Hebrews 12: the Fath of the Saints!

cfultz3 · May 18, 2012

I will use the Textus Receptus for translating. Comments and suggestions are most welcome. This study is not for or against any particular opinion of theology, but is, in all possibilities, meant for a study of verb tense so that we all could learn more about God's written word. Keeping this in mind, I am asking that this does not become a thread for debate. I do ask that if you are to comment that you stay within the same chapter and comment on one verse at a time so that we can learn more easily. Thank you.

Again, you can copy and paste this study into E-Sword for easier comparing the Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge, which is located at the bottom.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:1 For which reason (chapter 11), seeing that we are having so great a cloud (throng) of witnesses encircling around us, having put away every weight (burden, encumbrance) and that thwarting (preventing, opposing) sin (offense) from ourselves (MV), we, through constancy, could run the race (of a contest) being set before us.[/FONT]

Heb 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us,and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Verbs:

are having (PAP) = it is the present in process. If those who were spoken about in chapter 11 are being spectators of us, then without much deductive reasoning, they must be in Heaven and not in spiritual sleep.

having put away (2AMP) = a snapshot of a past verb in action having happened by the starter of the verb which has consequences to it. The consequence, having first laid aside all those things which weight us down and that thwarting sin, is that we then can run the race consistently.

could run (PAS) = the possibility of us performing a present action. In order for us to run that race, we are to have laid aside our weights and that sin which we most fall prey to.

being set (PNP) = it is the present in process either caused by ourselves or we are the receivers of the verb. From understanding of Scripture, it would be God who sets the path of righteousness, and it is the Spirit who leads us on that path.

from ourselves (MV) = the middle voice tells us that the actor of the verb is also the receier of the verb. If we initiated 'having put away', then we also receive the end result, and that is: being without the weights and beseeching sin. In Scripture, we are told that the Holy Spirit is our Guide and Helper. It is towards Him we are to look to so that we can, through His guidance and help, avoid that sin which does not seem to want to go away.

Treasure of Scriptural Knowledge:

seeing: Heb_11:2-38
a cloud: Isa_60:8; Eze_38:9, Eze_38:16
witnesses: Luk_16:28; Joh_3:32, Joh_4:39, Joh_4:44; 1Pe_5:12; Rev_22:16
let us lay: Mat_10:37-38; Luk_8:14, Luk_9:59-62, Luk_12:15, Luk_14:26-33, Luk_18:22-25, Luk_21:34; Rom_13:11-14; 2Co_7:1; Eph_4:22-24; Col_3:5-8; 1Ti_6:9-10; 2Ti_2:4; 1Pe_2:1, 1Pe_4:2; 1Jo_2:15-16
and the sin: Heb_10:35-39; Psa_18:23
and let us: 1Co_9:24-27; Gal_5:7; Phi_2:16, Phi_3:10-14; 2Ti_4:7
with patience: Heb_6:15, Heb_10:36; Mat_10:22, Mat_24:13; Luk_8:15; Rom_2:7, Rom_5:3-5, Rom_8:24-25, Rom_12:12; Jam_1:3, Jam_5:7-11; 2Pe_1:6; Rev_1:9, Rev_3:10, Rev_13:10

GreenNnice · May 18, 2012

Heb 12:1τοιγαρουνG5105 PRT - (for which reason (chapter 11)) καιG2532 CONJ - (also) ημειςG1473 P-1NP - (seeing thatwe) τοσουτονG5118 D-ASN - (so great) εχοντεςG2192 V-PAP-NPM - (are having) περικειμενονG4029 V-PNP-ASN -(encircling around) ημινG1473 P-1DP - (us) νεφοςG3509 N-ASN - (a cloud(throng)) μαρτυρωνG3144 N-GPM - (of witnesses) ογκονG3591 N-ASM - (weight (burden, encumbrance)) αποθεμενοιG659 V-2AMP-NPM - (having put away from ourselves (MV)) πανταG3956 A-ASM - (every) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) τηνευπεριστατονG2139 A-ASF - (that thwarting (preventing, opposing)) αμαρτιανG266 N-ASF - (sin (offense)) διG1223 PREP - (through (channel of an act)) υπομονηςG5281 N-GSF - (constancy) τρεχωμενG5143 V-PAS-1P - (we could run) τονG3588T-ASM - (the + race) προκειμενονG4295 V-PNP-ASM - (being set before) ημινG1473 P-1DP - (us) αγωναG73 N-ASM - (race(of a contest))

