Faith and Deeds

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May 9, 2010
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#1
At first glance, this verse seems to contradict Romans 3:28, "We are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law." Deeper investigation, however, shows that the teachings of James and Paul are not at odds. While it is true that our good deeds can never earn salvation, true faith always results in a changed life and good deeds. Paul speaks against those who try to be saved by deeds... instead of true faith; James speaks against those who confuse mere intellectual assent with true faith. After all, even demons know who Jesus is, but they don't obey him. True faith involves a commitment of your whole self to God.

Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” (James 2:18).


What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead (James 2:14-26).
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#2


haha that made me laugh... sorry i'm easily distracted....

Faith is the beginning we should add to it diligently virtue, wisdom, self control, brotherly kindness, and love. After we have become rooted and mature in God's word and produced fruits of the Spirit God entrusts us with good works we are to accomplish for His glory. We do not choose the good works and they do not save us but God created us to walk in them so that in doing so we might Glorify His name and reveal to the world His love and light through us.
 
B

Bornfromabove

Guest
#3
. We do not choose the good works and they do not save us but God created us to walk in them so that in doing so we might Glorify His name and reveal to the world His love and light through us.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#4
I think Peter puts it best "5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."

I also want to add something, the Jewish people were not God's people because they kept the law, it was because they were God's people that they endeavored to keep it (though many didn't get that even amongst the Jewish people). We are not saved by our works, but if we truly have faith we would desire to keep Jesus' commandments out of love. Jesus, himself, said "if you love Me, keep my commandments". My opinion is tha
 
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CanadaNZ

Guest
#5
For me Peter says it best "5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."

Yes we are saved through faith, not by works, but Jesus, himself said "If you love Me, keep My commandments." If we truly love God we should not consider works a burden, but a joyful blessing that we get to do. Paul is right in saying we are not saved by works and James is right in saying that if you claim to have faith but don't do any works then you don't have faith. If you love God, show him!!!
 
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CanadaNZ

Guest
#6
I have something to add.

If you were married and you never showed your spouse that you loved them, what are the odds that it would be a lasting healthy marriage?? That's right! NONE!
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#7
We will be judged according to what we do.


Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
The answer to this age long question is fairly easy, for those who wish to find it. all we have to do is think.

1. what is the penalty of sin?
2. what can be done to remove that penalty?

then think. If the penalty is A, then the only way to be freed from that penalty is to have A happen. Not B not C and not D, for they can not help us. Only A can be sufficient.

we have two choices. Suffer A ourself. Or (according to the laws of redemption) have someone else suffer A in our place.

Why can't we see this? Pride gets in the way.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#9
The answer to this age long question is fairly easy, for those who wish to find it. all we have to do is think.

1. what is the penalty of sin?
2. what can be done to remove that penalty?

then think. If the penalty is A, then the only way to be freed from that penalty is to have A happen. Not B not C and not D, for they can not help us. Only A can be sufficient.

we have two choices. Suffer A ourself. Or (according to the laws of redemption)
have someone else suffer A in our place.

Why can't we see this? Pride gets in the way.

Where does the Bible actually teach that God requires someone to suffer in your place that He may forgive sin?
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#10
The answer to this age long question is fairly easy, for those who wish to find it. all we have to do is think.

1. what is the penalty of sin?
2. what can be done to remove that penalty?

then think. If the penalty is A, then the only way to be freed from that penalty is to have A happen. Not B not C and not D, for they can not help us. Only A can be sufficient.

we have two choices. Suffer A ourself. Or (according to the laws of redemption) have someone else suffer A in our place.

Why can't we see this? Pride gets in the way.
Exactly right, Jesus took our guilt away by suffering the penalty of the law on our behalf. And we can stand righteous before God because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. For those who want to try and do it on their own, they will NEVER SUCCEED. They have fallen from God's grace for even thinking that their works play any part in thier salvation. Repentance and good works will follow salvation, not the other way around. But some people just have to take the credit for their salvation. They think that as long as they do this or that, then they're saved. But if they fail to do this, or omit to do that, then they are unsaved again. It's lunacy!!!! They must walk around either fearful when they do wrong, or proud as peacocks when they think they're doing right. How awful to even imagine coming before almighty God with such an attitude!!!!
Stay away from anyone who preaches such a perverse doctrine.
God bless.

Tom
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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#11
Exactly right, Jesus took our guilt away by suffering the penalty of the law on our behalf. And we can stand righteous before God because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. For those who want to try and do it on their own, they will NEVER SUCCEED. They have fallen from God's grace for even thinking that their works play any part in thier salvation. Repentance and good works will follow salvation, not the other way around. But some people just have to take the credit for their salvation. They think that as long as they do this or that, then they're saved. But if they fail to do this, or omit to do that, then they are unsaved again. It's lunacy!!!! They must walk around either fearful when they do wrong, or proud as peacocks when they think they're doing right. How awful to even imagine coming before almighty God with such an attitude!!!!
Stay away from anyone who preaches such a perverse doctrine.
God bless.

Tom

You seem so certain. Would you please show exactly in the Bible where it specifically states that your guilt is taken away because Jesus Christ suffered the penalty in your place.

