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Man this topic has been thrashed.
Anyway.. yah I beileve in once saved always saved. I don't even believe someone can leave God of their own will. Since He won't leave them.. then they can't leave Him!
Key thing is when looking at verses.. gotta sort what 'save' means in the context of them.
for eg.
'he who endures to the end will be saved'
The context of this verse is not about receiving eternal life.. not about eternal salvation but being delivered from harsh times.
'Faith without works is dead'
This verse in context isn't about saving faith.. but the faith walk.. acts of service AFTER being eternally saved.
Hebrews 6-
Whole context of chapter is about what happens AFTER someone has already been eternally saved. About going on to maturity.. going on to taking the full meat of the Word etc..
So when you see 'it is impossible to renew them to repentance'-- it is impossible cos they have already been eternally delivered. Been signed sealed and delivered already so can't do it again.
some verses to think about
John 5:24
John 10:28-29
Romans chapter 10
Ephesians 2:8-9
John 3:16
just a small snippet of a vast range of verses showing eternal life given-- means ETERNAL
Anyway.. yah I beileve in once saved always saved. I don't even believe someone can leave God of their own will. Since He won't leave them.. then they can't leave Him!
Key thing is when looking at verses.. gotta sort what 'save' means in the context of them.
for eg.
'he who endures to the end will be saved'
The context of this verse is not about receiving eternal life.. not about eternal salvation but being delivered from harsh times.
'Faith without works is dead'
This verse in context isn't about saving faith.. but the faith walk.. acts of service AFTER being eternally saved.
Hebrews 6-
Whole context of chapter is about what happens AFTER someone has already been eternally saved. About going on to maturity.. going on to taking the full meat of the Word etc..
So when you see 'it is impossible to renew them to repentance'-- it is impossible cos they have already been eternally delivered. Been signed sealed and delivered already so can't do it again.
some verses to think about
John 5:24
John 10:28-29
Romans chapter 10
Ephesians 2:8-9
John 3:16
just a small snippet of a vast range of verses showing eternal life given-- means ETERNAL
R
This is how I feel....Jesus came and died on the cross.....if you can get saved and then it be taken away, then how do you know when you truly are or not??? You will always have doubt and doubt is not from the Lord, for he is peace!.....God knows that we are sinners and that we are going to fall, and scriptures say, that he never leaves us.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD. Do you think when we get saved, and we fall, that God is going to take back his gift? What is he going to do? give it and take it, give it and take it???? LOL no!!!!!
Jesus died a gruesome death for us, not to always worry if we are saved or not, thats what forgivness and being washed is for. We are made new!!!! If we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and repent then we are saved!!!! We are made new, we are born again. What do we do, keep getting reborn????
It also says that we are written in the book of life........well, im sure Gods not there with a big ole eraser all the time!!!! or white out!!!!! lol
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD. Do you think when we get saved, and we fall, that God is going to take back his gift? What is he going to do? give it and take it, give it and take it???? LOL no!!!!!
Jesus died a gruesome death for us, not to always worry if we are saved or not, thats what forgivness and being washed is for. We are made new!!!! If we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and repent then we are saved!!!! We are made new, we are born again. What do we do, keep getting reborn????
It also says that we are written in the book of life........well, im sure Gods not there with a big ole eraser all the time!!!! or white out!!!!! lol
T
That saying once saved always saved is not true because look if im a born again Christian by water and by Spirit like John 3:3-5 says and then after I do that go back to my sinning ways I was doing before I knew Christ and stay like that until I die then I will be going to hell the Bible says its better to not have known Him than to know Him and leave him.thats what Scripture says.also if we are once save always save then it sounds like all I have to do is do what acts 2:38 says and John 3:3 n 5 says then I can go live whatever life I want as bad as I want and expect when I die get into Heaven sorry it doesn't work like that if thats the case then e everyone would be saved just do these few things and then go live how u want everyone would do it and it doesn't work that way if u do that when u die God will ask u why did u leave me then what r u gonna say and if u stayed in ur bad wYs when u died without repenting for all u done while u were still living then truth be told u aren't going to Heaven
yes, the Word says He never leaves us.. but we can leave Him, when we continue in sin, or fall away from false doctrine
not entirely true... we forfeit what He has given us freely. we forfeit it by our own actions (Hebrews 6:1-6, Hebrews 10:25-26, 1 Corinthians 9:26-27, Revelation 2-3)
no, we dont keep being "reborn"... when we turn away completely, we spiritually die, just like King Saul and Demas did
Revelation 2:8-10
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’
if we are once saved always saved, there is no reason to be faithful or to overcome, for once we're saved, we're always saved, and no sin, no matter how big or small, not even the unforgivable sin, can separate us from God!... or... we are kept through faith (1 Peter 1:5), we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8), and only through abiding in Christ (John 15:1-6) do we have life (1 John 5:12)
1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
according to OSAS, this church is not dead, for one can NEVER lose their salvation!
according to v5, only those who overcome in this dead church will God not blot out their name... but also issues a warning, that if they continue, their names WILL be blotted out
Romans 11:19-24
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
these verses weigh heavily on the doctrine of OSAS. v5 is not talking about people who were once Christians. This verse is talking about grafting the Jews back into the Israel of God, the Church, the Bride of Christ
our salvation is in Christ and only in Christ, and no one else. our salvation comes by continually abiding in Christ, and in Christ alone.
not entirely true... we forfeit what He has given us freely. we forfeit it by our own actions (Hebrews 6:1-6, Hebrews 10:25-26, 1 Corinthians 9:26-27, Revelation 2-3)
Jesus died a gruesome death for us, not to always worry if we are saved or not, thats what forgivness and being washed is for. We are made new!!!! If we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and repent then we are saved!!!! We are made new, we are born again. What do we do, keep getting reborn????
