Test all things! 1Th 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.

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Feb 11, 2012
1,358
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#1
Natural sin,(original sin) Substitution, Moral Transfer, Imputed Righteousness and Eternal security are NOT taught in the Bible, nor were they entertained by the Pre-Augustinian writers of the Christian Faith. At best, these Notions are based on pure Conjecture. Study the record and discover that each of these tenets were INVENTED at some Point in History LONG after the Early Church passed away. Most of the Fallacies can be traced directly back to Pagan Teachings derived out of ancient Rome. All this can easily be confirmed by Study of historical Documents available on line with a close Comparison of Bible Scripture.



For those of you who are unaware, the Early Christians emphatically Taught and Believed that Jesus was a Teacher of Righteousness by Example. Sound Doctrine meant Godly Living here and now. Jesus Death on the Cross was Not only a fulfillment of Prophesy, but in theory a Ransom aimed at Rescuing man from the Corrupting influence of sin. Faith Purified the heart by Obedience to the Truth and Repentance meant you STOP Sinning Before the Holy Spirit could indwell. Judgment was according to Deeds done in the Body and Both Repentance & Faith were PROVEN by Deeds.

I would encourage you to do some research on these teachings, www.standingthgap.org, has done this for you. I know your churches may teach some of these things, that were added to the word during the Reformation, and have corrupted the pure gospel according to godliness.
There is alot of information out there that will cause you to rethink what your pastors are teaching you, and hopefully you will be able to see the great difference between what is being taught as truth today, and what the early church taught, they both cant be right.
Please take some time to do the research, there is alot of information on what the early church taught, and it goes against all the teachings of today.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#2
What the?!?!?!

Original sin. . .have you even read Genesis? Also read Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15.
Imputed Righteousness (Imputed -- estimated to have a certain value, although no money has been received or credited). . .Genesis 15:5-6, Romans 4:3-9,Romans 4:24-25, Hebrews 11, etc
Eternal Security. . .Matthew 19:16-22, Matthew 25:46, John 3:14-16, John 10:28, Romans 5:21, Romans 6:23, 2 Corinthians 5:1-6, I could go on and on, but gonna focus in 2 cor 5:1. "
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." When we die we will go to be with God in Heaven, so the question is what do we know about heaven? Revelation 21 says,"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”" There will be no more sin once we are in heaven because the root cause of death, sorrow and pain is sin ("the former things have passed away"). That means once we have eternal live we cannot lose it.
Substitution. . .I am not sure what you mean here, but I will for the moment assume you mean the substitution of Jesus' death and resurrection FOR our sin. 1 Corinthians 15:1-3, Galatians 1:3-4, 1 Peter 3:18, Ephesians 5:1-2, Ephesians 5:25-27, Isaiah 53:4-12, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Romans 4:24-25, Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10 and I could go on.

Basically other than Moral Transfer which I have never even heard of, though sounds sketchy just by its name, none of the teachings (Original Sin, Substitution, Eternal Security, and Imputed righteousness) are anti-biblical. Original sin is in the bible, Substitution (of Jesus for our sins) is in the bible, Eternal life and security is in the bible and imputed righteousness is in the bible.

You said "Faith Purified the heart by Obedience to the Truth and Repentance meant you STOP Sinning Before the Holy Spirit could indwell. " One massive problem with that is Peter and Paul both had the Holy Spirit, but never claimed they no longer sinned. IN FACT, Paul himself said "For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. " and John said "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." The Bible teaches against what you claim the early church taught and I will go with the Bible every time.


 
Feb 11, 2012
1,358
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#3
I will have to disagree with you on all counts, if you can prove that all these false teachings are in the gospel, which gospel are you reading?
or else you may be a Calvinist, or still involved in the Church, I am not here to argue with you, as I believed all those false reformed teachings were in the word also, you can take some scriptures out of context to prove your point, I just ask you to do some research before you come to any conclusions.

Original sin is a lie, and I encourage you to check out the web page I suggested, and open your Bible and mind to the truth, because if you believe in any of those reformed doctrines, you have been blinded by the wolves, such as John Piper, John Macarthur, Ed Young, and a host of many more false teachers, leading millions astray.
I just don't see any of these teachings coming out of the early church, which makes them suspicious, and original sin came out of paganism, if you check it out you will see as I did, so if you want a discussion, please check out all the information given in the site, with plenty of scripture to back it up.