Heb 12:1 For which reason (chapter 11),seeing that we are having so great a cloud (throng) of witnesses encircling around us, having put away every weight (burden, encumbrance) and that thwarting (preventing, opposing) sin (offense) from ourselves (MV),we, through constancy, could run the race (of a contest) being set before us.
________________________
The reason for our faith (in this verse) is the number of witnesses mentioned in chapter 11, many saints, including Abraham and Moses mentioned, all true to the faith of Christ, having already run the race (earthly life) and WON , yes, they are NOT dead, they are in The air, in SPIRIT form, ariund us, this is a great staunchion of support (reasoning) to put off our burdens and encumberances in our life and staving off sin from our person which will not stay IF we stay patient in running the race that God has for us.

This verse tells us that we can keep sin from damaging us by focusing on Him and His ways. Born of God, we desire and receive the Holy Spirit and after that great change a lot of great faith events that bless us and glorify Christ will happen. It's a contest tooo, it's not just some little simething run, 'it' is competitive and in competition there is battle. People can think, if they want, that they can just run , but, no, it a race, and, their is an enemy(s) in this contest race that want to beat you and not just that, these racers want to DESTROY you too. Hunger Games anyone? LOL, these enemies' tact and tactics will make that way of dying in a contest look like child's play

cfultz3 · May 19, 2012

GreenNnice said:

Heb 12:1τοιγαρουνG5105 PRT - (for which reason (chapter 11)) καιG2532 CONJ - (also) ημειςG1473 P-1NP - (seeing thatwe) τοσουτονG5118 D-ASN - (so great) εχοντεςG2192 V-PAP-NPM - (are having) περικειμενονG4029 V-PNP-ASN -(encircling around) ημινG1473 P-1DP - (us) νεφοςG3509 N-ASN - (a cloud(throng)) μαρτυρωνG3144 N-GPM - (of witnesses) ογκονG3591 N-ASM - (weight (burden, encumbrance)) αποθεμενοιG659 V-2AMP-NPM - (having put away from ourselves (MV)) πανταG3956 A-ASM - (every) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) τηνευπεριστατονG2139 A-ASF - (that thwarting (preventing, opposing)) αμαρτιανG266 N-ASF - (sin (offense)) διG1223 PREP - (through (channel of an act)) υπομονηςG5281 N-GSF - (constancy) τρεχωμενG5143 V-PAS-1P - (we could run) τονG3588T-ASM - (the + race) προκειμενονG4295 V-PNP-ASM - (being set before) ημινG1473 P-1DP - (us) αγωναG73 N-ASM - (race(of a contest))

Heb 12:1 For which reason (chapter 11),seeing that we are having so great a cloud (throng) of witnesses encircling around us, having put away every weight (burden, encumbrance) and that thwarting (preventing, opposing) sin (offense) from ourselves (MV),we, through constancy, could run the race (of a contest) being set before us.
________________________
The reason for our faith (in this verse) is the number of witnesses mentioned in chapter 11, many saints, including Abraham and Moses mentioned, all true to the faith of Christ, having already run the race (earthly life) and WON , yes, they are NOT dead, they are in The air, in SPIRIT form, ariund us, this is a great staunchion of support (reasoning) to put off our burdens and encumberances in our life and staving off sin from our person which will not stay IF we stay patient in running the race that God has for us.

