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M
Mental Illness is a very tricky subject. I study psychology at uni and have taken christian courses in the area of prayer ministry. Many physical problems are actually a result of spiritual circumstances but some can just be physical.
Reading about your husbands past and what he has been through suggests it is spiritual. We take on a lot of things when we are young. Sexual abuse is very destructive, the child can shut down a part of themselves, blame themselves, have hatred towards the individual. Drinking and drugs abuse gives a place for mind altering demons to enter.That is just a short summary. I would suggest you and your husband see your pastor and disscuss whats happening and find a responsible christian leader who is able to counsel, teach and deliver your husband through this struggle. You need to be able to understand what's happening. Your husband has to talk through the things that have gone on in his life and he has to release it to God. Then the responsible leader can pray with him for the healing and deliverence of his wounds and hurts which is only acheived through the cross and blood of Jesus Christ.
I don't believe we are unsaved if have demonic powers that push us to do things. We are all works in progress. I am not perfect and you are not but if we submit to Jesus he will make us perfect in his image. We all need to hold to the Hope which is Jesus and through faith he is well able to save us from ourselves (fleshly desires) and the onslaught of the enemy.
You are such a brave woman to be so willing to share with us. God bless you so much.
Reading about your husbands past and what he has been through suggests it is spiritual. We take on a lot of things when we are young. Sexual abuse is very destructive, the child can shut down a part of themselves, blame themselves, have hatred towards the individual. Drinking and drugs abuse gives a place for mind altering demons to enter.That is just a short summary. I would suggest you and your husband see your pastor and disscuss whats happening and find a responsible christian leader who is able to counsel, teach and deliver your husband through this struggle. You need to be able to understand what's happening. Your husband has to talk through the things that have gone on in his life and he has to release it to God. Then the responsible leader can pray with him for the healing and deliverence of his wounds and hurts which is only acheived through the cross and blood of Jesus Christ.
I don't believe we are unsaved if have demonic powers that push us to do things. We are all works in progress. I am not perfect and you are not but if we submit to Jesus he will make us perfect in his image. We all need to hold to the Hope which is Jesus and through faith he is well able to save us from ourselves (fleshly desires) and the onslaught of the enemy.
You are such a brave woman to be so willing to share with us. God bless you so much.
L
Thank you so much to everyone that has replied. I am sorry that I haven't been able to reply to each and every post, my brain is a bit on overload and I'm having a difficult time even digesting this information.
But I have learned soooo much from every single post.
Mcap, I am also sorry for your loss. I think you had a point though, about opening the doorway for demon influence.
~ lauren
But I have learned soooo much from every single post.
Mcap, I am also sorry for your loss. I think you had a point though, about opening the doorway for demon influence.
~ lauren
M
A great wise man said when you clean a house keep it clean or seven more worse than those before will enter. I don't know if its demons or chem imbalance, I do know he needs prayer and love. Lets don't give the devil and his demons too much credit, mankind is full of enough problems with lust,pride,hatred and any other number of wrong thoughts and feelings. On the other hand those of you that don't believe that demons exist, your bible says they do!
This is a very difficult time for you and your family. I won't wast your time by trying to pretend that I might know what exactly you and your family are suffering, let alone attempt to diagnose all the different things that might be suffering your husband.
I can relate b/c in my own family there are a lot of these "stories". I also have personal experience. My first suicide attempt was in the fourth grade. Later in life I also wound up completely detached from reality. I'll spare you the story of my journey.
However, I do want to let you know that this too is an opportunity to suffer well. That is to say, you now have the very real opportunity to suffer through a trial and at the end of this trial, in whatever form it may come, there is a very real chance that you and your husband might be rewarded or find yourself much closer to Him. But with all trials also comes the dangers of failure. I am not saying that you must endure this test perfectly or all is lost. God is merciful and extends His grace to us despite our weaknesses.
