Creation

[Cup-of-Ruin]

"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) and rasied us up with Him, and saved us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:1-6)

Paul uses hyperbole extensively in his writings, this is overstatement causing effect. First the context is not the subject of death but the sins resulting from lusts of the flesh which Paul likens to death or a deadness, and that is true, the results of indulgences of the flesh are; a numbness, dead like state of being, but not actually dead, it's hyperbole, the verse is not commenting on the state of the dead or the living.

"When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Colossians 2:13,14)

Same as before.

Spiritually mankind is dead. If we werent dead, John 3:5-7 would not make sense:

"Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'' (John 3:5-7)

That verse does not make sense, most Bible scholars know that John 3:5-7 is a mistranslation, that's why you are having trouble reconciling what I am saying.

You will find that it reads correctly translated from Koine Greek original scripture:

"You must be born from above"

This is one of the most hotly debated English translations of the KJV, as far as mistranslations go - this is a disaster, it must be deliberate. Many translations have it correctly rendered "ye must be born from above"

the verb gennao is accompanied by the adverb anothen , the closest English translation would be "from the top" - ano = above, then = from. John uses the expression only from above as opposed to bottom, so; John 19:23 "woven from the top (anothen) in one piece", John only ever uses this Greek expression to mean from above - the top!

"Again" is a total mistranslation that can only be satainc in design, it certainly has done alot of damage to the Gospel of Christ.

When John means "again" he uses other terms such as palin.

A short study in Koine Greek should give you a better understanding of what you are reading, unfortunately at this stage Satan has much time to change many Bibles and the KJV is one of the worst. But I don't want to get into a discussion on Bible translations.

Why would we need to be born again spiritually if we werent dead already? The concept of spiritual death is evident throughout scripture. So yes, Adam did die within that 24 hour period.

See it changes everything...You cannot be "born again", Christ says "Ye must be born from above"!

The Bible says that Adam was 930 years of age "then he died" , Bible does not say that Adam died one 'spiritual' death and then died again second time...it does not say that.

 

[worldlover]

honestly it's hard to determine how much amount of time did GOD spent to create all of these things but in my opinion, 6-day creation has more subtle meaning so maybe hours meant days, days meant weeks and that's what makes bible interesting, not all accounts have literal meanings. Some of them are metaphor that's why it's hard to learn all of them.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Even though there was no light for the first 3 days, the earth was still orbiting around the location of the sun in 24 hour periods i.e. days.

The purpose of the sun was to separate the day from night (light from dark).

Gen 1:14 Then God commanded, "Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals begin;

Further issues are, how can plants grow with just water before they had sunlight?

'Snail,

God had already created light in Gen. 1:3 and divided the darkness.

He uses the pural "lights" in Gen. 1:14, different to the "light" created in Gen. 1:3.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

honestly it's hard to determine how much amount of time did GOD spent to create all of these things but in my opinion, 6-day creation has more subtle meaning so maybe hours meant days, days meant weeks and that's what makes bible interesting, not all accounts have literal meanings. Some of them are metaphor that's why it's hard to learn all of them.

Greetings,

I agree, the 6-day creation is intricate and very subtle. Genesis is describing the actual Creation of the universe, if one wants to know how the universe was created, then one has to start with the Genesis account written by Moses, it's as much as God has decided He is going to tell us, we have to use that as a basis and go from there, if we want to understand anything. It has metaphorical elements and it has poetical fashions, Genesis employs all these things, it is not supposed to read like an instruction booklet on how to use a camera or drive a car, the Bible is describing a literal event but there are grammatical and historical applications to consider, Bible scholars use several steps of interpretaion in order to extract deeper and deeper meanings from the verses that they are reading.

 

[MusicalMe]

Alright, as promised, here are my various thoughts on Creation:

1. First and foremost, I believe God is the Creator.

2. I do not believe that it was a literal six-day creation.

3. I think the first chapter of Genesis is meant to be poetic. The structure and phrasing reads like ancient poetry much more than as a historical account.

4. I don't think it's a contradiction to believe in both God and evolution.

5. (And most importantly) It doesn't matter. We weren't there and we can't copy it... humanity will probably never know on this earth how everything came to be. For Christians, I think there are so many more important issues and getting in a tizzy over this one is counterproductive. I think it's an interesting topic to debate, but I don't think what you believe about the beginning of the universe is a vital element to salvation. Paul didn't say "if you confess with your mouth 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead and hold to the belief that the world was created in 6 literal days you will be saved." ... Jesus didn't say "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through me and a Creationist worldview."

Let's focus our energy on things that matter - loving others, helping those in need, spreading the message of Christ, finding our voice in a world that's not listening.

That may be a simple view of things, but that's what I believe.

 

[MahogonySnail]

'Snail,

God had already created light in Gen. 1:3 and divided the darkness.

He uses the pural "lights" in Gen. 1:14, different to the "light" created in Gen. 1:3.

You are correct, thanks for the correction.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Genesis is both literal and poetic. But I think it does matter what a person believes about this. Not believing in a 6 day literal creation is really to disbelieve in Christ and call Him a liar. That is because Jesus believed in a literal creation account of Genesis and being the Son of God He should know. And we are supposed to follow Christ, that includes believing in the same things He believed in. The lack of references by Christ to long-time spans in creation or evolution, and Him applying Genesis literally, leads us to believe Jesus believed in a literal 6 day creation. Besides, the 6 day creation is fundamental for Jesus's teachings on the Sabbath and Jewish history. The 7th is a day of rest. Further proof that to be Christian is to believe in a 6 day creation. So if we claim to follow Christ we really should believe in a 6 day creation as Christ did.

 

[MahogonySnail]

see:

http://www.icr.org/article/did-jesus-believe-creation/

 

[Slepsog4]

Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis recently wrote about why the "church" is losing so many of its young people. He suggests that we actually lose them at about the Jr. High level. It just does not always manifest itself until the later teens or early twenties.

The point of departure is apparently the compromise on the Creation account and the flood. Because so many professing believers are compromising on this or failing to really teach what the Bible says it plants a seed of skepticism.

 

[sweetlybroken1]

Slepsog4 I absolutely agree with you. I was able to sit in on a lecture given by Dr.Terry Mortenson last summer at the Creation Museum (by AIG). He spoke about that same fact. How if you break a foundation, everything else starts to crumble.

 

[doubleedge]

We must discern even through mistranslation, faulty punctuation, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, deception, disinformatin, misdirection (misleadings), & many other errors.