Where exactly in the Bible is that laid out?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#12
Exactly right, Jesus took our guilt away by suffering the penalty of the law on our behalf. And we can stand righteous before God because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. For those who want to try and do it on their own, they will NEVER SUCCEED. They have fallen from God's grace for even thinking that their works play any part in thier salvation. Repentance and good works will follow salvation, not the other way around. But some people just have to take the credit for their salvation. They think that as long as they do this or that, then they're saved. But if they fail to do this, or omit to do that, then they are unsaved again. It's lunacy!!!! They must walk around either fearful when they do wrong, or proud as peacocks when they think they're doing right. How awful to even imagine coming before almighty God with such an attitude!!!!
Stay away from anyone who preaches such a perverse doctrine.
God bless.

Tom
If works have nothing whatsoever to do with salvation then please explain why Paul wrote this...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work Out - G2716 - katergazomai
From G2596 and G2038; to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion: - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
Where does the Bible actually teach that God requires someone to suffer in your place that He may forgive sin?
your completely free to suffer your own penalty. God does not remove free will.

Again, I ask you, what does the Bible say is the penalty of sin?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#14
your completely free to suffer your own penalty. God does not remove free will.

Again, I ask you, what does the Bible say is the penalty of sin?

The wages of sin is death. We are made free from sin through Jesus Christ our Lord where out fruit is unto holiness the end of which is everlasting life.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


I answered your question and validated it with scripture. Can you do the same?

Where does the Bible actually teach that God requires someone to suffer in your place that He may forgive sin?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
If works have nothing whatsoever to do with salvation then please explain why Paul wrote this...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work Out - G2716 - katergazomai
From G2596 and G2038; to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion: - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).
who was the audience? people already saved by faith? or people still looking how to be saved.

God gives us salvation. he also gives us tools to do the works Paul said God saved us to do (eph 2: 8-10). This is what paul was talking about.

it is one thing to be saved. it is another to take that gift and not use it. we should be fearfull we do not use what god gave us.

again. Context.. you can't leave out context.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#16
You seem so certain. Would you please show exactly in the Bible where it specifically states that your guilt is taken away because Jesus Christ suffered the penalty in your place.

Where exactly in the Bible is that laid out?
You have to be joking to even ask such a question!!!!

I will give one verse just to see what you will do with it.

1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring us to God,..."

I could show more verses, but I know it will be wasted on someone who has made up their mind that they can do good works in order to earn their salvation.
I don't know who taught you these things, but I pray that God would open your eyes and heart to see the evil of it.
I am not angry with you, I am angry that young and weak Christians have to hear such evil doctrine.

Tom
 
Feb 11, 2012
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#17
Jesus came to ransom His creation from the bondages of sin and death, He did not take out place or wrath, sins are not pre- forgiven, obedience matters, eternal security is a lie. Mark 10-45.

Again lets see some biblical proof from you saved IN sin people, where Jesus was our substitute, and took our wrath, this teaching was added into scripture during the reformation, study the facts before you close your mind, and you will be amazed and shocked how your beliefs crumble to the ground!

2Ti 2:15Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane, vain babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#18
You have to be joking to even ask such a question!!!!

I will give one verse just to see what you will do with it.

1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring us to God,..."

I could show more verses, but I know it will be wasted on someone who has made up their mind that they can do good works in order to earn their salvation.
I don't know who taught you these things, but I pray that God would open your eyes and heart to see the evil of it.
I am not angry with you, I am angry that young and weak Christians have to hear such evil doctrine.

Tom
I am not joking.

I asked if you would please show exactly in the Bible where it specifically states that your guilt is taken away because Jesus Christ suffered the penalty in your place.


You quoted 1 Peter 3:18 and that says that Jesus Christ suffered one time for sins, Jesus who was righteous for us who are unrighteous, that He might bring us to God.

That verse does not say that your guilt it taken away because He suffered the penalty in your place. That verse doesn't even come close to saying what you are trying to make it say.

Again, show me in the Bible where such a thing is taught?
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#19
Jesus came to ransom His creation from the bondages of sin and death, He did not take out place or wrath, sins are not pre- forgiven, obedience matters, eternal security is a lie. Mark 10-45.

Again lets see some biblical proof from you saved IN sin people, where Jesus was our substitute, and took our wrath, this teaching was added into scripture during the reformation, study the facts before you close your mind, and you will be amazed and shocked how your beliefs crumble to the ground!

2Ti 2:15Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane, vain babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
Your screen name should be Tommy4Tommy.
God help you to see your wickedness.

Tom
 
Feb 11, 2012
1,358
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#20
Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Jesus was a sinless offering, once and for all, you touch the blood through repentance and faith, clearing your dead conscience to serve God free from the bondages of sin, now Jesus is your example to obey and follow, obedience in mandatory toward your final salvation.
He who endures to the end shall be saved, not Jesus endured for me so I try to obey, He gives up power over sin, and all the tools necessary to walk IN the light. 1 JN 1-7.

WE choose to go our own way, we loose our salvation, so repent and seek His mercy, flee the false teachings you are adhering to, stand against them, and be strong in the Lord!