Speaking in tongues

[shroom2]

I'm well aware that many cannot or will not consider what I say on the topic. The OP asked a question. And I answered it. My wikipedia clip simply shows that many non-christians also practice a form of glossolia as well. Do what you must Shroom. And I will do likewise.

ok, will do.

From my post on page 1 :

First, in 1 Corinthians 14, the term “unknown” (in regard to tongues) was italicized in the KJV because it does not appear in the original Greek text (14:2,4,13-14,19,27). By inserting this word into their translation, the translators were attempting to aid the English reader. They undoubtedly were hoping to convey the idea that the languages to which Paul referred were unknown to the speaker, i.e., the speaker had no prior training by which to learn or know the language. He spoke the language strictly by God’s miraculous empowerment. “Unknown” certainly was not intended to convey the idea that the tongues were unknown to all humans and, as such, were non-earthly, non-human languages.

Tongues are a language of men or of angels. The tongue being spoken may, or may not be, a language currently spoken somewhere in the world. One thing is sure, the person speaking does not know the language he is speaking.

1 Cor 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Second, the events reported at the very beginning of the Christian religion (Acts 2) set the precedent for understanding that tongue-speaking entailed no more than the ability to speak a foreign human language (which the speaker had not studied) to people from a variety of geographical locales (e.g., Parthians, Medes, Arabians—Acts 2:9-11). The unbiased Bible student must conclude that what is described in detail in Acts 2 is the same phenomenon alluded to in 1 Corinthians 14. All tongue-speaking in the Bible consisted of known human languages (ideally known to the very audience being addressed) that were unknown (i.e., unstudied, unlearned) by the one who was speaking the language.

That is simply not true. As noted, tongues can be of men or angels. If it's of angels, nobody on earth will understand it. What happened at Pentecost was special, a miracle. Nowhere else does it say that people understand the language being spoken. In fact 1 Cor 14:6ff says otherwise. In the church, tongues must always be interpreted.

Third, there is simply no such thing as an “ecstatic utterance” in the New Testament. The tongue-speaking of 1 Corinthians 14 entailed human language—not incoherent gibberish. A simple reading of the chapter demonstrates that known human languages are under consideration.

Where did that come from? Tongues are not "ecstatic utterances".

God bless.

 

[shroom2]

Speaking in tongues is given by the Holy Spirit to those he chooses to give it to in the faith believing in Christ.

Tongues is available to every Christian. 1 Cor 12:7

Speaking in tongues does not tie with baptism of the Spirit , although by being baptized this shows our great Deity (Christ, God, Holy Spirit) your commitment to the faith and He may very well gift you that manifestation .

Being baptized in holy spirit happens the moment a person becomes a Christian.

Peacefulbelieving said: there is one gift, the Holy Spirit and many manifestations of that one Gift.

PeacefulBeliever is correct.

God gave us a 'helper,' who is the Holy Spirit, and their are manifestations from our Holy Spirit inside our body (temple). Call the gifts 'manifestations,' if you want, PB, but they are 'gifts' from God. Just like being 'poor in Spirit' , 'peacemaker,' etc.

Gifts are gifts and manifestations are manifestations. They are not the same thing. On the subject we are discussing, the gift is holy spirit, which comes with the ability to operate nine manifestations.

A 'gift( is something freely given, like God gave us the gifts of eternal life, His son. 'The free gift of God is eternal life.

That is certainly one of them!

 

[unclefester]

ok, will do.

God bless.

Peace .... and an olive branch. You're still a good egg

 

[GreenNnice]

Tongues is available to every Christian. 1 Cor 12:7

Tongues' manifestation gift must be given to you by God, hence, it a gift given by God in the form of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, manifesting His divine power through us exhibited. God demonstrates this gift in whom he chooses to use in this way.
Tongues is available to every Christian but God makes 'it' available.
Say it any other way, shroomers, and, you are being judgmental, so be careful, Christ bro


Being baptized in holy spirit happens the moment a person becomes a Christian.

By no means does a person become baptized in the Holy Spirit when they become a believer, careful there, you don't want to false teach, shroomers. Having the Holy Spirit indwelling requires a baptism. You don't' just get something, like Stephen, you have to ask for it or you can't be 'filled' with it, and, in this case, 'it,' is the Holy Spirit. Acts 7:55

You must receive the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus through a baptism (not needing to be water, but Jesus was baptized with water, so, it should be labeled important as such, but NOT dependent on your salvation most certainly because I am not your judge. Read Mark 16.

