The 4 beasts, vision of Daniel chapter 7

[peterT]

The 4 beasts, vision of Daniel chapter 7 are commonly explained as follows:

First beast = Babylonian Empire
Second beast = Medo-Persian Empire
Third beast = Greek Empire
4th Beast= Roman Empire.

This can’t be right for two reasons.

One Daniel saw four beasts came up from the sea.

But Babylon was already up and Daniel he was living in it, the Babylonian Empire was already up and running and in full swing.

Reasons two, if the 4th beast was the Roman Empire that would make it the 6th not the 7th

Because there was two other kingdoms before Babylon (1) Egypt (2) Assyria then Babylon. That would make it the 6th NOT seven, and john said there were seven.

Your thought thanks

[Avinu]

The 7th was the Ottoman Empire, they are the beast that will be again. Turkey was the head quarters of the Ottoman Empire, which so happens to be if all goes as planned, Turkey (which is the largest muslim nation in the world) will become a part of the EU this year in 2012. I firmly believe that they are "the beast that was and will be again"


The Ottoman Empire[dn 4] or Sublime Ottoman State (Ottoman Turkish: دَوْلَتِ عَلِيّهٔ عُثمَانِیّه Devlet-i ʿAliyye-yi ʿOsmâniyye[7] (also عثمانلى دولتى Osmanlı Devleti),[dn 5] Modern Turkish: Osmanlı Devleti or Osmanlı İmparatorluğu) was a Turkish empire which lasted from 27 January 1299[8] to 29 October 1923.[9]
The Ottoman Empire was one of the largest and longest lasting empires in history; such that the Ottoman State, its politics, conflicts, and cultural heritage in a vast geography provide one of the longest continuous narratives. During the 16th and 17th centuries, in particular at the height of its power under the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent, the empire became the most powerful state in the world – a multinational, multilingual empire that stretched from the southern borders of the Holy Roman Empire (to the outskirts of Vienna), Royal Hungary (modern Slovakia) and the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in the north to Yemen and Eritrea in the south; from Algeria in the west to Azerbaijan in the east;[10] controlling much of southeast Europe, western Asia, and North Africa.[11] The empire contained 29 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others were granted various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.[dn 6]
With Constantinople (present-day Istanbul, Ottoman Turkish: استنبول, Istanbul[12] and قسطنطينيه, Kostantiniyye) as its capital city,[13][14] and vast control of lands around the Mediterranean basin, the empire was at the center of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for six centuries.
After the international recognition of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey (GNA) headquartered in Ankara, by means of the Treaty of Lausanne signed on 24 July 1923, the GNA proclaimed on 29 October 1923 the establishment of the Republic of Turkey as the new Turkish State that succeeded and formally ended the defunct Ottoman Empire, in line with the treaty.[15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22] The Ottoman Caliphate was abolished on 3 March 1924 (de jure, the Caliphate's powers and properties were transferred to the GNA.)


Contents

[hide]

• 1 Rise of the Ottoman Empire (1299–1453)
• 2 Growth (1453–1683)
  • 2.1 Expansion and apogee (1453–1566)
  • 2.2 Revolts and revival (1566–1683)
• 3 Stagnation and reform (1683–1827)
• 4 Decline and modernization (1828–1908)
  • 4.1 Modernization
  • 4.2 Crimean War
  • 4.3 Ethnic nationalism
  • 4.4 Balkans
    • 4.4.1 Congress of Berlin
  • 4.5 Egypt
  • 4.6 Armenia
  • 4.7 Economy
• 5 Dissolution (1908–1922)
  • 5.1 World War I (1914–1918)
  • 5.2 Turkish War of Independence (1919–1922)
  • 5.3 Ottoman descendants during and after the exile
• 6 Fall of the Empire
• 7 Administrative divisions
• 8 Economy
• 9 State
• 10 Society
• 11 Culture
• 12 Demographics
  • 12.1 Language
  • 12.2 Religion
  • 12.3 The Ottoman Empire, Turkey, Iraq and Kurdistan
    • 12.3.1 Jews and Assyrian Christians forced migrations between 1843 and the 21st century
• 13 Law
• 14 Military
• 15 See also
• 16 Footnotes
• 17 References
• 18 Further reading
  • 18.1 General surveys
  • 18.2 to 1830
  • 18.3 Post 1830
  • 18.4 Ottoman Law
• 19 External links

