Church Marketing Is Nothing But Wood Hay And Stubble That Will Burn Easily

[BLC]

When I speak of worldliness I'm not talking about Christians battling with their sins on a personal level but leaders embracing the worlds methods to please themselves and people instead of God. Perhaps you are not aware of just how far from sound doctrine many of the newer as well as some established Churches and their leaders have gone but any God-fearing Christian would certainly want to expose them.

1Jn 4:5,6 "They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1John 2:15 "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world".

Romans 16:17,18 says "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple".

Sounds like many of today's popular preachers. Why does God want us to avoid them? I would say for one because He doesn't want true believers to be influenced buy them and secondly He doesn't want unbelievers thinking they serve the Lord when they don't. God is willing that none should perish but that all come to repentance and I think each believer should be led by the Lord as to reaching out to those that are misled, without compromise.

Think of the many things that God could expose in our own lives that are carnal and worldly, that have to do with the flesh and leaven that has not been purged. All those things that have not been crucified in our experience because we like them and give them preference. The outward things are obvious but those carnally minded things control us and involve the choices we make one thought at a time. There is no difference in being worldly or carnal minded because both involve being under the control of one or of many lust patterns of the flesh. Carnal or worldly thinking will always lead to personal sin.

If you were in a local church body with many carnal believers, as was the case at Corinth, would you leave that local body or would you stay and teach Jesus Christ and Him crucified? The apostle Paul never gave up on them, he wrote letters, prayed for them and visited them and refused to know them after the flesh. Maybe if you left that would only be an indication that the personality makeup of your flesh doesn't like the personality makeup of their flesh. Think about it.

 

[iraasuup]

Oooh I couldn't agree more! Honestly I have raised this point more than once.. and I wondered if no-one else got it. So thankyou!!

Honestly, I wouldnt care in the slightest, if we all sat on a picnic rug in the park to have church. We don't need fancy buildings, and snazzy chairs, and a full band with 15 musicians on stage, a thousand balloons and performing babboons! It's just ludicrous. It irritates me no end that we get all caught up with this 'on the surface stuff'... when we could be out there fulfilling real needs... (brings me back to my tithing point- AHEM!)

Hence my strong disdain for Hillsong/ and other 'pseudo Christian' popular hype-creating groups/ministries. People get caught up on whats' popular, trendy, cool.. the latest craze. It does my head in! I would much rather seek out the truth for myself (as we are instructed to do).. than just jump on the bandwagon of the the latest fad.

I think it's time we all started thinking for ourselves. We need to remember what its really all about.. instead of getting caught up in what we've created it to be.

Anyway, thanks again. I'm so glad I'm not fighting this battle on my own.

I'm done

 

[BLC]

Let's say I am one of those that attend the kind of 'worldly' church you are referring to. I am having some problems with my flesh and I am carnal. God puts someone in my path that really needs to be ministered to. They are saved and Christ is in them but they need a cup of cold water to refresh them or they are naked and they need some clothes or they are sick and they need to be visited and cared for. Out of nowhere the Holy Spirit through grace begins to shed love abroad in my heart for that person. I am still carnal but God wants to minister to them through me. I don't understand why God would want to use me but it must be grace. I know that there must be sin in my life that I have not repented of but God still wants to use me. Why would He do that when there are so many others that are more qualified and more spiritual then I am? Because God looks upon the heart and not on the outward appearance (1Sam 16:7, 2Cor 10:7). Did you hear that? It's in your Bible.

Do you remember what Paul said in (Rom 7:14) when he was in his great human dilemma, 'But we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal sold under sin'. The verb 'am'is eimi, meaning 'to be' is in the present indicative, which means at this very present time (right now), as a matter of fact (indicative mood), I am carnal (sarkikos-under the control of the flesh and the old sin nature). How can God use that kind of person who is worldly and not right on the outside? Because they have a heart after God on the inside and that is what God looked upon when He put that person in the way. You can be the most moral person in your church and not have a heart that can receive grace and all your morality (righteousnesses) before God is filthy rags because your heart is not right (Is 64:6, Ps 78:37, ).

