The Gifts

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Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#1
I once heard a preacher say "It is not what God gives us, it is how we use what we are given".

That same preacher also said "When something is on fire we want to throw water on it. When it comes to the Holy Spirit in us, let the fire burn''.


There are some who believe that the gifts of God are only for certain people. Some believe that they are no longer needed or warranted. Some believe that whoever uses these gifts are somehow corrupted. AND even some believe it is their job to quench that ''corruption'' out of people.

Who made you a Holy Spirit quencher? Who are you to say those gifts are no longer needed? Who are you to cast doubt? Who are you to say that those gifts are not real?

There are for certain people who fake such things for money, use them for selfish reasons to decieve people. And even some who try to manifest those gifts so they can ''seem'' Holy Spirit filled.


Certainly they did not end as Paul taught about them to the Corinthians and others in scripture.



But we are promised that there will be false teachers etc.

It is some people who believe they are now somehow annointed by God to hunt down and destroy people (anyone) who has these gifts and truly uses them as God intended.

Surely there are false manifestations of these gifts...but there are surely TRUE manifestations of theses gifts. Who then are you to determine what is true and from God?

They attack with the Word of God. They use thier own life as an example to thwart anyone who has experienced these gifts in any way. They determine by either study in scripture or by ''spiritual discernment'' that ANY gift manifested is somehow the work of Satan.

Some are fakes and some are real. God forbid the fakers and uplift the true believers.
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#2
I once heard a preacher say "It is not what God gives us, it is how we use what we are given".

That same preacher also said "When something is on fire we want to throw water on it. When it comes to the Holy Spirit in us, let the fire burn''.

There are some who believe that the gifts of God are only for certain people. Some believe that they are no longer needed or warranted. Some believe that whoever uses these gifts are somehow corrupted. AND even some believe it is their job to quench that ''corruption'' out of people.

Who made you a Holy Spirit quencher? Who are you to say those gifts are no longer needed? Who are you to cast doubt? Who are you to say that those gifts are not real?

There are for certain people who fake such things for money, use them for selfish reasons to decieve people. And even some who try to manifest those gifts so they can ''seem'' Holy Spirit filled.

Certainly they did not end as Paul taught about them to the Corinthians and others in scripture.

But we are promised that there will be false teachers etc.

It is some people who believe they are now somehow annointed by God to hunt down and destroy people (anyone) who has these gifts and truly uses them as God intended.

Surely there are false manifestations of these gifts...but there are surely TRUE manifestations of theses gifts. Who then are you to determine what is true and from God?

They attack with the Word of God. They use thier own life as an example to thwart anyone who has experienced these gifts in any way. They determine by either study in scripture or by ''spiritual discernment'' that ANY gift manifested is somehow the work of Satan.

Some are fakes and some are real. God forbid the fakers and uplift the true believers.
Amen and Amen! :)
 
May 18, 2011
1,815
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#3
AMEN, AMEN, those who claim such garbage speaks against the word of Yah. They walk a dangerous ground. Those who pretend to have these gifts for selfish reasons tread even a worse judgement to fall upon them.
 
R

Relena7

Guest
#4
Thank you so much for sharing this...I was upset about these very kinds of thoughts the other day and couldn't focus on anything else...This helps ease my mind in ways I can't express. :)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#5
Just more scare tactics to keep people in bondage lest they hold up and test
spiritual matters to the test of scripture which by the way tells us to not be
ignorant about these matters. What would ignorance bother?1 cor 12
And what would the knowledge gain if it didnt cause discernment which is
the same as the ability to judge. And if heeded and followed there wouldnt
even be a chance for the false spirituals and teachers to make gain.

Also the duty to discern, judge and such is not given to certain folk but to the
whole body of Christ. Judgement is a basic instruction to all believers and not
one can survive without it.

As far as saying some believe gifts are no longer in the church would simply
be silly and how could that even bother a believer? Every believer has special
gifts as it pleases the Lord. That also is basic and all through the epistles.

Sounds to me like a rant thread and that theres more to the story here than
what has been written. And by the way the anointing is in all believers so im
not sure what that was supposed to mean that people think they are anointed
to hunt people down.

What do you mean people attack with the word of God? Why does that stand out?
can you explain what an attack looks like? And what example can you share how
someone uses their past experiences as a part of this? Wouldnt that just be a war
from subjectivity against subjectivity?