The Gospel of Sin!
The present day churches are much under the control of the Second Beast John beheld in Revelation Chapter13. There are few exceptions, don’t flatter yourself that you may be one of them until you examine the facts! This Beast has the appearance of a Lamb but Speaks as a Dragon, Rev13:11. And he has crafted an IMAGE that looks, walks and talks like the Real Jesus! BUT the Image is NOT the Jesus of Scripture who calls His followers to Repentance, self-denial and Obedience, he is a ‘Representation’ of Jesus who fits into man’s Carnal designs in any manner they wish Him to be!
This scandal of error is deeply rooted in our culture dating back to the early days of what history refers to as the ‘Reformation.’ (1500-1700) However it not our purpose to investigate every aspect of its development over time, only to expose the culmination of its effect on our present generation. Throughout history it has tested many extremes but has ALWAYS resulted in the same conclusions, which is LAWLESS behavior among those who embrace it as Truth.
Sound Doctrine ALWAYS leads to GODLY behavior. 1Tim1:4-5. The PURPOSE of the Commandment is love from a PURE heart, good conscience and sincere (not false) faith. Any system of doctrine that does not produce these results in the hearts of the people who receive it contains a MIXTURE of error and has NOTHING to do with the Teaching of Jesus Christ. (1Tim6:3)
The doctrine of ‘Imputed Righteousness’ as taught today in Christendom undermines the very foundations of Godliness and creates what some have termed a ‘moral dilemma’ of immense magnitude. All teaching of Obedience and obligation to the moral law of God is negated under this system because BEHAVIOR doesn’t count. The hearers draw the natural conclusion that since God doesn’t see them sin and they are Cloaked in the Righteousness of Jesus, NOTHING they do can add or detract from the ultimate outcome of their final salvation. It’s already a done deal! Signed and delivered on the Cross, PAID in advance, so to speak, and waiting for a personal acknowledgement of what has ALREADY taken place at Calvary.
Naturally words to the effect of ‘Trust, faith and love’ will be used to convey the process of ‘receiving’ this finished work, but here the Dragon is MOST pervasive with his great swelling words of emptiness! By promising LIBERTY in Christ he subtlety implies that this liberty means freedom from keeping the moral law or any obligation of obedience. (not of works!)
Thus while you remain a slave to your own corruption (inside your heart) you are Cloaked in the Righteousness of Jesus by proxy and God no longer holds anything against you, including your personal sinfulness, which will continue till you die. Only now God will ‘Pretend’ that your Righteous (as He did with Abraham!) even though in reality you remain vile. You end up no better off than the Pharisees of old who were ‘Clean’ on the outside but FILITHY within. THIS, the modern purveyors of doctrine say is, the EXCEEDING RIGHTEOUSNESS Christ offered in Matt5:20.
The Apostle Paul would call this, ‘Profane vain babbling and contradiction falsely called knowledge!’ 1Tim6:20. But the present day preachers occupying our pulpits just choose to ignore it or go about teaching it themselves. God forbid anyone REFUTE it as the doctrine of devils! Therefore the vast majority of professing Christians are being influenced either totally or to some degree by this awful distortion. With the strength of numbers on the side of the Dragon, the consensus of opinion is heavily weighted toward error. The people are getting what they want and the Focus of Truth is anything but INWARD to expose the vileness of the heart. Salvation has reached new lows and a profession of faith is seldom accompanied by repentance and godly sorrow for sin. Therefore the Fruit of the Spirit is almost non-existent among the so-called believers because their hearts were never really Transformed by faith.
They were merely convinced psychologically that Jesus is a better choice and may provide them an improved version of their present life if they ‘accept’ His package and go to church. The moral tone to the message will serve to convince them that Christianity has indeed been embraced and thus the delusion is complete! The Lamb who speaks the language of the Dragon has snared another soul into his web of lies using ‘baited words’ to lure their simple hearts into Perdition.
The Twisted Version of Imputed Righteousness teaches the following:
1. You are declared Righteous at the moment of Justification by faith in Christ
2. God then Transfers the Righteousness of Christ to you and no longer holds you accountable for sin
3. You are declared ‘Positional’ Righteous, but ‘Practically’ you still sin
4. God doesn’t see you sin, He only sees Christ as your Cloak
5. NOTHING you do, no matter how vile, will effect the outcome of your salvation
To various extremes this is the Gospel message MOST people are hearing today as representative of Christianity. Ignore it if you wish. Pretend it’s not influencing ‘your’ church, but don’t expect the situation to improve until SOME at the local level WAKE UP to the Danger and start Contending for the faith! We need clarion definitions of Repentance, Faith and Obedience and a Grass Roots return to the Doctrine Which is according to godliness. Not merely in theory, but in PRACTICE!
