Visions & Dreams

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S

-StatenJM-

Guest
#1
A couple quick questions:

Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision?
Is there anything biblical that supports this?

Could it be that Satan is the one that appears to people in dreams/visions cloaked as God/Jesus?
If so, would Satan risk someone being "saved" by the message about Jesus for a chance that person may continue to listen to dreams/visions for their guidance (hence-fore Satan gets to lead more people away from the truth)
Is there biblical evidence for this as well?

If your answer to the first question is "no"? Then biblically can you explained what has changed between moses and the burning bush & moses and the ten commandments to a vision/encounter today?

Much thanks for your thoughtful well thought-out/investigated reply,
StatenJM
 
M

mori

Guest
#2
Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision?
Is there anything biblical that supports this?
Depending on how you define the last days, clearly:

In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
To me the amillennialist reading is the most compelling, i.e. all days after Christ are the last days, so we should expect dreams and visions.

Personally, though, I've never heard a report that has been compelling. Occasionally, someone will type up a very long, detailed description of their dream or vision and it's clear he's embellishing or serving his own ego or doctrinal stance. The worst example I know was a young man whom God had told he needed to marry a particularly attractive woman.

If your answer to the first question is "no"? Then biblically can you explained what has changed between moses and the burning bush & moses and the ten commandments to a vision/encounter today?
While the question is quick, the answer almost certainly is not. Unfortunately, a lot has been written about the apparent cessation of the charismata, mostly concerning healing, speaking in tongues, and prophecy. The same arguments apply here.

The main line of reasoning is that, with the completion of the canon, these things are no longer necessary for salvation and have been withdrawn. As Jesus said to the rich man in Hades, "if they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." (Of course, this didn't stop Jesus from doing precisely that, so the argument isn't airtight.)

There are, on the other hand, entire denominations that focus on these sorts of manifestations and believe visitations, even outside of dreams, still occur. The answers you get will depend, largely, on the practice of the denomination of the person you're asking.
 
S

-StatenJM-

Guest
#3
I'm not saying people won't/don't have vision I am asking about vision that include God/Jesus saying this or that. Mainly because if there is a biblical definative laid out saying that God/Jesus does not appear in dreams/visions then then following would have seen a deceitful Satan and not God/Jesus:

Joseph Smith said God told them a message and starts the Mormon church.
Ellen G. White said God told him/her a message and starts the Seventh Day Adventist church.
Mary Eddy Baker said God told him/her a message and starts the Christian Scientist church.
Sun Myung Moon said God told him/her a message and starts the Unification church.
Witness Lee/Watchman Nee said God told him/her a message and starts the Local Church.
Mike Bickle said God told him/her a message and start the International House of Prayer.

And then you also have Mohammed who also had a vision (though I believe it was of an angel so it doesn't quite fit with what I am questioning)...
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#4
I believe that God does appear in dreams in the form of someone we relate to. The catch here, is to remember these dreams, and to remember what is said. Many times what is said is more important than what we see. The human soul never sleeps.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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#5
The experience of true grace comes to us when the body is awake or else on the point of falling asleep, while in fervent remembrance of God we are welded to His love. But the illusion of grace comes to us, as I have said, when we fall into a light sleep while our remembrance of God is half- hearted. True grace, since its source is God, gladdens us consciously and impels us towards love with great rapture of soul. The illusion of grace, on the other hand, tends to shake the soul with the winds of deceit; for when the intellect is strong in the remembrance of God, the devil tries to rob it of its experience of spiritual perception by taking advantage of the body's need for sleep. If the intellect at that time is remembering the Lord Jesus attentively, it easily destroys the enemy's seductive sweetness and advances joyfully to do battle with him, armed not only with grace but also with a second weapon, the confidence gained from its own experience.

+St. Diadochos of Photiki+
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#6
A couple quick questions:

Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision?
Is there anything biblical that supports this?


Could it be that Satan is the one that appears to people in dreams/visions cloaked as God/Jesus?
If so, would Satan risk someone being "saved" by the message about Jesus for a chance that person may continue to listen to dreams/visions for their guidance (hence-fore Satan gets to lead more people away from the truth)
Is there biblical evidence for this as well?

If your answer to the first question is "no"? Then biblically can you explained what has changed between moses and the burning bush & moses and the ten commandments to a vision/encounter today?

