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Thread: Do you stand with Israel?

  1. #21
    Deceased Abiding's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    You do understand there are two promises do you not?

    One is salvic

    One is not

    The jews owning their land given them did not have anything to do with their salvation.

    Why can't you separate the two?
    because it isnt true. and because its fulfilled. Or being fulfilled In Christ.

    Joshua 21:43-45
    King James Version (KJV)
    43And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

    44And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

    45There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; ALL CAME TO PASS.

    Lao already showed you what Abraham was looking to for fulfillment from Hebrews. And that is coming to pass. Why cant you seperate the two?
    Last edited by Abiding; April 25th, 2012 at 01:06 AM.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
    "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
    Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”


    He was saved the same way we are, By faith.
    True, after all they drink from the same Rock that we drink from.
    1Co 10:1- 4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    So wouldn't that mean they were born again?
    Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    [size=3]
    [size=3][color=blue][size=3]They are not saved, that is why they are our enemy concerning the gospel.

    [b]they are still elect because the physical promises made to their fathers still stand.
    So will they see the kingdom of God? Don't all elect get to see the kingdom of God?
    Last edited by doulos; April 25th, 2012 at 01:16 AM.

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    Senior Member GreenNnice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    We are to pray for Israel's turning to Jesus, love the sinner, hate the sin, but, yes, God's chosen makes this people group even more so we should be praying for.

    Right now, we need to be praying for peace with palestine and iraq to get rid of nuclear and bunkers debrided.

    Some may want to pray for this to cause great war, but, I assure you this, never pray dor bad things to happen, just prat for good things, and, that Jesus' coming again to sweep up The dead from four winds, heaven, and earth, is done when as many can be saved , and, not perish, as possible, because that is God's hope too.

    Israel is a people near and dear to God's heart. Pray for their deliverance, not just should we do that, it is important that we should do that. His will in scripture is for salvation unto The Jews before....

    He comes again.
    Without God, we have nothing. With Him, we have everything we ever need, and, more.

    Is compassion compassion at all if it's not based on the Truth ?

    The Holy Spirit leads ALL believers lives, wants to. Are you letting Him lead yours ?

    God bless your days !

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    Senior Member GreenNnice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    We are to pray for Israel's turning to Jesus, love the sinner, hate the sin, but, yes, God's chosen makes this people group even more so we should be praying for.

    Right now, we need to be praying for peace with palestine and iraq to get rid of nuclear and bunkers debrided.

    Some may want to pray for this rift to develop into great war ( and, it could, end everything), but, assuredly, we should never pray for bad things to happen to others. Just pray for good things, and, that Jesus' coming again to sweep up The dead from four winds, heaven, and earth, is done when as many can be saved , and, not perish, as possible, because that is God's hope too.

    Israel is a people near and dear to God's heart. Pray for their deliverance, not just should we do that, it is important that we should do that. His will in scripture is for salvation unto The Jews before....

    He comes again. John 4:22
    Last edited by GreenNnice; April 25th, 2012 at 01:38 AM.
    RachelBibleStudent likes this.
    Without God, we have nothing. With Him, we have everything we ever need, and, more.

    Is compassion compassion at all if it's not based on the Truth ?

    The Holy Spirit leads ALL believers lives, wants to. Are you letting Him lead yours ?

    God bless your days !

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    because it isnt true. and because its fulfilled. Or being fulfilled In Christ.

    Joshua 21:43-45
    King James Version (KJV)
    43And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

    44And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

    45There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; ALL CAME TO PASS.

    Lao already showed you what Abraham was looking to for fulfillment from Hebrews. And that is coming to pass. Why cant you seperate the two?
    Sorry abiding, Yes they possessed it. It was theres, but that is NOT fulfillment, It only makes what he said come true in part.

    Again read the promise.


    7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

    It does not say, "if you do this, I will give" It says, "I WIll" there are no conditions placed on this covenant.

    The covenant was said to be given to Abraham descendants, throughout their generations.

    Finally, the length of the covenant. It is said to be eternal in length, Again, last I checked, eternal means forever.

    Since God said "I Will" It is based on him, This is why Paul said they are beloved according to the promise, THIS is the promise Paul spoke of, Even paul considered it still active.


    Lao did not show me anything, He showed me that Abraham looked toward one part of his covenant. Daniel prayed about this covenant in CHapter 9, and how God had removed Isreal from her land according to Lev 26. And gabriel said that they would return, but not own it again until their sin is removed (they repent)
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    True, after all they drink from the same Rock that we drink from.
    1Co 10:1- 4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    So wouldn't that mean they were born again?
    Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


    So will they see the kingdom of God? Don't all elect get to see the kingdom of God?