This verse tells us that we can keep sin from damaging us by focusing on Him and His ways. Born of God, we desire and receive the Holy Spirit and after that great change a lot of great faith events that bless us and glorify Christ will happen. It's a contest tooo, it's not just some little simething run, 'it' is competitive and in competition there is battle. People can think, if they want, that they can just run , but, no, it a race, and, their is an enemy(s) in this contest race that want to beat you and not just that, these racers want to DESTROY you too. Hunger Games anyone? LOL, these enemies' tact and tactics will make that way of dying in a contest look like child's play

I logged on just to say, WOW!! Very real stuff you said, this is reality, not something phanthomed. It is for our soul's eternal destination we are running a race. This race is as real as you and I. Stay on course brothers and sisters, it will soon be over and you too can be a witness of your fellowservants.

cfultz3 · May 19, 2012

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:2 fixationly looking to the faith's (belief) Forerunner (one who takes the lead, and thus, affords an example) and Finisher, Jesus. Who, instead of the joy being set before Him, not only underwent a cross, having despised the disgrace, but also set down at the right hand of the throne of God.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 - fixationly looking (PAP) =the active present performed by the subject. Note that the word for 'looking' means more then just looking at something. It means '[FONT=Georgia, serif]to turn the eyes away from other things and fix them on something[/FONT]'. What that means to us is that we are to take our eyes off from those things which weights us down and that all encompassing sin, and instead, fix our eyes upon Him as our example of how to win the race and avoid all those things which are trying to cause us to lose the race. It is indeed a spiritual battle, just fix your eyes upon Him and surely, you will have finished the race.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It was Jesus who said, "Come and follow behind me." And here, we have what He means, "I, having finished the race and now having come back to lead you on that same course, am in the front of you, just fix your eyes on me and I will lead you to the finish line." This reminds me of the study of Psalms 23 we did. The Sheperd in front with His staff and rod leading His herd to that green pasture awaiting those who finish the race. And along the way, we pick up a few wreaths. How many have you collected?[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 – being set before (PNP) = the active present, either passive or active (in this case, passive). Look at what the Word gave up so that He could have been our Forerunner. What sort of love God must have had for us that He would have given up all that which was being set before Him. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3 – underwent (AAI) = a snapshot of a past action perform by the subject with no thought given to time, emphasize is on the action. Instead of undergoing those things which were being present before Him, He nonetheless underwent a brutal death all in the name of fulfilling God the Father's will as concerning His salvational plan. Understand that the Word chose to be our Forerunner over the joy which were being presented to Him. Is this not the sort of love we are to display, the love of God, choosing the needs of others over the pleasures afforded one?[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]4 – having dispised (AAP) = a snapshot of a past verb in action. Jesus said, as concerning His crucifixion,“If at all possible, take this cup from me. But not my will, but your will.“ (paraphased). Again, to exphasize the great esteem (agape) God has towards us, the Word chose to suffer instead of remaining in His then present joy.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]5 – set down (AAI) = a snapshot of a past action perform by the subject with no thought given to time, emphasize is on the action. Our Forerunner has set down from His race, and as He promised to those who shall finish the race, let us all strife to hear this one day, “Come and set down at my right hand. A job well done my true and faithful servant.“ [/FONT]

GreenNnice · May 20, 2012

Cfultz: It was Jesus who said, "Come and follow behind me." And here, we have what He means, "I, having finished the race and now having come back to lead you on that same course, am in the front of you, just fix your eyes on me and I will lead you to the finish line." This reminds me of the study of Psalms 23 we did. The Sheperd in front with His staff and rod leading His herd to that green pasture awaiting those who finish the race. And along the way, we pick up a few wreaths. How many have you collected?
=========/
Brilliant analogy ! Exceptional thought ! ! His leading us, yes, He is, always, trying, as we will follow, He shows us that the finish line is,a great place of blessed eternal rest , the Finisher of our faith, is there, staff in hand!!! Profound !!!!