[edit] Rise of the Ottoman Empire (1299–1453)

Main article: Rise of the Ottoman Empire
Further information: Ottoman Dynasty and Kayı tribe
With the demise of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum (c. 1300), Anatolia was divided into a patchwork of independent states, the so-called Ghazi emirates. By 1300, a weakened Byzantine Empire had lost most of its Anatolian provinces to ten Ghazi principalities. One of the Ghazi emirates was led by Osman I (from which the name Ottoman is derived), son of Ertuğrul, around Eskişehir in western Anatolia. In the foundation myth expressed in the medieval Turkish story known as "Osman's Dream", the young Osman was inspired to conquest by a prescient vision of empire (according to his dream, the empire is a big tree whose roots spread through three continents and whose branches cover the sky).[23][citation needed] According to his dream the tree, which was Osman's Empire, issued four rivers from its roots, the Tigris, the Euphrates, the Nile and the Danube.[23] Additionally, the tree shaded four mountain ranges, the Caucasus, the Taurus, the Atlas and the Balkan ranges.[23] During his reign as Sultan, Osman I, extended the frontiers of Ottoman settlement toward the edge of the Byzantine Empire. He also moved the Ottoman capital to Bursa and shaped the early political development of the nation.
In this period, a formal Ottoman government was created whose institutions would change drastically over the life of the empire. The government used the legal entity known as the millet, under which religious and ethnic minorities were allowed to manage their own affairs with substantial independence from central control.

[mpaper345]

The 7 kingdoms would be

1.Egypt
2.Assyria
3.Babylon
4.Medo-Persia
5.Greece
6.Roman Empire
7.The 10 horn kingdom,the world divided in to 10 super nations,with a leader in each super nation.

The 6th kingdom,Roman Empire,is the 4th beast of Daniel chapter 7,and the 10 horns come from the 4th beast of Daniel,making it the 7th kingdom.

The 10 horns give their power to the 8th king,the beast.

The 10 horns come from the Roman Empire,which there has not been a 10 horn kingdom yet,for the world has never been divided in to 10 super nations,and these 10 horns all rule at the same time.

Even though the Roman Empire got it's start as the 6th kingdom long ago,the 10 horns can come from them,which is a future event,because the Bible says the Roman Empire did not lose their dominion,their kingdom will have dominion until Jesus puts down the beast system.

In Daniel chapter 7 it says the first three beasts had their dominion taken away,which means they will never rise to power again,but the fourth beast did not have their dominion taken away,until Jesus takes over the world.

The Bible says in Daniel chapter 7 that the first three beasts had their dominion taken away,but their lives are prolonged for a season and time,which means they lost their physical kingdom,but their ways,the way they operated are still on earth,and that is why you see the Lion,Bear,and Leopard,in Revelation chapter 13,because their ways are in the beast system,with the 10 horns having the physical dominion.

The 4 beasts of Daniel chapter 7 are all part of the beast kingdom of Revelation chapter 13.

[iamsoandso]

"count the number of the beast",,,,,,,,look at it it don't add up your missing a kingdom that was before ad 96,,,,,,,,,,was not ,,,did not exist in ad 96,,,,,but is set back up as a kingdom in the earth after ad 96

[iamsoandso]

even he is the eight and is of the seven

[peterT]

Originally Posted by iamsoandso

"count the number of the beast",,,,,,,,look at it it don't add up your missing a kingdom that was before ad 96,,,,,,,,,,was not ,,,did not exist in ad 96,,,,,but is set back up as a kingdom in the earth after ad 96

What kingdom was that iamsoandso?