    No, this is not talking about that kingdom, It is talking about being restored to the land of cannon as the covenant claims. This land was not promised to anyone other than Isreal.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    No, this is not talking about that kingdom, It is talking about being restored to the land of cannon as the covenant claims. This land was not promised to anyone other than Isreal.
    So does that mean you don't believe Old Testament saints like Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and Moses weren't born again and won't be a;;owed to see the kingdom of God?

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    No, this is not talking about that kingdom, It is talking about being restored to the land of cannon as the covenant claims. This land was not promised to anyone other than Isreal.

    EG my friend, you're wasting your proverbial breath. Some of these people on here just choose to ignore the clear message of scripture of YHVH's covenant with Israel. For whatever reason they are willfully blind to it. They ignore all endtime prophecy about Israel, not to mention that the New Jerusalem has the name of the 12 tribes of Israel on it, instead of the name of there church. You would have a better result preaching this to a wall.
    What they don't realise is their speaking against YHVH's covenant with Israel, and it will bring judgement on their head. They don't truly study the OT, therefore they don't have a clue as to what Israel really means to YHVH. They think with the mind of man, assuming Yah's mind must be the same.
    They don't know that when they speak against Israel this way, and they are when they are making declarations that YHVH is done with Israel, they are cursing Israel, and YHVH said "I will curse them who curse you."
    Any ways my friend, they don't have ears to hear, and so just wanted to say you're beating a dead horse. lol. It's unfortunate, but some must learn things the hard way.

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Sorry abiding, Yes they possessed it. It was theres, but that is NOT fulfillment, It only makes what he said come true in part.

    Again read the promise.


    7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

    It does not say, "if you do this, I will give" It says, "I WIll" there are no conditions placed on this covenant.

    The covenant was said to be given to Abraham descendants, throughout their generations.

    Finally, the length of the covenant. It is said to be eternal in length, Again, last I checked, eternal means forever.

    Since God said "I Will" It is based on him, This is why Paul said they are beloved according to the promise, THIS is the promise Paul spoke of, Even paul considered it still active.


    Lao did not show me anything, He showed me that Abraham looked toward one part of his covenant. Daniel prayed about this covenant in CHapter 9, and how God had removed Isreal from her land according to Lev 26. And gabriel said that they would return, but not own it again until their sin is removed (they repent)

    This was fulfilled IN Christ. You think Paul was talking about dirt? You think all these prophecies and covenants
    were about LAND? And you think Abrahams decendants was only a reference to who? jews?

    If this covenant over land is eternal. Im not saying it was about land, but you apparently think so. What
    is mount Zion? And what is Heavenly Jerusalem? Will the jews stay back with their eternal piece of dirt?
    You said eternal right? Im sure you not gona try to say later on God will do a switch on them are ya? Well
    of coarse He will and already has. The newcovenant has the real land Abraham was looking for. A city whos builder and maker is God. How many times and how long will there be this same error? Jesus talked about this understanding and corrected it. So did Paul.

    To get through the gospel and newtestament and book of Hebrews as well as several Old testament
    books you will eventually have to realize type and fulfillment. And what it is really all about.

    Ill go either way with eternal....first alot of times it doesnt mean forever as we think of it and also
    many times it is conditional. Even unconditional promises are conditional. But if life on earth according
    to dispensationalists is at best limited (lets say till after your 1000 year kingdom) then we enter a new
    Heaven and earth. Then the eternal land covenant cant be eternal. Right?

    So after that reality hits, it may be said that while Israel was in their given position they would have
    possession of the land. Well it was taken from them and given to others. Their house was left desolate
    which terminated their possession of the land.....havnt you read the old testament that they wouldnt
    be plucked up again? Or thrown down?

    Well they certainly were plucked up and thrown down. So it may be time to see things spiritually
    as was always intended. Jesus is sitting on Davids throne right now. And Jacobs deliverer already
    came to take away their sins.
    Sweetness likes this.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    I kneel before Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

    Remember this verse:


    9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

    I agree, the 144 thousand are of the tribes of Israel, the 12 gates are the names of the 12 tribes, there is a significant reason why this is so....

    Almighty Yahvah God is Jealous for his people, but once again remember that not every claiming to be a Jew is a Jew.

    So receive everyone as your Brother and Sister, we all that accept are saved by the same grace and Lamb, we are all of Almighty Yahvah God and our Lord is Yahshua some just realise this later than others.
    Abiding likes this.