Cee, this verse, too, stepping back further, is a great example of God as not just Creator, but as the Author, He writes the things out WE NEED TO DO to understand what is of Him to believe. We must believe in His holy , inspired Book (the Bible) to truly see how to BELIEVE, for God, Yahweh, our Father in Heaven, used ordinary humans, writers saying words, to author for Him what is to be believed for our faith. And, the process was excruciating by Jesus death, shame, on cross, but done with the knowing joy that all who then belieed in Him would be set free from sin and death

Our Author and Finisher of our faith WON the race, the book to KNOW Life! has been written, we only need to follow the path to our finish, with Him, waiting, open arms for us, there.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Crossfire · May 20, 2012

Great stuff guys! When we set our eyes upon the prize (Christ Himself) and are determined to stay on the path (abide in His presence), He then begins to guide our every step empowering us to overcome every obstacle that the enemy my put in our way.

cfultz3 · May 21, 2012

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:3[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For you* are to have considered[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (pondered upon)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif](MD)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the One having had [/FONT]underwent (endured)[FONT=Georgia, serif] such contradiction[/FONT](opposition/gainsaying)[FONT=Georgia, serif] under those sinners[/FONT] (offenders, those devoted to sin)[FONT=Georgia, serif] against Himself so that [/FONT](purpose)[FONT=Georgia, serif] you*, being weakened, would not have grown weary in your* souls [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif](lives)[/FONT](KJV: minds. But "mind" is G1271)[FONT=Georgia, serif].[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:3[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]considered (ADM) = [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]an order to have done a past verb with emphasize on the action and not time. The [/FONT]middle deponent is telling us that we are to have made ourselves take time out and to have pondered upon Jesus and His race. It is ordered in the that if we would have done so, then we would have our Example solidified in mind, having worked out any doubt of the Forerunner's abilities to coach us to the end. Jesus knows the track with all its ptifalls, and bumps, so listen to that coachful Voice edging you on towards the Light., never looking back, but constantly looking at your Forerunner.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]having had underwent (RAP) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] a perfect (never to be repeated again) past verb spoken in a movie manner to get one to see it happening in their mind. The writter is really trying to get the readers to really think about what Jesus, our Example, went through so that we can learn from His obedience. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]grown weary (2AAS) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] a snapshot of the possibility of a past verb which has consequences. The second aorist tells us that the action has consequences. But, if we go back a little more, we see 'so that'. Thus, the consequence is not on 'grown weary', but the purpose of having done another verb. We now see that having 'considered' has the purpose of not making us to grew weary. It is important that you take the time out and consider the race Jesus underwent and left for our example. He was tempted to the decree of crying tears of blood, but never gave in to sin, always looking at the Light set before Him. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]weakened (PPP) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] receiving the action of the active present. We are made weakened in our race by temptatio, the pitfalls of the race's tract. But, having pondered upon the One having already underwent this oppostion from those devoted to sin (the endicement they offer to sin), then we would know how to respond to enticement and continue on our race.[/FONT][/FONT]

cfultz3 · May 21, 2012

Crossfire said:

How true. He, indeed, knows that course and runs in front to clear that path set before us. And we as sheep, can stray, but we must be determined to finish the race, staying behind our Shepherd.

rainacorn · May 21, 2012

Not trying to start any trouble or anything, but I don't totally understand why such a breakdown is necessary. These verses are pretty straightforward and seem easily understood.

Perhaps I am missing something?

Thanks for clarification...if there is something to be gained from this method of study, I certainly don't want to miss out.

cfultz3 · May 21, 2012

rainacorn said:

Hello Rain Acorn,

A study of verbs tells a story within each verse. Take, for example, the word 'considered' in verse 3 and how its understanding can save a lot of trouble for those who are ruinning the race. Knowing that it is a command of a past action, we can understand that the implicaton of having done so, would lead us to a stronger willingness to follow our Forerunner, Jesus. Having pondered upon Him, when the time of temptation comes, we are more than able to fend off attacts. But, if one has not studied Jesus' race, one is lost on how to fend off attacks.

