The Day of The Lord - The Event that Starts the End of the World

[A-Omega]

"The timing of the Rapture, the end times supernatural removal of all Christians on Earth to meet Jesus in the clouds, is a hotly debated subject in Christianity. The Beginning and End Rapture Series will examine the Rapture, what it is and when it takes place in the Biblical prophetic timeline. But in addition to knowing when in the Bible the Rapture occurs, it is equally, if not important to know why. Why is there a need for a Rapture? What is God’s purpose in doing this? The Day of The Lord is one of those reasons that the Rapture must take place."

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The Day of The Lord -- The Event That Starts The End of The World

 

[Avinu]

The Day of the LORD is definitely defining to the end of the era of goyim(gentiles) and the beginning of Messiah's reign as King for a millenium. Here I have scripture (that is commonly used for pre-trib belief) here I've used some of those very scriptures to prove it falisy.

AS MOST OF US KNOW, 1 COR. 15:52 IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AT THE LAST TRUMPET. FOR THE TRUMPET WILL SOUND, AND THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. AND 1 THESS. 4:16-17 16) FOR THE LORD HIMSELF WILL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN WITH A SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF AN ARCH ANGEL, AND WITH THE TRUMPET OF GOD. AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST. 17) THEN WE WHO ARE AL...IVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. AND THUS WE SHALL ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD. AS MOST OF US KNOW THAT THESE ARE 2 OF MOST USED AND FAVORITE PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE FOR PRE-TRIB EVIDENCE. SO LETS LOOK AT 1 CORINTHIANS FIRST, IN IT, IT SAYS AT THE 'LAST' TRUMP. THE GREEK WORD FOR LAST IS 'ESCHATOS' WHICH MEANS, (FARTHEST, FINAL, LAST, UTTERMOST. SO HERE THIS VERSE SAYS AT THE FINAL TRUMP, THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE. HMMMM. NOW LETS LOOK AT 1 THESS. IN VERSE 16, THE WORD DESCEND IN THE GREEK IS 'KATABAINO' MEANING TO COME DOWN FROM, SO THIS MEANS YESHUA IS COMING DOWN FROM. ALSO IN VERSE 16, "WITH A SHOUT" THE GREEK WORD 'KELEUMA' WHICH MEANS A CRY OF INCITEMENT' SO NOT A SILENT EVENT. V.17 "WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN" THE WORD REMAIN IN THE GREEK IS 'PERILEIPO' WHICH MEANS TO LEAVE ALL AROUND, SURVIVE' HMMM, WHO HAVE SURVIVED. NOW LETS LOOK AT REV. 20:4-5 4)AND I SAW THRONES, AND THEY SAT ON THEM, AND JUDGEMENT WAS COMMITTED TO THEM. THEN I SAW THE SOULS OF THOSE WHO HAD BEEN BEHEADED FOR THEIR WITNESS TO YESHUA AND FOR THE WORD OF YHVH, WHO HAD NOT WORSHIPED THE BEAST OR HIS IMAGE, AND HAD NOT RECEIVED HIS MARK ON THEIR FORHEADS OR ON THEIR HANDS. AND THEY LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YRS. 5) BUT THE REST OF THE DEADDID NOT LIVE AGAIN UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. SO HERE IN REVELATION 20 IT IS TELLING US THAT THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED IN THE TRIBULATION AND DIDN'T TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST WERE A PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION, WHICH GOES ALONG WITH 1 THESS. 4 ABOUT THE DEAD WILL RISE FIRST, WHICH GOES ALONG WITH 1 COR. 15 AT THE LAST TRUMP AND THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORUPTIBLE. THE KEY HERE IS THAT THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED ARE A PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION. THEN THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THERE COULDN'T BE A RAPTURE OF THE SAINTS BEFORE THE TRIB. IF THEY ARE A PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION. WHICH WOULD THEN FOLLOW WITH HEBREWS 9:28 SO MESSIAH WAS OFFERED ONCE TO BEAR THE SINS OF MANY. TO THOSE WHO EAGERLY WAIT FOR HIM HE WILL APPEAR A SECOND TIME, APART FROM SIN, FOR SALVATION. SO ALL THIS TELLS US THAT YESHUA WILL COME A SECOND TIME, AND THE FIRST RESURRECTION IS NOT UNTIL THOSE WHO ARE BEHEADED IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION. THAT MEANS THAT PRE-TRIB IS A LIE. SCRIPTURE BACKS UP SCRIPTURE, BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHINGS. SHALOM

 

[A-Omega]

How do you interpret these verses?

Luke 21: 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 2:22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[mori]

Luke 21: 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Just a comment on this verse, as the others are relatively clear. "To escape" does not necessarily mean to pass through without harm or before something has begun. The same word is used in Acts 19:16, for instance, but there the escapees are naked and wounded.

 

[Avinu]

Luke 21: 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 2:22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Mori made a excellent point, also Noah and his family escaped from being destroyed, but they never left the earth. Lot was told to leave the city, but he still stayed on the earth.