Much thanks for your thoughtful well thought-out/investigated reply,
StatenJM

Numerous OT & NT accounts show that God appears to people while they are in an altered state of mind.

Numbers 12.4 - 9 informs the reader that Yahweh appears to mankind and the prophets in both a dream state and non-dream state...as exemplified by Aaron and Miriam seeing the 'form' of Yahweh in addition to the prophet Moses.

We must remember that God appeared in human form in the OT, not only in the above example but all the way through the OT. That is why many Jews recognized Jesus as God in the flesh when He came. The Jews that did not turn, and the remnant still remaining to this very day, simply do not know their scriptures very well.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#7
I'm not saying people won't/don't have vision I am asking about vision that include God/Jesus saying this or that. Mainly because if there is a biblical definative laid out saying that God/Jesus does not appear in dreams/visions then then following would have seen a deceitful Satan and not God/Jesus:

Joseph Smith said God told them a message and starts the Mormon church.
Ellen G. White said God told him/her a message and starts the Seventh Day Adventist church.
Mary Eddy Baker said God told him/her a message and starts the Christian Scientist church.
Sun Myung Moon said God told him/her a message and starts the Unification church.
Witness Lee/Watchman Nee said God told him/her a message and starts the Local Church.
Mike Bickle said God told him/her a message and start the International House of Prayer.

And then you also have Mohammed who also had a vision (though I believe it was of an angel so it doesn't quite fit with what I am questioning)...
though there are false dreams and visions does not of necessity negate those that are bona fide even as there were false and true ones in the OT. I am still searching scripture
that supports the notion that such ceased.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#8
A couple quick questions:

Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision? Yes, all the time
Is there anything biblical that supports this? That He did it in days past, OT and NT and He changes not.
Could it be that Satan is the one that appears to people in dreams/visions cloaked as God/Jesus?He could only do that God's permisson and God will not allow Himself to be misrepresented. Remember Dreams are how God talks to us. If and I do say IF...God allowed a dream in which satan was masquerading as Christ, it would be so that you could be able to see that you are being deceived ...as in you are following what you THINK is Christ, but it is not.
If so, would Satan risk someone being "saved" by the message about Jesus for a chance that person may continue to listen to dreams/visions for their guidance (hence-fore Satan gets to lead more people away from the truth)
Is there biblical evidence for this as well God created us to dream so that HE could give us messages (Job 33:14-18) And, although He does allow Satan to mess with our dreams on occasion, He does that so that WE can see what Satan's plans for us are so that we can do the warfare necessary to put an end to his (Satan's) plans.

If your answer to the first question is "no"? Then biblically can you explained what has changed between moses and the burning bush & moses and the ten commandments to a vision/encounter today? Nothing has changed. God still uses the same methods of communication He has always used. Sad, isnt' it ...that no one today is able to experience the whole burning bush thing because we lack true holiness? Just a thought~~~
Maggie


 
A

Abiding

Guest
#9
A couple quick questions:

Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision? Yes, all the time


No He doesnt appear all the time. Quite rare. Big events
1Peter 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:


Is there anything biblical that supports this? That He did it in days past, OT and NT and He changes not.
Could it be that Satan is the one that appears to people in dreams/visions cloaked as God/Jesus?He could only do that God's permisson and God will not allow Himself to be misrepresented. Remember Dreams are how God talks to us. If and I do say IF...God allowed a dream in which satan was masquerading as Christ, it would be so that you could be able to see that you are being deceived ...as in you are following what you THINK is Christ, but it is not.



Yes with Gods permission and here is just one of many examples why: Deut 13:1-31If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul

If so, would Satan risk someone being "saved" by the message about Jesus for a chance that person may continue to listen to dreams/visions for their guidance (hence-fore Satan gets to lead more people away from the truth)



Happens all the time..there are many jesus's, opra even has one



Is there biblical evidence for this as well God created us to dream so that HE could give us messages (Job 33:14-18) And, although He does allow Satan to mess with our dreams on occasion, He does that so that WE can see what Satan's plans for us are so that we can do the warfare necessary to put an end to his (Satan's) plans.




biblical dreams and visions are NOT talking about your rem period. Show me one verse where God showed
anyone satans plans. Where do you come up with this? tell them i already know




