UNDERSTANDING COLOSSIANS 2:14 Keep all 10 Commandments by the grace of God!

LawofLove · May 18, 2012

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So meany today think this verse is talking about the 10 commandments. Lets take at look to see if this is so.

First lets look at the context of this verse starting with verse 11

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Now one must ask him self or her self is circumcision found in the 10 commandments?

Well you don't have to take my word for it just ask Paul him self! Pleas come with me to 1
cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and circumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters (NKJV bible)

So we see here that the ordinances here in col 2:14 is apart from the 10 commandments by Paul's own words. Ok so your saying whats your point?

Lets go a little deeper;

What then is Paul talking about here in col 2:14?

We find some of the same Language spoke of here from col 2:14 in Eph 2:15 lets take a look:

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

So next we need to understand what the "ordinances" are.

Well we already have a hint to what it is from Paul in the first part of this thread^^ we know its talking about in part the "Circumcision" or I should say that circumcision is put in the same boat from the Jews mindset. look at the context from verse 12;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

God made His covenants with Abraham and his descendants (Gen. 12:3; 22:18) And Moses also was teaching this see here in Lev;

Lev 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

The book of Gal also teaches us that Moses was given these "ordinances" where "appointed through angles and he wrote what was told on paper"

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now the interesting thing about this is most think that Moses wrote the 10 commandments but this is a over site if you believe Moses wrote them with his own hand or engraved them him self on the stones; because the bible it self says that God wrote them with his finger even after Moses broke the stone tablets God again wrote them meaning he did not want man writing it, lets look at what the bible says;

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

The bible gos on to say what Moses did with the "ordinances" that Moses wrote by the angles from that verse in Galatians lets take a look;

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

We should all understand that the 10 commandments where placed "inside" the ark of the covenant but the law that Moses wrote was on "the side" "not inside". God did not want to mix the two laws.

So getting back to what was said in Col 2:14 what was nailed to the cross it was the That is, the “handwriting.” “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness” (see on Rom. 10:4). Now that Christ has come, men are no longer under a schoolmaster (see on Gal. 3:25; Eph. 2:15).

The Spirit of God dos not have us keep the ceremonial laws any longer (Jew or gent)"that is if you don't want to" some Jews still keep them. Both are free from that but the Spirit dos have us keep the "moral law". The moral law is what should be on our heart.

That also includes the things talked about in verse 16 talking of the shadow of things to come food and drink or regarding a festival or new moon or sabbath days

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (KJV)

Now to further separate the 10 commandments from the ceremonial laws we must look at Lev chapter 23 in light of what Col 2:16-17 says;

The Lord had Moses and his people keep feasts to Him; in Lev 23:9-14 is the feasts of "Firstfruits" verses 15-22 we have the "Feast Of Weeks"; verses 23-25 Feast of Trumpets;
verses 26-32 "The Day of Atonement" verses 33-44 "The Feast of tabernacles"

Ok so you say whats your point here?

Notice verse 38

Lev 23:38 These festivals are in addition to the regular Sabbaths, and these offerings are in addition to your regular gifts, your offerings as fulfillment of vows, and your freewill offerings that you give to the LORD.) (GNB)

The NKJV and the NKJ use the word "besides" but this is the same as saying "addition" to if you read it from verse 37-38.

The Sabbath is different from all the other feasts and holy convocations (see verses 37, 38) in that it originated at creation (Gen. 2:1–3), whereas the annual feasts and “sabbaths” had their origin with the Jewish nation. The seventh-day Sabbath “was made for man” the word used here is "man" but means "mankind" (Mark 2:27), and hence is of obligation for all men forever; the annual feasts were made for the Jews and ceased to be of obligation when type met Antitype at the death of Christ (Col. 2:16, 17). The seventh-day Sabbath is incorporated in the law of God, the Ten Commandments, His constitution for this world. Because it was made before sin entered, it will remain after sin is no more (Isa. 66:22, 23). On the other hand, the annual Jewish feasts were of only temporal, local, ceremonial application, fitted to conditions in Palestine, and could not be made of worldwide application.

Wow amazing right? The lord is waiting to blessing you on the 7th day Sabbath if you will heed to his voice and follow him. God bless

Laodicea · May 20, 2012

Good post, Good info.

