The Elect?
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C
At the risk of starting something I would suggest that those that believe that God loves some and not all, are dealing with two issues:
One they don't believe the Bible is the whole and complete and true Word of God, for they ignore or try and explain away verses like John 3:16.
Two they have a desire to feel special, to be special and that blinds them to the amazing love that God has for all people, even when we fail.
One they don't believe the Bible is the whole and complete and true Word of God, for they ignore or try and explain away verses like John 3:16.
Two they have a desire to feel special, to be special and that blinds them to the amazing love that God has for all people, even when we fail.
J
Kosmos
Strong's Number: 2889
Definition
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
the world, the universe
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
If you go to the Greek, let alone proper exegesis, you find that it's grossly misquoted.
(Source: http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html <-- click!)
Slightly more academic(if that's what you're into):
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFZjsfaO2kc[/video]
That one pretty much gets killed right away. Examine TULIP a little closer
Especially the T and the U.
Strong's Number: 2889
Definition
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
the world, the universe
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
If you go to the Greek, let alone proper exegesis, you find that it's grossly misquoted.
(Source: http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html <-- click!)
Slightly more academic(if that's what you're into):
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFZjsfaO2kc[/video]
That one pretty much gets killed right away. Examine TULIP a little closer
Especially the T and the U.
C
Kosmos
Strong's Number: 2889
Definition
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
the world, the universe
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
If you go to the Greek, let alone proper exegesis, you find that it's grossly misquoted.
(Source: Kosmos - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard <-- click!)
Slightly more academic(if that's what you're into):
That one pretty much gets killed right away. Examine TULIP a little closer Especially the T and the U.
Strong's Number: 2889
Definition
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
the world, the universe
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19
If you go to the Greek, let alone proper exegesis, you find that it's grossly misquoted.
(Source: Kosmos - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard <-- click!)
Slightly more academic(if that's what you're into):
That one pretty much gets killed right away. Examine TULIP a little closer
Especially the T and the U.
. I am not going to get into this debate again, its not worth my time nor effort, if you want to feel extra special more power to you. I will point out something that runs through the whole message of the Bible. God is a Just God, which means we all deserve death and he didn't need to save any of us. But he sent his son anyways and then called us to share the message of salvation, which isn't necessary if only certain people will be saved anyways. Then we also know that God is Love and this is love:Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never fails.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." God desires and hopes that all will turn to him because he is Love and Loves us all. "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time"
Anyways I am done, you can ignore or try and explain away what you want, but the Bible is either all true or all false.
"Now the Lord had said to Abram:“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”"
"since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him"
"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."
G
Here is how The Word said it, I am.paraphrasing but more than one time Jesus says this.....
Go into ALL (I don't sense any selectivity in this phrasing, do you, jimdig???) the world, baptizing THEM (What word does 'them' modify, jimdig??) in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and, God the Holy Spirit.
God's elect is who? ALL .
IF you believe God birthed Jesus through His Holy Spirit seed placed into Mary's womb--and you should because scripture is clear as ever-clear of this intoxicatingly real Truth, then God-HolySpirit-Jesus said this ALL True.
Go into ALL (I don't sense any selectivity in this phrasing, do you, jimdig???) the world, baptizing THEM (What word does 'them' modify, jimdig??) in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and, God the Holy Spirit.
God's elect is who? ALL .
IF you believe God birthed Jesus through His Holy Spirit seed placed into Mary's womb--and you should because scripture is clear as ever-clear of this intoxicatingly real Truth, then God-HolySpirit-Jesus said this ALL True.
C
Are we, believers of the Christ, the elect (the chosen) of the LORD:
Isa 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob (Christians), and out of Judah an inheritor (Jesus) of my mountains: and mine elect (they who are chosen over the physical Jew) shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name (Christians):
Isa 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob (Christians), and out of Judah an inheritor (Jesus) of my mountains: and mine elect (they who are chosen over the physical Jew) shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name (Christians):
G
Yes, 'it' can triber . And, got news for you, and, it's Good News, it does mean ( every-person-everywhere-on-earth-that-ever-lived-or-ever-will-lives).
Few are chosen.
What does this REALLY say?
It says that God cannot choose someone His chosen unless they CHOOSE Him first.
Why should we choose (Love) God?
Because He first Loved us
Few are chosen.
What does this REALLY say?
It says that God cannot choose someone His chosen unless they CHOOSE Him first.
Why should we choose (Love) God?
Because He first Loved us
Even though you weren't addressing it, I'll interpret this verse..he is speaking of the Father giving the Church to Christ at the fullness of time,
Matthew 24:13 - But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
If you make it to the end you are part of the Church which is given to Christ, if you are found worthy upon judgment, your saved and of course you will not be cast out. But how did this go from election to eternal security???