We are always to be moving toward God through obstacles that, of our own strength, we can not endure. He is faithful and though we might not perceive a victory because of any given "undesirable" outcome, it all depends on how you define victory and also the concept of "outcome".
He IS risen. There's a saying that goes like this: I am neither an optimist or a pessimist for Christ is risen.
When God told Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice, Abraham obeyed in a way that illustrates the synergy of faith and works in a way that wound up pointing to the resurrection. Abraham knew that God is good and yet God asked Abraham to do something that perplexes our limited sense of what is good. The way we humans define good is by examining character. Character is action. We perceive the character of a thing or a person by what that thing or person "does". If a person is greedy it is because their actions point toward our limited understanding of greed. We see a well-fed hand that reaches for more. After we see this, we see greed.
Abraham was given the task to offer his son as a sacrifice. He knew the character of God IS good and yet God has asked him to sacrifice what to our simple mind is also, "good". Knowing God to be source of all that is good, Abraham didn't believe that Isaac would not be sacrificed. In other words, it's not that Abraham thought that a good God wouldn't actually ask him to sacrifice his son and so it must be a test and therefore in order to pass the test, he will simply go through the motions and wait for Him to rescue him from the sacrifice. No, Abraham looked past death, knowing full well that even death could be conquered by God and despite the temporary undesirable "outcome" of his son's death, he didn't have to count his son's death as final. So, in Abraham's heart (and mind) even if Isaac had been sacrificed, this temporary "defeat" could still be counted a truer victory that he would remain hopeful for.
Hebrews 11:17-19 (New International Version)
17By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.
It was Abraham's faith (which is a knowledge of the heart) that prompted him to do God's will and to look (with his reason) PAST the death of his own son toward a good god, Our Lord, despite the trying circumstances.
The reason I'm telling you this is because you must look past what you might define as victory in this situation. Don't count loss for loss or believe that whatever losses might come your way are punishments for you or your husband's actions. God's will is a mysterious thing. Did Abraham know that God would allow Isaac to live? No. But if to answer this in a more comprehensive and truer way, yes. The reason the answer is not truly "no", is because Abraham looked past his son's death and relied not on his own sense of life and death. He did, in a truer sense, believe that Isaac would "live".
So, I encourage you to be prepared for what you might consider to be the worst so that if it does occur, you might still see victory in such a loss. And properly prepare yourself for long-suffering that you might take refuge in Him during such a hard time. It's for your benefit, as backwards as that might sound to the world.
Read the book of James.
In regards to demons and mental illness. Who is an authority? God. And let it be said that there is a distinction. Is there demon possession? Yes. Can a "Christian" be possessed? Yes. A demon can attack from within as well as from the outside. Is there mental "corruption" or disease or illness? Yes. Can a demon exploit our mental illness even though we are Christian? Yes. Is there such thing as sanity? Yes. Have any of us achieved the truest sense of the word, sanity? No. For now we see dimly. There is no man who is not, when measured against the clarity of what is to come, sane.
In regards to exorcism, do be careful. I should let you know that every Orthodox person is exorcised at their Chrismation. Don't take it upon yourself to try and "exorcise" him or yourself by using certain formulas that have been given to you by persons of whatever type of "church" you might go to. I won't go into it but I can't in good conscience not warn you.
Chrismation* - having been expelled from within, will the demons return to attack from the outside? Most likely, yes. Can the demons be granted re-entry into the person? Yes. But I would focus less on the demons and more on love, humility and prayer. You don't want to convince yourself of something that might actually be something else. This too would be a deception and counter to your journey toward God and the healing that your husband needs.
The reason the mentally "ill" (schizophrenia) in Africa have a faster recovery rate than in more "civilized" countries is because the community doesn't have such stigmas against those who suffer from these realities. They recognize that it happens and when it happens, they don't further heap stones upon the suffering in order to lift themselves up. This afflicted person needs loved more than anything else. The community should offer to such a person, love, care, selfless devotion to their healing, humility, kindness and time. When we who consider ourselves, "sane" look at such a person, we should see two things.