LawofLove · May 20, 2012

Laodicea said:

Now that I went back over this sorry for all the typos and bad grammar boy I knew I should of done all this in a word document lol

Spiritual_Plague · May 20, 2012

The definition you've given for "ordinances" is incomplete.

-The 10 commandments are referred to as statutes and ordinances in Deuteronomy 5:1

-The weekly Sabbath is referred to as a statute and ordinance in Ezekiel 20:19-21

-The 10 commandments are the ceremonial law are spoken of together and referred to as statues and ordinances in Leviticus 19:1-37

There is no such distinction that you are making between "ceremonial laws" and the 10 commandments...the 10 commandments are also referred to as ordinances.

Moving into the New Testament, Paul shows us in Romans 7 that the law has been abolished, and shows us that he's talking about the 10 commandments as well as the other ordinances.

Rom 7:6-7

6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." [fn]

That's why Paul could care less what you do on the Sabbath. Esteem every day alike....esteem on day above the other. Whatever the case, give thanks to God.

Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes [it] to the Lord; [fn] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe [it]. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

The 10 commandments with the rest of the ordinances were sent packing after the living example of the perfect righteousness of God came to Earth and met with us face to face and died on a cross.

Col 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

The handwriting of requirements wiped away were the ordinances including the 10 commandments. God has higher standards than that.

Righteousness doesn't come by the law.

loveme1 · May 20, 2012

Then Joshua called the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, 2And said unto them, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you: 3Ye have not left your brethren these many days unto this day, but have kept the charge of the commandment of the LORD your God. 4And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan. 5But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. 6So Joshua blessed them, and sent them away: and they went unto their tents.

loveme1 · May 20, 2012

We can see there is a difference between Moses Law and what Yahvah God commanded us do.

Moses Law was to cover the trespasses of the 10 Commandments before Yahshua the Messiah became our sin offering.

The Bible still mentions the Commandments of Yahvah God, but it is accompanied with the Faith of Yahshua the Messiah:

Revelation 14
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Yahshua the Messiah raised the bar of righteousness, he taught that we must be changed inwardly, by the Baptism of the Holy spirit, it is through this that we do not lust inwardly, times of old the Commandment was do not commit adultery, our righteousness and new Holy spirit convicts us for even thinking such trespass.

The Pharisees were putting on an act in front of men, but Yahvah God can not be deceived by us.

Yahshua the Messiah was bringing home to us all that do not think anything you do outwardly can hide your true intentions.

Remember the cleaning the cup on the outside, while being filthy inside.

39And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. 40Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? 41But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

42But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 43Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. 44Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

loveme1 · May 20, 2012

<< Leviticus 25 >>
King James Version
1And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying, 2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD. 3Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof; 4But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard. 5That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land. 6And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee, 7And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
8And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. 9Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. 10And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. 11A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. 12For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.

Red33 · May 20, 2012

loveme1 said:

You seem to love to keep the commandments given under the old covenant but do you have the same love to keep the commandments given under the new covenant? Give me an example of a commandment under the new covenant that you keep and how do you keep it? Can you explain the difference of the commandments under the old covenant vs the commandments under the new covenant? Do we just keep the two great commandments of loving God and our neighbor and in doing this the entire law is fulfilled in us?

You can give me the (10) commandments with no effort, but can you give me (10) commandments of the new covenant that the church has under grace? We have a commandment from our Lord JESUS Christ to go into all the world and preach the gospel and make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Do you practice and keep that commandment from the Lord as diligent as you keep the Sabbath? James said that those who are under the law, if they offend in only one point have broken the entire law. Does the believer under the new covenant of grace have that same principle applied to them when they fail to keep a single commandment or fail to love their brother who may be in need?

If we should repent whenever we sin in the flesh, should we also have the same repentance when we fail to keep any of the commandments? If I do not go out and preach the gospel to every creature, should I confess that as sin and repent to the Lord and go out and preach the gospel in all places everywhere? If you are going to keep the (10) commandments that were given under the old covenant then should you also keep the commandments under the new covenant and give the same reverence to the new as you do the old?

loveme1 · May 20, 2012

Red33 said:

Are you without understanding, that you can not see how the 10 Commandments cover everything that is expected from us?

We do not keep them to receive Salvation

We keep them because we received Salvation by grace.

We are given the Holy Spirit that takes delight in obedience to our Yahvah God.

We are made new with our gift of Salvation.

Set free from our death sentence.