In (2Chr 25:2) you have the king of Judah, Amaziah, who did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord but not with a perfect heart. Later he worshiped the gods of the Edomites who he had defeated. It happened to Solomon in (1Kgs 11:4) when his wives turned him away to other gods. How can you explain how David and his men went into the house of God and ate the shewbread that was not lawful to do, but only for the priests (Mt 12:3,4) and nothing happened to David or his men and then you have Uzziah, the son of Amaziah, who became king and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense and God gave him leprosy because of his transgression. The answer is that David was humble in his heart and received grace but Uzziah was lifted up in his heart through pride and received no grace (2Chr 26:16). God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud (James 4:6, 1Pt 5:5).

If a person has intended on evil in their heart, no matter what you do to abstain from the appearance of evil, they are always going to find something evil to say about it, even when you do your best to let no man speak evil of your good, whether it is according to your intentions or your works.

 

[1still_waters]

Let's say I am one of those that attend the kind of 'worldly' church you are referring to. I am having some problems with my flesh and I am carnal. God puts someone in my path that really needs to be ministered to. They are saved and Christ is in them but they need a cup of cold water to refresh them or they are naked and they need some clothes or they are sick and they need to be visited and cared for. Out of nowhere the Holy Spirit through grace begins to shed love abroad in my heart for that person. I am still carnal but God wants to minister to them through me. I don't understand why God would want to use me but it must be grace. I know that there must be sin in my life that I have not repented of but God still wants to use me. Why would He do that when there are so many others that are more qualified and more spiritual then I am? Because God looks upon the heart and not on the outward appearance (1Sam 16:7, 2Cor 10:7). Did you hear that? It's in your Bible.

Do you remember what Paul said in (Rom 7:14) when he was in his great human dilemma, 'But we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal sold under sin'. The verb 'am'is eimi, meaning 'to be' is in the present indicative, which means at this very present time (right now), as a matter of fact (indicative mood), I am carnal (sarkikos-under the control of the flesh and the old sin nature). How can God use that kind of person who is worldly and not right on the outside? Because they have a heart after God on the inside and that is what God looked upon when He put that person in the way. You can be the most moral person in your church and not have a heart that can receive grace and all your morality (righteousnesses) before God is filthy rags because your heart is not right (Is 64:6, Ps 78:37, ).

In (2Chr 25:2) you have the king of Judah, Amaziah, who did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord but not with a perfect heart. Later he worshiped the gods of the Edomites who he had defeated. It happened to Solomon in (1Kgs 11:4) when his wives turned him away to other gods. How can you explain how David and his men went into the house of God and ate the shewbread that was not lawful to do, but only for the priests (Mt 12:3,4) and nothing happened to David or his men and then you have Uzziah, the son of Amaziah, who became king and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense and God gave him leprosy because of his transgression. The answer is that David was humble in his heart and received grace but Uzziah was lifted up in his heart through pride and received no grace (2Chr 26:16). God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud (James 4:6, 1Pt 5:5).

If a person has intended on evil in their heart, no matter what you do to abstain from the appearance of evil, they are always going to find something evil to say about it, even when you do your best to let no man speak evil of your good, whether it is according to your intentions or your works.

Hey I'm trying to figure out how this fits into what this thread is about. Are you saying, "Yes, the church has much worldly like tactics, but God is still using it?"

There is some merit to what you are saying, but it still doesn't give license to a church to go way way way out of their way to use wordly tactics to attract and keep folks in the seats. And in the end, the fires of judgment will come along and test the validity of the work being done...

 

[1still_waters]

Let's say I am one of those that attend the kind of 'worldly' church you are referring to. I am having some problems with my flesh and I am carnal. God puts someone in my path that really needs to be ministered to. They are saved and Christ is in them but they need a cup of cold water to refresh them or they are naked and they need some clothes or they are sick and they need to be visited and cared for. Out of nowhere the Holy Spirit through grace begins to shed love abroad in my heart for that person. I am still carnal but God wants to minister to them through me. I don't understand why God would want to use me but it must be grace. I know that there must be sin in my life that I have not repented of but God still wants to use me. Why would He do that when there are so many others that are more qualified and more spiritual then I am? Because God looks upon the heart and not on the outward appearance (1Sam 16:7, 2Cor 10:7). Did you hear that? It's in your Bible.