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avinu View Post
    EG my friend, you're wasting your proverbial breath. Some of these people on here just choose to ignore the clear message of scripture of YHVH's covenant with Israel. For whatever reason they are willfully blind to it. They ignore all endtime prophecy about Israel, not to mention that the New Jerusalem has the name of the 12 tribes of Israel on it, instead of the name of there church. You would have a better result preaching this to a wall.
    What they don't realise is their speaking against YHVH's covenant with Israel, and it will bring judgement on their head. They don't truly study the OT, therefore they don't have a clue as to what Israel really means to YHVH. They think with the mind of man, assuming Yah's mind must be the same.
    They don't know that when they speak against Israel this way, and they are when they are making declarations that YHVH is done with Israel, they are cursing Israel, and YHVH said "I will curse them who curse you."
    Any ways my friend, they don't have ears to hear, and so just wanted to say you're beating a dead horse. lol. It's unfortunate, but some must learn things the hard way.
    Hmmm.. who is talking against Israel? And what endtime prophecies would you be talking about?
    I understood Paul and what he meant about not boasting against the branches. But the cry from
    christian/zionists or any other group that cries out antisemitism is just old and a bore. It reminds
    me of how tv preachers yell dont touch Gods anointed.

    As far as willfully blind. Well first of all, you as myself and others have different interpretations
    of scripture especially the book of revelation. But does revelation have a thing to do with the
    political state of Israel?

    Should i say you are willfully blind? Tell me what kind of judgement am i bringing on my head?
    Show scripture please. And if im deaf and a dead horse....how did i get around to post this?
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    So does that mean you don't believe Old Testament saints like Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and Moses weren't born again and won't be a;;owed to see the kingdom of God?

    What does that have to do with what we are talking about? Why are you twisting things around and trying to make an earthly covenant be equal to a spiritual covenant?

    Where all children of Israel saved and born again just because they entered the promised land? Are all of them who are there today saved just because they are there? This falls under the same mistake they made. That yes there is a physical covenant, and yes the land belongs to them. but NO, Being their or them does not make you automatically saved.

    The kingdom of God is promised to all, Jew or Gentile, based on Faith in Christ, always has been, always will be. Abraham issac and Jacob were saved because they had faith. yet niether of them saw the promise of owning the land in which they are strangers come to fruition. So did God break his promise to them? or does his promise still stand?
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Deceased Abiding's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    I do stand with Israel.....but the political nation/state we call Israel?...well
    that depends on how they act. Just as id say about any other nation.
    There are plenty torah believing jews in the world who do not stand
    with them. And they have good reasons why.

    Oh my how will that work out when a jew wont stand with Israel(national)
    Is that like spiritual suicide? What kind of curse will they get?
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Maybe later ill start a thread on what i believe the Word says about all this.
    As i certainly believe the true jews started the church and have been
    grafted into their natural branch throughout church history. And that gentiles
    are also grafted in.

    And although i believe God has use for the nation of Israel and surely it
    will most likely play a large part in history. I dont believe that it fulfills
    OT prophecy as the dispensationalists see it.

    I do love true Israel. And havnt a problem at all with jews or any
    race for that matter. But i dont love imposters.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiding View Post
    This was fulfilled IN Christ. You think Paul was talking about dirt? You think all these prophecies and covenants
    were about LAND? And you think Abrahams decendants was only a reference to who? jews?
    Do I think?

    did you read it, or are you ignoring what you read.
    Gen 17: 7 I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations

    Who is it given to? His physical descendants. Not just jews, ALL ISREAL.


    for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your [g]descendants after you.

    How long is this covenant in effect? FOREVER
    Who is it given to? Isreal (no gentiles are included here)




    8 I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the LAND of your sojournings, ALL THE LAND OF CANAAN for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

    Again who? the physical descendants of abraham.

    what? DIRT, THE LAND OF CANAAN.

    For how long? FOREVER


    If this covenant over land is eternal. Im not saying it was about land, but you apparently think so. What is mount Zion? And what is Heavenly Jerusalem? Will the jews stay back with their eternal piece of dirt?
    Your talking future. when the peace of dirt you talking about is destroyed. Is the land still there today> If it is, the covenant God made with abraham still stands.


    You said eternal right? Im sure you not gona try to say later on God will do a switch on them are ya?
    No, GOD SAID ETERNAL. WHich means as long as that land excists, the covenant is in effect. Should th eland no longer be, then the covenant can no longer stand can it, for the land was destroyed, there is no land to give.


    Well of coarse He will and already has. The newcovenant has the real land Abraham was looking for. A city whos builder and maker is God. How many times and how long will there be this same error? Jesus talked about this understanding and corrected it. So did Paul.
    No, The new jerusalem is NOT HERE. the old one is. which means the COVENANT STILL STANDS.