Almighty Yahvah God sacrificed his son for my sin, Yahshua the Messiah suffered a painful death without sin.

If this act of love does not leave you desiring to please Almighty Yahvah God by obeying him by the Commandments he gave us that he states people that love him obey and keep.

Then what will?

I seek to do right in Yahvah God's sight not my own.

By his will I obey and love and desire for eternity.

I spent many years in an ignorant Rebellion.

I will not spend another day doing what he detests.

Yahshua the Messiah summarized the whole Law with Love thy Yahvah God, and Love thy neighbour.

Grace poured on me.

work does not bring Salvation.

Salvation brings obedience out of love and appreciation.

You can say nothing that will come between My Yahvah God and I.

Accuse me of whatever you will, for it is the Most High that knows my heart and soul and it is he whom I love with all my heart and soul.

The bond between My Yahvah God and I was was made whole by Yahshua the Messiah it is he who will testify for me, not you red...

So question not my understanding based on your view, for what profit is it that I answer your questions?

cookie39 · May 20, 2012

, The children of Israel was all on one accord and they chose the days all their people would work together. But the bible over and over and over again never mention God said what "" man's "" sixth day would be. God knew before hand that the whole world could not be on one accord for this matter.......... this is why every time the Sabbath is mentioned it say, " SIX DAYS" "NOT THE FIRST SIX DAYS" A MAN SHALL WORK. Never ever did God said that a man have to start working on the first day of the week and rest on the seventh day OF THE WEEK. you can start on the third day and it will be your ( individual) first day. In the New Testament...... it does not tell one gentile that the first day of the week is when they shall start working and the same days the Jews stop you have to stop too............. AND THERE IS NOT ONE SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE THAT SAY WE HAVE TO WORSHIP ON THE SABBATH, OR GATHER TOGETHER.......... Paul and the people met twice a week....... one was for to collect offerings for the poor, and the other was for prayer. and once they came together as the bible puts it ON THE LORD'S DAY, WHICH IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. so where in the New Testament does it say to the gentiles who became Christians that the day they ought to come together to do anything is a Saturday, or the Jews day Sabbath????????? yes, I do believe God still want us to rest seven days after we have worked six days......... BUT ISAIAH 58 TELLS US WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING ON THAT DAY... AND IT IS NOT SITTING IN A BUILDING ALL DAY........... Jesus also showed us what we should be doing........ '''' DOING SOMETHING FOR OTHERS''''
WOW, how many times did you hear their was worshiping every Sabbath in the bible, like really? do you not listen to Jesus when he showed us what the Sabbath was truly about............. it is not about a day to worship God, it is for man........EVERY DAY SHOULD BE A DAY TO WORSHIP GOD, EVERY DAY!! AND YOUR SABBATH IS SEVEN DAYS AFTER YOU HAVE WORKED SIX DAYS.............. NOT THE FIRST SIX DAYS OF THE WEEK....... Thank God for his Word.... and those who know how to read it as it is written.

cookie39 · May 20, 2012

My husband may start working on Wensday, that will make Tuesday his Sabbath. get-it? hope so.

Red33 · May 20, 2012

loveme1 said:

You have the freedom to answer nothing that you are asked. Those questions are not demands of any kind, more of an inquiry. You do not like to make a distinction between the old and new covenants and the commandments that we have with both. As a believer in JESUS Christ you are a member of the New Testament Church and not of Israel. Israel's heritage is of no matter for the church because we are members one of another, both Jew and Gentile, and we are in Christ. If you are in unbelief as a Jew, of any kind, then you are not a member of the church and the blood of Christ has not cleansed you from sin, same for the Gentile.

If you have been cleansed by the blood of Christ then you are a member of the church and a member of His body, flesh and bones. You must claim the new covenant with the blood of Christ and be rid of the old, because all things have become new in Christ. Your righteousness comes through faith in JESUS Christ and not in another or in the law or any of the commandments. You could keep the (10) commandments perfectly and still live in unbelief concerning JESUS Christ and Him crucified. Your hope is in the blood and in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. No one can go back and offer the same old sacrifices to be cleansed or for the remission of sins, for the Lamb has come and offered Himself, once and for all, without spot to God on our behalf.