One, ourselves. Are we not, when compared to the perfection of Christ's mind, mentally defected? Are we not ourselves, insofar as we are not in communion with God, insane?
Two, Christ Himself. The afflicted human is still an icon of Christ. That is to say, we are all made in His image. Not one human being has not been made in His image. To turn our backs on a fellow human being who is suffering is to turn our back on the one who created this fellow being. If God's extending his love to this person then we too, like our Father, if we are truly sons, will extend our love to this person.
I will try to keep you and your husband in my daily prayers and ask others too for their prayers for your husband for as long as I hear that he's in this condition.
Here is a podcast that might give you better insight into the issue of, demons and (or) mental illness (from an Orthodox perspective).
Insanity Or Demonic Possession?
Posted June 19, 2009 After years of questions from concerned friends and loved ones about whether someone suffered from insanity or demonic posession (and how to discern the difference between the two), the sisters of St Barbara Monastery (OCA; Santa Paula, CA) turned to the patristic Church Fathers for answers. In this episode of The Illumined Heart, Mother Melania (Salem) tells host Kevin Allen what they discovered.
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* From Ancient Faith Radio.
God bless
I can relate b/c in my own family there are a lot of these "stories". I also have personal experience. My first suicide attempt was in the fourth grade. Later in life I also wound up completely detached from reality. I'll spare you the story of my journey.
However, I do want to let you know that this too is an opportunity to suffer well. That is to say, you now have the very real opportunity to suffer through a trial and at the end of this trial, in whatever form it may come, there is a very real chance that you and your husband might be rewarded or find yourself much closer to Him. But with all trials also comes the dangers of failure. I am not saying that you must endure this test perfectly or all is lost. God is merciful and extends His grace to us despite our weaknesses.
We are always to be moving toward God through obstacles that, of our own strength, we can not endure. He is faithful and though we might not perceive a victory because of any given "undesirable" outcome, it all depends on how you define victory and also the concept of "outcome".
He IS risen. There's a saying that goes like this: I am neither an optimist or a pessimist for Christ is risen.
When God told Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice, Abraham obeyed in a way that illustrates the synergy of faith and works in a way that wound up pointing to the resurrection. Abraham knew that God is good and yet God asked Abraham to do something that perplexes our limited sense of what is good. The way we humans define good is by examining character. Character is action. We perceive the character of a thing or a person by what that thing or person "does". If a person is greedy it is because their actions point toward our limited understanding of greed. We see a well-fed hand that reaches for more. After we see this, we see greed.
Abraham was given the task to offer his son as a sacrifice. He knew the character of God IS good and yet God has asked him to sacrifice what to our simple mind is also, "good". Knowing God to be source of all that is good, Abraham didn't believe that Isaac would not be sacrificed. In other words, it's not that Abraham thought that a good God wouldn't actually ask him to sacrifice his son and so it must be a test and therefore in order to pass the test, he will simply go through the motions and wait for Him to rescue him from the sacrifice. No, Abraham looked past death, knowing full well that even death could be conquered by God and despite the temporary undesirable "outcome" of his son's death, he didn't have to count his son's death as final. So, in Abraham's heart (and mind) even if Isaac had been sacrificed, this temporary "defeat" could still be counted a truer victory that he would remain hopeful for.
Hebrews 11:17-19 (New International Version)
17By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.
It was Abraham's faith (which is a knowledge of the heart) that prompted him to do God's will and to look (with his reason) PAST the death of his own son toward a good god, Our Lord, despite the trying circumstances.
The reason I'm telling you this is because you must look past what you might define as victory in this situation. Don't count loss for loss or believe that whatever losses might come your way are punishments for you or your husband's actions. God's will is a mysterious thing. Did Abraham know that God would allow Isaac to live? No. But if to answer this in a more comprehensive and truer way, yes. The reason the answer is not truly "no", is because Abraham looked past his son's death and relied not on his own sense of life and death. He did, in a truer sense, believe that Isaac would "live".