The Lord leads. Follow


Gifts are gifts and manifestations are manifestations. They are not the same thing. On the subject we are discussing, the gift is holy spirit, which comes with the ability to operate nine manifestations.


That is certainly one of them!

The gifts are manifestations, that is, they are demonstrated acts to show others/teach others/help others/understand others what God wants to show/do for His glory through us. 'Manifestation gifts' are the best way to explain it, ,shroomers and peacefulbeliver, to you and you

The Holy Spirit is a gift but not in the classical sense of a gift, like something given you, like salvation, like freedom from your sins for repenting. The gift of the Holy Spirit is who He is. This is hard to explain but their are many , many manifestations (not just 9 I listed in eariler post) from God given to us freely as a gift given us by the Holy Spirit.

God gives us the gifts through the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does NOT equal a 'gift,' like, for example, the gift of prophecy that is manifested to us through the divine power indwelled to us from the Holy Spirit, His gift to us.

 

[Albino_Nun]

It can be a language of men or angels (1 Cor 13:1)

It is not a gift, it is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of holy spirit, which every Christian, by definition, has.

I speak in tongues a lot.

Would you please provide the source that describes what the nine manifestations are. Thank you.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The gifts are manifestations, that is, they are demonstrated acts to show others/teach others/help others/understand others what God wants to show/do for His glory through us. 'Manifestation gifts' are the best way to explain it, ,shroomers and peacefulbeliver, to you and you

The Holy Spirit is a gift but not in the classical sense of a gift, like something given you, like salvation, like freedom from your sins for repenting. The gift of the Holy Spirit is who He is. This is hard to explain but their are many , many manifestations (not just 9 I listed in eariler post) from God given to us freely as a gift given us by the Holy Spirit.

God gives us the gifts through the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does NOT equal a 'gift,' like, for example, the gift of prophecy that is manifested to us through the divine power indwelled to us from the Holy Spirit, His gift to us.

It seems to me the best way to "explain it" is to let the word of God speak for itself!
Acts 2:38 . . . .Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of holy spirit.
Acts 8:19,20. . give me also this power that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the holy spirit. But Peter said unto him, thy money parish with thee because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Acts 11:15-17 And as I began to speak the holy spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning (Acts 2:4) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water but ye shall be baptized with the holy spirit. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

How did Peter know the Gentiles had received the like gift? They operated one of the 9 manifestation; they spoke in tongues. If you'll notice in 1 Co. 12:1 the word "gifts" is italicized meaning it was added. The word spiritual is pneumatikos meaning spiritual matters or spiritual things. Then in v7 the word BUT sets in contrast what has been said before - "But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal." Then the nine manifestations are listed.

So from the word of God we see that holy spirit is referred to as the gift from God. There has to be an understanding of "the Holy Spirit" God the giver of the gift ; and the gift of "holy spirit" given to every born again believer.

 

[Dude653]

Sorry, I dont read super long posts,,but to say that speaking in toungues is not of God is to blaspheme the holy Spirit

 

[shroom2]

The gifts are manifestations, that is, they are demonstrated acts to show others/teach others/help others/understand others what God wants to show/do for His glory through us. 'Manifestation gifts' are the best way to explain it, ,shroomers and peacefulbeliver, to you and you

The Holy Spirit is a gift but not in the classical sense of a gift, like something given you, like salvation, like freedom from your sins for repenting. The gift of the Holy Spirit is who He is. This is hard to explain but their are many , many manifestations (not just 9 I listed in eariler post) from God given to us freely as a gift given us by the Holy Spirit.

God gives us the gifts through the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does NOT equal a 'gift,' like, for example, the gift of prophecy that is manifested to us through the divine power indwelled to us from the Holy Spirit, His gift to us.

The name is "shroom2", Greenie.

Read PeacefulBeliever's post. The gift is holy spirit. Tongues is a manifestation of that gift.

 

[unclefester]

I'll make this brief.

Faith : Heb. 11:1 (ESV)
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hope: Rom.8:24 (ESV)
For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees ?

We know this also.

1 Corinthians :13:8 (ESV)
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

And lastly, this.

1 Corinthians : 13:13 (ESV)
So now .... faith, hope and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

If tongues remain until Christ returns .... and faith and hope abide after tongues has ceased, why would we need faith, the conviction of things not seen ..... and why would we hope for what we now have seen ..... for when Christ does return, both our faith and hope shall be fully realized ...... 1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him .... because we shall see Him as He is.

Somebody tell me again ...... when do tongues cease ?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I'll make this brief.

Faith : Heb. 11:1 (ESV)
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hope: Rom.8:24 (ESV)
For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees ?