The Holy Spirit is greater than the (10) commandments, for the Spirit will convict us of sin and also give us grace and truth through our Lord JESUS Christ. The law or keeping of the commandments could never do that so we must walk and be lead by the Spirit who will show us the way that JESUS Christ is going so that we can follow Him with the love of God being shed abroad in our heart by the Spirit. This is when the written word and that which we are commanded to obey by faith becomes alive in us and is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. The law reveals sin but the Spirit reveals the life of Christ.

loveme1 · May 20, 2012

Certainly not.

If you love Yahvah God with all your heart and soul you love Yahshua the Messiah.

One Yahvah God and one son Yahshua the Messiah.

Red33 · May 20, 2012

loveme1 said:

Many believe in God but not in the one whom God sent as JESUS Christ the Lord. It is most prevalent in the Jewish faith. Therefore many keep the commandments of God but reject Christ the Messiah with their own unbelief. I know of many Jews and children of Israel that are in unbelief but obey the commandments and honor the Torah and you probably do as well. I don't judge them but the word will judge them in the last days (Jn 12:48).

Jn 14:1
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

They could not believe that the Father was in the Son (Jn 10:38, 14:11). He came unto His own but they received Him not (Jn 1:11), nor the works that He did (Jn 10:38). They believed in YHWH but not Yeshua nor in His works that came from YHWH. You can put the word love in there and they would tell you that they love YHWH and one another and in the same breath reject the one whom God sent as the Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world. It is a mystery and blindness because of a veil over the heart. Those that turn to the Lord the vail is taken away (2Cor 3:14-16).

Read and study (John 6) and see what you come up with.

loveme1 · May 21, 2012

Red33 said:

Why do you speak this to me?

What blindness do you suggest I have?

You are unbelievable, you ignore what I write and continue to pursue me with this type of post, that does not apply to me since I know there is only Salvation through Yahshua the Messiah.

Obeying Yahvah God is an act of love and gratitude for his Salvation.

I fell on the stone and it broke me, and now raises me up day by day.

You are continuing this in vain, for I have never denied Yahshua the Messiah is son of Yahvah God.

Red33 · May 21, 2012

loveme1 said:

I am not suggesting you are blind, just that fact that some are blind according to (Rom 11:25, 2Cor 3:14) and others according to (2Cor 4:4). In either case obeying the law of the commandments will not get them out of their blindness, only the light of the glorious gospel shining unto them can do that through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit, under the new covenant, has convicted any heart to live by the (10) commandments. They have taken that up on their own accord to keep them and live by them.

Can you say that the (10) commandments are for Israel only and that is what persuades you to keep them or are they for all men to keep under the new covenant? Are you also convinced that we who are not under the law reject the law of the commandments and despise it as an unholy thing? If you do then you are wrong and are using the law of the commandments to make a comparison. I can use the law in a lawful manner without being under it and subject to its condemnation.

The Holy Spirit can use the law to convict me not to steal and to teach me to put off stealing (Eph 4:28) and go work with my hands. The Spirit of life that has made us free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2) has replaced the law of the commandments completely, leaving no part of it undone (Eph 2:15. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18), to walk and be led by the Spirit (Gal 5:16,25, Gal 5:18) and live in the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22,23).

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

If we are NOT led by the Spirit, would that mean that we would be under the law? SELAH

You can keep the Sabbath for the rest of your life but it will do nothing to impart life or bear the fruit of the Spirit in your life. You may receive a personal blessing in keeping the Sabbath with a good conscience, but it will not impart the grace of God or the faith of our lord JESUS Christ, who is the Lord of the Sabbath that was MADE FOR MAN and not MAN FOR THE SABBATH (Mt 2:27).

You have these passages to refer to for your understanding (Rom 2:17-29, 13:8-10, Jm 2:8-13).

WomanLovesTX · May 21, 2012

loveme1 said:

Loveme, there is an evil spirit abiding in all those who are hating Torah, which you and I are not of. However, those who are haters of Torah should know and recognize who's side they are standing on.