If your answer to the first question is "no"? Then biblically can you explained what has changed between moses and the burning bush & moses and the ten commandments to a vision/encounter today? Nothing has changed. God still uses the same methods of communication He has always used. Sad, isnt' it ...that no one today is able to experience the whole burning bush thing because we lack true holiness? Just a thought~~~




Oh thats a convincing story. God doesnt change, what a worn out verse. Are you saying that we all
are Moses? burning bush thing? because we lack holiness? did you get this out of a paperback or make it
yourself. the whole thing was unbiblical.
Maggie

Ill say again if you get a dream or vision. Youl either understand it or you will later. Pray
​Pray for wisdom. And youl be safe.


................
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#10
The experience of true grace comes to us when the body is awake or else on the point of falling asleep, while in fervent remembrance of God we are welded to His love. But the illusion of grace comes to us, as I have said, when we fall into a light sleep while our remembrance of God is half- hearted. True grace, since its source is God, gladdens us consciously and impels us towards love with great rapture of soul. The illusion of grace, on the other hand, tends to shake the soul with the winds of deceit; for when the intellect is strong in the remembrance of God, the devil tries to rob it of its experience of spiritual perception by taking advantage of the body's need for sleep. If the intellect at that time is remembering the Lord Jesus attentively, it easily destroys the enemy's seductive sweetness and advances joyfully to do battle with him, armed not only with grace but also with a second weapon, the confidence gained from its own experience.

+St. Diadochos of Photiki+
Job 33:14 KJV - For God speaketh once, yea twice, [yet man] perceiveth it not.
Job 33:15 KJV - In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

Dan 8:18 KJV - Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

Dan 10:9 KJV - Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#11
Abidng: "ll say again if you get a dream or vision. Youl either understand it or you will later. Pray
​Pray for wisdom. And youl be safe.


Sometimes a person had a dream in the Bible and did NOT understand it until another PERSON came and gave an interpretation. Nothing has changed. God gives the interpretation...and He often gives it to those of us that have sought Him out for the Gift of interpretation for the Purpose of helping dreamers understand their dreams and what He is showing them. Some times it is a call to pray for wisdom, sometimes strategy or courage or intimacy with Him. Only the context of the dream can reveal which.
Maggie
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
Abidng: "ll say again if you get a dream or vision. Youl either understand it or you will later. Pray
​Pray for wisdom. And youl be safe.


Sometimes a person had a dream in the Bible and did NOT understand it until another PERSON came and gave an interpretation. Nothing has changed. God gives the interpretation...and He often gives it to those of us that have sought Him out for the Gift of interpretation for the Purpose of helping dreamers understand their dreams and what He is showing them. Some times it is a call to pray for wisdom, sometimes strategy or courage or intimacy with Him. Only the context of the dream can reveal which.
Maggie
Look at the pattern, God sent dreams to unbelievers then sent His man to interpret.
And this was in no way a usual pattern or something common. They were rare and a BIG deal.
Can you find a Man of God getting a dream then having an unbeliever interpret it? Or even
another believer?
Can you find any NT instruction for dream interpreters?

Oh come on. Show proof God gives "to those of us that have sought Him out for the Gift of interpretation"

Besides you didnt seek Him out you sought out peoples teaching thats not from scripture. Gifts are not learned, crafts are.
Its not in the bible Maggie because it isnt from God. If dream interpretation was a gift it would
be listed in 1 Cor 12. And it ISNT.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#13
Nothing has changed. God still uses the same methods of communication He has always used. Sad, isnt' it ...that no one today is able to experience the whole burning bush thing because we lack true holiness? Just a thought~~~
Maggie
no one today is able to experience the whole burning bush thing because WE ARE NOT MOSES???



hello Maggie! hello! ^ see that? up above? ^ A BIBLE....read it.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#14
...Nothing has changed. God still uses the same methods of communication He has always used. Sad, isnt' it ...that no one today is able to experience the whole burning bush thing because we lack true holiness? Just a thought~~~Maggie
So while working up "true holiness" we should prepare for continuing revelation and perhaps even new scripture?

Sounds familiar....hmmm....