I think i can see where this is coming from but this is my main response to this thread:

Has God equipted us through His word to judge spirituals? Yes or No?
Did He leave us in a place where we have to accept every spiritual and
subjective experience that roles into the church lest we fear as you said to quench the Spirit?

From my perspective youve been too vague and left me to believe noone can take
a stand when it come to spiritual things. If they do they are a spirit quencher, doubt causer etc.
In a period of church history when a flood of false spirituals, false teachings, and a ton of
paganism and subjectivism is taking over the church. As predicted and very much warned about
throughout the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. And you talk as if we are to be silent.

To say in this is about gifts wont cut it noone that believes the gospel would think there
are no gifts. Maybe you are talking about more specific things you havnt mentioned.
 
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C

Crossfire

Guest
#6
I once heard a preacher say "It is not what God gives us, it is how we use what we are given".

That same preacher also said "When something is on fire we want to throw water on it. When it comes to the Holy Spirit in us, let the fire burn''.


There are some who believe that the gifts of God are only for certain people. Some believe that they are no longer needed or warranted. Some believe that whoever uses these gifts are somehow corrupted. AND even some believe it is their job to quench that ''corruption'' out of people.

Who made you a Holy Spirit quencher? Who are you to say those gifts are no longer needed? Who are you to cast doubt? Who are you to say that those gifts are not real?

There are for certain people who fake such things for money, use them for selfish reasons to decieve people. And even some who try to manifest those gifts so they can ''seem'' Holy Spirit filled.


Certainly they did not end as Paul taught about them to the Corinthians and others in scripture.



But we are promised that there will be false teachers etc.

It is some people who believe they are now somehow annointed by God to hunt down and destroy people (anyone) who has these gifts and truly uses them as God intended.

Surely there are false manifestations of these gifts...but there are surely TRUE manifestations of theses gifts. Who then are you to determine what is true and from God?

They attack with the Word of God. They use thier own life as an example to thwart anyone who has experienced these gifts in any way. They determine by either study in scripture or by ''spiritual discernment'' that ANY gift manifested is somehow the work of Satan.

Some are fakes and some are real. God forbid the fakers and uplift the true believers.
Amen bro. I personally have seen people healed and others who have delivered from all kinds of addictions and emotional problems. I have also witnessed God answer prayer on numerous occasions for a variety of different reasons.

Unfortunately, I have also witnessed the counterfeit as well and they are about as numerous as the authentic. However, the true test to tell the difference is this: the authentic will not only operate in the gifts of the Spirit, they will possess the biblical fruit of the Spirit also. In my church, it doesn't matter what you claim your giftings are, if you do not possess Godly character (fruit) then you can sit down or go someplace else.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#7
Unfortunately, there are many on this website who have taken Matthew 7:21-23 completely out of context and insist that the scripture teaches that anyone and everyone today who dares to prophesy, cast out devils or perform miracles in Jesus name are of the devil. Of course these are the same people who believe it is God's will that their bodies are ate up with cancer and those who have little to no prayer life at all seeing as God seldom if ever answers their prayers anyway. ;)
 
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J

jkalyna

Guest
#8
:) JESUS SAID IF YOU DON'T BECOME AS A LITTLE CHILD YE IN NO WISE WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. A PURE HEART AND CLEAN HANDS GOD WILL NOT REJECT. A CHILD DOESNT THINK ABOUT RIDING A SPORT SUV, OR WEARING DESIGNER CLOTHES, THEY ARE CARE FREE SHOULD BE PURE IN THOUGHTS, EXCLUDING THE THINGS ON THE TUBE, AND IF THE LOVE OF GOD IS IN THE HEART, TRUST WILL BE THERE AND FAITH THAT NO HARM WILL COME TO THEM FROM THE FATHER. JESUS WARNED ABOUT SHEEP IN WOLFS CLOTHES, AND LUST OF MONEY, AND THE LUST OF THE EYE. HE SAID THESE ARE; WHITE WASHED SEPULCHURES, WITH DEAD MANS BONES INSIDE. A TOMB OF DEATH. THIS SAYS A LOT. BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING. WHY WOULD IT BE SAID THIS WAY? SOMETHING USED TO PREY UPON TO DECIEVE, TO TAKE FROM ANOTHER UNDER DISPLAYING FALSE IDENTITY. JESUS CHRIST IS THE HIGH PRIEST ONLY. IF WE FOLLOW HIS TEACHINGS, WE WILL NEVER BE DECIEVED. AMEN TO THE TRUTH GIVEN TO US .
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#9
JESUS CHRIST IS THE HIGH PRIEST ONLY. IF WE FOLLOW HIS TEACHINGS, WE WILL NEVER BE DECIEVED. AMEN TO THE TRUTH GIVEN TO US.
Amen dear sister! Far too many have put there trust in doctrines of men and they have a dead christianity that looks absolutely nothing like true christianity found in the scriptures. As Jesus himself would say: 'they have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of.'
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#10
Discernment of Spirits is not given to all. Just as any other gift is given by God as He sees them to be used by each person. Certainly there is learned discernment, but what is knowledge without LOVE?

