT and move on...its called the Christian walk, growing to maturity. What we are talking about with the story of the Prodigal Son is completely backsliding and walking away from God, or making a choice to live in unrepented sin. You nor I have walked away from God, nor have we made a decision to live in unrepented sin..at least I havn't.To think that anyone who has made this decision is still saved and can look forward to eternal life with the Lord in heaven is not only unscriptural but lunacy. I can honestly say that today I dont live a life where Im sinning multiple times in a day as I once did as a Christian..what I learned was that Jesus not only saved me, He made me righteous. I found that whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Did he set me free to willfully sin to the max without fear of eternal damnation?...God forbid..What did He set me free from? Jesus set me free from the curse of the Law..the curse was that men had to obey the law in order to be declared righteous. Sounds fair...problem was it was impossible to do. Upon my faith in what Jesus did for me on the cross, Jesus declared me righteous without me having to carry out the requirements of the law...go figure. The reason that I can obey Christ and go throughout my day without comitting multiple sins is because I believe I am who Christ made me... righteous. If I am truly righteous, I should be able to say no to sin on a progressive and eventually.. as I grow in the Lord..a continuouse basis. You suggest that I get an understanding of sin..I suggest that you get an understanding of righteousness. You are the one my friend that is still entangled bythe effects of the law..not me...because you still have the slave mind set that you are destined to sin so why fight it...that is the entanglement of the law. I've been set free! The Church needs to know who Christ made them...instead of confessing that they are just sinners saved by grace, (destined to continuousely sin the rest of their lives) they should start confessing that they are the righteousness of God made possible by His saving grace(destined to do righteous works the rest of their lives). A dog doesn't have to work at being a dog, it just flows out of it naturally. A cat doesn't have to work at being a cat, it just flows out of it naturally.. likewise, when you are convinced that you are righteous, righteous works will began to flow out of you naturally...but you must believe. This is why the Bible says for us to GIVE our bodies over to righteousness and not to GIVE our bodies over to sin..because we have been set free..we are no longer slaves to sin. We are in total control! Now if you belive that..then walk in it.

Here is the story of my God;

A son hated his father, hated his rules, hated everything about him. So he left and divorced himself from his father. for 10 years, the son never heard from the father, Then one day a man showed up at his door. He told the son his father had passed on, And he left the son his inheritance. The son said he did not know the man, and left him and never wanted to see him again. The man said that was fine, But his father loved him, and never left him, and as a son you still recieve the inheritance.

You see, a son never stops being a son. The father died before the son realized his love for his father and how much better it was when he was with him. But the father NEVER left the son.

Scripture says my father will NEVER leave nor forsake me. It also says, even when I am faithless, HE IS FAITHFULL, he can't DENY HIMSELF. My salvation is based on HIS WORK, HIS DEATH, HIS REDEMPTION, HIS GIFT. Even if I leave due to lack of faith, and ignorance, he can not deny his promise. for he would be denying himself

[2knowhim]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

Here is the story of my God;

A son hated his father, hated his rules, hated everything about him. So he left and divorced himself from his father. for 10 years, the son never heard from the father, Then one day a man showed up at his door. He told the son his father had passed on, And he left the son his inheritance. The son said he did not know the man, and left him and never wanted to see him again. The man said that was fine, But his father loved him, and never left him, and as a son you still recieve the inheritance.

You see, a son never stops being a son. The father died before the son realized his love for his father and how much better it was when he was with him. But the father NEVER left the son.

Scripture says my father will NEVER leave nor forsake me. It also says, even when I am faithless, HE IS FAITHFULL, he can't DENY HIMSELF. My salvation is based on HIS WORK, HIS DEATH, HIS REDEMPTION, HIS GIFT. Even if I leave due to lack of faith, and ignorance, he can not deny his promise. for he would be denying himself

That was very nice, very nice indeed.

How I wish you could see this In Christ for every man though.

Blessings

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by Zilla64007

this entire discussion of the state of salvation comes down into two categories:

1. Man is responsible for his actions because God has given man free will.
2. Man is not responsible for his actions because God has pre-determined, fore-ordained, and ultimately pre-destined every single thought and action, both voluntary and involuntary, before time began.

which side do you fall under?

personally, I believe God created us in His Image, and gave us free will.

God gave us free will.

Those who chose to trust and receive his gift will HAVE eternal life. and never be able to be plucked , or even pluck themselves out of the hand of their father. Those who reject will be eternally condemned, because they rejected the only gift which could ever save them.

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by Grandpa

Yes it is a teaching about pride and humility. The one who was prideful was following the flesh. The flesh is prideful.

The one that was humble was following the spirit.

It is not silly. It is at the very core of what Christianity is. The person who thinks he is "keeping the Law of God" by his actions is prideful. He will brow beat all those around him and seem to say everyone else around him is not as righteous as him.

The person who knows they need a Saviour and knows they are sinful are the ones that can humble themselves enough to allow God to lead them to righteousness through the Spirit.

And thus the difference between a true Child of God, and a phariseeicle legalistic person who thinks he can be righteous enough to earn salvation, or will lose what was freely given to them because they fail to live up to some magical hidden standard, they they can't even state what it is themselves.

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by unclefester

Thanks for this reminder in truth Red. God bless

Galations 5:14 (NIV)
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Hey Unc!! Hope all is well with ya my brother!!