[iamsoandso]

the kingdom of Israel,,,,,,,Davids kingdom they obeyed god and so his kingdom spread from the river Euphrates to the great river of Egypt,,,then as it said "you have blood upon your hands,,"David",,,and your son will have peace in his day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but the kingdom fell apart from here,,,,,,,,,,,your missing "Israel",,,,,,,,,"why do you marvel?",,,,,,,,,,'i will show you the beast,,that was,,,,,before ad 70,,,,,and was not destroyed in ad 96 by Rome ,,,,,,and was not an kingdom in the earth when this was written in ad 96,,,,,,,,,,,,and it shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,,,,,,,,now then make up your mind,,,,,,,,,was the kingdom of god the one that descends down from heaven in the millineal kingdom,,, or was it the one men set up after ww2,,, in 1948,,,,,,,,,,,,because if the lord is coming to set up "israel' and his temple at the mill.,,,,,,,then there is an "temple were it ought not be",,,,,,,,,,,,,and the new Jerusalem "decended down from heaven",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not from the English and the united nations after ww2,,,,,,,,,,,,,two "Israels" one is an image of the beast and the other is real,,,,,,,,,,,,the one must go,,,,,,,,,to make way for the true temple,,,,,,,,,,"count you the number of the beast",,,,,,,,,you see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[iamsoandso]

"a forgery,,, another in the place of ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,looks like,,,,,,,,,,,,"image of the beast",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,'image"

[iamsoandso]

" a mirror reflection",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"image of the beast that was and was not yet is and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition",,,ect.ect. "whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, two different ones one looks like it .but the other is it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[iamsoandso]

two kingdoms of god ,,, one they will trick you with,,and the kingdom of god ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is the weak point,,,,,,,,,,,,7 heads,,, two horns,,,,, Babylon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"an image of the true kingdom of god",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,here is the deception,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in the foundation of it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"count the number of the beast peter-t",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

[iamsoandso]

one two many "Israels"

[iamsoandso]

say it to me peter is it madness or is it truth???????is there a mirror image of Israel??????????i will give you time if you like,,,,,,,,,,,

[peterT]

Originally Posted by mpaper345

The 7 kingdoms would be

1.Egypt
2.Assyria
3.Babylon
4.Medo-Persia
5.Greece
6.Roman Empire
7.The 10 horn kingdom,the world divided in to 10 super nations,with a leader in each super nation.

The 6th kingdom,Roman Empire,is the 4th beast of Daniel chapter 7,and the 10 horns come from the 4th beast of Daniel,making it the 7th kingdom.

The 10 horns give their power to the 8th king,the beast.

The 10 horns come from the Roman Empire,which there has not been a 10 horn kingdom yet,for the world has never been divided in to 10 super nations,and these 10 horns all rule at the same time.

Even though the Roman Empire got it's start as the 6th kingdom long ago,the 10 horns can come from them,which is a future event,because the Bible says the Roman Empire did not lose their dominion,their kingdom will have dominion until Jesus puts down the beast system.

In Daniel chapter 7 it says the first three beasts had their dominion taken away,which means they will never rise to power again,but the fourth beast did not have their dominion taken away,until Jesus takes over the world.

The Bible says in Daniel chapter 7 that the first three beasts had their dominion taken away,but their lives are prolonged for a season and time,which means they lost their physical kingdom,but their ways,the way they operated are still on earth,and that is why you see the Lion,Bear,and Leopard,in Revelation chapter 13,because their ways are in the beast system,with the 10 horns having the physical dominion.

The 4 beasts of Daniel chapter 7 are all part of the beast kingdom of Revelation chapter 13.

Just one problem with that.

You say the ten horns come from the 6th Rome, where John says the ten horns come from the 7th

Rv1710 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

And the 8th comes from the 7th

But you seem to be saying the 7th and the 8th come from the 6th.