2Th 2:1 But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our gathering together to meet him, we ask you, brothers,
2Th 2:2 not to be easily shaken in your thinking or anxious because of a spirit or a spoken message or a letter supposedly from us claiming that the Day of the Lord has already come.
2Th 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.
2Th 2:4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God.
2Th 2:5 Don't you remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now you know what is restraining, so that he may be revealed in his own time.
2Th 2:7 For already this separating from Torah is at work secretly, but it will be secretly only until he who is restraining is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then the one who embodies separation from Torah will be revealed, the one whom the Lord Yeshua will slay with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the glory of his coming.
2Th 2:9 When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders.
2Th 2:10 He will enable him to deceive, in all kinds of wicked ways, those who are headed for destruction because they would not receive the love of the truth that could have saved them.
2Th 2:11 This is why God is causing them to go astray, so that they will believe the Lie.
2Th 2:12 The result will be that all who have not believed the truth, but have taken their pleasure in wickedness, will be condemned.
2Th 2:13 But we have to keep thanking God for you always, brothers whom the Lord loves, because God chose you as firstfruits for deliverance by giving you the holiness that has its origin in the Spirit and the faithfulness that has its origin in the truth.
2Th 2:14 He called you to this through our Good News, so that you could have the glory of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm; and hold to the traditions you were taught by us, whether we spoke them or wrote them in a letter.
2Th 2:16 And may our Lord Yeshua the Messiah himself and God our Father, who has loved us and by his grace given us eternal comfort and a good hope,
2Th 2:17 comfort your hearts and strengthen you in every good word and deed.

Those who oppose Torah are standing on the side of that one who is to come and call himself god. They are deceived in believing that Torah is not to be obeyed, because to be obedient would show where there true loyalty stands. If they cannot say God's commandments are good and right but can only say they are wrong and legalistic, then they themselves have become Lawless and stand, declaring themselves by fruit that they are rotten. As we grow and mature in the Word, He, through the Word and Spirit strengthens us the ability to keep the commandments with all our mind, heart, and soul.

We are saved by grace, and not thereafter given a spirit of stupidity to fight against God's Law/His manual for living righteous. We are saved by grace, and He repeatedly shows us His Ways and His Laws and ordinances is how we live our life. Obedience to God's laws is because we love Him so much and we trust Him even more that what He says is right and good for us.

Red33 · May 21, 2012

WomanLovesTX said:

Loveme, there is an evil spirit abiding in all those who are hating Torah, which you and I are not of. However, those who are haters of Torah should know and recognize who's side they are standing on.

You need to be very careful about what conclusions you come to when you assualt those that have the Spirit as having an evil spirit and hatred for the Torah. That is very close to blasphemy against the Spirit and against the word of God. Don't let your emotions and your own tongue condemn you into foolish statements that there is no forgiveness for, but only deliverance from.

2Th 2:1 But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our gathering together to meet him, we ask you, brothers,
2Th 2:2 not to be easily shaken in your thinking or anxious because of a spirit or a spoken message or a letter supposedly from us claiming that the Day of the Lord has already come.
2Th 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.
2Th 2:4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God.
2Th 2:5 Don't you remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now you know what is restraining, so that he may be revealed in his own time.
2Th 2:7 For already this separating from Torah is at work secretly, but it will be secretly only until he who is restraining is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then the one who embodies separation from Torah will be revealed, the one whom the Lord Yeshua will slay with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the glory of his coming.
2Th 2:9 When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders.
2Th 2:10 He will enable him to deceive, in all kinds of wicked ways, those who are headed for destruction because they would not receive the love of the truth that could have saved them.
2Th 2:11 This is why God is causing them to go astray, so that they will believe the Lie.
2Th 2:12 The result will be that all who have not believed the truth, but have taken their pleasure in wickedness, will be condemned.
2Th 2:13 But we have to keep thanking God for you always, brothers whom the Lord loves, because God chose you as firstfruits for deliverance by giving you the holiness that has its origin in the Spirit and the faithfulness that has its origin in the truth.
2Th 2:14 He called you to this through our Good News, so that you could have the glory of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm; and hold to the traditions you were taught by us, whether we spoke them or wrote them in a letter.
2Th 2:16 And may our Lord Yeshua the Messiah himself and God our Father, who has loved us and by his grace given us eternal comfort and a good hope,
2Th 2:17 comfort your hearts and strengthen you in every good word and deed.

Those who oppose Torah are standing on the side of that one who is to come and call himself god. They are deceived in believing that Torah is not to be obeyed, because to be obedient would show where there true loyalty stands. If they cannot say God's commandments are good and right but can only say they are wrong and legalistic, then they themselves have become Lawless and stand, declaring themselves by fruit that they are rotten. As we grow and mature in the Word, He, through the Word and Spirit strengthens us the ability to keep the commandments with all our mind, heart, and soul.