We know this also.

1 Corinthians :13:8 (ESV)
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

And lastly, this.

1 Corinthians : 13:13 (ESV)
So now .... faith, hope and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

If tongues remain until Christ returns .... and faith and hope abide after tongues has ceased, why would we need faith, the conviction of things not seen ..... and why would we hope for what we now have seen ..... for when Christ does return, both our faith and hope shall be fully realized ...... 1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him .... because we shall see Him as He is.

Somebody tell me again ...... when do tongues cease ?

When we don't need it or any of the other manifestations - we use the manifestations for our edification and the edification of the church -- For now we see through a glass darkly; but then FACE TO FACE: now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known -- Yes, now are we the sons of God. . .and when he appears we shall see him FACE TO FACE . . .we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is and we will put away childish things.

 

[GreenNnice]

It seems to me the best way to "explain it" is to let the word of God speak for itself!
Acts 2:38 . . . .Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of holy spirit.
Acts 8:19,20. . give me also this power that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the holy spirit. But Peter said unto him, thy money parish with thee because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Acts 11:15-17 And as I began to speak the holy spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning (Acts 2:4) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water but ye shall be baptized with the holy spirit. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

How did Peter know the Gentiles had received the like gift? They operated one of the 9 manifestation; they spoke in tongues. If you'll notice in 1 Co. 12:1 the word "gifts" is italicized meaning it was added. The word spiritual is pneumatikos meaning spiritual matters or spiritual things. Then in v7 the word BUT sets in contrast what has been said before - "But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal." Then the nine manifestations are listed.

So from the word of God we see that holy spirit is referred to as the gift from God. There has to be an understanding of "the Holy Spirit" God the giver of the gift ; and the gift of "holy spirit" given to every born again believer.

-----
You must receive the Holy Spirit, it is an act . Just because you become a believer does not mean you
automatically receive the Holy Spirit , as Shroomers said (cmon, get over it, my nic for you is cool, little too sensitive I'd say, Shroom2, but your wish is God's command .

You must , yes, become baptized in the Holy Spirit, someone(s) must speak in tongues over you or something similar. But the former is how I received HS .

The Holy Spirit IS the gift to us from God, which I say on my lovely green writings, what a lovely colour , it be a little late here on puget sound and I should look more at context of your 'Holy Spirit' verses.before assuming you and I are actually agreeing, PB

God bless

 

[unclefester]

When we don't need it or any of the other manifestations - we use the manifestations for our edification and the edification of the church -- For now we see through a glass darkly; but then FACE TO FACE: now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known -- Yes, now are we the sons of God. . .and when he appears we shall see him FACE TO FACE . . .we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is and we will put away childish things.

Respectfully PB, this hasn't answered my question nor addressed my point. I'll reiterate. We know from the scriptures that faith, hope and love abide (or remain) AFTER prophecy and knowledge has passed away .... and after tongues have ceased. Again ..... if tongues do in fact remain until the return of Christ, why ..... and what would be the necessity of having faith and hope ? When Christ returns, we will be in His presence. We shall see Him as He is. Faith ....the conviction of things not seen. Hope ....hope that is seen is not hope. And yet, scripture clearly states that both of these (along with love which is always eternal) abide or remain AFTER tongues have ceased. Now either faith and hope are carried into eternity in Christ's presence, which clearly contradicts the scriptures ..... or tongues cease prior to the return of Christ. It is one or the other.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Respectfully PB, this hasn't answered my question nor addressed my point. I'll reiterate. We know from the scriptures that faith, hope and love abide (or remain) AFTER prophecy and knowledge has passed away .... and after tongues have ceased. Again ..... if tongues do in fact remain until the return of Christ, why ..... and what would be the necessity of having faith and hope ? When Christ returns, we will be in His presence. We shall see Him as He is. Faith ....the conviction of things not seen. Hope ....hope that is seen is not hope. And yet, scripture clearly states that both of these (along with love which is always eternal) abide or remain AFTER tongues have ceased. Now either faith and hope are carried into eternity in Christ's presence, which clearly contradicts the scriptures ..... or tongues cease prior to the return of Christ. It is one or the other.

Actually the verse does not say: that faith, hope and love abide (or remain) AFTER prophecy and knowledge has passed away .... and after tongues have ceased.

It says - And NOW abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[GreenNnice]

Actually the verse does not say: that faith, hope and love abide (or remain) AFTER prophecy and knowledge has passed away .... and after tongues have ceased.

It says - And NOW abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

--+++
'...faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love.'