Hope this helps you to understand why it is important of knowing the purpose behind a verb. I guess that is the whole purpose of studying verbs: to know why it was performed, its impact, its place it has in believers life's, specifically, how it affects one's wak with the LORD.

cfultz3 · May 21, 2012

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] You*, struggling against[/FONT] (fighting against)[FONT=Georgia, serif] that sin[/FONT](offense)[FONT=Georgia, serif]([/FONT]thwarting[FONT=Georgia, serif] sin (v1))[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], have [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]not yet[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] resisted as far as blood[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif].[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 - I believe what is being said here is that they have not resisted that thrawting sin which beseech each to the point of having cried tears of blood, as Jesus did in His struggle to finish the race of faith. Although there was no possibility of Him having sinned, He still resisted sin so that He could be a merciful High Priest knowing our infirmities. To that note of resisting temptation thrown before us in our race, God, having underwent temptation as the Son, has made a way out of every temptation so that you can bear that enticement. This is why it is important to have pondered upon the example Jesus left for us to follow. By knowing what Jesus did in His race, we can then fight the good fight, finish the course set before us, and keep the faith, as did those in chapter 11.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Verbs:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]resisted (2AAI) = a snapshot of a past verb with empheses on the action which has consequences. The consequence of us having not resisted is simply, we will give in to that all encompassing sin from verse one. This resistance is so vividly accuired when we fixationaly look upon our Forerunner, never taking our eyes off from Him. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]struggling against (PNP) = the active present. There is a very real war going on for your soul and there will be times when you will have to be active in your race. Never looking down, but consistantly running forward, you will need to take action to avoid that pitfall ahead, just as a runner would. Never giving in to that negative thought, but having known how to overcome the hurdle through the example from Jesus, your obedience to the Coach will assure your path. Give heed to that Voice who only leads to the Light, obedience is the only plan of action you will need. To get back to the verb, you might be struggling against a sin, but do not give in, seeing that the one having suffered (2Aorist Active Particple) in the flesh HAS BEEN MADE TO CEASE (peRfect Passive Indicative) from sin. [/FONT]

GreenNnice · May 21, 2012

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds
_____(_____
This is excellent help to understand how to withstand people against you because of your belief in Christ.

Obey the One who took the best disgraceful,, shameful shots (insults, ridiculement) by sinners for you, for you will tire and go unconscious in your mind from same TREATMENT to you that will surely come to all willing to STAND and proclaim the name of Jesus. Not said in verse, but anytime our countenance is weakened it opens us up to sin.

GreenNnice · May 21, 2012

GreenNnice said:

______
For this word, 'obey,' I would go with 'think through' instead, representing 'consider.'

This is a great strength verse for understanding how to formulate a biblical basis for our faith, Jesus acts',,, for understanding how to endure the persecution of others.
_______

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, we need to resist sin with the blood of Christ, this will get us,striving not just paxt sin, as I see it but toward perfection, referencing Matthew 5:48

rainacorn · May 22, 2012

cfultz3 said:

Yes, yes...you think sin is bad. But what are you REALLY doing to stop it?

Practically nothing?

Correct.

lol my interpretation

It's about being seriously against sin instead of dreaming up justifications and keeping a foot in both worlds.

cfultz3 · May 22, 2012

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And you* had forgotten about this exhortation which reasons with you* as with sons, "O my son, you ought not have light regard[/FONT] (disesteem)[FONT=Georgia, serif] of the LORD's chastisement[/FONT](tutorage, nurturing)[FONT=Georgia, serif], nor, being admonished[/FONT] (convicted, corrected, told of a fault)[FONT=Georgia, serif], be made faint hearted[/FONT](dissolved, weakened, exhausted)[FONT=Georgia, serif] by Him. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif](verse 6 finishes quote)[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]forgotten (RPI) = [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]receiving an once completed past action. It is passive only in the sense that the word is in the middle voice. Basically, it means, 'you have caused yourselves to forget.' [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]reasons with (PNI) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] an action of the very present now with every indication of the future being brought about by the subject or object. It would seem that if the Holy Spirit is Wisdom which speaks to us (as per Proverbs), then it would be in the middle depodent. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]ought not have light regard (PAM) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] because of the qualifying negative attached to the imperative 'you are to have light regard', it becomes a suggestive command. It is an expectation of obligation on your part. As a child, it is an expected obligation that you do not disregard your parents' molding of you. In the same sence, we are under the same obligation with God. We are to let God mold us into the child He wants. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]nor be made faint hearted (PPM) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in continuation of the qualifying negative, 'nor' here is an abstracted qualifying negative. As it is an expected obligation of a child to not disesteem their parant's molding of them, it is also expected of a child to not grow tired of their parent's correction, knowing that the end result is a child properly raised. As it concerns Christians, being a proper child raised by God Himself. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]being admonished (PPP) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] receiving the action of the present in process. When we are in the process of being corrected as a child of God, it might seem unfair, as most children would think of the correction from their physical parent, but, in the end, it produces a most becoming child. Note also that it is not in the Present Active Indicative, which indicates that it is not an one time instance, but, as a child, we are to expect training in our upbringing until we move out (enter Heaven).[/FONT][/FONT]