There is a difference between giving someone some food and clothing to meet their needs and having fog machines, intricately lit stages and pastor and staff doing GQ like photo shoots for their latest multi-media ad blitz.

 

[BLC]

Hey I'm trying to figure out how this fits into what this thread is about. Are you saying, "Yes, the church has much worldly like tactics, but God is still using it?"

There is some merit to what you are saying, but it still doesn't give license to a church to go way way way out of their way to use wordly tactics to attract and keep folks in the seats. And in the end, the fires of judgment will come along and test the validity of the work being done...

If these churches use this approach, you don't have to agree with it but you don't have to judge them either for doing it. If you don't agree then go and show them a better way. If that is not possible, commit them to God, mind your own affairs and follow Christ. How they spend the money that God brings into their barns (Prov 3:10) belongs to them and they will be required of their own stewardship before God. It is not our place to steady the ark (the presence of God) in any ministry that God has raised up (2Sam 6:6,7). Did not our Lord tell Peter to not be concerned about how He would use John (John 21:21,22)? And what about (Mk 9:38-41) when the disciples forbade another who was casting out devils but was not with them? If God has raised them up He will deal with them as a local church. There are denominations out there that love God but teach things that are just not right. They have this denominational teaching and they would die for it. The thing about it is that God is using them to win the lost and reap a harvest because they believe and practice the great commission. They are always on fire, always fervent and have the love of God in their hearts. Hopefully, they will get some of these things right as they walk in the light.

Example: The one I am thinking is the teaching that there is physical healing in the atonement. By His stripes we are healed (Is 53:5, 1Pt 2:24). These believers that teach and believe this will die or go to be with Christ in the rapture before they would change their convictions on this. In their heart they know that God loves all people and that Jesus Christ healed the masses. Without getting into this understanding they have, I'll suffice to say, that if there was healing in the atonement, the instant a person receives Jesus Christ as Savior, who atoned for their sins, they should be healed of every affliction with no exceptions. But we know that this does not happen and there are those who believe that have afflictions their whole life and are never healed. It is just as much to the glory of God for them to walk by faith in their afflictions as it is to walk by faith without them. The thorn that Paul was given in his flesh was a great affliction and he prayed three times and God never removed it and told him that His grace would be sufficient (2Cor 12:7-10). So Paul learned to glory in his affliction.

 

[1still_waters]

If these churches use this approach, you don't have to agree with it but you don't have to judge them either for doing it. If you don't agree then go and show them a better way. If that is not possible, commit them to God, mind your own affairs and follow Christ. How they spend the money that God brings into their barns (Prov 3:10) belongs to them and they will be required of their own stewardship before God. It is not our place to steady the ark (the presence of God) in any ministry that God has raised up (2Sam 6:6,7). Did not our Lord tell Peter to not be concerned about how He would use John (John 21:21,22)? And what about (Mk 9:38-41) when the disciples forbade another who was casting out devils but was not with them? If God has raised them up He will deal with them as a local church. There are denominations out there that love God but teach things that are just not right. They have this denominational teaching and they would die for it. The thing about it is that God is using them to win the lost and reap a harvest because they believe and practice the great commission. They are always on fire, always fervent and have the love of God in their hearts. Hopefully, they will get some of these things right as they walk in the light.

.

Those are some nice Biblical examples of NOT becoming jealous of other successful ministries. But those people in scripture were probably not relying on wood, hay and stubble to go about ministering.

I really think it's apples n oranges here.

If you have two ministries that are properly doing ministry without use of wood, hay and stubble ministry tactics, and they get jealous, then yeah that's wrong!

But I'm talking about ministries here that aren't just 'competition'. I'm talking about ministries that are using ways that are clearly shallow and worldly and won't pass through the fires of judgment.

 

[mcap]

Is there really any difference between an old-school church having a choir leader directing a choir,singing songs devoted to God and the contemporary church with their bands and lights and fog STILL singing songs devoted to God?
I think as long as the end result is Gods' word being preached and not sugar-coated and people know when they walk out the doors that Jesus is real and God raised Him from the dead then I don't have a problem.