So, I encourage you to be prepared for what you might consider to be the worst so that if it does occur, you might still see victory in such a loss. And properly prepare yourself for long-suffering that you might take refuge in Him during such a hard time. It's for your benefit, as backwards as that might sound to the world.
Read the book of James.
In regards to demons and mental illness. Who is an authority? God. And let it be said that there is a distinction. Is there demon possession? Yes. Can a "Christian" be possessed? Yes. A demon can attack from within as well as from the outside. Is there mental "corruption" or disease or illness? Yes. Can a demon exploit our mental illness even though we are Christian? Yes. Is there such thing as sanity? Yes. Have any of us achieved the truest sense of the word, sanity? No. For now we see dimly. There is no man who is not, when measured against the clarity of what is to come, sane.
In regards to exorcism, do be careful. I should let you know that every Orthodox person is exorcised at their Chrismation. Don't take it upon yourself to try and "exorcise" him or yourself by using certain formulas that have been given to you by persons of whatever type of "church" you might go to. I won't go into it but I can't in good conscience not warn you.
Chrismation* - having been expelled from within, will the demons return to attack from the outside? Most likely, yes. Can the demons be granted re-entry into the person? Yes. But I would focus less on the demons and more on love, humility and prayer. You don't want to convince yourself of something that might actually be something else. This too would be a deception and counter to your journey toward God and the healing that your husband needs.
The reason the mentally "ill" (schizophrenia) in Africa have a faster recovery rate than in more "civilized" countries is because the community doesn't have such stigmas against those who suffer from these realities. They recognize that it happens and when it happens, they don't further heap stones upon the suffering in order to lift themselves up. This afflicted person needs loved more than anything else. The community should offer to such a person, love, care, selfless devotion to their healing, humility, kindness and time. When we who consider ourselves, "sane" look at such a person, we should see two things.
One, ourselves. Are we not, when compared to the perfection of Christ's mind, mentally defected? Are we not ourselves, insofar as we are not in communion with God, insane?
Two, Christ Himself. The afflicted human is still an icon of Christ. That is to say, we are all made in His image. Not one human being has not been made in His image. To turn our backs on a fellow human being who is suffering is to turn our back on the one who created this fellow being. If God's extending his love to this person then we too, like our Father, if we are truly sons, will extend our love to this person.
I will try to keep you and your husband in my daily prayers and ask others too for their prayers for your husband for as long as I hear that he's in this condition.
Here is a podcast that might give you better insight into the issue of, demons and (or) mental illness (from an Orthodox perspective).
Insanity Or Demonic Possession?
Posted June 19, 2009 After years of questions from concerned friends and loved ones about whether someone suffered from insanity or demonic posession (and how to discern the difference between the two), the sisters of St Barbara Monastery (OCA; Santa Paula, CA) turned to the patristic Church Fathers for answers. In this episode of The Illumined Heart, Mother Melania (Salem) tells host Kevin Allen what they discovered.
* From Ancient Faith Radio.