What is also said by some to others who have experienced some or all of these gifts, is that they were somehow ''duped'' or the actions of the many around them ''caused'' them to be caught up in the moment. The Holy Spirit lands where it wants. Who is anyone to say that the Holy Spirit cannot be present in MANY. I am reminded of the day of Pentecost. Is this not to ever happen again?

Attacking with the Word of God is using what they believe they understand (and even if they do) to cast down people who ALSO want to learn and teach. And teaching that the gifts are real and we should use what God has given us for HIS glory. But, also teaching it as scripture says and not as we believe.

When someone says they have experienced such things, then it should be accepted as such and not told that it MAY have been ''spiritual peer pressure''. Let people experience the Holy SPirit (and the gifts as given) as God allows.

YES God does heal...and sometimes He does not. FAITH should stand above health or sickness and we should live in FAITH for God no matter the condition of our lives.

There are fakes out there, no doubt, but we cannot deny the truth of God and the gifts He has bestowed. If we do then we ar not only discounting what God IS doing in peoples lives, but, also placing a stumblingblock in front of the saved who seek the gifts of God in their lives.

Abiding:

In no way do I feel I am being vague. In no way is this a rant thread. In no way am I saying that we should not seek the truth in this world today. But to cast doubt before we accept is not what God wants us to do. As Paul said, we are all members of ONE BODY. Different gifts but of the same Spirit. And yes there are some out there who want to only quash people who claim to have these gifts.

"Now z you are the body of Christ, and a members individually. 28 And b God has appointed these in the church: first c apostles, second d prophets, third teachers, after that e miracles, then f gifts of healings, g helps, h administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
31 But i earnestly desire the 9 best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. "

We should never judge by appearances, but judging rightly is in the Holy Spirit.

Let others experience what they will and let them ''discern'' for themselves. We should mark those who teach falsely, but we should uplift those who seek the truth of God. And if by the Holy Spirit, then how can we judge accordingly?

And yes the FRUITS of the Holy Spirit ARE: Galatians 5:22-23:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

If no one is exhibiting these things then they are not walking in the Holy Spirit as Paul explained in the very same chapter. The fruits of the Holy Spirit should be evident in the life of a Christian. If these things are not manifest in a persons life then they are grieving the Holy Spirit. Because those fruits (in saved people trying to live as Christ) are meant to be SHOWN and SEEN by all people, saved or unsaved.

This thread is about examination of ones self, not about examination of someones FAITH. Our Faith is our OWN. We cannot live by someone elses FAITH, nor can we tell them to quench what we believe to be false. That is between them and God. Not YOU them and God.

Teach but do not become a task master. Learn but do not stop learning. Experience but do not stop experienceing.

The gifts are real. I have witnessed them. How do I know? Allowing the Holy Spirit to work and not grieving it. By seeing it with the Faith GOD gave ME. Not by allwoing someones elses Faith to lead me.
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
#11
T, Heres the thing:

For sure the Holyspirit gives all members of the church gifts. It is the most certain thing you can find in the scriptures.
Also we are told to test the spirits and judge these things. The problem is that the judgement must be taught by the
scripture. All over the word this is taught. Our armor spiritually is the word. eph6, even our love is to be educated by
the word to judge. phil1:9-11.

I see especially in cc a real jumpyness and a possible easily provoked crowd who feel threatened by anyone even remotly
trying to call out error or touching on the subject...some even call it attacking with the bible. This is sad because the bible
is what gives us both a washing and a strength in out faith in any area. So i think there is a lack of talk about spiritual things
rather than too much.