 

[His_will_i_am]

What so many people have forgotten and even purposely ignored is that it's not just our words which define us but the example which we set. The problem which has been around for hundreds of years is in the example of the Lord which is being presented. When the leadership and the assembly, because they are responsible too, resort to gimmicks toentice people into their buildings, this gives of the message that the Jesus who they worship was a showman or like a game show host. But anyone who knows the Lord knows that He, nor His apostles, resorted to any type of gimmick to bring people to the Lord. They relied upon the message and supernatural power, period. Our Lord's ways were very simple, but men decided that they could do things better and this is the reason why the Body of Christ is so divided and spiritually malnourished, even amongst the vast majority of those in leadership.

 

[mcap]

I belong to a church with about 5,000 members between 5 churches.Our service begins with a band onstage playing Christian songs and the congregation sings along.Yes there are lights and cameras due to the online connection.After the band is finished and the bright lights go out the minister preaches his message.He is not one to sugar-coat things,he says word for word what is in the Bible.
A big percentage of the church is made up of people 18-30.I believe these people love God and try to live Godly lives.Why is it not possible to attend a church like this and still receive a Godly message?

 

[His_will_i_am]

You can receive a godly message, but is the example being set one of the Christ as described in the Scriptures?

 

[BLC]

Those are some nice Biblical examples of NOT becoming jealous of other successful ministries. But those people in scripture were probably not relying on wood, hay and stubble to go about ministering.

I really think it's apples n oranges here.

If you have two ministries that are properly doing ministry without use of wood, hay and stubble ministry tactics, and they get jealous, then yeah that's wrong!

But I'm talking about ministries here that aren't just 'competition'. I'm talking about ministries that are using ways that are clearly shallow and worldly and won't pass through the fires of judgment.

I do understand what you are trying to communicate. I don't want to belabor what has already been said. God has been putting a fire in your heart for the lost. You go to bed and God wakes you up and tells you to go minister in a local bar, would you obey God or would you be concerned about what others would think, even your wife? For you, would that be considered worldly and putting yourself in a place of temptation? If you go and you sit down and order a coke would you be concerned what people might think of why you are there? Maybe to pick someone up or perhaps have a few drinks. What if someone recognized you who you had rubbed shoulders with in the recent past through work or some other activity and they knew you were a Christian, would you be self conscious and worried especially as a married man sitting next to a women that just hit up on you? But what about obeying God's voice?

You strike up a conversation with a couple that went there for a few drinks and they listened to everything you had to say. God prepared their heart and the love of God met them right there in that bar. They both receive Christ in brokenness and come to your church. They love God and are faithful and become good friends. They never judged you for being at the bar because they are amazed that God would even meet them where they were at. Some believers would be horrified by this but think of where we were at when God met us. We all were not at a church service when we got saved and the kind of places that God met up with us where not exactly sacred. I don't care for the kind of methods that some use to draw people to their services, nor do I ascribe to Christian Rock Music. But I will not judge them or become critical of them. If God had called me to any of those churches with the convictions I have, I would do my best through grace to show them a better way to compel people to come in so that God's house could be full.

 

[carpetmanswife]

Good point. Maybe some things are good for attracting people. But once attracted, I wonder what is 'keeping' them there? I'm sure if you pulled the 'fog machines' and all the other hoopla away, you'd find out really quick.

I was just writing if my son was attracted to the church for the hoopla ..id be thrilled but ONLY if he stayed for the right reasons!....

 

[1still_waters]

I belong to a church with about 5,000 members between 5 churches.Our service begins with a band onstage playing Christian songs and the congregation sings along.Yes there are lights and cameras due to the online connection.After the band is finished and the bright lights go out the minister preaches his message.He is not one to sugar-coat things,he says word for word what is in the Bible.
A big percentage of the church is made up of people 18-30.I believe these people love God and try to live Godly lives.Why is it not possible to attend a church like this and still receive a Godly message?