    No, Jesus corrected them about the spiritual covenant, of which ALL people are and always has been privy too, based on faith in him. One never had to be a jew in order to be a part of this covenant. Are people not saved who were born before abraham? was noah lost because he was not privy to this covenant?

    To get through the gospel and new testament and book of Hebrews as well as several Old testament
    books you will eventually have to realize type and fulfillment. And what it is really all about.
    No. All I have to read is the book of romans, and revelations to see the one covenant still stands. Isreal is still the elect because of the promise God made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. which had nothing to do with Gentiles or anyone outside of abrahams family. Your trying to mix a spiritual promise given to all, with a physical promise given to Only a group of people.

    Ill go either way with eternal....first alot of times it doesnt mean forever as we think of it and also many times it is conditional.

    Possession (ownership) is not conditional, It is and was an "I WILL" covenant with no strings attached.

    the ability to live, breath and have God bless the land promised is conditional based on Lev 26. This still stands today.


    But if life on earth according to dispensationalists is at best limited (lets say till after your 1000 year kingdom) then we enter a new Heaven and earth. Then the eternal land covenant cant be eternal. Right?
    Funny, who will possess the new jerusalem? God destroys the old and makes new. Who lives on earth, and who lives in the new land of cannon?

    So after that reality hits, it may be said that while Israel was in their given position they would have possession of the land. Well it was taken from them and given to others. Their house was left desolate which terminated their possession of the land....
    Yes and this was told it owuld happen in lev 26. But it also says, when they repent, God will restor them to their land. Do we ignore this fact?


    .havnt you read the old testament that they wouldnt be plucked up again? Or thrown down?
    Yeah I have, and when they repent, and "ALL ISREAL" will be saved ( a mystery according to paul" they will never leave again. After God brings them out of the gentile nations where they have gone because of their sin, And God punished the gentile nations who did wrong to them, and restored them to their new land (gave life to their dead bones) I guess we ignore all this??

    Well they certainly were plucked up and thrown down. So it may be time to see things spiritually

    And they still are plucked and thrown down, But the OT says they will repent, and God will restore them. Paul tells us when, when the times of the gentiles have been concluded. and ALL Isreal is saved, because they repent. Why would paul separate Jew and Gentile in chapter 11 if there is no difference??

    as was always intended. Jesus is sitting on Davids throne right now. And Jacobs deliverer already came to take away their sins.
    yeah, but they have yet to repent. The times of the gentiles are still in effect. And ALL Isreal has not been saved yet.

    So sorry, I can not agree with you my friend.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Do I think?

    did you read it, or are you ignoring what you read.
    Gen 17: 7 I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations

    Who is it given to? His physical descendants. Not just jews, ALL ISREAL.


    for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your [g]descendants after you.

    How long is this covenant in effect? FOREVER
    Who is it given to? Isreal (no gentiles are included here)




    8 I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the LAND of your sojournings, ALL THE LAND OF CANAAN for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

    Again who? the physical descendants of abraham.

    what? DIRT, THE LAND OF CANAAN.

    For how long? FOREVER




    Your talking future. when the peace of dirt you talking about is destroyed. Is the land still there today> If it is, the covenant God made with abraham still stands.




    No, GOD SAID ETERNAL. WHich means as long as that land excists, the covenant is in effect. Should th eland no longer be, then the covenant can no longer stand can it, for the land was destroyed, there is no land to give.




    No, The new jerusalem is NOT HERE. the old one is. which means the COVENANT STILL STANDS.

    No, Jesus corrected them about the spiritual covenant, of which ALL people are and always has been privy too, based on faith in him. One never had to be a jew in order to be a part of this covenant. Are people not saved who were born before abraham? was noah lost because he was not privy to this covenant?



    No. All I have to read is the book of romans, and revelations to see the one covenant still stands. Isreal is still the elect because of the promise God made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. which had nothing to do with Gentiles or anyone outside of abrahams family. Your trying to mix a spiritual promise given to all, with a physical promise given to Only a group of people.



    Possession (ownership) is not conditional, It is and was an "I WILL" covenant with no strings attached.

    the ability to live, breath and have God bless the land promised is conditional based on Lev 26. This still stands today.




    Funny, who will possess the new jerusalem? God destroys the old and makes new. Who lives on earth, and who lives in the new land of cannon?



    Yes and this was told it owuld happen in lev 26. But it also says, when they repent, God will restor them to their land. Do we ignore this fact?




