Couple of questions

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C

CBM82

Guest
#1
Do you believe healing's are guaranteed if you have enough faith?

Do you believe God knows everything you will do and every decision you will make before you make it?

I personally feel the answer is no to both questions. If God always knows the decisions we will make before we make them why does he give us so many ultimatums? We might as well just fast forward to judgement day.

And if healing's are guaranteed if your faith is strong enough, then you could be immortal in the flesh if you had perfect faith.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
Do you believe healing's are guaranteed if you have enough faith?
No. otherwise there would be alot of people still alive. Sometimes God choses not to heal people even if we have much Faith God will. for his own purpose. which we may not know or understand

Do you believe God knows everything you will do and every decision you will make before you make it?
Yes, it is called the omniscience of God.

I personally feel the answer is no to both questions. If God always knows the decisions we will make before we make them why does he give us so many ultimatums? We might as well just fast forward to judgement day.

I don't understand. what do you mean? Does God remove free will?


And if healing's are guaranteed if your faith is strong enough, then you could be immortal in the flesh if you had perfect faith.
Agreed
 
C

CBM82

Guest
#3
No. otherwise there would be alot of people still alive. Sometimes God choses not to heal people even if we have much Faith God will. for his own purpose. which we may not know or understand



Yes, it is called the omniscience of God.



I don't understand. what do you mean? Does God remove free will?




Agreed
Why does God always say IF you do this or IF you do that. He's giving us a choice and its like he doesn't know what choice we will make. Did he know Satan was going to fall when he created him? wouldnt it be Gods fault for creating him in the first place if this is so? Why did God choose Moses to deliver his people out of Egypt and then seek to kill him when he knew his sons were not circumcised....almost like it was unexpected and God had a change of plans. I'm not doubting the power of God....just asking a fair question.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#4
23 O Lord, I know the way of man is not in himself; It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. (Jeremiah 10:23)

Do you believe God knows everything you will do and every decision you will make before you make it?
If God doesn't know this, then He is neither omniscient (all-knowing) nor omnipotent (all-powerful). Yet the Bible says He is both (Psalm 115:3). In fact, it tells us explicitly that God knows all things.

17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep. (John 21:17)

20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. (1 John 3:20)

Since He knows all things, it follows that He knows everything we will do and every decision we will make before we make it. There is no way to debate or argue against this.

24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, (John 2:24)

18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works. (Acts 15:18)

It also says He foreknew us before we were born.

2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)

2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, (Romans 11:2)

In fact, it is God who sanctifies and ordains us before we have even been conceived, who directs our steps and does our works in us.

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5)

16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them. (Psalm 139:16)

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' (Isaiah 46:10)

36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:36)

37 Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass, When the Lord has not commanded it? 38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That woe and well-being proceed? (Lamentations 3:37-38)

17 O Lord, why have You made us stray from Your ways, And hardened our heart from Your fear? Return for Your servants' sake, The tribes of Your inheritance. (Isaiah 63:17)

24 A man's steps are of the Lord; How then can a man understand his own way? (Proverbs 20:24)

9 A man's heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps. (Proverbs 16:9)

12 Lord, You will establish peace for us, For You have also done all our works in us. (Isaiah 26:12)

I personally feel the answer is no to both questions. If God always knows the decisions we will make before we make them why does he give us so many ultimatums?
For one thing, we are accountable for our actions, not our potential actions.

We might as well just fast forward to judgement day.
You're basing your theology off of your own reasoning, rather than basing it off the Bible. This is a common mistake but in terms of knowing the truth it is a serious error.

20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" (Romans 9:20)

3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases. (Psalm 115:3)

Too often people think they can apply human ways, characteristics, and thinking to God in order to formulate doctrine. This is not the case. His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9). In fact, his judgments are unsearchable, and His ways are past finding out (Romans 11:33). Therefore we should not rely on our own understanding, and instead simply trust God (Proverbs 3:5), who "knows all things" (John 21:17; 1 John 3:20).

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; (Proverbs 3:5)

8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Romans 11:33)
 
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C

CBM82

Guest
#5
I'm willing to accept that there are some things that I just cant wrap my mind around but my questions in post three are really hard to give an answer for. I know God is infinite and my mind is finite but I'm just interested in people pov on it.
 
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CBM82

Guest
#6
And if God knows someone is going to hell before he creates them....then why create them?
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#7
Why does God always say IF you do this or IF you do that. He's giving us a choice and its like he doesn't know what choice we will make.
No, it's us who don't know, and, since He is speaking to us, He does so in a way that will make sense to us.

Did he know Satan was going to fall when he created him?
This was already answered. He knows all things.

wouldnt it be Gods fault for creating him in the first place if this is so?
No. Satan is responsible for his own actions. God's creation of Satan is in perfect accordance with His plan, including His knowledge of everything Satan would ever do. Satan's fall and subsequent actions are essentially tools God uses to carry out His plan, just as Satan himself is.

Why did God choose Moses to deliver his people out of Egypt and then seek to kill him when he knew his sons were not circumcised....almost like it was unexpected and God had a change of plans.
That makes no sense. God can and sometimes does punish even believers for their sins. God chose Moses because it was according to His plan.