We are saved by grace, and not thereafter given a spirit of stupidity to fight against God's Law/His manual for living righteous. We are saved by grace, and He repeatedly shows us His Ways and His Laws and ordinances is how we live our life. Obedience to God's laws is because we love Him so much and we trust Him even more that what He says is right and good for us.

COMMENT ABOVE ^^^^^

WomanLovesTX · May 21, 2012

Red33 said:

The Word is very very plain. Without the Holy spirit, my flesh would have no desire to be obedient. I give praise and glory to the Father through Jesus Christ/Y'shua for opening my desire to please Him with all my heart, mind, and soul. I could never go back to the way of believing that the ten commandments/torah/ordinances are done away with when Jesus said He is the same yesterday, today and forever and He said if we love Him we will keep His commandments.

To fight as some do against the Word, demanding that grace supersedes obedience to the Father, our Elohim and to Jesus Christ, our only way to salvation through grace.

The real question you want to know is "Can anyone be perfect in keeping the ten commandments?" No flesh will live this life and be able to "never sin". But there is no license to sin after receiving the gift of God's grace. To keep His commandments out front and to meditate on daily, reminds me in a moment by moment whose I am and who I choose to follow. The Holy Spirit is my comforter and guide and I feel no shame in desiring and striving to be obedient.

Do you feel it is shameful because some (less than holy) spirit or person has told you to be lawless is the only way to receive a conscience free of disobedience? Live on Red in your high and lofty words of grace only, new covenant, replacement theology or whatever it is you are touting. Live on.

For me, I choose to live by every word of God and the scriptures are revelations to who and how and even when we do. Doing is not in itself, but doing out of love and obedience and trust and free-will choice who, how and when.

[FONT=&quot](Mat 22:37)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Mar 12:30)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Luk 10:27)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]

Deu 6:1 "Now this is the mitzvah, the laws and rulings which Adonai your God ordered me to teach you for you to obey in the land you are crossing over to possess,
Deu 6:2 so that you will fear Adonai your God and observe all his regulations and mitzvot that I am giving you - you, your child and your grandchild - as long as you live, and so that you will have long life.
Deu 6:3 Therefore listen, Isra'el, and take care to obey, so that things will go well with you, and so that you will increase greatly, as Adonai, the God of your ancestors, promised you by giving you a land flowing with milk and honey.
Deu 6:4 "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad [Hear, Isra'el! Adonai our God, Adonai is one];
Deu 6:5 and you are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, all your being and all your resources.
Deu 6:6 These words, which I am ordering you today, are to be on your heart;
Deu 6:7 and you are to teach them carefully to your children. You are to talk about them when you sit at home, when you are traveling on the road, when you lie down and when you get up.
Deu 6:8 Tie them on your hand as a sign, put them at the front of a headband around your forehead,
Deu 6:9 and write them on the door-frames of your house and on your gates.
Deu 6:10 "When Adonai your God has brought you into the land he swore to your ancestors Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya`akov that he would give you - cities great and prosperous, which you didn't build;
Deu 6:11 houses full of all sorts of good things, which you didn't fill; water cisterns dug out, which you didn't dig; vineyards and olive trees, which you didn't plant - and you have eaten your fill;
Deu 6:12 then be careful not to forget Adonai, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, where you lived as slaves.
Deu 6:13 You are to fear Adonai your God, serve him and swear by his name.
Deu 6:14 You are not to follow other gods, chosen from the gods of the peoples around you;
Deu 6:15 because Adonai, your God, who is here with you, is a jealous God. If you do, the anger of Adonai your God will flare up against you and he will destroy you from the face of the earth.
Deu 6:16 Do not put Adonai your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah [testing].
Deu 6:17 Observe diligently the mitzvot of Adonai your God, and his instructions and laws which he has given you.
Deu 6:18 You are to do what is right and good in the sight of Adonai, so that things will go well with you, and you will enter and possess the good land Adonai swore to your ancestors,
Deu 6:19 expelling all your enemies ahead of you, as Adonai said.
Deu 6:20 "Some day your child will ask you, 'What is the meaning of the instructions, laws and rulings which Adonai our God has laid down for you?'
Deu 6:21 Then you will tell your child, 'We were slaves to Pharaoh in Egypt, and Adonai brought us out of Egypt with a strong hand.
Deu 6:22 Adonai worked great and terrible signs and wonders against Egypt, Pharaoh and all his household, before our very eyes.
Deu 6:23 He brought us out from there in order to bring us to the land he had sworn to our ancestors that he would give us.
Deu 6:24 Adonai ordered us to observe all these laws, to fear Adonai our God, always for our own good, so that he might keep us alive, as we are today.
Deu 6:25 It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to obey all these mitzvot before Adonai our God, just as he ordered us to do.' "