cfultz3 · May 22, 2012

Is anyone learning anything from this study of verbs in Hebrew 12? Like:

What is the purpose of having studied the example left behind by our Forerunner as to how to run the race?
What is the prerequisites of starting the race? And what effect does that prerequisites have on us?
How far are we to struggle in our battle against that all beseeching sin of ours?

GreenNnice · May 23, 2012

cfultz3 said:

____________________

Cee, only stop IF the Lord leads

___________________________________________________________
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And you* had forgotten about this exhortation which reasons with you* as with sons, "O my son, you ought not have light regard[/FONT] (disesteem)[FONT=Georgia, serif] of the LORD's chastisement[/FONT](tutorage, nurturing)[FONT=Georgia, serif], nor, being admonished[/FONT] (convicted, corrected, told of a fault)[FONT=Georgia, serif], be made faint hearted[/FONT](dissolved, weakened, exhausted)[FONT=Georgia, serif] by Him. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif](verse 6 finishes quote)[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

This is speaking of ourselves being NOT convicted by God. Chastening is a punishment, but it is one done of moral corrective action, NEVER of guilt. The Satan makes you guilty people, so, don't feel badly when God exhorts you. He is dearly trying to help you as you are His (children), which is a sealed deal once you are born again of Him and sin is not you ANYMORE (1 John 3:6) , believing on Him (John 3:16), repenting, confessing, our sins (1 John 1:9) and, the Holy Spirit will then lead your life IF you receive Him. (Read Acts 1 and Acts 8 please) There will still be troubles and trials in your life make no mistake, for Satan is real until God takes Him away and he WILL attack those born of God, you need to call on the Spirit and not faint as that happens, for "GREATER is He who is in me than he who is in the world. "

God says too in Isaiah 40:31 that we will NOT faint when we WAIT ON HIM, not only that, we will fly, oh, YES!, praise God, we will be lifted up (not really, fly, fly, like a bird) and then we will run, run, run, like the wind, and we will walk like Forest Gump, back and forth, wherever God takes us (across america green a couple times walking? Maybe) .

Just go. Accept your rebuking, it will help you run and walk

Just obey, don't be forgetting His exhortations are for YOUR OWN GOOD, little children, and, big children

, for God knows best, He is afterall, our Father

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cfultz3 · May 23, 2012

Heb 12:6 Seeing that whom the Lord does love (agape = love of esteem) He does discipline (instruct, chastise), and does flog every son whom He does accept unto Himself (MD)(receive (G3844) + near (G3844)).

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Verbs:

does love, does discipline, does flog (PAI), does accept (PNI) = the very present and every indication of the future. With the present indicative, there is no doubt to be implied, but that it is an actual and factual statement. If you want to know if you are accepted as a son, then look no further than if you are disciplined and whipped by your Abba. If God has accepted you as a son, then through love, as with any parent, He will correct you.

The present indicative must be understood, God is now your Abba, you are now a His child, no matter your age. Count it all blessings when you are corrected, seeing that you are accepted as a chid of promise. This blessedness along should give you the willingness to stop (repent from) that which is causing the Lord to correct you so that you can move on in your relationship with God.

Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge verse 6:

whom: Deu_8:5;Psa_32:1-5, Psa_73:14-15, Psa_89:30-34, Psa_119:71, Psa_119:75; Pro_3:12, Pro_13:24; Isa_27:9; Jer_10:24; Jam_1:12, Jam_5:11; Rev_3:19
and does disciplines: Heb_12:7-8; 2Sa_7:14

GreenNnice · May 23, 2012

YG3844)))

Heb 12:6 Seeing that whom the Lord does love (agape = love of esteem) He does discipline (instruct, chastise),and does flog every son whom He does accept unto Himself (MD)(receive (G3844) + near (G3844)).

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
______(______)________
verses in scripture were written long ago, but they have very real meaning in the here and now....

Verse here doesn't say , 'God chastened' and 'God scourged' those He loved.....

It says.....God chastens (present tense) . God scourges. Now. Here, in our individual lives, God parents us. And, isn't that so true of parents. They discipline, IF following God in life, don't discipline their child(ren) out of anger, but they discipline out of love. They KNOW that continuance of said action will get their kid(s) in trouble IF that action continues. God Loves those whom accept Him as their Saviour and commit their life living to His ways, His direction, dying unto self and flesh and living with God in them, having been born again.

And, isn't it so interesting that when someone may be teasing us and we get angry and then that person startles us with, 'I wouldn't tease ya if I didn't love ya.'

So true. God is same way, those whom accepted Him and are going His (narrow way) home will experience treatment from.God that those not following God and not having God as Saviour do not experience. That may seem unfair, but God uses that 'For' word to.start this verse (and others) in this chapter, for what?

Emphasis and letting one know that their is, indeed,.a heavy weight of accountability for your faith in Him. You don't just believe, go to Heaven, live forever, 'course Satan will tell you it''s that easy but not God. God does not discipline those not His either this verse says. How good is it for children to be undisciplined, especially with your chosen parent, Satan, watching over you, as you can only serve ONE master , God or Satan.

So, will you accept God's Loving reprimanding, even scourging, which, again, is NOT to make us be guilty.Reality is that IF you to follow Him, the sacrifice for you is to follow ALL of Him, so to speak, for God will only have it that way, disciplining whom He loves, 'God disciplines His own.' Scripture is clear. But isn't it nice, He only does 'it'' because of how much He loves us, oh, how He loves us, He loves us, for we are His, nestled in His wings. Oh how He loves you. Oh how He loves me. Oh how He loves you and me.

Receive Him. It is your choice, you become elected by God forever to be His when you do, and , you live with Him sooooo blessed, beyond mere words to describe,, beyond any description, really, forvermore .

cfultz3 · May 23, 2012

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:7[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] If you* do undergo chastisement [/FONT](disciplinary correction)[FONT=Georgia, serif], then God is lead to deal with you* as with sons. For who is a son whom a father does [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]not [/FONT]discipline (instruct, chastise)[FONT=Georgia, serif]?[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:7[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]do undergo, does discipline (PAI) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] The choice is yours (active), either deny the correction of the Lord, or undergo (present) it, knowing that it is for your eternal benefit. As with a child with his physical parents, if he refuses their correction, he becomes hardened in his heart and rebels. The end result of such refusal is oftentimes seen in the devestation it brings, a road which no one wishes to be upon. So, as a good child, you are to respond to your Abba's correction, not putting it off as not being your fault, as being a societial fault. You and you alone are responsible for your deeds, not your parents, not society, but you must give account. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]lead to deal with (PPI) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] receiving action in the present now and with every indication of the future. If God is lead to deal with us as with sons when we undergo chastisement from the Spirit, then one is lead to ask, "How is God lead to deal with those who do not undergo the chastisement of the Spirit?" There are many instances in Scripture in which God's intent was changed based upon the receiving party's favorable reaction to His chastisement. It would be nice if someone would list a few. But getting back to this verb, if one is not undergoing the LORD's chastisement, then God is lead to deal with that individual with wrath. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]undergo:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Job_34:31-32[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_19:18[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_22:15[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_23:13-14[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_29:15[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_29:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Act_14:22[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]for who:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1Sa_2:29[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1Sa_2:34[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1Sa_3:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ki_1:6[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ki_2:24-25[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_13:24[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Pro_29:15[/FONT][/FONT]

Hebrews 12: the Fath of the Saints!

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