I just want to see what happens if those things are taken away. That's all. Like would folks still stick around? Part of me thinks they wouldn't hence the reason for me viewing these things as wood hay and stubble.

 

[e-Sword86]

Think of the many things that God could expose in our own lives that are carnal and worldly, that have to do with the flesh and leaven that has not been purged. All those things that have not been crucified in our experience because we like them and give them preference. The outward things are obvious but those carnally minded things control us and involve the choices we make one thought at a time. There is no difference in being worldly or carnal minded because both involve being under the control of one or of many lust patterns of the flesh. Carnal or worldly thinking will always lead to personal sin.

If you were in a local church body with many carnal believers, as was the case at Corinth, would you leave that local body or would you stay and teach Jesus Christ and Him crucified? The apostle Paul never gave up on them, he wrote letters, prayed for them and visited them and refused to know them after the flesh. Maybe if you left that would only be an indication that the personality makeup of your flesh doesn't like the personality makeup of their flesh. Think about it.

It sounds like you're talking about something else but I'm talking about the Church being influenced by the world and heresy (the rejection or corruption of certain doctrines). At what point do you take a STAND and say NO to what is being allowed inside the Church? Do you just embrace whatever comes in whether it's biblical or not, let God deal with it and hope for the best? I've listed some things on here that are worldly, sacrilegious and quite offensive. They are a few actual examples of what is happening in the Church and you can find them on the Internet. If you get the point, show me in the bible where God would approve of and the Church should be passive with any of this garbage:

1. New Spring "Church" band plays AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" song during an Easter service.

2. Great Lakes Church in Kenosha, Wisconsin has replaced the offense of the cross and the Gospel message that Christ died for our sins with the offense of sex and porn talk and the elementary school where they were meeting threw them out. (How sad is it when unbelievers 'get it' but these seeker-driven goat herders don't?)

3. Guts Church's "Pastor" Bill Scheer, along with being a "prosperity gospel" heretic, also claims that he is not a sinner. This is a very serious error because the Bible is perfectly clear that anyone who claims he has no sin deceives himself and makes God out to be a liar.

4. Marcus Borg is one of the 'scholars' that Post-Modern Liberals (Emergents) are being influenced by. Borg trys to explain that the Bible is NOT inspired by God but is a man-made product.

5. Jane Dratz, guest columnist for the Christian Post is on a mission to share the 'Christian faith' with everything EXCEPT the Bible. This time she is advocating sharing the Christian faith using MTV's America's Best Dance Crew.

"Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"? James 4:4,5

 

[Forgiven83]

You know, its all very well and good to condemn elements that the churches may or may not be using.....but I would like to think my God is bigger than that. The most important thing is whether the church is preaching the whole and true word of God isnt it??? Whether it has fog machines, or lights, or fairy bread??? I would like to think that God can work even somewhere with a flash worship team....after all, only God can read hearts, we cant! If a church, with all good intentions, is preaching a whole and true word of God, AND wants to offer up their very best to God with a flash worship team, or lights or whatever, who are we to criticise??? I am reminded of a verse from Phillipians that I think is relevant....

It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[c] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

If Paul can rejoice when people are DELIBERATELY and KNOWINGLY preaching out of false motives, how much more can we when people are preaching a good word wrapped up in fluff?

 

[BLC]

It sounds like you're talking about something else but I'm talking about the Church being influenced by the world and heresy (the rejection or corruption of certain doctrines). At what point do you take a STAND and say NO to what is being allowed inside the Church? Do you just embrace whatever comes in whether it's biblical or not, let God deal with it and hope for the best? I've listed some things on here that are worldly, sacrilegious and quite offensive. They are a few actual examples of what is happening in the Church and you can find them on the Internet. If you get the point, show me in the bible where God would approve of and the Church should be passive with any of this garbage:

1. New Spring "Church" band plays AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" song during an Easter service.

2. Great Lakes Church in Kenosha, Wisconsin has replaced the offense of the cross and the Gospel message that Christ died for our sins with the offense of sex and porn talk and the elementary school where they were meeting threw them out. (How sad is it when unbelievers 'get it' but these seeker-driven goat herders don't?)