Curious, pb, where do you get charity for 'love.'. Charity is an act of giving, not loving. Charity is done with love but it is not love. Which bible says 'charity' substituted for 'love,'.
I knew we wouldn't agree for tooo terribly wrong, milady
---+
Bottom line: we can talk about speaking in tongues importance/unimportance to the believer's walk until we are all blue in the face (I will be green in the face, mind you ) but there is NO salvation significance to speaking on tongues, for Salvation (where you spend eternity- Heaven or hell) comes from OBEDIENCE and, sure, as Shroom2 says, every believer has the gift of speaking in tongues BUT , as I say, it is only available through God manifesting that gift through you, and, IF you get it it will be in situation that is His, for His glory.

God bless.

 

[shroom2]

If I may...

--+++
'...faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love.'

Curious, pb, where do you get charity for 'love.'. Charity is an act of giving, not loving. Charity is done with love but it is not love. Which bible says 'charity' substituted for 'love,'.
I knew we wouldn't agree for tooo terribly wrong, milady

Try the KJV.

Bottom line: we can talk about speaking in tongues importance/unimportance to the believer's walk until we are all blue in the face (I will be green in the face, mind you ) but there is NO salvation significance to speaking on tongues, for Salvation (where you spend eternity- Heaven or hell) comes from OBEDIENCE

Correct. A person can be saved and never speak in tongues. Most Christians are in that boat.

and, sure, as Shroom2 says, every believer has the gift of speaking in tongues

Every Christian has the gift of holy spirit, and has the ability to operate the manifestations of that gift, one of which is speaking in tongues. (just to set the record straight... )

BUT , as I say, it is only available through God manifesting that gift through you, and, IF you get it it will be in situation that is His, for His glory.

God has already given every Christian the ability. Most don't know it. It's not God's fault. He, through Paul, says "I would that ye all spake with tongues".

 

[unclefester]

Actually the verse does not say: that faith, hope and love abide (or remain) AFTER prophecy and knowledge has passed away .... and after tongues have ceased.

It says - And NOW abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

And NOW abideth faith, hope and charity ..... in reference to WHAT ? They're only abiding NOW but won't be abiding later on......is this what Paul meant ? Of course not. Exactly what were they being referenced to and WHY ? It is prophecy and knowledge passing away ....and tongues ceasing ...... while faith, hope and love still abide.

 

[resurrection33]

What does speaking in tongues mean to you? Would you say you have ever experienced it?

Even though I am non-denominational I did grow up in Pentecostal Churches and I know what they consider the gift of tongues to be. Not once in my life have I ever felt the desire or need to "speak in tongues" the way that they do. I'm not saying they are wrong, but I'm not saying the are right either. I'm saying I am unsure.

Paul told us not to speak out loud in tongues unless someone is there who can interpret what we are saying.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

And NOW abideth faith, hope and charity ..... in reference to WHAT ? They're only abiding NOW but won't be abiding later on......is this what Paul meant ? Of course not. Exactly what were they being referenced to and WHY ? It is prophecy and knowledge passing away ....and tongues ceasing ...... while faith, hope and love still abide.

When Christ returns we will have no need of any of these things but NOW we have need of these things. As far as I know - prophecies haven't failed yet, tongues have not ceased yet and I don't believe that knowledge has vanished away . If knowledge has vanished away then we are all ignorant

 

[unclefester]

When Christ returns we will have no need of any of these things but NOW we have need of these things. As far as I know - prophecies haven't failed yet, tongues have not ceased yet and I don't believe that knowledge has vanished away . If knowledge has vanished away then we are all ignorant

All prophecy and knowledge given by our Lord Saviour and God is already contained in His divinely inspired Word. Tongues served their intended purpose. They validated that the message of the Apostles were from God to the unbelievers in the establishment of laying the foundation of Christ's church. "Modern day apostles and prophets" are bogus. There is no such thing. The same goes for today's tongues.

 

[shroom2]

All prophecy and knowledge given by our Lord Saviour and God is already contained in His divinely inspired Word. Tongues served their intended purpose. They validated that the message of the Apostles were from God to the unbelievers in the establishment of laying the foundation of Christ's church. "Modern day apostles and prophets" are bogus. There is no such thing. The same goes for today's tongues.

Absolutely not true, Fester. There are still apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, and the manifestations are still available and beneficial to individuals and the body of Christ.

It's true there are false prophets, as there have always been, but there are still legit ones as well.

1 Cor 13:
8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Eph 4:
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

You believing they ceased is just that, your belief.