Again ill ask a question i already asked and it will point out a major difference and reason this is a problem some have.

Does the bible give us ample teaching and information on which to judge spirituals or not?
Are we all told to judge and test by the word of God or do we just shut up and anything goes?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
The Lord Jesus Christ commanded, "Judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). He told a man, "Thou hast rightly judged" (Luke 7:43). To others, our Lord asked, "Why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?" (Luke 12:57).

The Apostle Paul wrote, "I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say" (1 Corinthians 10:15). Again, Paul declared, "He that is spiritual judgeth all things" (1 Corinthians 2:15). It is our positive duty to judge.

furthermore:

"Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." (2 Corinthians 6:17; read also verses 14-18)

"From such turn away" (2 Timothy 3:5). "Withdraw yourselves." (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Ephesians 5:11)

"ABHOR THAT WHICH IS EVIL; CLEAVE TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD." (Romans 12:9)

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

It would be impossible to obey these injunctions of God's Word unless it were right to judge. And remember, nothing is "good" in God's sight that is not true to His Word. So what do we do with these scriptures?

Maybe there should be a thread started again on the whole subject of judging...that which is commanded and that which is forbidden.
Spiritual things cannot be judged by experiences. There must be a objective truth to do this.
 
Jun 1, 2011
472
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#13
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. ( 1 Peter 4:10 )

The gifts of the spirit are God-given gifts of special anointing endowed to the spirit -filled believers.these gifts cannot be earned or achieved through our own efforts .


Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. ( 1 Corinthians 12:1 )

Paul reveals the Church as the Body of Christ.He goes on to explain that the members of this "Body" of believers will excercise different gifts, even as the members of the human body have different functions and purposes. He points out that we, as members of the Body of Christ, are given different gifts designed to work together in harmony.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. ( 1 Corinthians 12:27 )

Besides the nine supernatural gifts listed in 1 corinthians 12, there are other gifts mentioned.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. ( 1 Corinthians 12:28 )

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. ( Roman 12:6-8 )

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
( Ephesians 4:8 )

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: ( Ephesians 4:11-13 )

Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. ( 1 Peter 4:9-10 )

Diversities of gifts -

As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. ( 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 )

Does every child of God receive a gift ?

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. ( Ephesians 4:7 )

For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. ( 1 Corinthians 7:7 )

about gifts -

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. ( 1 Corinthians 12:31 )

Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. ( 1 Corinthians 14:1 )

NINE MANIFESTATION GIFTS DEFINED -

1 ) Word of Knowledge - is when God reveals to you some unknown information or facts that you had no human way of knowing ( Read Acts 5:1-11 )

2 ) Word of Wisdom - is the imparting of divine intelligence and understanding through us to bring about a solution (action) to known circumstances ( Read 1 Kings 3:16-28 )

3 ) Discerning of Spirits - is the ability to discern or recognize the presence of an evil or good spirit and to identify it as well ( Read Acts 16:16-18 )

4 ) Gift of Faith - is confidence and knowledge in the heart about something that God will bring to pass ( Read Acts 3:1-9,16 )

5 ) Working of Miracles - is the intervention that bypasses all the natural and physical laws we live by read Acts 3:1-9 Acts 9:36-40 Acts 19:11-12

6 ) Gifts of Healing - is the healing of the body or mind not by diagnosis or by prescribing treatments, but by laying on of hands, anointing with oil or speaking the word ( Read Acts 28:8 )

7 ) Gift of Prophecy - is the utterance in the known language of the speaker and hearers
( Read 1 Corinthians 14:3-4 and 14:29 )

8 ) Gift of Tongues - is the utterance given by the Holy Spirit in languages never learned nor understood by the hearers ( Read 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 )

9 ) Gift of Interpretation of Tongues - is the interpretation of the Gift of Tongues
Read 1 Corinthians 14:13-14 and 14:32

Twelve Administrative Gifts Defined -

1 ) Prophet - the divine enablement to proclaim God's truth with power and clarity in a timely and culturally sensitive fashion for correction, repentance, or edification.

2 ) Teacher - ability to understand, clearly explain and apply the Word of God to the lives of the listeners.

3 ) Evangelist - to so effectively communicate the message of Christ to unbelievers that they respond in faith and discipleship.

4 ) Apostle/Missionary - to start churches and oversee their development.