 
T

Trax

Guest
#15
I'm not saying people won't/don't have vision I am asking about vision that include God/Jesus saying this or that. Mainly because if there is a biblical definative laid out saying that God/Jesus does not appear in dreams/visions then then following would have seen a deceitful Satan and not God/Jesus:

Joseph Smith said God told them a message and starts the Mormon church.
Ellen G. White said God told him/her a message and starts the Seventh Day Adventist church.
Mary Eddy Baker said God told him/her a message and starts the Christian Scientist church.
Sun Myung Moon said God told him/her a message and starts the Unification church.
Witness Lee/Watchman Nee said God told him/her a message and starts the Local Church.
Mike Bickle said God told him/her a message and start the International House of Prayer.

And then you also have Mohammed who also had a vision (though I believe it was of an angel so it doesn't quite fit with what I am questioning)...
We have the KJV Bible. That's why dreams/visions aren't needed. And if anyone hears/sees/dreams anything that
they feel God is telling them, it will line up with the Bible, or it wont be from God. Those people mention,
the ones who started a new religion, had the same message, God's written word is corrupt and this is the
'real" truth. Well, that is where they messed up. To even have that mentality, shows they weren't faith
to God in the first place, so why would God give them revelations at all? And where these people REALLY
messed up is, they failed to take into account, that everyone who falls into their false religion, the
person who started the religion, will have to answer for eveyone person that got decieved. That means,
their eternal torment is getting worse with each convert. Joseph Smith, Mary Baker, Mohammed are
really racking up the torment.
 
C

craftycat

Guest
#16
A couple quick questions:

Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision?
Is there anything biblical that supports this?

Could it be that Satan is the one that appears to people in dreams/visions cloaked as God/Jesus?
If so, would Satan risk someone being "saved" by the message about Jesus for a chance that person may continue to listen to dreams/visions for their guidance (hence-fore Satan gets to lead more people away from the truth)
Is there biblical evidence for this as well?

If your answer to the first question is "no"? Then biblically can you explained what has changed between moses and the burning bush & moses and the ten commandments to a vision/encounter today?

Much thanks for your thoughtful well thought-out/investigated reply,
StatenJM
There is a lot of Biblical references to dreams and visions.....I will give you direct quotes rather than water the Bible down by my thinking, as mans thoughts are different to Gods thoughts.

Acts 9:10 .......The Lord spoke to him in a vision, calling, "Ananias!".....
Acts 9:17........"Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road, has sent me ......
Acts 10: 1-7 A roman army officer named Cornelius, who was captain of the Italian Regiment, a devout, God-fearing man............ One afternoon about three o'clock he had a vision in which he saw an angel of God...........
Acts 10:30 ........Suddenly a man in dazzling clothes was standing in front of me.........

Acts 11:5-6 ......while I was praying I went into a trance and saw a vision.....................

There are many references to this in the Bible.

Hmmm In reference to can it be Satan.....the Bible teaches us a tree is known by its fruit....therefore I would beg to ask if it be good or bad fruit.... Also the Bible talks about this in Mark 3: 22 - 28 - How can Satan cast out Satan.....If Satan is divided and fights against himself, how can he stand? He would never survive.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#17
Trax, we have the Bible, not just the KJV Bible.
 

WordGaurdian

Senior Member
May 1, 2011
473
8
0
#18
A couple quick questions:

Does God/Jesus ever appear to someone in a dream/vision?
Is there anything biblical that supports this?
Yes He does.He appeared to me once so far.. Probably the most evident and well known Biblical example of this is Paul on the road to Damascus. But one can also go to Acts 10 where God talks to Peter. In fact it is quite often mentioned.


Could it be that Satan is the one that appears to people in dreams/visions cloaked as God/Jesus?
If so, would Satan risk someone being "saved" by the message about Jesus for a chance that person may continue to listen to dreams/visions for their guidance (hence-fore Satan gets to lead more people away from the truth)
Is there biblical evidence for this as well?
Again yes. It could happen, as Jesus Himself said that satan will appear as an angel of Light. But He also said how can we differentiate between those of satan and those of His house. Which is that you shall know them by their fruit.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#19
Trax, we have the Bible, not just the KJV Bible.
For people who speak English, you better be using the KJV.
Otherwise, you just eating food with artificial flavoring.
 
Z

zaoman32

Guest
#20
For people who speak English, you better be using the KJV.
Otherwise, you just eating food with artificial flavoring.
Is that in the bible anywhere?