[Avinu]

the kingdom of Israel,,,,,,,Davids kingdom they obeyed god and so his kingdom spread from the river Euphrates to the great river of Egypt,,,then as it said "you have blood upon your hands,,"David",,,and your son will have peace in his day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but the kingdom fell apart from here,,,,,,,,,,,your missing "Israel",,,,,,,,,"why do you marvel?",,,,,,,,,,'i will show you the beast,,that was,,,,,before ad 70,,,,,and was not destroyed in ad 96 by Rome ,,,,,,and was not an kingdom in the earth when this was written in ad 96,,,,,,,,,,,,and it shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,,,,,,,,now then make up your mind,,,,,,,,,was the kingdom of god the one that descends down from heaven in the millineal kingdom,,, or was it the one men set up after ww2,,, in 1948,,,,,,,,,,,,because if the lord is coming to set up "israel' and his temple at the mill.,,,,,,,then there is an "temple were it ought not be",,,,,,,,,,,,,and the new Jerusalem "decended down from heaven",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not from the English and the united nations after ww2,,,,,,,,,,,,,two "Israels" one is an image of the beast and the other is real,,,,,,,,,,,,the one must go,,,,,,,,,to make way for the true temple,,,,,,,,,,"count you the number of the beast",,,,,,,,,you see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

There's a few problems with this.

1) Israel was never an empire, they never ruled more than what YHVH designated to them.

2) There is no kingdom that descends from heaven in the millenial reign, The Ezekiel temple will be built in millenial reign. Ez. ch.'s 40-48

3) The New Jerusalem that descends from Heaven does not accure until after all is finished and YHVH makes a new heaven and earth as Rev. 21:1-2 says

1) Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2) Then I, John, saw the Holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from YHVH, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Israel has nothing to do with the mark of the beast or being a beast in any way shape and form. Scripture does not indicate it either.

Where do you get a mirror image of Israel? Who and what is a mirror image of Israel? Shalom

[Avinu]

Just one problem with that.

You say the ten horns come from the 6th Rome, where John says the ten horns come from the 7th

Rv1710 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

And the 8th comes from the 7th

This is right on Peter, and with Turkey canceling their support for Israel, beginning of last yr. and taking it's place once again as the head of Islam, and when they take there place as a member of the EU, then that fits right in with "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven"

As anyone who has studied about Islam which the Ottoman Empire consisted of, knows that Islam is spreading like a plague throughout the entire world. There have been numerous articles, especially in the last 10 yrs. that have declared that at the rate of growth of Islam, it will dominate every nation by 2050. Of course I don't think we have that much time, and think it will happen quicker than that.

And of course time will tell as everything plays out, but there are so many signs that point to this quite easily. Shalom

[Laodicea]

We must use the Bible to interpret the Bible. Daniel 2 gives more light on Daniel 7
Daniel 2:38-40
(38) And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
(39) And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
(40) And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

There are 4 kingdoms in Daniel 2 and 4 kingdoms in Daniel 7, that is not a coincidence. The first we are told is Babylon, 2nd Medo-Persia, 3rd Greece and 4th Rome.

[Trax]

Originally Posted by peterT

The 4 beasts, vision of Daniel chapter 7 are commonly explained as follows:

First beast = Babylonian Empire
Second beast = Medo-Persian Empire
Third beast = Greek Empire
4th Beast= Roman Empire.

This can’t be right for two reasons.

One Daniel saw four beasts came up from the sea.

But Babylon was already up and Daniel he was living in it, the Babylonian Empire was already up and running and in full swing.

Reasons two, if the 4th beast was the Roman Empire that would make it the 6th not the 7th

Because there was two other kingdoms before Babylon (1) Egypt (2) Assyria then Babylon. That would make it the 6th NOT seven, and john said there were seven.