5 ) Shepherd/Pastor - to lead, care for and nurture individuals or groups in the Body of Christ as they grow in their faith.

6 ) Help - to attach spiritual value to the accomplishment of physical tasks within the Body of Christ.

7 ) Administration/Governments - the special ability to plan, execute, and achieve procedures that increase the church's organizational effectiveness.
( Read 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 )

8 ) Encouragement/Exhortation - ability to reassure, strengthen and affirm those who are discouraged or wavering in their faith in such a way that they feel helped and healed.

9 ) Leadership - to attract , lead, and motivate people to accomplish the work of the ministry.

10 ) Mercy - to minister cheerfully and appropriately to people who are suffering.to feel sympathy with the misery of another.

11 ) Giving - more than the pocketbook, but giving of oneself.ability to contribute money and material resources to the work of the Lord with cheerfulness and liberality.the motivation behind the giving is to advance the work of the Lord.
( Read Romans 12:8 )

12 ) Hospitality - to care for new or needy people by providing fellowship, food and shelter.
( Read 1 peter 4:9 )

More on Gifts -

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. ( 1 Corinthians 14:2 )

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. ( 1 Corinthians 14:5 )

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. ( 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 )

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
( 1 Corinthians 14:26 )


The primary purpose of spiritual gifts is for the building up or edifying of believers by other believers. Each member is responsible for using spiritual gifts to help others in the body.Every believer is to be active in this area.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#14
Id like to point out(see above) that there are many gifts. Everyone is given them and they very much are needed.
Each of us has something divinely given for the other. That why gathering with other saints is so
essential for us for our health.

I think at times when people think of gifts they are really talking about the manifestations of the Holyspirit.
Which these days is misunderstood by many. Which is too bad. Ignorance in these is exactly why Paul wrote on them
so we wouldnt be ignorant.

But we surely all have special gifts. And to not use them is to withhold what you have been given to
nourish another. Sign gifts may have a purpose but those who seek after signs I believe are missing
out of the major purpose of gifts in general which is to edify the body and increase itself in love, of which
the majority of the gifts are not seen but provided through each of us in fellowship. And normally is promoted
from our sense of love and esteem for others.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#15
question: the bible says it has all things that pertain to life, and godliness.
Wouldnt you think the spirit realm, that as we are not equipted to deal
with, since its invisible, would have alot to do with our life, and godliness?
Would God leave us unequipted? or unable to deal with probably the most
scary and most damaging area of our lives?

How can subjective experiences and personal feelings test spirituals?
Isnt this the crux of the thread really? Since i dont think any true believer
doesnt hold to the fact that God gives all members of His body gifts.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#16
Amen dear sister! Far too many have put there trust in doctrines of men and they have a dead christianity that looks absolutely nothing like true christianity found in the scriptures. As Jesus himself would say: 'they have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of.'
first of all this scriptures intent is not what your using it for but has become a twisted doctrine of men,
secondly Jesus didnt say it.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#17
Possibly my last comment on this thread since this is mostly emotionally driven.
A study of 1 Cor 12 would help some here. In other words a better understanding
of v 7 and v11 are very important. The word "But" in v7 needs notice also

Also it would help understanding the importance of the word manifestation
in contrast to the word gift. Also an understanding of what each manifestation "really" is.

Truth sets us free saints. And God did not want us ignorant concerning spirituals.
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
#18
Does the bible give us ample teaching and information on which to judge spirituals or not?
Are we all told to judge and test by the word of God or do we just shut up and anything goes? YES....and Yes we are told to test it to the word of God...when all esle fails, dust your feet off and move on .Spiritual things cannot be judged by experiences. There must be a objective truth to do this. You just said a mouthfull right there.
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#19
1.) Define "Spirituals".

2.) Is it a doctrine of men to use the gifts as they are intended?

3.) In what way do we test every spirit?

4.) Who is spiritual and who is not? (as to judge one another)

5.) And once again, not everyone is given the gift of discernment. Who then can say that they can ''discern'' everything? This is often used as a tactic to call out folks, instead of the edification that the gifts are given for.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#20
first of all this scriptures intent is not what your using it for but has become a twisted doctrine of men,
secondly Jesus didnt say it.
You're right, it was Paul. I was getting ready for work and was in a hurry. So much for 'perfection' huh? ;)