Deu 10:12 "So now, Isra'el, all that Adonai your God asks from you is to fear Adonai your God, follow all his ways, love him and serve Adonai your God with all your heart and all your being;
Deu 10:13 to obey, for your own good, the mitzvot and regulations of Adonai which I am giving you today.

Deu 30:6 Then Adonai your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your children, so that you will love Adonai your God with all your heart and all your being, and thus you will live.
Deu 30:7 Adonai your God will put all these curses on your enemies, on those who hated and persecuted you;
Deu 30:8 but you will return and pay attention to what Adonai says and obey all his mitzvot which I am giving you today.
Deu 30:9 Then Adonai your God will give you more than enough in everything you set out to do - the fruit of your body, the fruit of your livestock, and the fruit of your land will all do well; for Adonai will once again rejoice to see you do well, just as he rejoiced in your ancestors.
Deu 30:10 "However, all this will happen only if you pay attention to what Adonai your God says, so that you obey his mitzvot and regulations which are written in this book of the Torah, if you turn to Adonai your God with all your heart and all your being.
Deu 30:11 For this mitzvah which I am giving you today is not too hard for you, it is not beyond your reach.

Mar 12:29 Yeshua answered, "The most important is, 'Sh'ma Yisra'el, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad [Hear, O Isra'el, the Lord our God, the Lord is one],
Mar 12:30 and you are to love Adonai your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your understanding and with all your strength.'
Mar 12:31 The second is this: 'You are to love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other mitzvah greater than these."
Mar 12:32 The Torah-teacher said to him, "Well said, Rabbi; you speak the truth when you say that he is one, and that there is no other besides him;
Mar 12:33 and that loving him with all one's heart, understanding and strength, and loving one's neighbor as oneself, mean more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices."
Mar 12:34 When Yeshua saw that he responded sensibly, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God." And after that, no one dared put to him another sh'eilah.

Rom 8:1 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua.
Rom 8:2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the "Torah" of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,
Rom 8:4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.
Rom 8:5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 Having one's mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one's mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom.
Rom 8:7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God's Torah — indeed, it cannot.
Rom 8:8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn't have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn't belong to him.
Rom 8:10 However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous.
Rom 8:11 And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you.
Rom 8:12 So then, brothers, we don't owe a thing to our old nature that would require us to live according to our old nature.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14 All who are led by God's Spirit are God's sons.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to bring you back again into fear; on the contrary, you received the Spirit, who makes us sons and by whose power we cry out, "Abba!" (that is, "Dear Father!").

