Romans 2: 17-24 and Romans 4: 14-16

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T

texian

Guest
#1
Romans 2: 17-24 and Romans 4: 14-16

Romans 2 is the chapter which ends with Paul's statement that an
outward Jew is not a real Jew, but a real Jew is one who is an inward
Jew. He turned the chosen people teaching upside down.

But in Chapter 2 he has more to say which contradicts what is taught
in many churches since the theology of John Darby, C.I. Scofield and
Lewis S. Chafer took over so many churches.

Romans 2: 17-24 says "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in
the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18. And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more
excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19. And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a
light of them which are in darkness,
20. An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the
form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not
thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou
steal?...Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the
law dishonourest thou God?
24. For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through
you, as it is written."

Then in Romans 4: 14-16 Paul writes that "For if they which are of the
law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15. Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no
transgression.
16. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end
the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is
of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is
the father of us all,"

"They which are of the law" at the time Paul was writing was physical
Israel, the Jews. He is saying if they which rely upon the law for
salvation, and don't keep it perfectly, faith is destroyed, and the
promise is of no effect. In verse 16 he is saying something he also
says, perhaps in a more explicit way, in Galatians 3: 16,18, 22,
27-29, "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith
not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which
is Christ....For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of
promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise....But the scripture
hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus
Christ might be given to them that believe....For as many of you as
have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise."

He is talking here about the transformation of physical Israel to
Israel as a spiritual house (I Peter 2: 5) born again in Jesus Christ.
They which are are of law had relied upon their obedience to both the
moral and ceremonial law for salvation, but they were unable to keep
the law perfectly and as Paul says in Romans 9: 31-32 that physical
Israel did not attain to the law of righteousness because they sought
it not by faith, but by the works of the law, in which they stumbled
at that stumbling stone.

They which were of the law under the Old Covenant relied upon their
physical, and literal descent from Abraham for salvation. They relied
upon physical circumcision, on the temple building and several
observances of the ceremonial law as shadows of the substance which
was to come as Christ. In the transformation of Israel the shadows
were done away with, the physical things were done away with, and in
the texts quoted Paul is careful to teach that literal, physical
descent from Abraham is no longer the way to salvation, but faith,
following the faith of Abraham, is the way under the New Covenant,
under Israel transformed into a spiritual house

The teaching of Paul here in Romans and Galatians is not taught
clearly in the churches under Darby, Scofield and Chafer. The
theology of these guys teaches that
Christians have their identity in the church, which is just an
assembly, a meeting, a congregation of Israel as a spiritual house,
not a different Body of Christ. The theology of Darby, Scofield and
Chafer teaches instead that Christians in the church must honor the chosen
people, who are not the Christians as I Peter 2:9 teaches. Christians
in the church are surrogates or proxies for those who remain the
chosen people. The church Christians who follow Darby, Scofield and
Chafer have an identity problem. In plain language, they are messed up.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#2
Texian, I really enjoy reading your posts, I think you have great way of explaining passages in their context. I do have a question for you if you don't mind. Under the law, the did rely on their descent, plus their obedience to the laws ordinances.
But do you feel under the NT we must be obedient to the faith? As in keeping Christ's commands, and do you believe we have a law to follow under the NT?

I am just wondering, sorry if it is off subject.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#3
I call these heretics SCOFFIELDITES, since they are scoffers (2Peter3:3). But they shall have their just fate met. Amen.
 
T

texian

Guest
#4
"But do you feel under the NT we must be obedient to the faith? As in keeping Christ's commands, and do you believe we have a law to follow under the NT?"

The moral law is necessary in the Gospel, because it shows us our sins, and only by being under the blood of Christ and repenting of our sins, asking Christ for forgiveness and stopping doing them can we be free of them. But Paul in Romans 8: 1 and in Galatians 5: 17-18 tells us that if we are led by the Holy Spirit, who leads us out of sin, as well as into the truth, then we are not in bondage under the law and there is no condemnation.

In Romans Paul has a list of sins of the reprobate mind in Romans 1: 28-31. In Mark 7: 20-22 Christ lists a number of sins of the flesh. Then in Galatians 5: 16-21 Paul has an important list of sins of the flesh.

II Timothy 3: 1-5 is a prophecy by Paul of the personality traits of people in the last days, many of which (traits) can be read as sins of the flesh of man.
 
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F

feedm3

Guest
#5
"But do you feel under the NT we must be obedient to the faith? As in keeping Christ's commands, and do you believe we have a law to follow under the NT?"

The moral law is necessary in the Gospel, because it shows us our sins, and only by being under the blood of Christ and repenting of our sins, asking Christ for forgiveness and stopping doing them can we be free of them. But Paul in Romans 8: 1 and in Galatians 5: 17-18 tells us that if we are led by the Holy Spirit, who leads us out of sin, as well as into the truth, then we are not in bondage under the law and there is no condemnation.

In Romans Paul has a list of sins of the reprobate mind in Romans 1: 28-31. In Mark 7: 20-22 Christ lists a number of sins of the flesh. Then in Galatians 5: 16-21 Paul has an important list of sins of the flesh.

II Timothy 3: 1-5 is a prophecy by Paul of the personality traits of people in the last days, many of which (traits) can be read as sins of the flesh of man.
Thank you for replying:) I understand you better now.