Psalm 91:7-8 And a thousand shall fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come nigh thee, for you shall watch and see the punishment of the wicked.

I fully agree with what those 3 scriptures say, but they don't say we will be rapture out. YHVH doesn't have to 'rapture us out' for us to be kept safe. Shalom

 

[A-Omega]

Mori made a excellent point, also Noah and his family escaped from being destroyed, but they never left the earth. Lot was told to leave the city, but he still stayed on the earth.

Psalm 91:7-8 And a thousand shall fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come nigh thee, for you shall watch and see the punishment of the wicked.

I fully agree with what those 3 scriptures say, but they don't say we will be rapture out. YHVH doesn't have to 'rapture us out' for us to be kept safe. Shalom

This is the great contradiction of post-tribulation rapture theory I do not comprehend. Are you saying Christians are supernaturally protected during the Great Tribulation??

 

[A-Omega]

Just a comment on this verse, as the others are relatively clear. "To escape" does not necessarily mean to pass through without harm or before something has begun. The same word is used in Acts 19:16, for instance, but there the escapees are naked and wounded.

16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.


Notice the passage does not say they escaped "without harm" so it cannot be the same thing. The clear context of Luke 21:36 is Jesus saying that Christians will escape "all these things that shall come to pass." The word "escape" on its own does not mean "escape without harm." Jesus makes it clear that in His passage He does indeed mean "without harm." Hope that makes sense. God bless.

 

[Avinu]

This is the great contradiction of post-tribulation rapture theory I do not comprehend. Are you saying Christians are supernaturally protected during the Great Tribulation??

No, not during the devils wrath poured out on the saints, as indicated in Rev. 12 and 13. A number beyond count of saints will be beheaded during that time. But when YHVH pours His wrath out at the end of tribulation on the wicked of the world, that is where Psalm 91:7-8 will come into play. Shalom

 

[Avinu]

16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.


Notice the passage does not say they escaped "without harm" so it cannot be the same thing. The clear context of Luke 21:36 is Jesus saying that Christians will escape "all these things that shall come to pass." The word "escape" on its own does not mean "escape without harm." Jesus makes it clear that in His passage He does indeed mean "without harm." Hope that makes sense. God bless.

I agree, does not mean escape without harm, no arguement. But this verse, these brothers weren't even christians, they thought they could do what Paul was doing, and had no clue what they were even messing with. They're lucky they didn't lose their lives over it. lol. Shalom

 

[mori]

Notice the passage does not say they escaped "without harm" so it cannot be the same thing. The clear context of Luke 21:36 is Jesus saying that Christians will escape "all these things that shall come to pass." The word "escape" on its own does not mean "escape without harm." Jesus makes it clear that in His passage He does indeed mean "without harm." Hope that makes sense. God bless.

I suppose I don't see that. You listed only the verse itself originally, so I'm curious what in the passage makes that clear.

 

[A-Omega]

No, not during the devils wrath poured out on the saints, as indicated in Rev. 12 and 13. A number beyond count of saints will be beheaded during that time. But when YHVH pours His wrath out at the end of tribulation on the wicked of the world, that is where Psalm 91:7-8 will come into play. Shalom

Once again, the post-trib model has to have it both ways to work. You absolutely cannot claim that the days of Noah are supportive of this model. Noah did not suffer during the flood. In fact the Bible states that Noah was ABOVE the waters of the flood on the surface for the whole time.

You cannot say the saints are "killed but then protected." It's just a complete contradiction. And the post-trib model cannot reconcile this with scripture. Believe me, I have heard Post-tribbers claim both things many, many times. And it just does not make sense.

 

[A-Omega]

I agree, does not mean escape without harm, no arguement. But this verse, these brothers weren't even christians, they thought they could do what Paul was doing, and had no clue what they were even messing with. They're lucky they didn't lose their lives over it. lol. Shalom

You are confusing the point, I believe. I was not drawing a comparison between Paul and those men in Acts. I am comparing the use of the word in Greek for escape and its grammatical application. That is all. And my point is that escape does not inherently mean "without harm." You can escape unharmed or you can escape with devastating injury. Escape requires a modifier in those instances which Jesus provides. He says "escape ALL THESE THINGS." Meaning the saints will suffer none of what He details in the end of Luke 21.

 

[A-Omega]

I suppose I don't see that. You listed only the verse itself originally, so I'm curious what in the passage makes that clear.

7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? 8And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
1...
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.



Jesus lists the events that will take place during the Day of The Lord/70th week. He then emphasizes that it is possible to be "caught off guard" by this. This is a MAJOR point. If this was the Second Coming, whether a saint knew Jesus was coming or not would be irrelevant because it's all over! Amrageddon lasts a few seconds and the Messianic Kingdom begins. But it is not the Second Coming. It is a reference to the day of the Lord, which comes "as a thief". And it happens at the opening of the 6th Seal.



And Jesus is informing the saints that if they are "accounted worthy" they will escape all these things. This verse makes zero sense in reference to the Second Coming or the end of the Great Tribulation, when all saints will obviously be a part of the Messianic Kingdom. it is talking about missing the rapture or being a part of it where you get to stand in front of the Son of Man and be in His presence forever. Hope that makes sense. God bless.