Heb 10:1 For the Torah has in it a shadow of the good things to come, but not the actual manifestation of the originals. Therefore, it can never, by means of the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, bring to the goal those who approach the Holy Place to offer them.
Heb 10:2 Otherwise, wouldn't the offering of those sacrifices have ceased? For if the people performing the service had been cleansed once and for all, they would no longer have sins on their conscience.
Heb 10:3 No, it is quite the contrary — in these sacrifices is a reminder of sins, year after year.
Heb 10:4 For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 This is why, on coming into the world, he says, "It has not been your will to have an animal sacrifice and a meal offering; rather, you have prepared for me a body.
Heb 10:6 No, you have not been pleased with burnt offerings and sin offerings.
Heb 10:7 Then I said, 'Look! In the scroll of the book it is written about me. I have come to do your will.' "
Heb 10:8 In saying first, "You neither willed nor were pleased with animal sacrifices, meal offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings," things which are offered in accordance with the Torah;
Heb 10:9 and then, "Look, I have come to do your will"; he takes away the first system in order to set up the second.
Heb 10:10 It is in connection with this will that we have been separated for God and made holy, once and for all, through the offering of Yeshua the Messiah's body.
Heb 10:11 Now every cohen stands every day doing his service, offering over and over the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Heb 10:12 But this one, after he had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, sat down at the right hand of God,
Heb 10:13 from then on to wait until his enemies be made a footstool for his feet.
Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has brought to the goal for all time those who are being set apart for God and made holy.
Heb 10:15 And the Ruach HaKodesh too bears witness to us; for after saying,
Heb 10:16 " 'This is the covenant which I will make with them after those days,' says Adonai: 'I will put my Torah on their hearts, and write it on their minds . . . ,' "
Heb 10:17 he then adds, " 'And their sins and their wickednesses I will remember no more.' "
Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness for these, an offering for sins is no longer needed.
Heb 10:19 So, brothers, we have confidence to use the way into the Holiest Place opened by the blood of Yeshua.
Heb 10:20 He inaugurated it for us as a new and living way through the parokhet, by means of his flesh.
Heb 10:21 We also have a great cohen over God's household.
Heb 10:22 Therefore, let us approach the Holiest Place with a sincere heart, in the full assurance that comes from trusting — with our hearts sprinkled clean from a bad conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us continue holding fast to the hope we acknowledge, without wavering; for the One who made the promise is trustworthy.
Heb 10:24 And let us keep paying attention to one another, in order to spur each other on to love and good deeds,
Heb 10:25 not neglecting our own congregational meetings, as some have made a practice of doing, but, rather, encouraging each other. And let us do this all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies.
Heb 10:28 Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Think how much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenant which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of God's grace!
Heb 10:30 For the One we know is the One who said, "Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay," and then said, "Adonai will judge his people."
Heb 10:31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
Heb 10:32 But remember the earlier days, when, after you had received the light, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings.
Heb 10:33 Sometimes you were publicly disgraced and persecuted, while at other times you stood loyally by those who were treated this way.
Heb 10:34 For you shared the sufferings of those who had been put in prison. Also when your possessions were seized, you accepted it gladly; since you knew that what you possessed was better and would last forever.
Heb 10:35 So don't throw away that courage of yours, which carries with it such a great reward.
Heb 10:36 For you need to hold out; so that, by having done what God wills, you may receive what he has promised.
Heb 10:37 For "There is so, so little time! The One coming will indeed come, he will not delay.
Heb 10:38 But the person who is righteous will live his life by trusting, and if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."
Heb 10:39 However, we are not the kind who shrink back and are destroyed; on the contrary, we keep trusting and thus preserve our lives!

1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah has God as his father, and everyone who loves a father loves his offspring too.
1Jn 5:2 Here is how we know that we love God's children: when we love God, we also do what he commands.
1Jn 5:3 For loving God means obeying his commands. Moreover, his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 because everything which has God as its Father overcomes the world. And this is what victoriously overcomes the world: our trust.

RED? Does your spirit rile and find the scriptures disgusting? These are the Words we are to live. They are not my words. If you still have a problem with God's Commandments, it is not of the Holy Spirit, I assure you. For no one who loves God would hate His Words.

LawofLove · May 22, 2012

cookie39 said:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Notice verse 10 says "the seventh day" If God wanted you to pick your own sabbath day then he would of said "a sabbath day". For Instance If I asked you to pull me up "a chair to the table" then any chair will do. But if I asked you to pull me "The chair" or "that chair" up to the table that means a specific chair. So the Lord was being specific. Also He said the 7th day so twice he was being very specific.

And yes Isaiah 58:13-14 tells us very specific what we should do.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Verse 13 Says if we turn away on that day to do our own pleasure on "His Holy day" (Notice His Holy day not ours). Yes the Sabbath was made for man, but it was ours to"keep it Holy" (Ex 20:8) And yes I agree that we should be Holy everyday. And if you believe that too then the only way to be Holy on the Sabbath is to keep it Holy as a day. But to say we can make any other day Holy is Impossible for God only made one day Holy.

You also asked where in the NT did Jews and Gents keep the sabbath.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

So we see just a few verse here showing both worshiped on the sabbath in a synagogue witch would be the equivalent to a church now days.

As far as to what you asked how meany times did Jesus or anyone els worship on sabbath let take a look.

Jesus made it his custom to read in the synagogue on sabbath

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Paul also Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

I hope I did not miss any of your questions, feel free to ask more God bless.

UNDERSTANDING COLOSSIANS 2:14 Keep all 10 Commandments by the grace of God!

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