Revelation 2:8-10
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’
if we are once saved always saved, there is no reason to be faithful or to overcome, for once we're saved, we're always saved, and no sin, no matter how big or small, not even the unforgivable sin, can separate us from God!... or... we are kept through faith (1 Peter 1:5), we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8), and only through abiding in Christ (John 15:1-6) do we have life (1 John 5:12)
1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
according to OSAS, this church is not dead, for one can NEVER lose their salvation!
according to v5, only those who overcome in this dead church will God not blot out their name... but also issues a warning, that if they continue, their names WILL be blotted out
Romans 11:19-24
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
these verses weigh heavily on the doctrine of OSAS. v5 is not talking about people who were once Christians. This verse is talking about grafting the Jews back into the Israel of God, the Church, the Bride of Christ
our salvation is in Christ and only in Christ, and no one else. our salvation comes by continually abiding in Christ, and in Christ alone.
L
Revelation 3:5
(5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
According to this verse our names can be taken out of the book of life
Revelation 20:15
(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 14:7
(7) Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
There is a judgment taken place before Jesus comes, before He comes all cases will have been decided either for eternal life or eternal death
(5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
According to this verse our names can be taken out of the book of life
Revelation 20:15
(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 14:7
(7) Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
There is a judgment taken place before Jesus comes, before He comes all cases will have been decided either for eternal life or eternal death
S
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name we cast out demons, and in Your name we did many mighty works?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will confess to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you who work iniquity!'
From the horses mouth.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name we cast out demons, and in Your name we did many mighty works?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will confess to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you who work iniquity!'
From the horses mouth.
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A
First off our Savior is not really comparable to a "horse." But secondly, the people in question in this passage were people who Jesus NEVER KNEW. They did not lose their salvation. They never had it to begin with. There is not one example of any person in scripture who lost their salvation. If it were possible, it would be included in the Bible.
A
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. - John 17
Jesus knew Judas was going to betray Him. Judas was never a believer. He was evil and an infiltrator. Jesus calls Judas a "devil" clearly indicating his true nature. But Jesus permitted Judas to stay around because Judas was fulfilling Old Testament scripture regarding Jesus being betrayed. So he was not saved and then lost his salvation. He was never saved to begin with.
Again, there is not one example of this in scripture.
A
YES! That's exactly what I'm saying. And let me get even deeper: if you are saved and you think you are not sinning, you are deceiving yourself. All born again Christians will sin again. Until we have our perfected bodies, we still have our corrupted flesh, whose nature is to sin.
Paul addresses this very issue 4 times in his epistles. One example is Romans 6:
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
As born again Christians, of course we can sin. But if we are truly loving God and our Savior Jesus Christ, and our His servants, we will choose not to sin. It's no different than marriage. Once you are married, do you have to respect your spouse, be faithful, kind, etc.? NO. No one is putting a gun to your head. It's a choice to be kind and faithful out of love for that person. Not because you will go to jail if you are disrespectful.
This is the life of a Christian. We are commanded to "crucify the flesh." Why? Because we still have potential for sin. We are told to "be a living sacrifice." Implying once again that we must CHOOSE to foresake sin and choose to follow Christ. Jesus tells us to "pick up our cross." He saves us. But we have to choose to deny ourselves and follow Him.
So yes, we can sin and NOT lose our salvation. If that were the standard, I assure you every Christian would have lost it. Myself first and foremost. God bless.
Paul addresses this very issue 4 times in his epistles. One example is Romans 6:
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
As born again Christians, of course we can sin. But if we are truly loving God and our Savior Jesus Christ, and our His servants, we will choose not to sin. It's no different than marriage. Once you are married, do you have to respect your spouse, be faithful, kind, etc.? NO. No one is putting a gun to your head. It's a choice to be kind and faithful out of love for that person. Not because you will go to jail if you are disrespectful.
This is the life of a Christian. We are commanded to "crucify the flesh." Why? Because we still have potential for sin. We are told to "be a living sacrifice." Implying once again that we must CHOOSE to foresake sin and choose to follow Christ. Jesus tells us to "pick up our cross." He saves us. But we have to choose to deny ourselves and follow Him.
So yes, we can sin and NOT lose our salvation. If that were the standard, I assure you every Christian would have lost it. Myself first and foremost. God bless.
L
King Saul is another example of someone who was born again and fell away
1 Samuel 10:6
(6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
1 Samuel 11:6
(6) And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.
1 Samuel 16:14
(14) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
These texts clearly show that Saul was born again but, because of wrong choices he will be lost
1 Samuel 10:6
(6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
1 Samuel 11:6
(6) And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.
1 Samuel 16:14
(14) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
These texts clearly show that Saul was born again but, because of wrong choices he will be lost
T
I agree u can sin and not lose ur salvation but what im saying is this someone knows God and follows him and is baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost and does good for some time but then that person leaves God goes against his word commits all types of sin and fornication and fights people for no reason a.d completely goes against God let's say they worship the devil for example after they used to worship God then before that person repents they die are u saying their going to heaven for ever because they used to follow God even though they left him did all these bad things and never repented for it then they die but yet their still in heaven?