    Yeah I have, and when they repent, and "ALL ISREAL" will be saved ( a mystery according to paul" they will never leave again. After God brings them out of the gentile nations where they have gone because of their sin, And God punished the gentile nations who did wrong to them, and restored them to their new land (gave life to their dead bones) I guess we ignore all this??


    And they still are plucked and thrown down, But the OT says they will repent, and God will restore them. Paul tells us when, when the times of the gentiles have been concluded. and ALL Isreal is saved, because they repent. Why would paul separate Jew and Gentile in chapter 11 if there is no difference??



    yeah, but they have yet to repent. The times of the gentiles are still in effect. And ALL Isreal has not been saved yet.

    So sorry, I can not agree with you my friend.
    Well, the dead bones was a prophecy fulfilled. In Christ of coarse.
    Yes and all Israel will be saved...and have been throughout church history.
    The land thingy...yes thats where we disagree. Well i spose theres more than
    that. But it was nice that you called me friend.

    But there is only a new covenant...Hebrews makes that clear.
    And Jesus confirmed that covenant. But im to busy and lazy
    today to go there.
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Hmmm.. who is talking against Israel? And what endtime prophecies would you be talking about?
    I understood Paul and what he meant about not boasting against the branches. But the cry from
    christian/zionists or any other group that cries out antisemitism is just old and a bore. It reminds
    me of how tv preachers yell dont touch Gods anointed.

    As far as willfully blind. Well first of all, you as myself and others have different interpretations
    of scripture especially the book of revelation. But does revelation have a thing to do with the
    political state of Israel?

    Should i say you are willfully blind? Tell me what kind of judgement am i bringing on my head?
    Show scripture please. And if im deaf and a dead horse....how did i get around to post this?

    Do I detect a hint of guilt? If you're not one those of whom I was talking about, then why so defensive? Or as the saying goes, if the shoe fits, wear it.

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Yes, if you are a child of God, you will be, after this heaven and earth are destroyed. But that has nothing to do with physical canaan and Gods promises to the physical children of abraham issac and jacob



    A people, physical descendents of Abraham, Children of Issac and Jacob, (whose name was changed to isreal, thus the name given to his offspring)
    3. were the jews choosen by god because they would love him or because they would love themselfs and hang him on the cross?[/quote]

    Niether. Gods promise to abraham was an unconditional covenant. It can be found in genesis.

    7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

    What was the promise?

    I will establish my covenant

    I will be your god

    I will give you this land.

    Nothing said about what abraham must do, It was Gods covenant, unconditional.

    God is still the God if Isreal, and the land still belongs to them, they are not there because of sin, but that is a different subject.
    [/quote]
    Lets thinkabout it for a second here.
    1. Heb. states in chapthter 12 that this Zion and new jerusalem has come because you can't come to something that not here.
    2.Not at all for all are jews born of the heart and descendent of Christ
    3. where is the covenant made with abraham unconditinoal since the frist one need one to be cut in the flesh by man and follow the law of moses or get stoned
    4. Jesus christ is the covenant made by God to man by Jesus christ to fullfill God's promise to abraham as given by moses.
    5. How can I grian the land allready given by God by Jesus christ to man it's all ready mine by the act of the Son of God.
    to say the lest your points are full of holes.

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avinu View Post
    Do I detect a hint of guilt? If you're not one those of whom I was talking about, then why so defensive? Or as the saying goes, if the shoe fits, wear it.
    Nope you dont detect any guilt here. Do I detect a hint of pomp?
    And i wasnt defensive. To say im bored of people using the terms
    you did with threats and judgements is just a fact.

    Remember this thread is mostly likely about the nation Israel.
    Which for alot of people isnt about any promises to the
    Fathers.

    If there is a different understanding of scripture and how these
    promises were fulfilled and will continue to be fulfilled.
    Let that be the discussion. Without your accusations and
    forbidden judgement of there sight or blindness, or that they
    are a this or that.

    This is a forum...correct?
    if what the bible says doesnt suit you, just start a thread and soon many will agree,
    this helps take the difficulty out of self deception alone

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    Default Re: Do you stand with Israel?

    John 8:58
    “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    John 8:56
    Your fatherAbrahamrejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

    Zechariah 8:23
    23 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”

    There is a lot of parts of scripture used in this post, lots of human reasoning going on taking off from those parts. But God is the bottom line. When gentiles would not follow Him, He picked Hebrews for special training and blessings. God created all people, loves His creation. But the Hebrews are special, we are grafted in, and we are to listen to the training God gave them in the OT, along with the NT. We have a bad history of how we have treated God’s chosen people for about 2,000 years, time we straightened up our act.
    Avinu likes this.

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