God bless
I know about mental illness personally. Not only do I have family members, but at age 39 when I thought I was the only normal family member, BAM! Talk about an humbling experiencing. I had walked in my brothers shoes. I understood what he was going through. I found my place in God's purpose for my life in Him was sharing my faith and my illness with others who also were experiencing same. I joined the movement of Faith Based Ministry for Mentally Ill. The churches were the worst in loving and accepting those who suffered with mental illnesses. It is called stigma. We found if the ministers, pastors, priests could wrap their mind and heart around these people the church would also wrap their mind and hearts around the mentally ill. Not excluding them because they have an illness of the mind. The churches are first to be there in the hospital when a member gets sick or injured. The hospitality dishes flow. But sadly, for the woman or man who has a loved one sick in the mind...where are those loving, kind and passionate Christians? No matter what the illness and pain, we all need to be there for each other. If you suffer as a member of Christ's body, then we should also be suffering and diligently be there for each other. I say this from personal experience. When I was in my darkest hours, there was my loving Christian girlfriend. She would say, "Come out and let's go for a ride." Then she would go very slowly in front of a house with a pretty yard or pretty flowers and point to them and comment on how beautiful God's world is. It was hard to get out, but I thank God for her compassion and friendship. She SHOWED me the way. When I was happy and feeling joy, she rejoiced with me. God has a reason for all of our seasons. Life always begin from death. When we are taught to die to ourselves, then we truly live in Christ. It is an ongoing process that never ends throughout life. We don't give up and say God is against us or that we have sinned and we let demons in. Sorry, I just think we Christians shouldn't be giving Satan any notice. Our eyes are on Jesus and if we see demons behind every bush, then we are not looking to Christ. This is just another trick of Satan isn't it. Get into the Christians and get them focused on him and then get them bickering about him and the demons. Whoo! Been there, and may be chief sinner in this area. Thank God though I am redeemed. A gift earned is not a gift at all. GRACE = God's Riches at Christ Expense. I want to send all my love I have in Christ to you and your family. One more thing I love - silver is fired and the scum is skimmed off the top so that the silver is made more purer. Also coal under pressure becomes a diamond in the rough. And God is making a beautiful tapestry of our lives, the only problem is we are seeing the tapestry from the back side with all the threads all mangled and tangled. AND LASTLY, MY FAVORITE BIBLE VERSE: Romans 8:28 "AND WE KNOW, that all things work for good to those who love God and are called according to His purposes." Love you with all my heart and while the going through the fire hurts so much, just know you are not alone in there. Remember the fire that Shadrack, Mishak, and Obednego (spelling is awful) were put into? The king saw 4 persons in the fire and the 3 young men came out unharmed. Hmm? There is definitely encouragement in God's Words. Just seek out the nuggets. Stubble and hay will all burn away, but those things that are worthy survive. (Something like that, sorry I don't memorize Bible verses to well.) I can go on and on with encouragement, but I guess I need to end this reply.
F
Hello Lauren, I believe there is some demonic activity going on with your husband, there are also things of his past that these evil spirits are using against him, but most of all I want you to know that God is not willing that any should perish. It simple is not God's will for him to be in this state of mind. Having said that I believe that God is going to set him free. So let's believe God and what His word tells us. That by His stripes we are healed..Take great encouragement from the word of God, believe what it says, stand on the word refuse to believe anything else. and Know that God's love for you and your husband is very powerful. If you believe allthings are possible and you will see the deliverance of the Lord. Please do not let those spirits make you afraid and do not believe thier lies. Fear not, says the Lord only believe..in Jesus name, name above all names, exalt Jesus...and you will see..
God had already promised to Abraham that through his seed a nation, greater than the number of sands, would come through Abraham's promised son. Abraham felt "uncomfortable" doing as God asked of Abraham (he id it in private because he knew others would say something horrible about God for testing Abraham). Abraham's faith that even if Isaac died that he would live again because Abraham had understanding that God had promised him a son and through this lineage that salvation would come to all the world (and it happened against all odds-but nothing is impossible with God) and God promised that a great nation would come through this promised child. Abraham had faith based on God's promise and knowing God personally. But in the act of obedience, showing God he was willing to do whatever God asked and believing God's promise, God provided a substitue for Isaac's life. Now isn't this a foreshadowing of Christ. God promised that a messiah would come. All through the OT we see not only prophecy about Jesus, but we see over and over stories that are the foreshadowing of "sin, penalty, and temporary restoration". The messiah, sinless, took our penalty for us, and made the final sacrifice for our restoration. He put an end to the law of sacrifice! He was the final spotless lamb. He was the 2nd Adam. He is life after death. He took up the cross and bore it. Someone in the crowd stepped in and bore the cross while Jesus was barely able to.
So here is the picture of life I envision is every Christian's life. God gave His promises. You know that you know what those promises are. Now is the time to remember them.