3. Guts Church's "Pastor" Bill Scheer, along with being a "prosperity gospel" heretic, also claims that he is not a sinner. This is a very serious error because the Bible is perfectly clear that anyone who claims he has no sin deceives himself and makes God out to be a liar.

4. Marcus Borg is one of the 'scholars' that Post-Modern Liberals (Emergents) are being influenced by. Borg trys to explain that the Bible is NOT inspired by God but is a man-made product.

5. Jane Dratz, guest columnist for the Christian Post is on a mission to share the 'Christian faith' with everything EXCEPT the Bible. This time she is advocating sharing the Christian faith using MTV's America's Best Dance Crew.

"Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"? James 4:4,5

It is an easy thing to make a list as you have done, we all have our list. The list you have put out there is on liberal side that can easily be labeled and condemned. I could give you a list on the legalistic side with some you might even condone. If those you have mentioned are worldly and you consider what they do to be garbage then how do you consider those who legislate God's word without grace and put people back into bondage? Is there anything that you or I can do about those lists except expose and condemn them? Do we do it so that others will know the truth about them and flee? If you believe that you have that calling or want to take on that kind of work in your walk with God, then go fulfill it and then you will know if they are of God or not and if your calling was from the God of all grace.

I think it wise to leave them alone and let them be rewarded according to their work. God will try every man's work as to what sort it is, that includes you and me. We are called by grace to reveal Christ and to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. We live by the faith of the Son of God who died and gave His for us. We are crucified to the world and the world is crucified unto us (Gal 6:14). We are called to take up our cross, deny ourself and follow Christ. He came to seek and to save the lost. We are called to teach the commandments of Christ and make disciples of all men. As a priest we are called to pray and to interdede for all men. We are called to be faithful and to esteem others better then ourselves as we condescend to men of low estate. Don't you think that being involved in the work of the ministry is enough without adding unnecessary burdens?

 

[e-Sword86]

It is an easy thing to make a list as you have done, we all have our list. The list you have put out there is on liberal side that can easily be labeled and condemned. I could give you a list on the legalistic side with some you might even condone. If those you have mentioned are worldly and you consider what they do to be garbage then how do you consider those who legislate God's word without grace and put people back into bondage? Is there anything that you or I can do about those lists except expose and condemn them? Do we do it so that others will know the truth about them and flee? If you believe that you have that calling or want to take on that kind of work in your walk with God, then go fulfill it and then you will know if they are of God or not and if your calling was from the God of all grace.

I think it wise to leave them alone and let them be rewarded according to their work. God will try every man's work as to what sort it is, that includes you and me. We are called by grace to reveal Christ and to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. We live by the faith of the Son of God who died and gave His for us. We are crucified to the world and the world is crucified unto us (Gal 6:14). We are called to take up our cross, deny ourself and follow Christ. He came to seek and to save the lost. We are called to teach the commandments of Christ and make disciples of all men. As a priest we are called to pray and to interdede for all men. We are called to be faithful and to esteem others better then ourselves as we condescend to men of low estate. Don't you think that being involved in the work of the ministry is enough without adding unnecessary burdens?

It's easy to say "oh they're just a liberal bunch, no surprise that they do those things" but remember, whether they are liberal or not, Matthew 7:21 says "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Certainly anyone with a heart for God would not want to be found out of His will, but to say let God reward them according to their works, you might as well say "let them perish". Legalism should certainly be dealt with but it obviously doesn't seem to be the biggest problem facing the Church.

In conclusion everyone needs to be led by God in the work He has given them. When they listen, God will reveal it to them, not someone else. As for me it is certainly no burden in exposing what may very well lead to someone perishing. If in doing so it leads them to The Way, The Truth and The Life, then It will certainly be worth it.

 

[pickles]

I dont think it is so much about having the extras to draw people to church that is wrong. I think its about what is reprecented. A false front is what is wrong, also disrespect of Our Lord Jesus. It is alot like the heart of man, you can dress it up all you want but if the heart is bad there is no truth. God bless, pickles

 

[SwordOfFire]

Download and listen to this sermon by Art Katz. It is called "Recognize the Influence."

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=3423