sins are forgiven in advance you certainly won’t have any abhorrence in committing them (even willfully) in fact you will have a natural tendency to sin more blatantly than before because God has ALREADY forgiven you ahead of time.
Do the ministers realize the devastating effect this teaching has on the general public? They constantly bemoan the fact that our churches, schools and government are in moral morass. Yet this moral degradation can be directly traced to what they are proclaiming from their pulpits. Professed converts are constantly hearing about ‘unconditional love’, ‘sins forgiven in advance’, ‘not of works’, ‘Grace covers it all!’ Who is going to take their personal sins serious enough to repent and forsake them in the Name of Christ when the VERY FOUNDATION of godliness has been removed from the pages of Scripture!? The natural consequence of this message is the elimination of repentance altogether, at least the godly sorrow repentance of scripture.
People are told that they have merely to ‘admit’ they are sinners and God will pronounce them Justified by faith and Righteous in Christ. The inference is that you remain a ‘sinner’ saved by Grace and wretched within until you die and are eventually glorified. You may sin ‘less and less’ as you attempt to grow but your eternal salvation is already sealed in Christ and Nothing you do or don’t do will change your final destination. Thus Genuine repentance is null and void and therefore True Salvation IMPOSSIBLE! Here the Dragon has his decisive victory over the Church. At the very MOMENT of Birth, where True WORKING Faith can Transform the heart from shame to glory, the Serpent aborts the process and Declares you Righteous ‘in’ your sins.
As the ‘sinning religion’ takes hold of the conscience the heart is seared with the hot iron of human lust. Self-indulgence takes its natural course and the ‘form’ of godliness seals the fate. This is the reason that most professed Christians receive NOT a love of the truth. (2Thess2:10) It appears as though they enjoy hearing the Word and Worshiping the Son, but turn the focus of His Light INWARD to expose the deep recesses of their hearts and you will find them taking ‘Pleasure’ in unrighteousness instead of Truth. Press the issues of Obedience and Purity and soon the odds will be stacked against you. Converts forgiven in advance are not going to have much of a desire to Guard their hearts from temptation or resist besetting sin.
As long as the prevailing winds of Doctrine are allowed to blow unopposed in the present day church we can'’ expect to get any deeper into the Word of God than the next formula driven fad that sweeps in and creates another instant hype among the masses. The Platform belongs to the Dragon and his false prophets and the Goats flock to hear them expound. What chance does the lowly man of God have amid the clamor of sound and lights? His Message is simple, ‘Christ Crucified and the flesh subdued. Repent, deny self take up your Cross and follow Jesus!’ No hype, no colorful speech, no accolades. Just an upright and Obedient heart that will love and Serve the Lord without pretense and give HEED to His warning, "BE CAREFUL WHO your are hearing and the MANNER in which you are hearing him!"
"Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness." Titus 1:1
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#4
Its great that you can copy and paste someone elses opinions, but have you looked at even a portion of the scripture I gave you? In some cases I put only one verse but that is because I did not have to time to include everything. I only use verses that in their context mean what they mean. You might be able to ignore massive chunks of scripture but for me and my house we will serve the Lord. I will agree that much of what you claim is being taught, but it does not truly come from the reformation, but from false teacher from our own time who have in many cases twisted the teachings of the reformation. I am not saying the reformers had it all correct, but some of you claim is also false so don't try and pretend you are better than they. Trust the Bible and Holy Spirit to teach you, not some random guy on the internet, you said in the title "Test all things!" but you yourself are spouting someone elses teachings some of which are not keeping in line with the Bible. You misunderstand the concept of forgiveness, God forgives us if we accept Jesus' sacrifice for our sins, if we truly have faith we repent and turn from our lives of sin. This DOES NOT mean we will never again sin, but that we live a life striving to follow all that God commands us. You can't make a statement like "Faith Purified the heart by Obedience to the Truth and Repentance meant you STOP Sinning Before the Holy Spirit could indwell. ", because then you also state that Paul, Peter and John who all accepted that they were still here in the flesh and thus still sinned sometimes were not really saved and thus could not have had the Holy Spirit indwell. Paul's letters clearly tell us that we should not live in sin, but that being in flesh that we are not yet made perfect. Noone but Jesus has or will ever live without sin, we can do nothing to save ourselves, but we must respond to His gift with obedience (not perfection) or we don't truly believe.
 
E

enochson

Guest
#5
do I hear the song from the twilight zone!