 

[Avinu]

You cannot say the saints are "killed but then protected." It's just a complete contradiction. And the post-trib model cannot reconcile this with scripture. Believe me, I have heard Post-tribbers claim both things many, many times. And it just does not make sense.

I don't know why this is hard to understand, show me what is contradicting. When the devil's wrath is poured out on the inhabitants of the earth, as it says in Rev. 12:12, 13:7. So most of the saints will be killed at this time, but not all. Then the last part of tribulation which Rev. also clearly describes as YHVH's wrath being poured out on the wicked of the world, those who took the mark, and those who continue to refuse to repent. Now YHVH is not going to allow His saints who have suffered at the hands of the devil via the anti-christ but have survived, to suffer His wrath that they are not recipients of. That is where Psalm 91:7-8 comes in. I don't know how easier to put this my friend.

 

[mori]

Escape requires a modifier in those instances which Jesus provides. He says "escape ALL THESE THINGS." Meaning the saints will suffer none of what He details in the end of Luke 21.

That doesn't seem to be sufficient. My point above is that you can escape things yet still incur injury from the things you've escaped. It doesn't matter how many things you escape, you still need some indication that you escape without harm. You can still incur injury from escaping all things. You're still reading "escape" as "escape unscathed." I still see no reason to. It may be useful to recognize that this word is also reasonably translated as "flee." Hence:

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to <flee> all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

In other words, keep your head up so you know when to get out of there. It may help you to read the verb as "survive by getting out of there." There's no indication, however, that it means "get out unscathed," even if you survive everything.

Keep in mind, the verb there is in the active. This escaping or fleeing is something you do, not something that's done to you. If Jesus meant to say that it was something done to you, he had the language available. A really disturbing example is the KJV translation of Acts 16:27:

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep and seeing the prison doors open he drew out his sword and would have killed himself supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

"Had been fled." Using the language of Luke, "had been escaped." In other words, someone helped the prisoners escape. This is facilitated by someone else; what Jesus is discussing in Luke isn't. You do the escaping.

 

[mori]

For some other examples of how the verb is used, here's a quote from the Odyssey, chapter 23, starting on line 231.

As the sight of land is welcome to men who are swimming towards the shore, when Poseidon has wrecked their ship with the fury of his winds and waves - a few alone reach the land, and these, covered with brine, are thankful when they find themselves on firm ground and out of danger - even so was her husband welcome to her as she looked upon him, and she could not tear her two fair arms from about his neck.

These guys escaped, but it wasn't some miraculous protection from all harm. In fact, their ship was wrecked and the sailors are pickled.

In Plato's Stateman, 268e, the stranger tells young Socrates that he hasn't "escaped" his childhood years. If escaping means not undergoing at all, then this is a ridiculous thing to say. The stranger clearly means escaping something by surviving through it, however.

 

[peterT]

How do you interpret these verses?



Revelation 3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

If you die before the tribulation starts then this verse is fulfilled in you ear.

 

[A-Omega]

If you die before the tribulation starts then this verse is fulfilled in you ear.

So the reward for the most faithful Christians on the planet is that Jesus is going to personally make sure they die en masse before the Great Tribulation? The text just doesn't say this. That seems to be adding way too much.

 

[A-Omega]

I don't know why this is hard to understand, show me what is contradicting. When the devil's wrath is poured out on the inhabitants of the earth, as it says in Rev. 12:12, 13:7. So most of the saints will be killed at this time, but not all. Then the last part of tribulation which Rev. also clearly describes as YHVH's wrath being poured out on the wicked of the world, those who took the mark, and those who continue to refuse to repent. Now YHVH is not going to allow His saints who have suffered at the hands of the devil via the anti-christ but have survived, to suffer His wrath that they are not recipients of. That is where Psalm 91:7-8 comes in. I don't know how easier to put this my friend.

Your point is now very clear to me. So thank you. But this means that you cannot use the comparisons of the days of Noah or the Days of Lot, which Jesus states, because both men were 100% protected and safe during God's wrath. So your position loses its Biblical support.

 

[Avinu]

Your point is now very clear to me. So thank you. But this means that you cannot use the comparisons of the days of Noah or the Days of Lot, which Jesus states, because both men were 100% protected and safe during God's wrath. So your position loses its Biblical support.

My friend, I just don't get why you can't see what I'm saying. The devil will be allowed to kill most of the saints during trib. by beheading mostly. But as we know not all will be killed. But @ the end of tribulation, just before Yeshua returns Yah will pour out His wrath upon the wicked of the earth, and many of them will die, but because we belong to Yah, His wrath will not be allowed to touch us. Just as His wrath was not allowed to touch Israel when He poured those plagues on Egypt, which ironically the tribulation has almost the exact same plagues minus a couple. I ask you, why is it so hard to believe this? You believe all the miracles in the Bible right? So why is it hard to believe this? Shalom