I'm not doubting the power of God....just asking a fair question.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#8
I'm willing to accept that there are some things that I just cant wrap my mind around but my questions in post three are really hard to give an answer for.
It's not so much that they are hard to give an answer for as it is that God simply hasn't made the answers to every question known to us. It is a fallacy to assume that because we do not know the answer that there isn't one. Since His ways are past finding out, being so far above our ways, there are many things having to do with God that are just that: past finding out.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#9
And if God knows someone is going to hell before he creates them....then why create them?
Because doing so is in accordance with His plan and His purpose according to election.

11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), (Romans 9:11)

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (Romans 9:22)
 
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CBM82

Guest
#10
I'm sorry but I cant accept this as answers. If God creates someone knowing good and well they are destined to hell, pretty much creates them to suffer, than that makes God sound like the devil. I DO NOT believe people are predestined to go to hell or heaven. Dont buy it. There is something more to it

Why did it repent God that he had made man flesh in genesis 6? why did it grieve him? Was it a surprise to him that man had become that way? Didnt he see it coming?

I believe God is all knowing in things of the moment but future decisions I'm not so sure. Prophecy's come to pass because God can make them come to pass but on a personal level I dont believe God knows what decision I'm gonna make in the future UNLESS he convicts my heart to make that decision.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
Why does God always say IF you do this or IF you do that. He's giving us a choice and its like he doesn't know what choice we will make. Did he know Satan was going to fall when he created him? wouldnt it be Gods fault for creating him in the first place if this is so? Why did God choose Moses to deliver his people out of Egypt and then seek to kill him when he knew his sons were not circumcised....almost like it was unexpected and God had a change of plans. I'm not doubting the power of God....just asking a fair question.
If God did not use the "if" and forced his will on all people, God would not be a loving father, but an evil dictator who did exactly what Satan claimed he did.

As for God knowing satan would fall. SHould god not have created anyone at all. knowing some would reject him? is that fair to those who did chose to follow him.

secondly, What if God just allowed those who would chose him to be saved, is that fair to those who would reject him? not to mention, what kind of God would he be. How would we like it if we allowed only those who will be good to live, and kill those who will be evil, and not even give them a chance to be good or evil. would that be fair?
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
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#12
Well we choose our own paths, i choose life
We can follow the Lord or we can go the other way, but i personally want to see him someday.
It is obvious that God chose to make us with free will,because that way we love him freely, he could have
made us as drones, but didnt.
Be blessed
 
C

CBM82

Guest
#13
Well we choose our own paths, i choose life
We can follow the Lord or we can go the other way, but i personally want to see him someday.
It is obvious that God chose to make us with free will,because that way we love him freely, he could have
made us as drones, but didnt.
Be blessed
Exactly, and thats kinda what I'm getting at. If he knows ahead of time who will or wont love him, all of this feels like a wast of time.
 
C

CBM82

Guest
#14
By the way I wanna make it clear that I am in no way trying to sell God short or limit his abilities. I just question peoples perception of God and interpretation of scripture....I even question my own perceptions and interpretations :)
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
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#15
Exactly, and thats kinda what I'm getting at. If he knows ahead of time who will or wont love him, all of this feels like a wast of time.
If (we) decide to choose life, he knows this already, If (we) decide to refuse him, he knows this too.but
He is patiently waiting for people to come to him now. They decide this for themselves, he does
not make their decision for them,and us that are waiting ,do we get weary sometimes yes,but
the suffering now is nothing compared to the glory we will see someday
Be blessed
 
C

CBM82

Guest
#16
If (we) decide to choose life, he knows this already, If (we) decide to refuse him, he knows this too.but
He is patiently waiting for people to come to him now. They decide this for themselves, he does
not make their decision for them,and us that are waiting ,do we get weary sometimes yes,but
the suffering now is nothing compared to the glory we will see someday
Be blessed
"patiently waiting" for something he already knows? something already determined? Dont buy it
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
"patiently waiting" for something he already knows? something already determined? Dont buy it
So what your saying is you do not really want to discuss. You already have it in you rmind what you believe and no one will change your mind?? Why bother?
 
C

CBM82

Guest
#18
So what your saying is you do not really want to discuss. You already have it in you rmind what you believe and no one will change your mind?? Why bother?
Because I'm waiting for someone to make the post that makes me go...."you know what, maybe youre right" or maybe someone will say that to me. Feel free to disagree with me and make your points, we are all friends.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
Because I'm waiting for someone to make the post that makes me go...."you know what, maybe youre right" or maybe someone will say that to me. Feel free to disagree with me and make your points, we are all friends.
well thats fine. But when you say things like, "I am not buying it" you are showing an unwillingness to discuss and will cause people to walk away, as you alienate them.
 
C

CBM82

Guest
#20
well thats fine. But when you say things like, "I am not buying it" you are showing an unwillingness to discuss and will cause people to walk away, as you alienate them.
ok, maybe I should stop saying that but what I really mean is....I'm not buying it "yet"