Your thought thanks

Daniel was given "prophecy", concerning the things to come. God wasn't conveying info of the
past, but of future events and kingdoms. Babylon was first, because it would be the first
kingdom, these events would affect.

[iamsoandso]

"the beast that thow sawest ect."verse.8,,,,,,,"i will shew the the judgment of the great ect.",,,verse 1,,,,,,,,,what beast did he see???????????????verse "3",,a woman sitting on a seven headed beast with ten horns,,,,,,,,back to verse "8',,,,,,,,"the beast that thow sawest,,,was and is not",,,,,,,,,,,does the woman he saw exist at this time?,,,the five kings that had fallen, do they exist at this time???? the 7th head does it exist at this time? it had not come,,,,are the ten horns come yet??????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in ad 96 the woman did not exist,,, the first five kings did not exist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the seventh head did not exist,,,,,and the ten horns did not exist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"one is",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,do not forget in the "vision he saw" there is a woman riding the beast ,,,,,,,,"most miss that the woman is part of the vision he saw",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they get carried away looking at the "five are fallen,one is",,,,,,,,,,,,,and forget that in verse 1 of rev,17,18,,,,,,,,,,,,he's showing you the "judgement of the woman who is riding the seven headed beast",,,so stay,,,"focused on her",,,,,,,,,,the ten horns hate her,,,,,,,,,she riding,,, it's all about her,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the judgment of the seven heads comes later,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[peterT]

Originally Posted by Laodicea

We must use the Bible to interpret the Bible. Daniel 2 gives more light on Daniel 7
Daniel 2:38-40
(38) And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
(39) And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
(40) And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

There are 4 kingdoms in Daniel 2 and 4 kingdoms in Daniel 7, that is not a coincidence. The first we are told is Babylon, 2nd Medo-Persia, 3rd Greece and 4th Rome.

When I read Daniel 2, I see 5 kingdoms not 4.

The first kingdom in Daniel 2
32 This image's head [was] of fine gold, ……………………………… Empire Babylon, Daniels day.


His breast and his arms of silver, ………………………………………….Empire Medo-Persia.


His belly and his thighs of brass,……………………………………………Empire Greece.


33 His legs of iron, ………………………………………….......................Empire Rome .
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron

His feet part of iron and part of clay. …………………………………….Empire last days.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided;

The fourth kingdim is strong, but the feet and toes that kingdom is divided.

So you can see I can see 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2.

Now look at the whole pitcher in bible history including the first two kingdoms 1) Egypt 2) Assyria.
That makes seven kingdom altogether in bible history.

[Avinu]

[quote]"the beast that thow sawest ect."verse.8,,,,,,,"i will shew the the judgment of the great ect.",,,verse 1,,,,,,,,,what beast did he see???????????????verse "3",,a woman sitting on a seven headed beast with ten horns,,,,,,,,back to verse "8',,,,,,,,"the beast that thow sawest,,,was and is not",,,,,,,,,,,does the woman he saw exist at this time?,,,the five kings that had fallen, do they exist at this time???? the 7th head does it exist at this time? it had not come,,,,are the ten horns come yet??????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in ad 96 the woman did not exist,,, the first five kings did not exist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the seventh head did not exist,,,,,and the ten horns did not exist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"one is",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,do not forget in the "vision he saw" there is a woman riding the beast ,,,,,,,,"most miss that the woman is part of the vision he saw",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they get carried away looking at the "five are fallen,one is",,,,,,,,,,,,,and forget that in verse 1 of rev,17,18,,,,,,,,,,,,he's showing you the "judgement of the woman who is riding the seven headed beast",,,so stay,,,"focused on her",,,,,,,,,,the ten horns hate her,,,,,,,,,she riding,,, it's all about her,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the judgment of the seven heads comes later,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [/QUOTE

You have about 4 different points thrown together here, but they are not making sense because none of your sentences are complete. Can you be a little more specific and complete on what you're trying to say? Thank You, shalom