Matthew 24:13 - But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
If you make it to the end you are part of the Church which is given to Christ, if you are found worthy upon judgment, your saved and of course you will not be cast out. But how did this go from election to eternal security???
G
Yes, 'it' can triber . And, got news for you, and, it's Good News, it does mean ( every-person-everywhere-on-earth-that-ever-lived-or-ever-will-lives).
Few are chosen.
What does this REALLY say?
It says that God cannot choose someone His chosen unless they CHOOSE Him first.
Why should we choose (Love) God?
Because He first Loved us
Few are chosen.
What does this REALLY say?
It says that God cannot choose someone His chosen unless they CHOOSE Him first.
Why should we choose (Love) God?
Because He first Loved us
Yes, we choose Christ, or not, based on Christ drawing us to Him.
My stance is definitive, we ELECT to choose Christ and His promises by faith, and, in so doing, become God's (Christ's) elect.
The best way I can put this is, for an election we choose Obama. He does not choose us.
Obama's elect are therefore those who ANSWER THE CALL TO VOTE FOR OBAMA.
This comparative to Christ, as God shows Himself into a publican (unbeliever's) life and that publican must choose Christ into their live. It's obviously a lot different voting for Obama than Christ, eternally different.
=================
So, yes, We choose God but ONLY after His drawing Himself unto us. Saying 'yes' or 'no' to salvation soleky and soully lies with the unbeliever's choice. Most think its tooo hard to change their unGodly doing life , and, that EXPLAINS the 'Many are called, but few are chosen' verse .
Good verse for God calling us to Him are many , read Ephesians 1 or Titus 2:11 and if neither helps you to understand the GRACE of God when it comes to His giving ALL the salvation message, ask Him for help, like James 1: 5-6
Sorry if what I say is confusing.
Yes, we choose Christ, or not, based on Christ drawing us to Him.
My stance is definitive, we ELECT to choose Christ and His promises by faith, and, in so doing, become God's (Christ's) elect.
The best way I can put this is, for an election we choose Obama. He does not choose us.
Obama's elect are therefore those who ANSWER THE CALL TO VOTE FOR OBAMA.
This comparative to Christ, as God shows Himself into a publican (unbeliever's) life and that publican must choose Christ into their live. It's obviously a lot different voting for Obama than Christ, eternally different.
=================
So, yes, We choose God but ONLY after His drawing Himself unto us. Saying 'yes' or 'no' to salvation soleky and soully lies with the unbeliever's choice. Most think its tooo hard to change their unGodly doing life , and, that EXPLAINS the 'Many are called, but few are chosen' verse .
Good verse for God calling us to Him are many , read Ephesians 1 or Titus 2:11 and if neither helps you to understand the GRACE of God when it comes to His giving ALL the salvation message, ask Him for help, like James 1: 5-6
Yes, we choose Christ, or not, based on Christ drawing us to Him.
My stance is definitive, we ELECT to choose Christ and His promises by faith, and, in so doing, become God's (Christ's) elect.
The best way I can put this is, for an election we choose Obama. He does not choose us.
Obama's elect are therefore those who ANSWER THE CALL TO VOTE FOR OBAMA.
This comparative to Christ, as God shows Himself into a publican (unbeliever's) life and that publican must choose Christ into their live. It's obviously a lot different voting for Obama than Christ, eternally different.
=================
So, yes, We choose God but ONLY after His drawing Himself unto us. Saying 'yes' or 'no' to salvation soleky and soully lies with the unbeliever's choice. Most think its tooo hard to change their unGodly doing life , and, that EXPLAINS the 'Many are called, but few are chosen' verse .
Good verse for God calling us to Him are many , read Ephesians 1 or Titus 2:11 and if neither helps you to understand the GRACE of God when it comes to His giving ALL the salvation message, ask Him for help, like James 1: 5-6
You say it is possible for sinners to "change", if they just want to. How can a dead man change? Read Eph.2:1-3 about the nature of sinners.
I mean some people are never given the chance to hear (like people living in remote jungles, North Korean camps, the middle east, small children who die young, etc.), and some people hear and simply reject. What promises are you speaking of? I know God promised to redeem a people for Himself, and as long as you consider yourself saved that promise has been kept.
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F
Great passages, except why would you bring them up, they refute and answer your question "how can a dead man change?"
1 And you hath he quickened, who were (They were dead past tense) dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, (They were going to be destroyed in this condtion)even as others.
Now here is the answer to your question:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Here is why they obtained the grace of God:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Keep reading:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Again it goes back to their choice to obey the Gospel. They heard of Christ "in whom YE trusted" after "YE heard the WORD OF TRUTH" and after "YE believed" the "GOSPEL OF THEIR SALVATION".
BECAUSE IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION UNTO ALL THAT BELIEVE, just as it's power to change the DEAD Ephesians and make the ALIVE in Christ because the believed and trusted the word of truth. God made it available, they accepted it. It's really not that hard man.