2nd: Bare your cross, but remember Jesus said He is the yoke and your burden would be lightened. A yoke is what harnasses to work animals together. Together the two who are yoked have more strength together than just one alone. When you are alone, Jesus is the yoke and the other worker. However, if there is a worker willing to share the work and be harnassed together with you, then there you have the 3 of you. Jesus is the yoke that binds the two of you together. Ok now one is sick or just too tired and needs a break. So another worker must step in. And so on. Get the picture Christians? Yea, the one who keep seeing the demons in this and the sinner, blah blah blah?
And lastly: Where ever two or more gathered together in my Name, there I will be.
Lauren, are you getting support from your church leader and the church members? Have you shared that your husband is ill and that you too are hurting and weary? And what kind of response did you get? Please don't despair about what caused the illness. It is really nobody's business, but only God's and His business works for the betterment of all, not just his "employees", but for the potential "customer". Really, does He need competition? All other busy bees don't eve come close to God's business. There profits are perishable. What is our business is following Christ's instructions on how to treat the body of Christ. Sure there was examples of sin and demons in the Bible. But really, people, is now the time to be unburying old dirt and preparing a grave? God alone says when it is curtain time. Don't be God's director and still the show. As they say in production, get out there and break a leg. (or is that shake a leg? LOL) Either way PERFORM and PLAY your part in this particular drama. Oh whatever, go produce your own drama with lots of sin and cause and affect and demons lurking all over the place. WAIT! That sounds like a horror flick.
Lauren, as you can tell, this reply is really speaking to many that have replied to you. I asked myself, if our were in your place right now (have been there personally experienced loved ones psychotic manic and suicidal depressed, as well as myself, a loved one of God, a unique and purposed child) what would be the mostly timely and appropriate and Christianally thing to say or do at this moment? Ok, sure later, you can take personal stock and talk to God about yourself. But do you need to be your husband's conscience too? God has no grandchildren. He only has children and as a good Father He isn't going to let big sister or big brother take over and take His place as Father. Father knows best. We children are just still learning and listening and growing. If someone tells you that they have a personal relationship with God and that they personally represent God and then proceed to tell you what God wants you to do, what God wants you to repent of, what demons God wants to send you or that the demons weren't sent by God, whatever....they are not the final authority and they personally will have to answer to their Father. God the Father only gives what is best for His children. So let's be a little silly, and say Dad sent demons to scare the pants off of you and you alone have no power to outrun them, so you run to Daddy who will protect you. God is great, He is the greatest, He is the great I AM. Only you have the power given to you by Christ, our brother and God in the flesh, to take up serpents and not be harmed. To lay hands on the sick and to heal. Good hands are gentle and compassionate and patient and carefully and skillfully apply the knife and carefully and skillfully stitch the wounds, and then sit back and wait for healing process. Something those laid on hands don't have the power to do. Sure, I see the Bible as all literal, but I also see the front, the back, the bottom, the sides and the top, the never ending view of the globe - God's love is as far as the East is to the West. That means is never connects and is never ending and eternal. God doesn't want us to know it all at once, then we would be God and can we really take on that kind of responsibility? I can't nor would I want to. I share today what God has allowed me to view today. The globe and the box both scream out God's Glory and Righteousness and Grace, grace that is sufficient for today, yesterday and tomorrow. God loves me and because He first loved me I can truly say I love God. (Oh, and I got mad, like a bratty teenager, when I was sick with my first psychotic mania and I told God I didn't need Him if that was the kind of love He gives His children.) He let me be myself, then after 11 years of it all, I came back home, broken, unhealed, dirty from all the sins I did while I was out there all alone without God. And you know what my Father did for me. He washed the dirt and tears away and said I have always been here for you. Welcome Home. The fire is always lit, but don't get to close to it, it burns, doesn't it. Your brothers and sisters are rejoicing that you are home (well anyway some of them, the others are still away on their lonely travels without Me.) Will you go with me Dad on my next journey into the unknown or the scary known places?
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